Author Topic: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.  (Read 4623 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« on: September 15, 2014, 08:41:09 PM »
http://www.religionnews.com/2014/06/13/pope-francis-inside-every-christian-jew/

VATICAN CITY (RNS) Underscoring the close ties between Christianity and Judaism and calling Holocaust denial “madness,” Pope Francis told an interviewer that “inside every Christian is a Jew.”

 Show caption

Pope Francis recently decried anti-Semitism as “madness” and made waves with his controversial “inside every Christian is a Jew” statement.Creative Commons image by the Catholic Church (England and Wales)

 This image is available for Web and printpublication. For questions, contact Sally Morrow.

In a wide-ranging interview published Friday (June 13) in Spain’s La Vanguardia newspaper, the pope said dialogue between the two faiths can sometimes be a “hot potato.”

“I believe that interreligious dialogue must investigate the Jewish roots of Christianity and the Christian flowering of Judaism,” Francis said. “I understand it is a challenge, a hot potato, but it is possible to live as brothers.”

Francis’ statement seems to go further than his predecessor, St. John Paul II, who made headlines in 1986 as the first pope to visit Rome’s main synagogue and declared Jews to be the “elder brothers” of the Christian faith.

“Every day, I pray with the Psalms of David. My prayer is Jewish, then I have the Eucharist, which is Christian,” the Argentine pontiff added.

The pope also took the opportunity to criticize Holocaust denial as “madness” while defending the record of Pope Pius XII, who led the Roman Catholic Church during World War II.

Francis will soon have to decide whether to advance the sainthood cause for the controversial wartime pope, who is accused of failing to speak out publicly against the mass murder of Jews. For years, Jewish leaders and Nazi hunters have demanded the Vatican open up its secret wartime files.

Francis said he was concerned about “everything which has been thrown at poor Pius XII,” while stressing that he sheltered Jews in the convents of Rome and other Italian cities, as well as the popes’ summer residence in Castel Gadolfo.

“I do not mean to say that Pius XII did not make mistakes — I make many mistakes myself — but his role must be read in the context of the time,” Pope Francis said.

Francis added that he breaks out in an “existential rash” when he hears people speak against Pius and the church’s wartime record while ignoring inaction by the Allies fighting against Nazi Germany.

“Did you know that they knew perfectly well the rail network used by the Nazis to take the Jews to the concentration camps? They had photographs,” he said. “But they did not bomb these rail lines. Why? It would be nice if we spoke a little bit about everything.”

During Friday’s interview with the Barcelona daily, Francis was also asked about his own security, saying he refused to travel in a bulletproof “sardine can” vehicle because he wants to mingle with ordinary people.

“It is true that anything can happen, but let’s face it, at my age I have nothing to lose,” the 77-year-old pontiff said.

The former archbishop of Buenos Aires was also asked how he would like to be remembered as a pope.

“I have not thought about that,” Francis said. “But I like it when you remember someone and say ‘He was a good guy, he did what he could, and he was not that bad.’ I would be happy with that.”
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 09:29:23 PM »
That is his opinion, not Halacha...

According to Judaism every Christian is NOT a Jew... They could be if they wanted to, but I doubt they would...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 09:33:17 PM »
Im sorry if I don't find this comment 'warm and fuzzy'... I find it somewhat offensive.

Nice that he wants forgiveness for the churches abysmal response to Nazi Germany... Maybe he can reign in his antisemitic bishops...

The Catholic church is responsible for over 1200 years of oppression of Jews.... Now he wants us to forget that... Very unlikely.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2014, 09:38:50 PM »
Maybe the pope needs to understand just how much Jew hatred was spawned by the church..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 09:39:25 PM »
Does this mean he'll be less supportive of the terrorists in Fraudestine?
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 09:40:23 PM »
Does this mean he'll be less supportive of the terrorists in Fraudestine?

Doubt it... I suspect he is doing this in order to ease the 'beatification' of Pious XII...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 09:44:47 PM »
What is the "Christian flowering of Judaism" supposed to mean?

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 09:46:40 PM »
What is the "Christian flowering of Judaism" supposed to mean?

I suspect it comes from their belief that they are a branch of the Abrahamic tree...

"In [the days that are] coming, Yaacov will give root, Israel will sprout and blossom" (Isaiah 27:6).

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2014, 09:53:10 PM »
My point wasn't to say Christians are Jews. .... I have never been for this Pope, or any Pope for that matter. I just think this was a good thing to say. It is good for Christians to know that their religion came from Judaism, and that as a Christian you are connected to the Jewish people, the Jew's are Christians big brother, and the land of Israel is holy.
This is a step in the right direction.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2014, 09:53:53 PM »
What is the "Christian flowering of Judaism" supposed to mean?
I didn't get that either.
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5019
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2014, 09:57:45 PM »
I always hated Catholics growing up... until I got to know some...
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2014, 10:03:52 PM »
How many licks of a Catholic does it take till you hit the Jew inside?



How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?
http://www.tootsie.com/faqs
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2014, 10:39:24 PM »
 :::D

In every Christian is a Jew and Jews can't have Israel since it belongs to the Arabs.  And Jews are not the real Jews anyway. It's the Christians who are the real Jews.

This is what the pope really thinks.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline IsraelForever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1834
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2014, 01:57:53 AM »
I think it's great when this pope -- or any pope -- says that anti-Semitism is madness.  His followers need to hear this from him.  It can't hurt us that he says this. 

Offline Manch

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1869
  • Kahane Tzadak!
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2014, 06:04:56 PM »
That is his opinion, not Halacha...

According to Judaism every Christian is NOT a Jew... They could be if they wanted to, but I doubt they would...
He didn't say that. He said, as I understand, that inside of every Christian there's a bit of Jew. If that's how he feels, that is a valid position, I believe.
Hayot Araviot Masrihot

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2014, 06:05:57 PM »
He didn't say that. He said, as I understand, that inside of every Christian there's a bit of Jew. If that's how he feels, that is a valid position, I believe.

I understand that is how he feels... But how is it so?

Jews have obligations which non-Jews don't have... Do they keep the commandments which Jews are commanded to? What is it about them (aside from the fact that their 'savior' was a Jew) that gives them this 'bit of a Jew'?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline IsraelForever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1834
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2014, 07:23:49 PM »
I thought that the Pope was speaking metaphorically when he said that inside every Christian is a Jew.  Since so many Christians hate Jews, it didn't bother me that he said that.  Let them think it if they want.  Let them think that inside every Christian is a little Rabbi for all I care.  But I understood the Pope to mean that since Jesus was Jewish (according to them) and since Jesus was the son of G-d (according to them) then, metaphorically, there would be some Jewishness inside of them.  Of course, it's all baloney and nonsense.  But if it will stop some anti-Semitism in the world, then I'm all for him saying it.  Am I wrong here?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2014, 07:47:05 PM »
Inside BerGOGlio is the devil.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2014, 07:48:51 PM »
I thought that the Pope was speaking metaphorically when he said that inside every Christian is a Jew.  Since so many Christians hate Jews, it didn't bother me that he said that.  Let them think it if they want.  Let them think that inside every Christian is a little Rabbi for all I care.  But I understood the Pope to mean that since Jesus was Jewish (according to them) and since Jesus was the son of G-d (according to them) then, metaphorically, there would be some Jewishness inside of them.  Of course, it's all baloney and nonsense.  But if it will stop some anti-Semitism in the world, then I'm all for him saying it.  Am I wrong here?

I don't think you are wrong. If this does reduce antisemitism then it is worthwhile. But after watching several videos about the history of Jew hatred, I find it hard to believe such a simple saying will influence non-Jews to change their thoughts about the Jewish people.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Online angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10545
  • ☭=卐=☮
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2014, 08:52:34 PM »
That is his opinion, not Halacha...

According to Judaism every Christian is NOT a Jew... They could be if they wanted to, but I doubt they would...


he was attempting to say something nice. give him credit. of course 99% of the time he's a total @$$h013.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2014, 10:09:57 PM »

he was attempting to say something nice. give him credit. of course 99% of the time he's a total @$$h013.

I suppose it was meant nice... But it smacks of a little 'replacement' theology.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2014, 05:59:23 AM »
I thought that the Pope was speaking metaphorically when he said that inside every Christian is a Jew.  Since so many Christians hate Jews, it didn't bother me that he said that.  Let them think it if they want.  Let them think that inside every Christian is a little Rabbi for all I care.  But I understood the Pope to mean that since Jesus was Jewish (according to them) and since Jesus was the son of G-d (according to them) then, metaphorically, there would be some Jewishness inside of them.  Of course, it's all baloney and nonsense.  But if it will stop some anti-Semitism in the world, then I'm all for him saying it.  Am I wrong here?

It won't stop anti semitism.

It will bring on more anti Catholicism

Or more likely

Replacement theism
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Manch

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1869
  • Kahane Tzadak!
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2014, 02:41:15 PM »
I understand that is how he feels... But how is it so?

Jews have obligations which non-Jews don't have... Do they keep the commandments which Jews are commanded to? What is it about them (aside from the fact that their 'savior' was a Jew) that gives them this 'bit of a Jew'?
As he said, same prayers, believe in one G-d, one theological foundation, 10 commandments. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, therefore it theologically draws from it. Therefore, the hatred against the roots of your own religion is illogical. That, I think, what he implied.
Hayot Araviot Masrihot

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2014, 02:49:12 PM »
As he said, same prayers, believe in one G-d, one theological foundation, 10 commandments. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, therefore it theologically draws from it. Therefore, the hatred against the roots of your own religion is illogical. That, I think, what he implied.

I do believe that there are many differences between Judaism and Christianity. From a Jewish perspective (religious) it seems odd to say what he said. I will not go into the known differences here because when I do I usually get people thinking I am disparaging their beliefs.



You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline dimitry

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Pope Francis: ‘Inside every Christian is a Jew’.
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2014, 04:08:18 PM »
I suppose it was meant nice... But it smacks of a little 'replacement' theology.
It's more like he is just moving towards position more close to protestantism.