Author Topic: what to do about Gaza?  (Read 4505 times)

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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2014, 09:37:01 PM »
the problem is, if we shut off power it would be a process that takes time and some libs would come to the rescue and mess it all up. It would have to be something that happened within 24hrs I think...

Not if reporters are removed from Gaza. Anyways, all you have to do is flick the switch, and we can offer the liberals to pay for their power, since the Terroristinians aren't, and I have no doubt they won't put their money where their mouth is.

It's wise to have a plan B, so assuming you're right an a couple hair-armed yellers are too much to handle, simply send in the army, the liberals will be already protesting at a safe distance after military positions are shelled, and we go in, load them onto comfortable, fancy trucks, and drop them all off in Jordan, and while Mr. Feglin thinks the Sinai would be best, I personally want it back, and to look for Korah's gold there, and oil is lovely.
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Offline shai77

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2014, 02:43:05 AM »
What do you think the truth is about building the Temple? Will it be built upon peace or upon the blood/body count of Israel's enemies?

Offline muman613

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2014, 02:54:17 AM »
What do you think the truth is about building the Temple? Will it be built upon peace or upon the blood/body count of Israel's enemies?

The Temple will be rebuilt in peace. But no matter what it will be rebuilt. First we must remove the Quaqf from controlling it... When Israel gets a more Jewish right wing leader this should happen quickly.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
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Offline shai77

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2014, 07:00:44 AM »
who controls the quaqf?

Offline Super Mentalita

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2014, 07:42:06 AM »
The Temple will be rebuilt in peace. But no matter what it will be rebuilt. First we must remove the Quaqf from controlling it... When Israel gets a more Jewish right wing leader this should happen quickly.

So after the Temple is rebuilt... What will be the plans for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre? And what will be the plans for the Dome of the Rock, Dome of the Chain, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and other non-Jewish holy buildings?
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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2014, 12:37:52 PM »
who controls the quaqf?

Jordan.

 
What do you think the truth is about building the Temple? Will it be built upon peace or upon the blood/body count of Israel's enemies?

The blood will come when they attack after we build it, and we will crush them again.

So after the Temple is rebuilt... What will be the plans for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre? And what will be the plans for the Dome of the Rock, Dome of the Chain, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and other non-Jewish holy buildings?

Zohar says we won't have to touch a single on of them, and Xtians and muslim will destroy their own buildings after moshiah comes, from the embarrassment it gives them. And we won't ever be able to build anything there or use that land for anything ever again.
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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2014, 12:38:44 PM »
The dome of the rock will be moved. They can have it in Jordan or Saudi Arabia.
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Offline shai77

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2014, 02:52:22 PM »


Zohar says we won't have to touch a single on of them, and Xtians and muslim will destroy their own buildings after moshiah comes, from the embarrassment it gives them. And we won't ever be able to build anything there or use that land for anything ever again.

That is fascinating. I never knew that. When I was in Israel I started thinking about destroying churches, un buildings and places like the Bahai gardens. I never touched any of them for fear of the police and there is a big tourism industry. I'm glad the Zohar says this because I literally went crazy thinking about the problems these things pose in Israel. That would be great. Although after a lot of thought, I stopped disliking Christians visiting churches in Israel for the most part because I understand them in some ways...most of them are just people looking for a better life. That doesn't change the fact that seeing the cross everywhere was bothersome.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2014, 05:37:12 PM »
That is fascinating. I never knew that. When I was in Israel I started thinking about destroying churches, un buildings and places like the Bahai gardens. I never touched any of them for fear of the police and there is a big tourism industry. I'm glad the Zohar says this because I literally went crazy thinking about the problems these things pose in Israel. That would be great. Although after a lot of thought, I stopped disliking Christians visiting churches in Israel for the most part because I understand them in some ways...most of them are just people looking for a better life. That doesn't change the fact that seeing the cross everywhere was bothersome.

Islam is a bigger threat than the Bahai. As far as I know, they aren't converting too many Jews. I don't mind that they visit churches so long as there isn't missionary activity, but ultimately there will be missionary activity if they stay, because of the commandment in the "new" testament to follow all laws except prohibitions on missionary activity, so the churches should be closed off tourist areas and we'll have to support great groups like Jews for Judaism to protect our kids until Moshiah comes.

Since idol worshipers used to come to offer sacrifices to Hashem, they're allowed to enter Israel, but if they are here, anyone practicing idolatry we get punished for, so them staying would be a problem. You can poskim by the opinion that Xtianity is really a permissible form of idolatry to the nations, where they say they connect to Hashem through something else (but punishable for Jews), and then they can go to their churches and we can't read their minds, so them we can live with.

As for muslims, it may or may not be idolatry (I agree with the Rabbis who say it is), but they have a direct commandments to kill Jews and the land of Israel existing as a Jewish state today is against their religion, so no matter what religion they have, they must go or they will try to kill us.

The only problem is that if they accept the Noahide laws, we have no right to kick them out, and many might fake it. 24 hours is a smart idea for a time frame, I realize now, for more than one reason. Thanks for the good idea Shai.
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Offline shai77

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2014, 09:19:23 PM »
Islam is a bigger threat than the Bahai. As far as I know, they aren't converting too many Jews. I don't mind that they visit churches so long as there isn't missionary activity, but ultimately there will be missionary activity if they stay, because of the commandment in the "new" testament to follow all laws except prohibitions on missionary activity, so the churches should be closed off tourist areas and we'll have to support great groups like Jews for Judaism to protect our kids until Moshiah comes.

Since idol worshipers used to come to offer sacrifices to Hashem, they're allowed to enter Israel, but if they are here, anyone practicing idolatry we get punished for, so them staying would be a problem. You can poskim by the opinion that Xtianity is really a permissible form of idolatry to the nations, where they say they connect to Hashem through something else (but punishable for Jews), and then they can go to their churches and we can't read their minds, so them we can live with.

As for muslims, it may or may not be idolatry (I agree with the Rabbis who say it is), but they have a direct commandments to kill Jews and the land of Israel existing as a Jewish state today is against their religion, so no matter what religion they have, they must go or they will try to kill us.

The only problem is that if they accept the Noahide laws, we have no right to kick them out, and many might fake it. 24 hours is a smart idea for a time frame, I realize now, for more than one reason. Thanks for the good idea Shai.

Yeah the Bahai is just sort of innocuous and innocent looking, but it still bothered me and I even longed to burn the Bahai Gardens. Something about it just reminded me of phony pacifism, idolatry masquerading as some innocent type knowledge faith.

As far as Christianity...a lot of Israelis respond positively to anti-Christian hate (with fairly good reason I would say) and would be more than happy to be rid of the cross, despite the economic benefits. There are whole Jesus industries like 'The Jesus Trai' etc...I understand one is not supposed to derive any benefit from idolatry but in this case I am not sure where these Israelis who take an I don't care attitude stand, if they are really too guilty of making a buck from the lucrative tourist trade. They certainly might be opposed to seeing the churches gone...but might feel a relief in some ways.

There are a lot of Israelis who don't care that much and if you even have any thought towards eradicating churches you will be looked at as an extremist. When I was near the Galilee and had thoughts about the whole Jesus story, all the movies I've seen, the walking on water etc...and thought about all of the slaughter that happened, I nearly had a nervous breakdown...There is something creepy about the whole thing at least to me.

Personally I just like the idea of getting rid of any symbols of phony type pacifism in the Holy Land and keeping it real, that the God of Israel is not a pacifist. He may be for peace, but doesn't seem like a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the mosques, I haven't been inside of any of them. It could be nice to replace their speaker music with calls to Jews to pray 3x per day. As bad as the Islamic teaching about killing Jews is, the idea of praying, at least for a little while 3x per day seems like a good thing and I don't mind the dome style architecture (minus the moon and star).


Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2014, 11:22:27 AM »
Yeah the Bahai is just sort of innocuous and innocent looking, but it still bothered me and I even longed to burn the Bahai Gardens. Something about it just reminded me of phony pacifism, idolatry masquerading as some innocent type knowledge faith.

I feel you on that, and yeah, they "agree with all religions" which yeah is basically that. I listened to some stuff from them, and it's especially silly, so leave them this teshuva to make, and it'll bring a few ex-Bahai to Israel for some post-messianic tourism.

As far as Christianity...a lot of Israelis respond positively to anti-Christian hate (with fairly good reason I would say) and would be more than happy to be rid of the cross, despite the economic benefits. There are whole Jesus industries like 'The Jesus Trai' etc...I understand one is not supposed to derive any benefit from idolatry but in this case I am not sure where these Israelis who take an I don't care attitude stand, if they are really too guilty of making a buck from the lucrative tourist trade. They certainly might be opposed to seeing the churches gone...but might feel a relief in some ways.

There are a lot of Israelis who don't care that much and if you even have any thought towards eradicating churches you will be looked at as an extremist. When I was near the Galilee and had thoughts about the whole Jesus story, all the movies I've seen, the walking on water etc...and thought about all of the slaughter that happened, I nearly had a nervous breakdown...There is something creepy about the whole thing at least to me.

I don't think indirect tourism profits count as making profit from idolatry. You should ask your Rabbi and do whatever he says, but I just have a couple Ravs I almost never talk to who are my Rabbis, so I'm going to say that my understanding of the halacha is that the actual church, we wouldn't be allowed to collect rent or taxes from, and really should want it gone, but if the person happens to buy a falafel, it's profiting off the person's hunger, not his desire to serve idols. We'd probably find way older buildings if we let the archaeologists have at their basements, so history is a poor excuse, but even if though there's no reason to keep the churches around, the missionary groups should be the priority to be removed, not a building where goyim by some opinions may be practicing a permissible (to goyim only) for of idolatry.

I've studied just about everything in the NT, and bits of other books, like Martin Luther's (YS"V) books, the Book of Moron, and some of these wacky Jehovah's witnesses' writings, and let me save you a lot of time, and say it's all nonsense, and if you need anything specific disproven or laughed at, you know who to ask.

Personally I just like the idea of getting rid of any symbols of phony type pacifism in the Holy Land and keeping it real, that the God of Israel is not a pacifist. He may be for peace, but doesn't seem like a pacifist by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the mosques, I haven't been inside of any of them. It could be nice to replace their speaker music with calls to Jews to pray 3x per day. As bad as the Islamic teaching about killing Jews is, the idea of praying, at least for a little while 3x per day seems like a good thing and I don't mind the dome style architecture (minus the moon and star).

I'd first see mouth-pieces for it removed.

Muslims don't pray. When you pray, you believe you're talking to Hashem, and even with declarations and repetitions like Shema, you're speaking about how you're going to behave to be G-dly in this world. Muslims, on the other hand, repeat 5 times daily that they think G-d has a made up name and that a murderer is a prophet. That's it. There isn't a concept of spirituality involved with their prayer, it's like a gang creed they repeat, so that they'll stick with pisslam. It doesn't do anything good for them and anyone.

As for their architecture, they didn't invent the dome, and they stopped trying to copy further architectural innovations from the peoples they exterminated after they figured out that one. I'd loose a couple or all domes in the land to see a Beit ha Mikdash.
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Offline shai77

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2014, 09:45:36 PM »
All of the stuff you say sounds pretty much correct LKZ.

The tourism profit is not simply from the food, it is from people driving tour vans around to churches. There is also a lot of chazerai being sold in the shops. It made me feel bad having thoughts of judgement against these Israeli tour guides who were nice guys but probably simply would not take any stance against Christianity in Israel because of the money.

But anyways...

My issue is, even with all religion...even if one were to succeed in accomplishing all of this...what does it matter if one can't relate to most people? To be honest, if you go around Israel with these sentiments, you will not feel like a normal person. The natives are used to this stuff as far as I can see.

The only way I can see any of this happening is a '24 hr' deal where there is no time to talk about it and back down.
Any other way and the moderates would talk us out of it if there was any discussion and forget about talking with foreigners.

Too bad not too many chics I've met in this life care about uprooting idolatry from the land of Israel. Probably not going to win you any popularity points.

Anyways, difficult theological questions...

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2014, 10:00:50 PM »
All of the stuff you say sounds pretty much correct LKZ.

The tourism profit is not simply from the food, it is from people driving tour vans around to churches. There is also a lot of chazerai being sold in the shops. It made me feel bad having thoughts of judgement against these Israeli tour guides who were nice guys but probably simply would not take any stance against Christianity in Israel because of the money.

But anyways...

My issue is, even with all religion...even if one were to succeed in accomplishing all of this...what does it matter if one can't relate to most people? To be honest, if you go around Israel with these sentiments, you will not feel like a normal person. The natives are used to this stuff as far as I can see.

The only way I can see any of this happening is a '24 hr' deal where there is no time to talk about it and back down.
Any other way and the moderates would talk us out of it if there was any discussion and forget about talking with foreigners.

Too bad not too many chics I've met in this life care about uprooting idolatry from the land of Israel. Probably not going to win you any popularity points.

Anyways, difficult theological questions...

There's a mitzvah to never stop hating someone who convinced you to go into idolatry, and I would assume it applies to one trying to do that to your brothers. Don't feel sorry, just because the idolaters have smiles instead of firepits in statues, doesn't mean the damage they do to the soul of Am Yisrael is any less. As for the tour guides though, they're not criminals, their bosses are, and they're bosses aren't the court is, and we can follow that down to the government and end at the filthy hellenized Western culture, but in the end, all of them share in a crime that is hard for any to see, so don't hate them, just inform them the crime that they're part of, and then the rest is up to them, and Hashem won't need those thoughts of judgment for you letting this happen without standing up.

History is unkind to those who rush it. There are basic things we need to start with to save the nation of Israel, and when people see the good that comes from listening to Hashem, they'll start themselves, and everything else will continue to come as the Jewish people is ready. The worst possible thing would be a civil war, and you need citizens to feel part of the process, that way naysayers can be handles by their peers, rather than forcing the government to do something. There is no discussion possible for a. removing the Arabs, b. Making the schools Jewish, starting with at least one real class on Judaism, c. Temple of Hashem, d. illegalizing missionary activity, e. All Jews for idolatry "converts", gay marriage "partners", Sudaneese, and any other non-Jewish immigrants being removed. Thereafter, things will progress with citizen participation, and beyond national suicide, economic suicide, abortion, gay rights, and minority worship, liberals aren't the best at debating, so they'll be sidestepped in short order.

Also, once as missionaries can't pay people's rent in exchange for conversion, and people don't need that, it'll slow the spread by 90%, and illegalizing covert conversions of 7 year olds in parks will take care of 9%, and what remains can be handled easily.
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Offline shai77

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2014, 09:13:50 AM »
How does it change though? It seems like it is going in one direction and not a good direction. I sort of give up because I'm not a righteous enough person to be an advocate for Torah law and I have probably done things as bad as any Israelite. It is hard to say anything to anyone unless you are a perfect tzadik and have really good understanding of all the laws as well as a character that can't be attacked easily.

If you have done anything bad like break shabbos you will find it hard to criticize left wing homos in tel aviv. They can just point the finger back at you.

I guess the best thing to do is pray...

Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2014, 10:51:49 AM »
Make it into a really large parking lot?
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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2014, 03:20:55 PM »
How does it change though? It seems like it is going in one direction and not a good direction. I sort of give up because I'm not a righteous enough person to be an advocate for Torah law and I have probably done things as bad as any Israelite. It is hard to say anything to anyone unless you are a perfect tzadik and have really good understanding of all the laws as well as a character that can't be attacked easily.

If you have done anything bad like break shabbos you will find it hard to criticize left wing homos in tel aviv. They can just point the finger back at you.

I guess the best thing to do is pray...

Moses was a perfect tzadik. He sinned. A tzadik is someone who falls and gets back up. One way or another, it's no excuse to say that because you're not fulfilling one mitzvah of shabbat, you should fulfill the other mitzvot of speaking for the truth and against evil. If clearly you are able to speak out against violating shabbat as you just did, speaking out against them should be easy.
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Offline Yehudayaakov

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2014, 04:07:36 PM »
Invade Gaza station the idf there to stop missile attacks on Jewish cities that are paying for the error of the authority with the Gushkatif desengagement! the first obligation of a country is to protect its citizen which Israel refuses to do!

Offline muman613

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2014, 04:16:34 PM »
How does it change though? It seems like it is going in one direction and not a good direction. I sort of give up because I'm not a righteous enough person to be an advocate for Torah law and I have probably done things as bad as any Israelite. It is hard to say anything to anyone unless you are a perfect tzadik and have really good understanding of all the laws as well as a character that can't be attacked easily.

If you have done anything bad like break shabbos you will find it hard to criticize left wing homos in tel aviv. They can just point the finger back at you.

I guess the best thing to do is pray...

Just because we are not perfect doesn't mean we don't have an obligation to rebuke those who are sinning. If we are not perfect we must do more to make ourselves better, but do not sit back and stop rebuking those who are sinning. The Torah has no 'Let he who has no sin cast the 1st stone' melarky. Nobody has no sin in Judaism ,we all are falling or rising at one time, and we all have the responsibility to rebuke and bring back Jews to observe the Torah.

We should judge others with Mercy, with the benefit of the doubt... But if a person is a rasha (wicked one) we should say something about it.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: what to do about Gaza?
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2014, 04:37:12 PM »
How does it change though? It seems like it is going in one direction and not a good direction. I sort of give up because I'm not a righteous enough person to be an advocate for Torah law and I have probably done things as bad as any Israelite. It is hard to say anything to anyone unless you are a perfect tzadik and have really good understanding of all the laws as well as a character that can't be attacked easily.

If you have done anything bad like break shabbos you will find it hard to criticize left wing homos in tel aviv. They can just point the finger back at you.

I guess the best thing to do is pray...

I realized a bigger point. Clearly, you feel bad about keeping shabbos, and you wish it was easy for you like it is for many Jews. That feeling wouldn't be there if nobody told you how important shabbos was. Therefore, these lefties and homos who may not even realize they're sinning, since the media promotes them like perfect tzadikim for doing these horrible sins, they at least deserve what you have, to know what they're doing is wrong.

There are 2 kinds of people in darkness; those who know they're in it, and those that don't. At least give them that, and it will be good for them to tell you that you should keep shabbat if they do, and maybe help make it easy for you too, considering a homo is calling you unrighteous.
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