Author Topic: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof  (Read 4901 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline yahtruth

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« on: October 06, 2014, 07:48:33 AM »
Rosh Chodesh was 9/26/2014 at 6:37 PM Jerusalem time, so Yom Kippur, the tenth day of the seventh month starts tonight, 10/6/2014 at sunset.

And it must be observed within the land of Israel:

Deuteronomy 12:1, 5-14
These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to DO IN THE LAND, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, ALL the days that ye live upon the earth. But unto THE PLACE which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name THERE, even unto HIS HABITATION shall ye seek, and THITHER thou shalt COME: And THITHER ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And THERE ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee. Ye shall NOT do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his OWN eyes. For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to THE INHERITANCE, which the LORD your God giveth you. But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell IN THE LAND which the LORD your God giveth you to INHERIT, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety; then THERE shall be A PLACE which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell THERE; THITHER shall ye bring ALL that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and ALL your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you. Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest: But in THE PLACE which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, THERE thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and THERE thou shalt DO ALL THAT I COMMAND THEE.

Will you obey Moses or traditional errors?

Offline edu

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2014, 03:24:38 PM »
Quote from the heretic yahtruth
Quote
Rosh Chodesh was 9/26/2014 at 6:37 PM Jerusalem time, so Yom Kippur, the tenth day of the seventh month starts tonight, 10/6/2014 at sunset.

Of course you heretic have no authority to declare when Rosh Chodesh is.
But let's put that aside for now.
According to the heretic 9/26 after sundown is day 1 9/27 after sundown is day 2 9/28 is day 3 9/29 is day 4 9/30 is day 5 10/1 is day 6  10/2 is day 7  10/3 is day 8 10/4 is day 9 10/5 at sunset  is day 10

So unless you have a heretical Bible that identifies Yom Kippur as day 11 and not day 10 as every normal Bible says, your own figures prove you are wrong.
But to repeat what I said at the beginning in any case you do not have the authority to determine when Rosh Chodesh begins.

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2014, 03:57:42 PM »
If he says "there's corn in the bible" we know who he is

The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2014, 03:59:41 PM »
Lol I think the first guy pointing up thinks the thing on his forearm is tefillin. I bet it's the tefillin you wear on the 11th day of Yom Kippur  :::D
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline yahtruth

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2014, 04:35:22 PM »
Ah em... Excuse me, but with your logic there are 8 days in a week. The rest of us know that there are only seven days in a week:

9/26/14 at 6:37 PM to 10/3/2014 at 6:37 PM is exactly one week, or 7 days.
Add exactly another three days to that figure and you'll get 10/6/2014 at 6:37 PM.
7+3=10.

Truthfully, two or three concurring and verified witnesses can determine the time of Rosh Chodesh by viewing and agreeing concerning the date and time of the first visible light of the new crescent moon from the Temple mount in Jerusalem.

Lest you mischaracterize and slander me or anyone else as a heretic, have your facts straight.

Offline Sveta

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2014, 10:44:55 PM »
To make such a suggestion is to say that all of our prophets, sages, Torah scholars of the past thousand and hundreds of years are clueless about the calendar and yontif and they just don't know anything. Who would dare say he knows better than all of them?

Offline edu

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2014, 02:18:32 PM »
Quote from the heretic Yahtruth
Quote
Ah em... Excuse me, but with your logic there are 8 days in a week. The rest of us know that there are only seven days in a week:

9/26/14 at 6:37 PM to 10/3/2014 at 6:37 PM is exactly one week, or 7 days.
Add exactly another three days to that figure and you'll get 10/6/2014 at 6:37 PM.
7+3=10.
9/26 secular year 2014 was on a Friday 10/3 in the secular year of 2014 was also on a Friday.
Each week has 7 distinct days. When you return to the same day of the week that you started on in the following week, you are on the 8th day.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2014, 05:33:06 PM »
More Heresy from a Karaite... That we put up with this is ridiculous. Karaites are heretics and they are not Jews. We have no need to be  concerned with Lashon Hara about these apikorsim.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2014, 10:02:53 PM »
Karaites:
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline yahtruth

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2014, 10:46:47 PM »
IsraeliHeart
To make such a suggestion is to say that all of our prophets, sages, Torah scholars of the past thousand and hundreds of years are clueless about the calendar and yontif and they just don't know anything. Who would dare say he knows better than all of them?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your inquiry IsraeliHeart. I hope this helps to explain the differences.

In the Middle Ages the Karaites ardently maintained that the Biblical year begins with the ripeness of the Barley crop in Israel (called in the Bible "Abib"). The Rabbinic calendar had originally followed this practice but around the 9th century CE they adopted a 19 year cycle of intercalation (leap years) which approximates the Abib but which is far from accurate. This often caused a difference of a month between the Karaite and Rabbanite calendars. The Abib was a central issue to the Karaites and to this day the Karaite marriage contract includes a vow that the marrying couple will celebrate the holidays "according to the visibility of the moon and the appearance of the Abib in the land of Israel."

However, already in the Middle Ages there were Karaite communities who slowly adopted the Rabbinic 19 year cycle. At first it was only Karaites in the distant lands of the Dispersion who followed the Rabbinic 19 year cycle. They claimed that it was difficult to receive reports of the state of the Barley crop in Israel from so far away. As late as the 15th century though the Karaites of the Holy Land continued to follow the Abib even though their compatriots in the Dispersion accepted the 19 year Rabbinic cycle. The 15th century Karaite Hacham Elijah Baschyatchi writes:

"Having explained that the beginning of the year according to the law of our Torah is according to the Abib which is found is the Land of Israel in the conditions which we have mentioned, because of our great sins we have been distanced from the Holy Land and we do not have the capability of finding the Abib, we have been forced to follow the Calculation of Intercalation like that done by our brothers the Rabbanites..."

"And the Hacham R' Aharon [ben Elijah] author of the book 'Etz Haim' also said** that in the 269th cycle we heard that in the 4th year of the cycle [i.e. 1354/1355 C.E.] what was for us the month of Elul was for the people of the Land of Israel the month of Tishrei...' ... And this has also happened in our [Baschyatchi's] times in the year 5240 [i.e. 1479/1480 C.E.], the 15th year of the cycle, people went from our community in the Holy City [i.e. Jerusalem] and said that the 14th year of the 276 cycle, which we are in, which was for us an intercalated year [i.e. 13 months] was for them a regular year [i.e. 12 months]. And our faith should not be weakened by this because they [in Israel] go after the observable and we [in the Diaspora] go after approximation... The end of the matter is, all maintain the legal decision that the inhabitants of the Land of Israel should go according to the Abib in the Land of Israel and those far away should go after the calculation of intercalation of leap years and simple years."

(From Aderet Eliyahu by Elijah Baschyatchi, Israel 1966, p.39a (written in the 15th century) [translation from the Hebrew by Nehemia Gordon, square brackets added by translator for clarity])

As can be seen, in Baschyatchi's's own time the Karaites of the Dispersion followed the Rabbinic 19 year cycle while those of Israel followed the actual appearance of the Abib and at times this caused a difference of one month in the calendar.

The Karaites of the Dispersion followed the Rabbinic 19 year cycle while those of Israel followed the actual appearance of the Abib and at times this caused a difference of one month in the calendar. Nevertheless, by the 19th century the Karaites universally followed the 19 year Rabbinic cycle both in the Diaspora and in Israel.

The 19th century Karaite Hacham Shlomoh ben Afedah Hacohen wrote an abridged paraphrase of Elijah Baschyatchi's Aderet Eliyahu. In his abridgement, Shlomoh Afedah paraphrases the above quoted passage but adds the following words:

"And for some time now the quest for the Abib has been abandoned even in the Land of Israel and they [the inhabitants of Israel] intercalate years using the above mentioned system [i.e. the 19 year Rabbinic cycle] like we do outside of Israel, [this is] against the legal decision of the Rav [i.e. Baschyatchi] and the Hachamim [mentioned in the above quoted passage of Aderet Eliyahu] perhaps in order to unite with all the communities and so that we will not have a disagreement between them and us in fixing the year."—Excerpt from "Gefen Ha'Aderet", Shlomoh ben Afedah
Hacohen, Israel 1987, pp.22-23 (written in 1860)

[translation from the Hebrew by Nehemia Gordon, square brackets added by translator for clarity.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excerpt from Hebrew calendar (wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

From very early times, the Mesopotamian lunisolar calendar was in wide use by the countries of the western Asia region. The structure, which was also used by the Israelites, was based on lunar months with the intercalation of an additional month to bring the cycle closer to the solar cycle.[15]

Num 10:10 stresses the importance in Israelite religious observance of the new month (Hebrew: ראש חודש, Rosh Chodesh, "beginning of the month"): "... in your new moons, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt-offerings..." Similarly in Num 28:11. "The beginning of the month" meant the appearance of a new moon.

According to the Mishnah and Tosefta, in the Maccabean, Herodian, and Mishnaic periods, new months were determined by the sighting of a new crescent, with two eyewitnesses required to testify to the Sanhedrin to having seen the new lunar crescent at sunset.[16] The practice in the time of Gamaliel II (c. 100 CE) was for witnesses to select the appearance of the moon from a collection of drawings that depicted the crescent in a variety of orientations, only a few of which could be valid in any given month.[17] These observations were compared against calculations.[18]

At first the beginning of each Jewish month was signaled to the communities of Israel and beyond by fires lit on mountaintops, but after the Samaritans began to light false fires, messengers were sent.[19] The inability of the messengers to reach communities outside Israel before mid-month High Holy Days (Succot and Passover) led outlying communities to celebrate scriptural festivals for two days rather than one, observing the second feast-day of the Jewish diaspora because of uncertainty of whether the previous month ended after 29 or 30 days.[20]

References
15. Ancient Israel: Its Life and Institutions (1961) by Roland De Vaux, John McHugh, Publisher: McGraw–Hill, ISBN 978-0-8028-4278-7, p.179
16. M. Rosh Hashanah 1.7
17. M. Rosh Hashanah 2.6–8
18. b. Rosh Hashanah 20b: "This is what Abba the father of R. Simlai meant: 'We calculate the new moon's birth. If it is born before midday, then certainly it will have been seen shortly before sunset. If it was not born before midday, certainly it will not have been seen shortly before sunset.' What is the practical value of this remark? R. Ashi said: Confuting the witnesses." I. Epstein, Ed., The Babylonian Talmud Seder Mo'ed, Soncino Press, London, 1938, p. 85.
19. M. Rosh Hashanah 2.2
20. b. Betzah 4b

Today anyone can go online and obtain accurate information regarding Rosh Chodesh in Jerusalem from Karaite websites.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2014, 01:59:29 AM »
We know how the Jewish calendar is observed. That is clear... But we do not have a Sanhedrin at this time and we use a calculation which is correct according to the phase of the moon.

According to the Jewish belief the following is true.... Regardless of what karaites do. We know that they are heretics and deny the oral tradition. So I do not accept the explanation you provided.


http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/55194/jewish/Introduction.htm

Since Biblical times, various astronomical phenomena have been used to establish uniquely Jewish definitions for the day and its hours, the months and the year.

The length of days and hours vary by the season, controlled by the times of sunset, nightfall, dawn and sunrise. The months and years of the Jewish calendar are established by the cycles of the moon and the sun.

Though the months follow the lunar cycle, the lunar months must always align themselves with the seasons of the year, which are governed by the sun. Thus, the Jewish calendar is "Luni-Solar." The discrepancy between the solar year (365 days) and the lunar year (354 days) was resolved by every so often adding a thirteenth month to the year, to form a "leap year."

In the early times of our history, the High Court (Sanhedrin) in Jerusalem was assigned the tasks of determining the beginning of each month and the balancing of the solar with the lunar years. They relied on direct observation of the New Moon, astronomical data, and other considerations.

In the fourth century after the Temple's destruction, however, when oppression and persecution threatened the continued existence of the Court, a fixed calendar was instituted -- based on the Sanhedrin's closely guarded secrets of calendric calculation. This is the permanent calendar according to which the New Moons and festivals are calculated and celebrated today by Jews all over the world.

Like the original system of observation, it is based on the Luni-Solar principle. It also applies certain rules by which complex astronomical calculations are combined with the religious requirements into an amazingly precise system.

The following pages will provide a brief digest of the factors which control the determination of the Jewish hour, day, month and year.

.
.
.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526874/jewish/The-Jewish-Month.htm

The Lunar Cycle

The Jewish calendar is based on lunar cycles.1 Towards the beginning of the moon’s cycle, it appears as a thin crescent. That is the signal for a new Jewish month. The moon grows until it is full, the middle of the month, and then it begins to wane until it cannot be seen. It remains invisible for approximately two days2—and then the thin crescent reappears, and the cycle begins again.

The entire cycle takes approximately 29½ days.3 Since a month needs to consist of complete days, a month is sometimes twenty-nine days long (such a month is known as chaser, “missing”), and sometimes thirty (malei, “full”).

Knowing exactly when the month begins has always been important in Jewish practice, because the Torah schedules the Jewish festivals according to the days of the month.

The first day of the month, as well as the thirtieth day of a malei month, is called Rosh Chodesh, the “Head of the Month,” and has semi-festive status. See Why is Rosh Chodesh sometimes one day and sometimes two?

The Jewish Months

Nissan is the first month on the Jewish calendar. Before the Jews left Egypt, on the first day of the month of Nissan, G‑d told Moses and Aaron: “This chodesh (new moon, or month) shall be to you the head of months.”4 Thus the peculiarity of the Jewish calendar: the year begins on Rosh Hashanah, the first day of the month of Tishrei (the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve), but Tishrei is not the first month. Rosh Hashanah is actually referred to in the Torah as “the first day of the seventh month.”5

.
.
.

Sanctifying the Month

“The L‑rd spoke to Moses and to Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, ‘This chodesh shall be to you the head of months.’” (Exodus 12:1–2)

From the wording of this verse, “shall be to you,” the sages deduced that the responsibility of pinpointing and consecrating the chodesh, the crescent new moon, was entrusted to the leaders of our nation, the Sanhedrin, the rabbinical supreme court of every generation.

Originally, there was no fixed calendar. There was no way to determine in advance the exact day of a coming holiday or bar mitzvah, because there was no way to determine in advance when the month would begin. Each month anew, the Sanhedrin would determine whether the month would be 29 or 30 days long—depending on when the following month’s new moon was first sighted—and would sanctify the new month.

Nowadays

In the 4th century CE, the sage Hillel II foresaw the disbandment of the Sanhedrin, and understood that we would no longer be able to follow a Sanhedrin-based calendar. So Hillel and his rabbinical court established the perpetual calendar which is followed today.

According to this calendar, every month of the year, except for three, has a set number of days:

Nissan—30
Iyar—29
Sivan—30
Tamuz—29
Menachem Av—30
Elul—29
Tishrei—30
Mar Cheshvan—29 or 30
Kislev—29 or 30
Tevet—29
Shevat—30
Adar—29 (in leap years, Adar I has 30 days)

Regarding the variable months of Kislev and Cheshvan, there are three options: 1) Both can be 29 days (the year is chaser), 2) both are 30 (the year is malei), or 3) Cheshvan is 29 and Kislev is 30 (the year is k’sidran, meaning these two months follow the alternating pattern of the rest of the months). Hillel also established the rules that are used to determine whether a year is chaser, malei, or k’sidran.

The rules of the perpetual calendar also ensure that the first day of Rosh Hashanah will never take place on Sunday, Wednesday or Friday.6

When Hillel established the perpetual calendar, he sanctified every Rosh Chodesh until Moshiach will come and reestablish the Sanhedrin.

The Sanhedrin Sanctification

The following is a brief description of the procedure the Sanhedrin followed in days of yore to determine the date of the onset of a new month.

On the 30th day of every month,7 the Sanhedrin would “open for business” in a large courtyard in Jerusalem called Beit Ya’azek. Witnesses who claimed to have seen the new moon on the previous night would come to give their testimony and be cross-examined.8

The members of the Sanhedrin were well schooled in astronomy. They knew exactly when the new moon would have appeared, and where it would have been visible. Nevertheless, the sanctification of the moon depends on the crescent new moon actually being seen by two witnesses. The word “this” (in the above-quoted verse, “This month shall be to you . . .”) implies something that is actually seen.

The rabbis of the Sanhedrin would question the witnesses in the order of their arrival. They knew what the proper responses to their questions ought to be, and were thus quickly able to identify fraudulent claims. Starting with the elder of each pair, they would ask:9 “Tell us how you saw the moon:

In which direction was it in relation to the sun?10
Was it to the north or south?
How high in the sky did the moon appear to be?
In which direction were the crescent’s tips facing?
How wide was it?”

After they had finished questioning the first witness, they would bring in his partner and question him in similar fashion. If the two accounts corroborated, the evidence was accepted.11

That day, the thirtieth day, was now declared Rosh Chodesh of the new month. The head of the Sanhedrin would proclaim: “Mekudash!” (“Sanctified!”) and everyone would respond, “Mekudash! Mekudash!” The previous month was now retroactively determined to have had only twenty-nine days.

Publicizing the New Month

The following night (the second night of the month), huge bonfires were lit on designated mountaintops. Lookouts stationed on other mountaintops would see that a fire had been lit, and would light their own fires. This chain of communication led all the way to Babylonia, so that even very distant communities knew that the day beforehand had been declared Rosh Chodesh.

Eventually, the Sadducees12 started lighting fires on the wrong days in order to manipulate the calendar. To prevent this confusion, the fire-on-mountaintop method of communication was discontinued, and instead messengers were dispatched to Babylonia and all other far-flung Jewish settlements. This took a lot longer, a delay which had (and still has) halachic implications with regards to observance of the second day of holidays in the Diaspora. (See Why are holidays celebrated an extra day in the Diaspora?)

The 30-Day Month

If no witnesses came on the thirtieth day—either because the moon had not been “reborn” yet, or because it was not visible—then the next day, the thirty-first day, was automatically declared Rosh Chodesh, retroactively rendering the previous month a malei month.13

Members of the Sanhedrin would go to a highly visible location, where they would partake in a celebratory meal to signify the new month. No fires were lit that night. The new month is always either on the 30th or 31st day; if they hadn’t lit fires the night before, it was understood that the new month started on the 31st day.


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2014, 02:03:51 AM »
yatruther,

Why don't you ask the administrators at JTF to create for you a 'Karaite' section of the forum. That way we can be spared from this meshigas.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 9732
  • 112
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2014, 08:59:16 PM »
yatruther,

Why don't you ask the administrators at JTF to create for you a 'Karaite' section of the forum. That way we can be spared from this meshigas.



Is he even Kahanist? He's here to spread his ideology, not save Jewish lives. He can have a section on another website.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2014, 07:10:06 PM »
Quote from the heretic Yahtruth9/26 secular year 2014 was on a Friday 10/3 in the secular year of 2014 was also on a Friday.
Each week has 7 distinct days. When you return to the same day of the week that you started on in the following week, you are on the 8th day.


lol how is this being questioned?  It's like someone coming in here calling himself KelTruth and saying we don't really know how to calculate 2 + 2, it's actually 5 and we've been wrong all along.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2014, 07:18:15 PM »
IsraeliHeart
To make such a suggestion is to say that all of our prophets, sages, Torah scholars of the past thousand and hundreds of years are clueless about the calendar and yontif and they just don't know anything. Who would dare say he knows better than all of them?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your inquiry IsraeliHeart. I hope this helps to explain the differences.

In the Middle Ages the Karaites ardently maintained that the Biblical year begins with the ripeness of the Barley crop in Israel (called in the Bible "Abib"). The Rabbinic calendar had originally followed this practice but around the 9th century CE they adopted a 19 year cycle of intercalation (leap years) which approximates the Abib but which is far from accurate. This often caused a difference of a month between the Karaite and Rabbanite calendars.


You mean, like, a leap year?   We accept the fixed calendar established by the rabbinic sages because they had the authority to establish it.  At that time they were the ones studying the Torah in depth and ruling on matters of Jewish law in the Jewish communities.  They were the experts and they had the authority. (And it was established hundreds of years before the lie you are claiming about 9th century CE - a complete joke claim). 
The "Karaites" were established several hundreds of years later.  The definition of Johnny-Come-Lately's who wished to turn back the clock and wanted to worship their own leaders and their blind readings of scripture discarding hundreds of years of interpretation and understanding of a multiplicity of texts for their "simple readings" which were certainly for the simple-minded but anything but accurate.


Quote
The Abib was a central issue to the Karaites and to this day the Karaite marriage contract includes a vow that the marrying couple will celebrate the holidays "according to the visibility of the moon and the appearance of the Abib in the land of Israel."
Who cares?  We are not karaite phonies and do not give out cookies for the language in your marriage vows.   You should know that the karaite fake laws also prohibit intermarriage with rabbinic Jews so what business do you have here?   Your wares are fraudulent, don't peddle them here.

Offline Sveta

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1086
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2014, 05:16:08 AM »
Speaking of Johny-come-latelys I just realized that in the past few years Judaism has been plagued by a lot of Johny-come-latelys in ALL directions! With globalization and the message of the Torah getting across faster, you have non-Jews and others who get the message. Same story, they either "convert" the non-Hallakhic way through some invalid way, the black-Israelite hebrows, those who fall pray to messianic cults, kararites or the arrogant ones who end up adopting some weird "better than thou" form of non-Jewish type of Judaism (one of the "I don't have to convert but I'm going to publicly follow some type of twisted Torah my way and preach to actual Jews about who wrong they are about everything" ones. To newcomers like Asher Meza who want to turn Judaism around to non-Jews who suddenly know better than the sages. It used to be that people had some more reverence. People who wanted to be Jewish would accept Judaism the way it is and show some gratitude that it has been kept alive in its purest form with all it's fences. And there are actually people who do giyur who do have respect for the establishment and don't come in just to change everything.

But now there is a new phenomenon. The "Johny-come-lately" phenomenon. Complete with infiltrators who have no business yet show up and tell us how wrong we are.
I was just recently called a "christian pastor" by some non-Jews who were upset at me for saying that Judaism prohibits intermarriage and claimed I WAS the one twisting the Torah and misquoting the prohibition. Non-Jews who arrived out of nowhere into Jewish groups and suddenly now know better than everyone else. Oh, but if you tell them they are actually not Jewish then you're the villain "oppressing the convert" or being a bigoted hater.

And then we have the Karaites!

Isn't there a quote that insincere converts are like a plague to Israel? And yes it is a plague, all over the world. Everyone wants to be Jewish, but they just don't want the hard work that goes along with it, or the rules that go along with it.

Sorry about my rant, it's just that when I see things like this I get upset and I have noticed the trend of newby-know-it-alls who don't adopt Judaism but twist it to their own convenience. And by the way, I heard the typical story of a non-Jew that wants to be Jewish but is unwilling to go through a whole process yet end up calling themselves karaite and somehow become legitimate scholars all of the sudden who preach to everyone. Who in the world claims to be "a proud karaite" never seen it.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:36:53 AM by IsraeliHeart »

Offline Binyamin Yisrael

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 5299
Re: Yom Kippur starts tonight 10/6/2014 at sunset. Here's Proof
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2014, 04:50:13 PM »
The sages have the authority to delay or postpone Rosh Chodesh. Yom Kippur can't be Tuesday in out set calendar. Our calendar is set so Yom Kippur will never be Friday or Sunday (For obvious reasons.) and so Hoshana Rabba (today) can never be Shabbat (Which also prohibits Yom Kippur from being Tuesday.).