Author Topic: Joan Rivers got creamated  (Read 2630 times)

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Joan Rivers got creamated
« on: September 08, 2014, 01:09:27 PM »
can anyone verify that?  Not a good thing.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 01:24:11 PM »
any lectures on why cremation is bad?
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Offline Havok

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 01:25:48 PM »
 A lot of news sites are saying she was cremated
The moral of this story is that no matter how much we try, no matter how much we want it … some stories just don't have a happy ending.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 01:27:30 PM »
Oh and see I was right about her for saying that about her on the ellen degenerate show. Still, she gave more money to the JDL then I can afford, so who knows if she has more merit than I?
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Offline eb22

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 01:50:00 PM »
In last night's ' Ask JTF' program,  Chaim mentioned in answer to my general question about the passing of Joan Rivers,  that a request by Joan Rivers was for her to be cremated.   He wasn't sure whether the cremation happened yet.

Also,  I want to highly commend Chaim for his overall answer to my question about Joan Rivers,  which is well worth listening too.   I'm sure it wasn't easy for Chaim to discuss disturbing aspects of Joan Rivers'  life,  being that she supported JDL back in the 1980's.
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2014, 02:06:30 PM »
In last night's ' Ask JTF' program,  Chaim mentioned in answer to my general question about the passing of Joan Rivers,  that a request by Joan Rivers was for her to be cremated.   He wasn't sure whether the cremation happened yet.

Also,  I want to highly commend Chaim for his overall answer to my question about Joan Rivers,  which is well worth listening too.   I'm sure it wasn't easy for Chaim to discuss disturbing aspects of Joan Rivers'  life,  being that she supported JDL back in the 1980's.

I still have 19 minutes of the show to listen to..don't ruin it for me.   :P
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline eb22

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2014, 02:24:47 PM »
I still have 19 minutes of the show to listen to..don't ruin it for me.   :P

LOL! 

I'm confident that you are going to appreciate those 19 minutes!
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2014, 02:51:57 PM »
LOL! 

I'm confident that you are going to appreciate those 19 minutes!

If only the program was 2.5 hours long I could i listen to most of the show both ways on my commute :)
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline muman613

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2014, 04:24:33 PM »
Poor woman... Was this her wish? Or did her daughter desire this?

My mother said she wanted to be cremated.... I argued with her against it... I am not sure if she changed her view yet... She has been consulting with a Rabbi concerning my step-father who is suffering with late stages of terminal cancer.. I hope they make the correct decision. Baruch Hashem my father was buried according to Jewish halacha... I did make sure he understood the importance of a Jewish burial.

My mother claims she fears being 'claustrophobic' in the box. I told her that her soul will not feel anything claustrophobic but she still has this feeling.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2014, 04:31:03 PM »
Poor woman... Was this her wish? Or did her daughter desire this?

My mother said she wanted to be cremated.... I argued with her against it... I am not sure if she changed her view yet... She has been consulting with a Rabbi concerning my step-father who is suffering with late stages of terminal cancer.. I hope they make the correct decision. Baruch Hashem my father was buried according to Jewish halacha... I did make sure he understood the importance of a Jewish burial.

My mother claims she fears being 'claustrophobic' in the box. I told her that her soul will not feel anything claustrophobic but she still has this feeling.

Do you have lectures on why this is bad? My mom has been saying this, and y'know...
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2014, 04:31:44 PM »
Do you have lectures on why this is bad? My mom has been saying this, and y'know...


I will certainly look into it..
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2014, 05:16:36 PM »
If only the program was 2.5 hours long I could i listen to most of the show both ways on my commute :)

  :o  that's long.

 You can always put JTF and then listen to some Shiurim as well.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2014, 04:04:43 PM »
I heard that she got creamated.  I surprised that she was. 

Offline NoMosqueHere

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2014, 06:05:50 PM »
We all turn to dust anyway.  I buried both of my parents recently and it cost about $7000 each to give them a "jewish" burial.  Had they been cremated, the cost would have been about 1/3.  It's hard to believe such onerous costs on the living are a blessing to anyone except the funeral directors.

Offline muman613

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 06:26:44 PM »
On the topic of Jewish burial @ http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/367836/jewish/Basic-Laws.htm

A Jewish Funeral is a Jew's Right

Receiving a proper Jewish funeral is so significant and important that many Jews have mandated this in their wills, thereby ensuring that they will be buried in the ways of their ancestors. While one is still alive, one should make it clear to loved ones that his or her funeral must adhere to Jewish tradition.

If one did not leave explicit directions, family or caregivers must ensure that the funeral director will provide the services requeste d (i.e. traditional Tahara — washing and purification of the body, a Shomer — a Jewish person to stay with the deceased until burial, Tachrichim — traditional shrouds, a "kosher" casket, and to be cared for by the Chevra Kaddisha).

Some funeral homes (even those with Jewish sounding names) will not offer these services unless specifically requested (and insisted upon) by the family. That said, responsible funeral directors will go out of their way to accommodate the needs of the family once those needs are made known.

Scheduling the Funeral

It is a Biblical commandment to bury one's deceased immediately after passing, and it is forbidden to leave the deceased unburied overnight unless it is for his honor (i.e. to perform a proper Tahara, obtain shrouds, arrange for a burial plot, gather family, etc.).

One may not put off the burial unnecessarily, for our sages state that the soul is in turmoil until the body is properly buried in the ground. Therefore, there needs to be a great sense of urgency to complete the burial as quickly as possible.

If the passing occurred in the morning, one should try to ensure that the deceased is prepared for burial and buried before dusk of the same day. If this is not possible, the burial should take place on the following day.

If the deceased will be buried in another country, or in other circumstances, consult the Chevra Kaddisha or a competent rabbi for guidance.

Flowers, Music, Viewing

It is not the Jewish custom to send or bring flowers to a funeral or cemetery, for flowers are associated with joyous celebrations. For the same reason, music is not played or sung.

It is also forbidden to hold an "open casket" viewing. This is considered extremely disrespectful to the deceased.

When the Mourner is a Kohen

According to the Torah, a Kohen (descendants of Aaron, the high-priest) is not permitted to come in contact with a deceased body. This means that a Kohen cannot be within six feet of where a deceased person may lie; the Kohen may also not be under the same roof as the deceased. For the Kohen, this Biblical prohibition is as serious as the laws forbidding eating unkosher food and violating the Shabbat.

Nevertheless, the Kohen is obligated to attend the funeral of his father, mother, wife (as long as he was permitted to marry her according to Jewish law), son, daughter, brother [including half-brother from his father's side], sister who is not married [including half-sister from the father's side]. In these cases, it becomes a mitzva for him to make himself ritually impure by his attendance.

Forbidden Burial Alternatives

According to Jewish law, a Jew is to be buried as he was born - complete with all his limbs and organs. The human body is considered as sacred in death as it was in life as it contained a G-dly soul. He must be buried in a traditional grave in the ground, so that the body may return to the earth.

Burial in vaults, above-ground mausoleums, crypts, and any other alternatives to a traditional ground burial are strictly forbidden according to Jewish law.

Kabbalah teaches that when a proper kosher burial is not administered, the deceased's soul is stuck in a state of turmoil and cannot find rest until the body's remains are given a proper Jewish burial and allowed to be absorbed into the earth - even after many years!

The Transgression of Cremation

Cremation is explicitly forbidden according to all authentic Jewish opinions and there are never any circumstances where it is permitted. Jewish law considers cremation as pure idol worship, and as "going in the ways of the gentiles." Any instructions to be cremated must be ignored without feelings of guilt or regret.

Aside from the permanent spiritual destruction of the link between the body and soul, if one ever witnessed the action of the "bone-crusher" that is used to pulverize the skeletal remains into the appearance of ashes after the burning of the body, no one of good heart would allow such indignity to come to someone they consider dear.

The prohibition against cremation is so severe that according to Judaism, a person is forbidden to mourn or sit Shiva for one who had himself cremated. This is because in addition to violating Torah law, the person denied G-d's promise of the future Resurrection of the Dead by having his body obliterated.1

A proper Jewish burial affects the final peace of the soul and should never be treated lightly. Should a unique situation arise, one must consult a rabbi who specializes in this area of Jewish law for proper guidance.

The Wishes of the Deceased

If the person left specific instructions concerning his funeral and burial, we are morally obligated to do our utmost to carry them out, providing their fulfillment does not violate Jewish law. If one left instructions for actions that go against Jewish law (i.e. to be embalmed or cremated, the donation of organs for science, burial in a mixed-denomination cemetery, burial above-ground, no Tahara purification, the use of a metal casket, etc.), those caring for the deceased are obligated to ignore those wishes without feelings of guilt or regret. Instead one should substitute a proper Jewish burial through the local Chevra Kaddisha.

Most of the time, such requests are made out of ignorance of proper Jewish law and the severity of these matters. Judaism believes that had the person known the eternal consequences of his request, he would not have made them. In addition, now that he is in the "World of Truth," one should not cause him spiritual "pain" by deviating from the ways of the Torah.

Even if the person knew that what he wished went against Jewish law, we can certainly not assist him in committing a sin. On the contrary, we have an obligation to make it right for his soul, so that at least in death, he is laid to rest as a Jew. Our actions will generate merit that will advocate for him in his final judgment before G-d.

In a case where the requests simply deviate from local custom (i.e. the delivery of a eulogy, to be buried next to a spouse, etc.), one should seek the advice of a competent rabbi or the Chevra Kaddisha.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2014, 06:37:15 PM »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2014, 07:27:15 PM »
It has to do with resurrection of the dead.

Offline Debbie Shafer

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2014, 09:19:17 AM »
Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust...not sure if creamation affects how we enter the Lord's Kingdom after death.

Offline cjd

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2014, 11:26:36 AM »
Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust...not sure if creamation affects how we enter the Lord's Kingdom after death.
:o For Christians the ash to ash dust to dust may work however for Jew's the body needs to remain intact if possible.
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Offline muman613

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2014, 05:47:34 PM »
Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust...not sure if creamation affects how we enter the Lord's Kingdom after death.

It is 100% against Jewish law to be cremated, no discussion about it..

Lisa is correct that it has to do with the resurrection of the dead.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Joan Rivers got creamated
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2014, 05:48:58 PM »
Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust...not sure if creamation affects how we enter the Lord's Kingdom after death.

it does when a Jew purposely chooses to be creamated.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein