Author Topic: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent  (Read 30171 times)

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Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2014, 10:44:19 AM »
I didn't read all the comments, only up to this-

Israeli Heart:

" (like a Hebrew national conversion- not Kosher in reality but maybe kosher for the most lenient definition). "

 This isn't on topic, but since you said it here I have to respond that this is lashon hara. You claim it is "not Kosher in reality" but according to whom and what knowledge of yours about this? From what I know (R Abadi) says that Hebrew National is Kosher and now has a very good Hasgaha as well under Rabbi Aryeh Ralbag and his sons to whom we may rely upon and not upon a Bdieved situation but Lehathila for those who eat Kosher (putting aside the Sefardi Glatt Beit Yosef).
Tag you are correct on this & it was also fine under Rabbi Tibor Stern,ZT"L & before him Rabbi Yehuda Altulsky,ZT"L.

Offline geoasher

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2014, 11:05:54 AM »
I would be happy to answer anything you want me to.
I would then ask why does someone who goes by Halacha directly go against what halacha teaches us is a kosher conversion.

In order not to accept something as kosher you first have to have a Halachic reason for doing so?

Please tell me what are those reasons so i can then respond...
Kol Tov

Offline geoasher

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2014, 11:25:00 AM »
Im also in Israel please call me if you have any questions 058-627-5403

Offline Sveta

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2014, 01:08:54 PM »
Tag, I am not accepting the lashon hara accusation. I stand by what I said. No one is going to accept these poor people and to bring them into Judaism in this way, where no one will accept them and try to force the community to "re-convert them" is messed up. However, I am also not interested in arguing with you either. I am not sure if you gave Asher here the heads up on this post, last thing I need is for "Dana Cohen" and the others to come in here too. I don't know how Chaim feels about having this person in this forum.

Anyways, thanks to rabbi ASHER's clarifications about lashon hara I shouldn't be that concerned. Heaven forbid I should go by the Chofetz Chaim and commit rabbi worship.

I never said their "conversions" are 100% invalid, I said there could be some validity bedieved and that the true issue is creating people this way and either force them into our communities.

Btw, if you enjoy triangle K products go right ahead. I know of no one in my community who would put anything triangle K in their mouths. When we talk figuratively about people, to say these "conversions" are like Hebrew national it's merely an example that while it may be kosher to some people under some definitions, it is not kosher to another. But, since you didn't read anything but this part, I can understand that you would take it somewhere else.

Issurei Biah Chapter 13: "Halacha 18: For this reason, our Sages said:46 "Converts are as difficult for the Jewish people to bear as a leprous blemish."

I didn't write it.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 02:29:47 PM by IsraeliHeart »

Offline geoasher

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Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2014, 01:18:37 PM »
Tag, I am not accepting the lashon hara accusation. I stand by what I said. No one is going to accept these poor people and to bring them into Judaism in this way, where no one will accept them and try to force the community to "re-convert them" is messed up.

Anyways, thanks to rabbi ASHER's clarifications about lashon hara I shouldn't be that concerned. Heaven forbid I should go by the Chofetz Chaim and commit rabbi worship.

I never said their "conversions" are 100% invalid, I said there could be some validity bedieved and that the true issue is creating people this way and either force them into our communities.

Btw, if you enjoy triangle K products go right ahead. I know of no one in my community who would put anything triangle K in their mouths.

Issurei Biah Chapter 13: "Halacha 18: For this reason, our Sages said:46 "Converts are as difficult for the Jewish people to bear as a leprous blemish."

I didn't write it.
While I personally don't eat triangle K you can not say it is not kosher.
Rabbi Ralbag is a big talmid chochom & although he relies on kulos that most don't rely on you can not say it is not kosher.
It is kosher just not mehadrin.
If Rabbi Abadi vouches for it is okay.

Offline Sveta

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2014, 01:21:40 PM »
I never said it's not kosher. Are people not reading what I am writing? Or just skimming through it?

I said it is kosher to some but not kosher for others. Some people believe this is a kosher product. Others believe it is barely kosher and others just do not consider it kosher.

To give you an example, I can go to Glatt Mart in LA and will NOT find Hebrew National at all being sold there. But, they are in the kosher section in Ralphs. I consider triange K as "technically kosher" meaning that yes it is kosher but I don't touch and it is not what is done in my community and teachings.

Likewise, these people's "conversions" may be valid by some people but not valid by others.

I hope this clarified everyone's confusion.

Offline Sveta

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2014, 01:30:06 PM »
One thing I would like to discuss, since we're talking about conversion are some interesting quotes that perhaps the posters here can shed more light on.

UPDATE: I have deleted my quotes about gerim as to not insult anyone. Let's just say- there are some not so nice quotes about gerim, that are best kept private.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 01:53:56 PM by IsraeliHeart »

Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2014, 01:31:25 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdMs4T5RmNI
Your logic & halachic sources are 100 % spot on!!!!
Having worked in kashrus I can tell you that a good deal of it is politics & has nothing to do with halacha.

Offline Sveta

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2014, 01:43:11 PM »
Im also in Israel please call me if you have any questions 058-627-5403

And you like being in Israel? Or take still take the Satmar stance on it.


Offline Sveta

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2014, 01:45:47 PM »
Your logic & halachic sources are 100 % spot on!!!!
Having worked in kashrus I can tell you that a good deal of it is politics & has nothing to do with halacha.

I am glad you have found some common ground. I am not a kashrut expert.


Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2014, 01:46:18 PM »
What's going on here!?!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2014, 01:49:54 PM »
I wish I could find his stupid anti Noachide video. ..
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline geoasher

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2014, 01:50:48 PM »
My stance is simliar to that of Yeshaya Liebowitz..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpTyxvEcwIg&list=UUOrRwDkjdICVSwoqEPiHARA

Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2014, 01:52:02 PM »
I am glad you have found some common ground. I am not a kashrut expert.


This is digsusting & not at all true.

Offline geoasher

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2014, 01:52:32 PM »
Please be respectful, Im here i could answer answer any halachic objections you may have to my work...

Offline geoasher

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2014, 01:55:17 PM »
In terms of Zionism I was a settler in Yehuda v'shomrom for 4 years, (Kochav Hashachar)
I also ran kahane.org for 6 years
and womeningreen.org for 8 years..
I spent alot of time in Kfar Tapuach and have done alot of work with Mike Guzofsky and the boys...

Offline Sveta

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2014, 01:59:06 PM »
Yes, well I am not interested in arguing. I was going to post more including the restaurant picture someone posted in Dor Deah Watch but never mind, no point is there- there are some fences that can go down to explain that too. I disagree completely with the mass conversions. I am not going to say they are "invalid" because technically there could be some validity in the simplest terms and definitions. Considering that Issueri Biah speaks about ordinary people performing giyur when they were banned during the time of King David and King Solomon- however the gerim were not turned away but were rather looked upon with suspicion.

I am not sure if your goal is to flood Judaism with these people in the attempt to force the rest of us to "re-convert" them. I just disagree with what you do. I wish the best for those people and hope they are not too hurt with the rejection they face and will face in the coming years.

Offline Sveta

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2014, 02:01:03 PM »
In terms of Zionism I was a settler in Yehuda v'shomrom for 4 years, (Kochav Hashachar)
I also ran kahane.org for 6 years
and womeningreen.org for 8 years..
I spent alot of time in Kfar Tapuach and have done alot of work with Mike Guzofsky and the boys...
And yet... that video.

WOW, really? Kahane.org? What years was that? I know several people involved in Kahane.org, several on my contacts list. Give me the dates and I'll go ask them.
I also am close with one of the former administrators from there who will surely verify.

Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2014, 02:09:28 PM »
Yes, well I am not interested in arguing. I was going to post more including the restaurant picture someone posted in Dor Deah Watch but never mind, no point is there- there are some fences that can go down to explain that too. I disagree completely with the mass conversions. I am not going to say they are "invalid" because technically there could be some validity in the simplest terms and definitions. Considering that Issueri Biah speaks about ordinary people performing giyur when they were banned during the time of King David and King Solomon- however the gerim were not turned away but were rather looked upon with suspicion.

I am not sure if your goal is to floor Judaism with these people in the attempt to force the rest of us to "re-convert" them. I just disagree with what you do. I wish the best for those people and hope they are not too hurt with the rejection they face and will face in the coming years.
I am with you on this & how does he explain the picture of him eating in Bob Evans a treif restaurant?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2014, 02:12:29 PM »
Is this another Deform "rabbi"?

Offline geoasher

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2014, 02:12:36 PM »
Ask Ezra Stein

Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2014, 02:13:24 PM »

Offline geoasher

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2014, 02:21:25 PM »
Hi was in charge of Kahane.org and part of the JDL in Kfar Tapauch along with Mike....

Offline ChabadKahanist

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Re: Jorge "Asher" Meza's conversions are fraudulent
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2014, 02:24:01 PM »
Hi was in charge of Kahane.org and part of the JDL in Kfar Tapauch along with Mike....
Mike I know very well Ezra Stein I am unfamiliar with & I have been involved with JDL,Kach Kahane Chai,etc since 1971.