Author Topic: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent  (Read 30631 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« on: September 15, 2014, 03:14:00 AM »
I just got a reply from the president of the Broward & Palm Beach Vaad (ORB) & he said that neither the Broward/Palm Beach Vaad nor the Miami-Dade Vaad recognizes his conversions & the only 2 rabbis recognized in the whole state are Rabbi Edward Davis of the Young Israel of Hollywood & Fort Laudedale & Rabbi David Lehrfield of the Young Israel of Greater Miami.
He said any teuda coming from Meza has as much value as a roll of Charmin.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 06:51:43 AM »
What about Meza's own conversion, is it kosher?

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 08:27:46 AM »
What about Meza's own conversion, is it kosher?
Good question

Offline kyel

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 684
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2014, 12:22:57 PM »
He is a fool & I have a feeling he believes in the "New" Testament and may even pray to JC

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153193302043228&set=vb.319582778227&type=2&theater

Messianics are NOT HERETICS!

Messianic Jews are not Idolaters and should be accepted as full Jews if they keep Torah and Halacha..
with Rabbi Asher Meza of TorahJudaism.org

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 12:44:30 PM »
He is a fool & I have a feeling he believes in the "New" Testament and may even pray to JC

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153193302043228&set=vb.319582778227&type=2&theater

Messianics are NOT HERETICS!

Messianic Jews are not Idolaters and should be accepted as full Jews if they keep Torah and Halacha..
with Rabbi Asher Meza of TorahJudaism.org
I am inclined to agree with you/

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 01:49:57 PM »
I told you in the last post about him, I followed the lineage of fake Torah that he preaches, and it's ironically teachings from some Kaballist that Judaism said was not Judaism, and he talks against kaballah. His credibility is about equal to that of whichever popstar it was that picked a Jewish name and did Kaballah, except he makes goyim keep some tough mitzvot.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline kyel

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 684
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 02:05:52 PM »
I told you in the last post about him, I followed the lineage of fake Torah that he preaches, and it's ironically teachings from some Kaballist that Judaism said was not Judaism, and he talks against kaballah. His credibility is about equal to that of whichever popstar it was that picked a Jewish name and did Kaballah, except he makes goyim keep some tough mitzvot.


whats his name?

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 03:19:08 PM »
My name for this cretin is 'Acher Metzora' meaning the Other Leper...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline mord

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25853
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2014, 09:28:13 AM »
 He says he disagrees with the Rambam  :::D :::D
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2014, 03:13:56 PM »
He says he disagrees with the Rambam  :::D :::D

Is that a sin? I know real rabbis who have disagreements with Rambam. What matters is what the disagreement is about.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2014, 10:11:03 PM »
BTW,His legal name is Jorge pronounced Hor Hay

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2014, 10:57:59 PM »
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2014, 03:54:56 AM »
Maybe we could get Chaim or Shlomo to do a video exposing this fraud?

Offline Sveta

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2014, 05:23:28 AM »
Unfortunately, Meza's own conversion may have been valid, as he has been able to get into a study program in Israel Aish in Jerusalem, if it could be proved to have been invalid- that would be a solution to the problem that is "Asher Meza"- he would be done. Also, his legal documents he has posted (his Israeli ID card) has him as George, is there something showing his as Jorge?  It does seem his smicha is FAKE as well. His study at Aish was only for a few months and there was no word if he did complete it or not. The smicha he boldly posts up is blurred out.

As for his mass conversions, I am sorry to say this and I know people will disagree with me. BUT, it's not as simple as saying that they are false conversions. The real issue is that unfortunately- there may be some validity in them bedieved. The danger is that Meza twists Torah and pulls down all the fences and says that everything else is "rabbi worship".

The issue with Meza's mass conversions:

The issue of could they be valid "bedieved"- in the simplest terms- possibly. If we look at Mishneh Torah Issurei Biah Chapter 13 you find that even when conversions were banned in the time of King David and King Solomon, people still did conversions that were performed not by the courts but by ordinary people (so an ordinary Jew who was not a judge) would perform such conversions. Officially, that "convert" was not turned away and not treated as a non-Jew, but not accepted or able to marry a Jew until his or her righteousness was proved. In other words, as we can see bedieved, there might have been some validity to their conversion. Same with Sampson who converted Dalilah- who was technically still not allowed to him for her ulterior motives but was not obligated to divorce her because of some type of bedieved- conversion.

As such, Asher Meza is very much aware that NO ONE in the Jewish community is going to accept his "converts". No one will and the fences and requirements stand in regard to converts following the process that the Batei Din (by 3 Jewish born rabbis) have placed. However, Asher Meza is also aware that bedieved, he is creating a situation where in the simplest form- some type of a quasi type of conversion might have taken place....  (like a Hebrew national conversion- not Kosher in reality but maybe kosher for the most lenient definition).

Asher Meza is VERY much aware of the situation he is creating with his mass conversions, because he knows that if there is any doubt in these people's Jewishness safek, then now that they did some type of conversion- bedieved, he insists the Jewish community "reconvert" them and is hoping to get his "mass converts" a little push and into a more lenient giyur lechumra. (rather than if they had gone to a beis din and started a giyur for a few years). Because now he gave them the safek status. He has actually stated this in his videos and it is his goal. To fill Judaism with his gentiles and give them some mass bedieved type of conversions knowing they will not be accepted, and trying to force the Orthodox Jewish community to accept these people and reconvert with a giyur lechumra so that there will no longer be a question in their status. In other words, Asher Meza knows exactly what he is doing with his "mass conversions" and there is actually something more sinister going on than just "mass converting people". He is hoping to mass convert people in order to force Orthodox Judaism to reconvert them properly and fill Judaism with these gentiles as he wants (because he feels Judaism is too blood oriented) and he is also observing if his "mass converts" get mistreated in order to accuse the Jewish community of not loving the ger and baseless hatred. What he is doing is more than just mass conversions, but actually his attempt to take over.

The issue also is that Meza and all his loonies are ALL converts themselves and they are not supposed to be judges like in a Beis Din. But since they are dealing with non-Jews, I don't know if this would mean they can't be judges over converts or not. If gerim are not supposed to be judges over people becoming gerim at all- then we don't have to worry about any validity in any mass conversion, issues with it being valid, bedieved or not. As we know, a ger tzeddek, righteous as he may be, is not one who would end up in a position of authority.

I think the best way to expose this FRAUD is to talk about his latest video where he states that "Messianic Jews are not heretics" and pretty much condones their work and to expose his FAKE smicha to prove he is not a real RABBI.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/960661/jewish/Issurei-Biah-Chapter-Thirteen.htm
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 05:44:00 AM by IsraeliHeart »

Offline mord

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25853
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2014, 06:27:11 AM »
Is that a sin? I know real rabbis who have disagreements with Rambam. What matters is what the disagreement is about.
Of course but Meza to disagree with Rambam
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2014, 06:40:23 AM »
Unfortunately, Meza's own conversion may have been valid, as he has been able to get into a study program in Israel Aish in Jerusalem, if it could be proved to have been invalid- that would be a solution to the problem that is "Asher Meza"- he would be done. Also, his legal documents he has posted (his Israeli ID card) has him as George, is there something showing his as Jorge?  It does seem his smicha is FAKE as well. His study at Aish was only for a few months and there was no word if he did complete it or not. The smicha he boldly posts up is blurred out.

As for his mass conversions, I am sorry to say this and I know people will disagree with me. BUT, it's not as simple as saying that they are false conversions. The real issue is that unfortunately- there may be some validity in them bedieved. The danger is that Meza twists Torah and pulls down all the fences and says that everything else is "rabbi worship".

The issue with Meza's mass conversions:

The issue of could they be valid "bedieved"- in the simplest terms- possibly. If we look at Mishneh Torah Issurei Biah Chapter 13 you find that even when conversions were banned in the time of King David and King Solomon, people still did conversions that were performed not by the courts but by ordinary people (so an ordinary Jew who was not a judge) would perform such conversions. Officially, that "convert" was not turned away and not treated as a non-Jew, but not accepted or able to marry a Jew until his or her righteousness was proved. In other words, as we can see bedieved, there might have been some validity to their conversion. Same with Sampson who converted Dalilah- who was technically still not allowed to him for her ulterior motives but was not obligated to divorce her because of some type of bedieved- conversion.

As such, Asher Meza is very much aware that NO ONE in the Jewish community is going to accept his "converts". No one will and the fences and requirements stand in regard to converts following the process that the Batei Din (by 3 Jewish born rabbis) have placed. However, Asher Meza is also aware that bedieved, he is creating a situation where in the simplest form- some type of a quasi type of conversion might have taken place....  (like a Hebrew national conversion- not Kosher in reality but maybe kosher for the most lenient definition).

Asher Meza is VERY much aware of the situation he is creating with his mass conversions, because he knows that if there is any doubt in these people's Jewishness safek, then now that they did some type of conversion- bedieved, he insists the Jewish community "reconvert" them and is hoping to get his "mass converts" a little push and into a more lenient giyur lechumra. (rather than if they had gone to a beis din and started a giyur for a few years). Because now he gave them the safek status. He has actually stated this in his videos and it is his goal. To fill Judaism with his gentiles and give them some mass bedieved type of conversions knowing they will not be accepted, and trying to force the Orthodox Jewish community to accept these people and reconvert with a giyur lechumra so that there will no longer be a question in their status. In other words, Asher Meza knows exactly what he is doing with his "mass conversions" and there is actually something more sinister going on than just "mass converting people". He is hoping to mass convert people in order to force Orthodox Judaism to reconvert them properly and fill Judaism with these gentiles as he wants (because he feels Judaism is too blood oriented) and he is also observing if his "mass converts" get mistreated in order to accuse the Jewish community of not loving the ger and baseless hatred. What he is doing is more than just mass conversions, but actually his attempt to take over.

The issue also is that Meza and all his loonies are ALL converts themselves and they are not supposed to be judges like in a Beis Din. But since they are dealing with non-Jews, I don't know if this would mean they can't be judges over converts or not. If gerim are not supposed to be judges over people becoming gerim at all- then we don't have to worry about any validity in any mass conversion, issues with it being valid, bedieved or not. As we know, a ger tzeddek, righteous as he may be, is not one who would end up in a position of authority.

I think the best way to expose this FRAUD is to talk about his latest video where he states that "Messianic Jews are not heretics" and pretty much condones their work and to expose his FAKE smicha to prove he is not a real RABBI.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/960661/jewish/Issurei-Biah-Chapter-Thirteen.htm
His conversions are absolutely invalid & the only 2 rabbis in the whole state that are accept by the 2 local vaads ORB Palm Beach & Broward Counties & ORC Miam-Dade County are Rabbi Edward Davis of the Young Israel of Hollywood & Fort Laudedale & Rabbi David Lehrfield of the Young Israel of Greater Miami.
Accepted by Sephardim,Litvaks,Chabad,Yekkes,other Ashknenazim as well as by the RCA & the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.

Offline Sveta

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2014, 12:43:06 PM »
Any comments on any of the points I made though?  I have consulted with two rabbis on this matter- one Chabad and the other non-Chabad Haredi who have told me that the danger is that there may be some validity bedieved- and that is why Meza must be stopped immediately from mass converting people. I myself was surprised to hear it. I wish we could just say "not valid-end of story".

We can say "without a Beis Din- the judges and making the person study for 2-3 years, it's invalid" we all accept that. But, when we refer to the actual definitions and down to basics of giyur-  the process was actually a lot faster and more lenient than that. In the past, people were able to do giyur in a matter of a few days overseen by regular people and it was seen as valid to a point. Meza is trying to revert Judaism down to the bare minimum definitions and the days of Anshei Knesset Hagedolah past for his "converts" in his attempt to force the Jewish community to "re-convert" them, which is his goal.

I repeat my point- the goal of Asher Meza is not really to just do mass conversions- he knows his mass converts will never be accepted. His goal is to attempt to take over Judaism by bringing in masses of non-Jews and get them into Judaism bedieved and thereby trying to force Judaism to re-convert all these masses (which will not happen) with  giyur lechumra. I am merely stating that saying mass conversions is not enough, we have to look at the deeper issues.

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2014, 01:45:11 PM »
Any comments on any of the points I made though?  I have consulted with two rabbis on this matter- one Chabad and the other non-Chabad Haredi who have told me that the danger is that there may be some validity bedieved- and that is why Meza must be stopped immediately from mass converting people. I myself was surprised to hear it. I wish we could just say "not valid-end of story".

We can say "without a Beis Din- the judges and making the person study for 2-3 years, it's invalid" we all accept that. But, when we refer to the actual definitions and down to basics of giyur-  the process was actually a lot faster and more lenient than that. In the past, people were able to do giyur in a matter of a few days overseen by regular people and it was seen as valid to a point. Meza is trying to revert Judaism down to the bare minimum definitions and the days of Anshei Knesset Hagedolah past for his "converts" in his attempt to force the Jewish community to "re-convert" them, which is his goal.

I repeat my point- the goal of Asher Meza is not really to just do mass conversions- he knows his mass converts will never be accepted. His goal is to attempt to take over Judaism by bringing in masses of non-Jews and get them into Judaism bedieved and thereby trying to force Judaism to re-convert all these masses (which will not happen) with  giyur lechumra. I am merely stating that saying mass conversions is not enough, we have to look at the deeper issues.
Best way to find out would be to contact either Rabbi David  Lehrfield or Rabbi Edward Davis they would be in the best position to say if there is a safek that it may bideved or not & to make all issues on this crystal clear.

Offline geoasher

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2014, 05:38:38 AM »
I am Rabbi Asher Meza..
I would be happy to respond to any disagreement anyone may have with me regarding anything I may of said in a video, but please be cordial lets do them one by one..
And also regarding the claim that I have fake smicha, (not sure where this Motze Shemra began).
And about any conversion being Bedieved.
And the halacha regarding my latest video about heresy and messianics..
Please be respectful and I'm sure that I will be able to satisfy all of you question with sound Halachic explanations.
I'm sure we are all religious here so lets use this as a tool for learning...
If anyone would like to call me my number is 058-627-5403
Hatzlacha Rabba

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2014, 09:34:08 AM »
I am Rabbi Asher Meza..
I would be happy to respond to any disagreement anyone may have with me regarding anything I may of said in a video, but please be cordial lets do them one by one..
And also regarding the claim that I have fake smicha, (not sure where this Motze Shemra began).
And about any conversion being Bedieved.
And the halacha regarding my latest video about heresy and messianics..
Please be respectful and I'm sure that I will be able to satisfy all of you question with sound Halachic explanations.
I'm sure we are all religious here so lets use this as a tool for learning...
If anyone would like to call me my number is 058-627-5403
Hatzlacha Rabba
Answer here why is that neither ORB nor ORC nor RCA nor the Israeli rabbanut recognize your conversions as valid?
You are as phony as a 3 dollar bill!!

Offline geoasher

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2014, 09:46:20 AM »
The Rabbanute and the RCA (ORB is predominatley a Kashrut organization) only recognizes the conversion of about 20 Rabbis in the whole US.

So that means that a conversion performed by 99% of Orthodox Rabbis today would not be accepted by these groups either..
(that does not mean that their conversions are any less kosher from a halachic perspective)

And lets not be rude or get mad please  kol ha-kofeis kfilu avad avodah zarah...

Thank you

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2014, 09:50:03 AM »
The Rabbanute and the RCA (ORB is predominatley a Kashrut organization) only recognizes the conversion of about 20 Rabbis in the whole US.

So that means that a conversion performed by 99% of Orthodox Rabbis today would not be accepted by these groups either..
(that does not mean that their conversions are any less kosher from a halachic perspective)

And lets not be rude or get mad please  kol ha-kofeis kfilu avad avodah zarah...

Thank you
Why is it that Rabbi Weberman says that your conversions are as good as toilet paper?
Also why is that neither the RCA nor the Israeli rabbanut recognize your conversions?
Just answer clearly & succinctly why?

Offline geoasher

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2014, 10:22:15 AM »
I know Rabbi Weberman (Orb) I really doubt such a Ba'al Nefesh as himself would refer to anything done L'shem Shamayim/al pi Halacha as anything slightly related to what you described he said...

But the truth is that if he performed conversions (which he does not) they also would not be recognized.

I think that in regards of people disliking me as a person that perhaps would be in issue of pasul le'edut in their eyes...
However the SA in Yoreh deah states that a conversion is still kosher with only 2 witnesses...

(also I have never charged for conversions and only performed them for individuals who do not live near orthodox communities and are committed in starting their own communities in their part of the world)...

with much blessings brother....

Offline ChabadKahanist

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4987
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2014, 10:28:51 AM »
I know Rabbi Weberman (Orb) I really doubt such a Ba'al Nefesh as himself would refer to anything done L'shem Shamayim/al pi Halacha as anything slightly related to what you described he said...

But the truth is that if he performed conversions (which he does not) they also would not be recognized.

I think that in regards of people disliking me as a person that perhaps would be in issue of pasul le'edut in their eyes...
However the SA in Yoreh deah states that a conversion is still kosher with only 2 witnesses...

(also I have never charged for conversions and only performed them for individuals who do not live near orthodox communities and are committed in starting their own communities in their part of the world)...

with much blessings brother....
Rabbi Weberman is ORC not ORB & his grandson told me this that he doesn't recognize your conversions that the only conversions done in Florida that he recognizes are those by either Rabbi Lehrfield or Rabbi Davis.
How about RCA & Rabbanut why don't they recognize your conversions?
I have no reason to dislike you because I do not know you & I do not live in the US,however it would be nice if you address the issue.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:42:03 AM by ChabadKahanist »

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5462
Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2014, 10:41:34 AM »
I didn't read all the comments, only up to this-

Israeli Heart:

" (like a Hebrew national conversion- not Kosher in reality but maybe kosher for the most lenient definition). "

 This isn't on topic, but since you said it here I have to respond that this is lashon hara (*Correction- Motzi shem Ra) . You claim it is "not Kosher in reality" but according to whom and what knowledge of yours about this? From what I know (R Abadi) says that Hebrew National is Kosher and now has a very good Hasgaha as well under Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag and his sons to whom we may rely upon and not upon a Bdieved situation but Lehathila for those who eat Kosher (putting aside the Sefardi Glatt Beit Yosef).
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.