Israel > Save Israel
Do they want Jews make Aliyah?
dimitry:
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 13, 2014, 04:32:18 PM ---
If you want to be a Jew get a brit mila & convert other wise you are not a Jew period!!!
--- End quote ---
Well first of all, I am halachic Jew, by my maternal grandmother, so your comment about converting makes no sense, if it is aimed at me.
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 13, 2014, 04:32:18 PM ---No Dmitry being Jewish is determined by halacha.
Capers Funnye is not a Jew & not recognized as such by any reliable bet din.
If you feel this way you do not belong here as Rabbi Kahane our late mentor felt as I do what is a Jew.
A convert is as Jewish as any born Jew,however a person with a Jewish father & a Goya mother is not a Jew at all.
If you want to be a Jew get a brit mila & convert other wise you are not a Jew period!!!
A convert a real convert has more of a right to be here than you if you are not Jewish according to halacha get through your head as all Kahanists feel as I do.
--- End quote ---
But the real reason we are Jewish?
We are Jewish because we have Jewish blood. We have thousands of years of Jewish history, written in our DNA. This is infinitely more important than a piece of paper which says someone is 'converted'. Our ancestors lived as Jews for thousands of years.
A convert is never as Jewish as a born Jew, since you cannot change thousands of years of your family history. Conversion doesn't give you DNA of the Ancient Levant or direct ancestry from the Ancient Israelites.
We have blood from Ancient Israel, and this is why we must have a right to live in Israel. End of story.
Now if we go back to the topic of Russian-speaking olim. A large proportion are 50% Jewish, or only 25% Jewish (or non-Jews married to people with only one Jewish grandparent). So it is fair to say that the connection of the group to Israel becomes increasingly diluted. But it is still a legitimate ancestral connection even if it is in many cases it an increasingly diluted connection of 50% or 25%.
This is why when we return to Israel, we say we are returning to our historical homeland and the land of our ancestors.
Whether Kahanists feel the same way as me? I am not aware of his ideas. I came here because I thought this was a right-wing forum for Jews.
Also I add I don't have anything against converts - only if they claim to be more Jewish than people with Jewish heritage.
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 13, 2014, 04:44:15 PM ---Well first of all, I am halachic Jew, by my maternal grandmother, so your comment about converting makes no sense, if it is aimed at me.
But the real reason we are Jewish?
We are Jewish because we have Jewish blood. We have thousands of years of Jewish history, written in our DNA. This is infinitely more important than a piece of paper which says someone is 'converted'. Our ancestors lived as Jews for thousands of years.
A convert is never as Jewish as a born Jew, since you cannot change thousands of years of your family history. Conversion doesn't give you DNA of the Ancient Levant or direct ancestry from the Ancient Israelites.
We have blood from Ancient Israel, and this is why we must have a right to live in Israel. End of story.
Now if we go back to the topic of Russian olim. A large proportion are 50% Jewish, or only 25% Jewish (or non-Jews married to Jews). So it is fair to say that the connection of the group to Israel becomes increasingly diluted. But it is still a legitimate ancestral connection even if it is in many cases it an increasingly diluted connection of 50% or 25%.
This is why when we return to Israel, we say we are returning to our historical homeland and the land of our ancestors.
--- End quote ---
On that account I owe you an apology & yes if your maternal grandmother is indeed Jewish that so are you,I was under the impression that your mother's side was not Jewish from the way your were talking.
Again there is no such a thing as 1/2 Jewish either you are or you are not & halacha determines that.
No if they are not halachic Jews the connection is severed they may as well go to Europe & make room for those that need to be here meaning real Jews.
We are all for Russian Jews NOT Goy half breeds who think that they are Jews when in fact they are not.
My family came from Russia but they are all real Jews who never intermarried with Goyim.
Again a convert as just as Jewish as the biggest rabbi & more so than a half breed who has a shiksa mother.
dimitry:
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 13, 2014, 04:56:33 PM ---On that account I owe you an apology & yes if your maternal grandmother is indeed Jewish that so are you,I was under the impression that your mother's side was not Jewish from the way your were talking.
Again there is no such a thing as 1/2 Jewish either you are or you are not & halacha determines that.
No if they are not halachic Jews the connection is severed they may as well go to Europe & make room for those that need to be here meaning real Jews.
We are all for Russian Jews NOT Goy half breeds who think that they are Jews when in fact they are not.
My family came from Russia but they are all real Jews who never intermarried with Goyim.
Again a convert as just as Jewish as the biggest rabbi & more so than a half breed who has a shiksa mother.
--- End quote ---
I don't agree at all with this viewpoint. It goes against rationality.
You are saying people who are genetically 50% or 25% descended from Ancient Israel, have no right to live in Israel, even though their ancestors walked on the land of Israel, and dreamed of returning for thousands of years. While a convert, whose ancestors have never been near Ancient Israel, and never dreamed of Israel - has a right to Israel because they spent a few months studying Judaism?
This is for me, an anti-Zionist position.
In Russian, 'aliyah' is described as 'repatriation'. You are repatriating to the land of your ancestors - if you have Jewish ancestors, then when you come to Israel, you are returning home.
(And someone who is 25% Jewish by blood, is still somewhat coming home when they come to Israel more than than a convert who has 0% Jewish blood.)
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 13, 2014, 04:56:33 PM ---
Again a convert as just as Jewish as the biggest rabbi & more so than a half breed who has a shiksa mother.
--- End quote ---
I will never accept that (for example African American) who converts to Judaism, is really Jew. On the other hand, people who are half-Jewish or even quarter Jewish, and they authentically have Jewish blood - they are for me - real Jewish people or real partly Jewish people. And I see them as family (which they literally are, since their ancestors were cousins or even siblings to my ancestors).
ChabadKahanist:
--- Quote from: dimitry on October 13, 2014, 05:21:32 PM ---I don't agree at all with this viewpoint. It goes against rationality.
You are saying people who are genetically 50% or 25% descended from Ancient Israel, have no right to live in Israel, even though their ancestors walked on the land of Israel, and dreamed of returning for thousands of years. While a convert, whose ancestors have never been near Ancient Israel, and never dreamed of Israel - has a right to Israel because they spent a few months studying Judaism?
This is for me, an anti-Zionist position.
In Russian, 'aliyah' is described as 'repatriation'. You are repatriating to the land of your ancestors - if you have Jewish ancestors, then when you come to Israel, you are returning home.
(And someone who is 25% Jewish by blood, is still somewhat coming home when they come to Israel more than than a convert who has 0% Jewish blood.) I will never accept that (for example African American) who converts to Judaism, is really Jew. On the other hand, people who are half-Jewish or even quarter Jewish, and they authentically have Jewish blood - they are for me - real Jewish people or real partly Jewish people. And I see them as family (which they literally are, since their ancestors were cousins or even siblings to my ancestors).
--- End quote ---
Yes I am saying that.
If you are not halachically Jewish you are NOT jewish case closed & you don't belong here.
And an African-American or anybody else who converts according to halacha is more Jewish than an uncircumcised half breed with a Shiksa mother.
So basically you are denying what Authentic Judaism says.
So why are you here then?
Why is Chaim denied even entry to Israel & other real Jews denied aliyah or are denied entry into Israel just like Chaim while these uncircumcised half breeds with Shiksa mothers are given citizenship carte blanch no questions asked?
When a real Jewish government gets in this will be corrected & the law of returned amended to read born of a Jewish mother or converted according to halacha.
dimitry:
--- Quote from: ChabadKahanist on October 14, 2014, 01:49:43 AM ---Yes I am saying that.
If you are not halachically Jewish you are NOT jewish case closed & you don't belong here.
And an African-American or anybody else who converts according to halacha is more Jewish than an uncircumcised half breed with a Shiksa mother.
So basically you are denying what Authentic Judaism says.
So why are you here then?
Why is Chaim denied even entry to Israel & other real Jews denied aliyah or are denied entry into Israel just like Chaim while these uncircumcised half breeds with Shiksa mothers are given citizenship carte blanch no questions asked?
When a real Jewish government gets in this will be corrected & the law of returned amended to read born of a Jewish mother or converted according to halacha.
--- End quote ---
The idea that an African American who studies Judaism for a few months, becomes a 'real Jew'. While someone who is half-Jewish (perhaps even called Cohen), is not?
It is a fundamentally illogical idea, and it is in my opinion anti-Zionist position.
Also you muddle up different issues altogether. The reason Chaim is denied entry to Israel, is because of serving prison-time in US. It has nothing to do with the Law of Return.
I would propose to amend the Law of Return to exclude converts, who have no Jewish heritage (and who are not married to a person with at least one Jewish grandparent). But otherwise, I support it. Since the most important thing is to save the people with Jewish heritage, and keep their Jewish identity. They are part of my family, and their ancestors were relatives of mine (and presumably your). The reason we have legitimate claim to Israel is because it is the land of our ancestors.
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