Israel > Save Israel
Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 11, 2014, 11:00:37 PM ---The guy who made that website is a senile old pensioner, who has 'lost his marbles'.
It's true that not all Russian-speaking olim have a strong Jewish identity, but we all had one Jewish grandparent (or married to someone who did). (And sorry to disappoint you, but people don't forge documents to come to Israel, since the standard of living in Israel is not much higher than in Russia - anyone who did forge documents would either be doing it for criminal reasons or would instantly try to move on to a wealthy country like the US or Europe. They would not settle in Israel and serve in the IDF - which is not a great career option).
Aside from that, we are the most right-wing demographic in Israel, we disproportionately living in Judea and Samaria, serve in the army, many sacrifice our lives for Israel, the vast majority stand up for conservative family values and make up a huge proportion of the nation's scientists and engineers.
(I know that you will mention something about 'mafia' - but this is mainly from the Mountain and Bukharan Jews in Russia - and in Israel it is predominantly the Moroccan Jews).
[On the opposite spectrum are the mainstream American Jewish community, who support left-wing politics, vote for Obama, oppose family values, try to push for multiculturalism, etc. The left-wing American Jews are the greatest threat that Israel faces.]
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As for why Chaim can't set foot in Israel. This is something completely unrelated to Russian-Jews, and is because of the US government.
--- End quote ---
Let Chaim comment on that,but many of the Russian non-Jews are Jew-haters & I have a neighbor Olga who has not one Jewish relative & came here just for the aliyah benefits & yes the Gruzinis & the Morrocans are mafiosos.(Olga is not a Jew-hater & has been a Shabbat Goya for us many times & has done excellent tailoring for us)
Many of those with forged documents used Israel as a stepping stone to go elsewhere but many are still here.
And that site is truthful & everything on there has been reported on local media.
dimitry:
You're mixing up different things.
There are many olim in Israel who are 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish (or the non-Jewish spouses of them), or otherwise ethnic Jews who lack Jewish identity or interest in the religion, or who follow Christianity.
The Soviet Union tried to abolish and end Jewish identity, with an end of religious practice, and a high percentage of inter-marriage. What you have in Israel is simply a result of this policy.
Either you can write the community off in a racist way, or you can see it as having been saved in the last moment. (The American Jews are not far behind in this area, and unlike us, they won't be saved by a mass aliyah.) Regardless of lack of religiosity, it is probably the most patriotic community overall - and the one with the least proportion of the population holding a subscription to haaretz.
As for the website, it is written by some old pensioner (who had clearly suffered anti-semitic bullying in Soviet times and developed an obsession about it). He tells a few stories a couple of small articles, and then over-exaggerates and mixes different things together in the same way as people do on this website.
The 'false documents' are a red herring. Life is overall easier in Russia compared to Israel, and the cost of living in Russia is very low. Israel is not paved with gold - in fact the complete opposite. So no, the only area where this would be of interest would be for criminal activities or for travelling onto other countries. Aside from criminals or people trying to get into the West (which Israel is not particularly helpful for), this is not something you would be interested in. (If you made false documents, you would do it to immigrate to the EU or North America.) And let alone would anyone serve in the army (unpaid) or endure the life-style in Israel. The final issue, is that the consular verification is quite strict in this area (they don't care about many things - such as whether immigrants have a criminal record - but they care about proof of your Jewish ancestors and ask for original documents).
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 12, 2014, 01:32:46 AM ---Let Chaim comment on that,but many of the Russian non-Jews are Jew-haters
--- End quote ---
We already know that Chaim nowadays hates Russian-speaking olim, despite having gone to prison for them in 1980s.
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 12, 2014, 07:56:27 PM ---You're mixing up different things.
There are many olim in Israel who are 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish (or the non-Jewish spouses of them), or otherwise ethnic Jews who lack Jewish identity or interest in the religion, or who follow Christianity.
The Soviet Union tried to abolish and end Jewish identity, with an end of religious practice, and a high percentage of inter-marriage. What you have in Israel is simply a result of this policy.
Either you can write the community off in a racist way, or you can see it as having been saved in the last moment. (The American Jews are not far behind in this area, and unlike us, they won't be saved by a mass aliyah.) Regardless of lack of religiosity, it is probably the most patriotic community overall - and the one with the least proportion of the population holding a subscription to haaretz.
As for the website, it is written by some old pensioner (who had clearly suffered anti-semitic bullying in Soviet times and developed an obsession about it). He tells a few stories a couple of small articles, and then over-exaggerates and mixes different things together in the same way as people do on this website.
The 'false documents' are a red herring. Life is overall easier in Russia compared to Israel, and the cost of living in Russia is very low. Israel is not paved with gold - in fact the complete opposite. So no, the only area where this would be of interest would be for criminal activities or for travelling onto other countries. Aside from criminals or people trying to get into the West (which Israel is not particularly helpful for), this is not something you would be interested in. (If you made false documents, you would do it to immigrate to the EU or North America.) And let alone would anyone serve in the army (unpaid) or endure the life-style in Israel. The final issue, is that the consular verification is quite strict in this area (they don't care about many things - such as whether immigrants have a criminal record - but they care about proof of your Jewish ancestors and ask for original documents).
We already know that Chaim nowadays hates Russian-speaking olim, despite having gone to prison for them in 1980s.
--- End quote ---
Not having a Jewish mother = Goy & we don't want Goyim coming in on aliyah & getting benefits meant for Jews.
Want be a Jew either convert to Judaism by an Orthodox rabbi(which means having a brit mila which we all know you people are adverse to) or have a Jewish mother.
Chaim does not hate Russian Olim & neither do I & he did NOT fight & get arrested for uncircumcised Goyim to come here he fought & went to prison so Jews real Jews with a Jewish mother or who had a conversion by an Orthodox rabbi can come here.
You want to remain Goyim fine by us but no aliyah but if you want to be here & have citizenship you have to go through a naturalization process like in other countries but no automatic citizenship for non-Jews that right belongs to Jews only or else you can be residents with something akin to a US green card.
There is no such a thing as 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 Jewish Dmitry either you are Jewish or you are not this is like being 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 pregnant either a woman is pregnant or she is not.
You are the one that is mixed up as to what a Jew is.
Halacha defines that & if that bothers you tough!!!!
dimitry:
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 13, 2014, 12:00:04 AM ---Not having a Jewish mother = Goy & we don't want Goyim coming in on aliyah & getting benefits meant for Jews.
Want be a Jew either convert to Judaism by an Orthodox rabbi(which means having a brit mila which we all know you people are adverse to) or have a Jewish mother.
Chaim does not hate Russian Olim & neither do I & he did NOT fight & get arrested for uncircumcised Goyim to come here he fought & went to prison so Jews real Jews with a Jewish mother or who had a conversion by an Orthodox rabbi can come here.
You want to remain Goyim fine by us but no aliyah but if you want to be here & have citizenship you have to go through a naturalization process like in other countries but no automatic citizenship for non-Jews that right belongs to Jews only or else you can be residents with something akin to a US green card.
There is no such a thing as 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 Jewish Dmitry either you are Jewish or you are not this is like being 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 pregnant either a woman is pregnant or she is not.
You are the one that is mixed up as to what a Jew is.
Halacha defines that & if that bothers you tough!!!!
--- End quote ---
Being Jewish is genetic.
The reason that we are successful, for example, is because Ashkenazim have a specific genetics, which predetermines us to have the highest IQ levels of any ethnic group in the world.
You can believe in superstitious rituals of conversion if you want (we could convert ten million Africans, and within a generation we would soon have one of the lowest IQs in the world, and we would lose all our tradition of learning, debate and science).
Conversion doesn't give you Jewish blood, genetics or ancestors. Conversion doesn't give you a Jewish intellect or IQ.
In the real world, the most important thing is your genetics.
Someone who is half Jewish, is a person with 50% Jewish blood. And a person who is a quarter Jewish, has 25% Jewish blood.
This can be verifed by genetic tests - a person who has the surname Cohen, passed to them from their father, will usually carry the Y-Chromosomal Aaron, regardless of who their mother was. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron) Such a person is infinitely more Jewish , than some random African like Capers Funnye, whose only connection is that they went through a ceremony with a rabbi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capers_Funnye).
Russian olim who are 50% Jewish or 25% Jewish, are people with 50% and 25% descent from Ancient Israel. Therefore they have a right to live in the land of Israel, in which their ancestors lived .
On the other hand, converts to Judaism, have no ancestors who ever lived in Israel, and should have far less right to live in Israel.
I think that it's ok to argue that we should give priority to people who are ethnically 100% Jewish, over people who are 50% Jewish, or 25% Jewish. But the latter still have significant Jewish blood and it's absurd to say they are not Jewish (anymore than you could call Obama a cracker because he is only half-black). Half or a quarter of their ancestors are from ancient Israel.
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 13, 2014, 04:20:47 PM ---Primarily being Jewish is genetic.
The reason that we are successful, for example, is because Ashkenazim have a specific genetics, which predetermines us to have the highest IQ levels of any ethnic group in the world.
You can believe in superstitious rituals of conversion if you want (we could convert ten million Africans, and within a generation we would soon have one of the lowest IQs in the world, and we would lose all tradition of learning or science).
But conversion doesn't give you Jewish blood, genetics or ancestors. Conversion doesn't give you a Jewish intellect or personality.
In the real world, the most important thing is your genetics.
Someone who is half Jewish, is a person with 50% Jewish blood. And a person who is a quarter Jewish, has 25% Jewish blood.
This can be verifed by genetic tests - a person who has the surname Cohen, passed to them from their father, will usually carry the Y-Chromosomal Aaron, regardless of who their mother was. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron) Such a person is infinitely more Jewish , than Capers Funnye, whose only connection is that they went through a ceremony with a rabbi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capers_Funnye).
Russian olim who are 50% Jewish or 25% Jewish, are people with 50% and 25% descent from Ancient Israel. Therefore they have a right to live in the land of Israel, in which their ancestors lived .
On the other hand, converts to Judaism, have no ancestors who ever lived in Israel, and should have far less right to live in Israel.
--- End quote ---
No Dmitry being Jewish is determined by halacha.
Capers Funnye is not a Jew & not recognized as such by any reliable bet din.
If you feel this way you do not belong here as Rabbi Kahane our late mentor felt as I do what is a Jew.
A convert is as Jewish as any born Jew,however a person with a Jewish father & a Goya mother is not a Jew at all.
If you want to be a Jew get a brit mila & convert other wise you are not a Jew period!!!
A convert a real convert has more of a right to be here than you if you are not Jewish according to halacha get through your head as all Kahanists feel as I do.
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