Is a protest vote for a Constitution Party candidate an acceptable protest vote?

[Southern Noachide]

I am well aware that the "Constitution Party" is (at its top level at least) an anti-Israel, "palaeoconservative," palaeo-Jeffersonian front for the John Birch Society.  I well remember that Alan Keyes was rejected as their nominee one year simply for being pro-Israel.

However, when faced with the choice of a liberal Republican and a Democrat candidate, is a vote for the CP candidate (who isn't going to win anyway) acceptable as a protest vote?  On the one had I realize that even if the candidate is anti-Israel, he/she is never going to get the opportunity to enact his/her views.  On the other hand, a vote for any anti-Israel candidate, however symbolic, could be seen as a vote for the right wing anti-Zionist ideology and could even be punished by Heaven.

What makes me think this question is worth asking is that I have heard that the CP's grass roots members include many good pro-Israel people who don't share the arcane and cultic views of the party leadership.  Robert Dornan was certainly pro-Israel, and HE ran on their ticket one year.

Does anyone have any advice?

[Lisa]

If I remember correctly, Mord posted a months ago about JBS.  He wrote that they are actually pro Israel.  In fact, I went through their site, and it seemed pro-Israel.  I didn't see anything anti-Semitic about it. 

Now as for the Constitution Party, I have no idea.  If their top brass are a bunch of Buchananites, then maybe it would be best not to vote at all. 

[Southern Noachide]

Thank you for your advice on the CP, but I must disagree with the assertion that the JBS isn't anti-Israel.  The JBS has, in fact, served as the "blue lodge" where people have been exposed to the "conspiracy theory" (which is too often simply anti-Semitism with the word "Jews" removed) for the first time.  From here, such people have often gone on to become raving Jew-haters in out-and-out anti-Jewish and national socialist organizations.

The JBS' own position on Israel is very subtle.  I can tell you this though, with absolute authority: they are NOT the philo-Semitic American Fundamentalist Protestants who make up so much of the religious right in this country.  Ron Paul is practically their patron saint, and they have never (with the brief exception of the Begin era) considered Israel an ally against Communism as they have Nationalist China, Rhodesia, apartheid South Africa, Falangist Spain, Papadopoulos Greece, or Salazar Portugal.

I know all this because I was once a member, and I saw first hand their promotion of bowdlerized anti-Jewish literature such as that by Prince Michel Sturdza (Romanian Iron Guard apologist) and Nesta Webster.

I know that there are Jewish members in the JBS and always have been.  But so long as the JBS remains a "palaeoconservative" organization its Jewish members will be nothing more than window dressing and camouflage.

Now, if its Jewish members ever take it over and make it into a truly decent organization, then I will reconsider my position.

[Lisa]

Thanks for the info. Southern Noahide. 

Judging by your description, I would stay away from them.  After all, why be a "beard" for them?  And what's a "blue lodge?" 

As for what you should do, if you can't stand either the Democrat or the RINO running, then don't vote. 

[Southern Noachide]

Thanks for the info. Southern Noahide. 

Judging by your description, I would stay away from them.  After all, why be a "beard" for them?  And what's a "blue lodge?" 

As for what you should do, if you can't stand either the Democrat or the RINO running, then don't vote.

Thanks.  Looks like that's what I'll be doing.

Too bad there are no decent independent candidates.

[ChabadKahanist]

Thank you for your advice on the CP, but I must disagree with the assertion that the JBS isn't anti-Israel.  The JBS has, in fact, served as the "blue lodge" where people have been exposed to the "conspiracy theory" (which is too often simply anti-Semitism with the word "Jews" removed) for the first time.  From here, such people have often gone on to become raving Jew-haters in out-and-out anti-Jewish and national socialist organizations.

The JBS' own position on Israel is very subtle.  I can tell you this though, with absolute authority: they are NOT the philo-Semitic American Fundamentalist Protestants who make up so much of the religious right in this country.  Ron Paul is practically their patron saint, and they have never (with the brief exception of the Begin era) considered Israel an ally against Communism as they have Nationalist China, Rhodesia, apartheid South Africa, Falangist Spain, Papadopoulos Greece, or Salazar Portugal.

I know all this because I was once a member, and I saw first hand their promotion of bowdlerized anti-Jewish literature such as that by Prince Michel Sturdza (Romanian Iron Guard apologist) and Nesta Webster.

I know that there are Jewish members in the JBS and always have been.  But so long as the JBS remains a "palaeoconservative" organization its Jewish members will be nothing more than window dressing and camouflage.

Now, if its Jewish members ever take it over and make it into a truly decent organization, then I will reconsider my position.

I must disagree with you about the John Birch Society.
The late Avi Osdoba,A"H shlepped me to a few of their meetings & their positions were exactly the same as ours.
Both of us were visibly Jewish with our yarmulkas & me even more so with my untrimmed beard & the JBSers were all very warm & cordial to us.
Also Rabbi Marvin Antelman the former head of Boston JDL was very friendly with the Birchers.

[Lisa]

Chabad Kahanist, is this the same Rabbi Martin Antelman who wrote the book "To Eliminate The Opiate?"

[ChabadKahanist]

Chabad Kahanist, is this the same Rabbi Martin Antelman who wrote the book "To Eliminate The Opiate?"

Yes it is.

[Lisa]

Have you read that book Chabad Kahanist .  There's also a 2nd volume

[ChabadKahanist]

Have you read that book Chabad Kahanist .  There's also a 2nd volume

No I haven't.

[Lisa]

We used to have a member named Marzutra who recommended that book, among others.  I would like to read it one of these days.  Is this Rabbi still alive?  Perhaps he can join our forum.

[ChabadKahanist]

We used to have a member named Marzutra who recommended that book, among others.  I would like to read it one of these days.  Is this Rabbi still alive?  Perhaps he can join our forum.

As far as I know he is but he is not well physically.

[Southern Noachide]

I must disagree with you about the John Birch Society.
The late Avi Osdoba,A"H shlepped me to a few of their meetings & their positions were exactly the same as ours.
Both of us were visibly Jewish with our yarmulkas & me even more so with my untrimmed beard & the JBSers were all very warm & cordial to us.
Also Rabbi Marvin Antelman the former head of Boston JDL was very friendly with the Birchers.

You evidently misunderstood my statements about the JBS.  I am well aware that they have Jewish members and always have had.  And I never intimated that they were going to act hostilely to Jews appearing at their meetings.

The JBS' hostility to Israel is subtle (other than their constant cheering for lunatic Ron Paul).  They do not consider Israel to be an ally in the same way other countries are.  And they often publish articles that treat Israel and its enemies with moral equivalency, and bemoan the fact that the US and Israel are so close.  You can be sure that they never had this attitude about Rhodesia or South Africa, or even Nationalist China.  Why don't you go to the website of their magazine (The New American) and see how many pro-Israel articles you can find?  I doubt you will find a one, though Samuel Blumenthal used to write one occasionally.

The Birch Society has served as the "respectable" front group for conspiracy theory groups.  It is also the only such group that is not up-front anti-Semitic.  Once a person buys into conspiracy theory, every source he will ever find outside the JBS proper (and some of them inside the organization) will be explicitly anti-Semitic.  In other words, anyone turned onto conspiracy theories by the Birch Society is a candidate to become a Nazi.

They have also published "anti-conspiracy" books by anti-Semitic authors.  Prince Michel Sturdza of Romania was an Iron Guard (mach shemam vezikhram!) supporter.  They published three of his books (Betrayal by Rulers, The Suicide of Europe, and Teddy Bare).  One of these books opens with an explicitly anti-Israel chapter.  They also for years published and distributed the works of the notorious Nesta H. Webster--and illegal pirate copies at that, since the official copyright holder was a bunch of avowed Jew-hating Nazis.

They also number just about every anti-Semitic agitator in American history as heroes--men such as Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh.  While non-conspiratorialist conservatives are libeled as agents of "the conspiracy," anti-Semites never are.  Their anti-Semitism is always seen as a simple "misunderstanding," while their zeal is always praised.

And don't forget one very important thing: the Birch Society is a "palaeoconservative" organization, and "palaeoconservatism" is an idolatrous philosophy that posits a separate and equally valid "gxd" and "religious truth" for every ethnic group, with no universals whatsoever.  American "palaeoconservatives" never actually invoke the alleged "objective truth" of Xianity, but rather the historical datum that the US is historically a Xian country.  So?  Saudi Arabia is traditionally a moslem country, but islam is still a false religion.  ALL such idolators of local "gxds" hate the Jewish People for representing the One True Universal G-d, HaShem.  No "palaeoconservative" is a friend of Israel or the Jews or a fearer of HaShem.

Finally, I learned what I know about the Birch Society the hard way--I was a member from 1977 to 1981 (when Jimmy Carter was making them look like infallible prophets) and to my eternal shame they almost turned me.  Thank G-d He rescued me from their clutches!

Naturally you're not going to get all this out of going to a meeting.  And I never said you would.

[Southern Noachide]

Have you read that book Chabad Kahanist .  There's also a 2nd volume

I own and have read both books.

You should know that Rabbi Antelman's **religious** beliefs are a little out of the mainstream.  For example, he argues for expunging the reference to "'Af-Beri" in the prayer for rain and wants to purge "Unetanneh toqef" from the High Holy Day services.

[Lisa]

What does he have against Unetaneh Tokef?

[Southern Noachide]

What does he have against Unetaneh Tokef?

That would take a while to explain even after re-reading the material.

He basically says (this is in Volume II) that Rabbi `Amnon never actually existed and is a cipher for some anti-Semitic Sufi who lived a few centuries earlier.

[Lisa]

That would take a while to explain even after re-reading the material.

He basically says (this is in Volume II) that Rabbi `Amnon never actually existed and is a cipher for some anti-Semitic Sufi who lived a few centuries earlier.

Do you believe that?