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Do they want Jews make Aliyah?

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Binyamin Yisrael:

--- Quote from: dimitry on October 22, 2014, 10:10:45 PM ---And comparing us to Muslims and Christians? Unlike Muslims and Christians - we are a nationality, tribe and ethnicity.
--- End quote ---


What about a religion? It is our religion which has kept us a people. What we saw in just 100 years in Russia is a microcosm of 2,000 years of assimilation that destroys the Jewish soul.

Any Jew that has one Jewish grandparent (mother's mother) is a full Jew, a 100% Jew.

Sveta:
Your problem is accepting the fact that gerim who do a Halakhic conversion are 100% Jewish descendants of Avraham Avinu while non-Jews (as much Jewish ancestry they may have) are 0% Jewish.

However, a non-Jew with a Jewish grandparent is allowed to make Aliyah, they just can't marry Jews in Israel because they are not Jewish. Regardless of what you can say, historically in the past wives and other people that Jews married did a conversion, so the ancient Israelites and early Ashkenazim were Jewish, because people who joined them did a conversion to get in.

A Jewish man who has a child with a non-Jew is spiritually not the father, I know DNA he is the bilogical father but in the Jewish establishment, the child is not regarded as Jewish, nor half-Jewish. Regardless of what biology is and DNA etc..etc.. we are only talking about being Halakihally Jewish. The convervaties and reforms do recognize such people are Jewish in their own beliefs.

So, why the need to argue with Orthodox Jews about it when you know we will never agree? Nor will the Israeli Chief Rabbinate agree? I am sure your family is very nice and I have nothing against them. But, the reality is that in the eyes of Orthodox Judaism, they are not Halakihally Jewish, not "half-Jewish". Maybe biologically. And a Ger Tzeddek who does a valid conversion has 100% a right to make Aliyah, who cares if he or she has 0 drops of Jewishness, they have a right to live in Israel because that is what Hashem promised to ALL Jews regardless if they have a Jewish mother or became Jewish. To even suggest that gerim are less able to claim Israel because of their lack of DNA-genetics is anti-Judaism.

Yehudayaakov:
We can say they don't want Jews in Israel it's a facade the state of Israel is showing to the world thus they can say how generous they are toward their Jewish brethren, a little condescending with lot of contempt that keeps lot of Jews coming in the Jewish country.

kyel:
Being Jewish is genetic.

The reason that we are successful, for example, is because Ashkenazim have a specific genetics, which predetermines us to have the highest IQ levels of any ethnic group in the world.

You can believe in superstitious rituals of conversion if you want (we could convert ten million Africans, and within a generation we would soon have one of the lowest IQs in the world, and we would lose all our tradition of learning, debate and science).

Conversion doesn't give you Jewish blood, genetics or ancestors. Conversion doesn't give you a Jewish intellect or IQ.

In the real world, the most important thing is your genetics.

Someone who is half Jewish, is a person with 50% Jewish blood. And a person who is a quarter Jewish, has 25% Jewish blood.



The reason Jewish genetics are high is because we have a studious tradition. Anyone willing to put in the effort to be a studious person will have a higher intelligence. Intelligence is caused by a combination of effort and genetics, but without effort a person who has the potential to be a genius and doesn't utilize it might as well be considered a stupid person. Converts to Judaism (every Jew in the world today has converts in their blood just look at the high rate of European features and studies to show this) are more likely to be intelligent and analytical than the surrounding population because Judaism is the most logical and brain-utilizing religion that ever existed. In the real world the most important thing is not your genetics, go try to get a job and tell your interviewer you have good genetics as your skill.

Rafoe:
I read a lot of confused reactions here from all sides, so let explain:

Torah of Israel (Jews) commands the Jews to marry Jews and have Jewish children so the Chosen People will continue to keep the Torah.

On the other hand the Torah also allows every gentile (goy), regardless of color and nationality, to enter the nation of Israel by conversion.
The conversion can take between 1-3 years (depending on the convert's progress).

On the one hand the Torah clearly says - who assimilated (marry a non Jew) cut himself away from Israel (As a branch cut from a tree).
Jewish woman who marrying a gentile, her children are consider as Jews but with some restrictions.
A Jewish man however can not have Jewish children with a gentile woman Because the nationality is determined according to the mother.

The ideall situation is two Jewish parents so there will be no doubts.

Not many people know but the daughter of a Jewish woman and non-Jew man can not marry with Cohen (as divorced or widowed), which is the price she pays for her mother's sins.

Bottom line - the Torah wants Jews marry Jews, but if you have to choose between descendants os assimilated Jews who live like Gentiles to converts who live a full Jewish life then you should prefer the converts.

Israelis like me know that a large majority of Russians Gentiles in Israel celebrate Christmas and live like total gentiles (because thats what they are).

Also - many Russian women converted to Islam and married with Arabs.

If we count the Jewish people by "blood", then the Jewish people should appoint at least 100 million people since assimilation is the biggest Holocaust in Jewish history, but because we do not count the Jews by blood, but only according to Jewish law (which defines who is a Jew) then all the talking about the "25 percent" or "50 percent" of Jews are no more than nonsense.


By the way - military service has never been a criterion to being a Jew.
King David had Army officials who were gentiles and he had never considered them as Jews.

There are even Arab Bedouin who serve in Israel's army. It still does not make them Jews.

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