Could Satmar Hassidim actually be as evil as they are ugly?

[Yerusha]

"Satmar Rebbe: Jews to blame for massacre"
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/187652#.VGzBxZscTn4

[muman613]

This is a low blow and leaning toward antisemitic. Here I strongly disagree with the approach of Yerusha as I see this as a case of Lashon Hara (even though I strongly disagree with the Satmar rebbe on the issue). I have been watching many WWII documentaries on the Third Reich and it was common for Nazi bastards to paint all Jews as ugly and big-nosed, fat and evil... Im sure that Jew haters are enjoying being validated by Jews that religious Jews are ugly...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Lashon Hara? Nope. Doesn't fall into that category.

 Anyway look at these other Capos

PHOTOS: Neturei Karta Visit Family Of Arab Egged Bus Driver Who Hung Himself Which Caused Riots

 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/272392/photos-neturei-karta-visit-family-of-arab-egged-bus-driver-who-hung-himself-which-caused-riots.html#comment-735535

[muman613]

Lashon Hara? Nope. Doesn't fall into that category.

 Anyway look at these other Capos

PHOTOS: Neturei Karta Visit Family Of Arab Egged Bus Driver Who Hung Himself Which Caused Riots

 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/272392/photos-neturei-karta-visit-family-of-arab-egged-bus-driver-who-hung-himself-which-caused-riots.html#comment-735535

You are aware of what Lashon Hara is? It is the statement of one Jew denigrating another Jew when what it being said is true. So how does this not fall into the category of Lashon Hara?

I have posted about this many times (and don't really want to post the sources again)... Can you explain how this doesn't fall into the category of Lashon Hara?

See this post http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,74999.msg628118.html#msg628118

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,63328.msg557036.html#msg557036

http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter1.html

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

You are aware of what Lashon Hara is? It is the statement of one Jew denigrating another Jew when what it being said is true. So how does this not fall into the category of Lashon Hara?

I have posted about this many times (and don't really want to post the sources again)... Can you explain how this doesn't fall into the category of Lashon Hara?

 Lashon Hara isn't even about denigrating. It is about speaking something derogatory and that isn't in the public. These statements of his are in public and he is the one saying it and actually spreading it about himself.

[muman613]

Lashon Hara isn't even about denigrating. It is about speaking something derogatory and that isn't in the public. These statements of his are in public and he is the one saying it and actually spreading it about himself.

No, calling him ugly is Lashon Hara. It is derogatory and it doesn't matter if it is in public (actually the sin is much worse the more it is said before)... The only time Lashon Hara is permitted is if it is to save a life (telling information which is derogatory, true, but will prevent someone from being harmed)...

Denigrating is saying something derogatory about someone...

http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter5.html


Here the places where it is permitted is discussed:

http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter10.html

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Its good to degrade him. Perhaps more.ppl will be.disgusted.by.his self.hating.comments

[muman613]

Its good to degrade him. Perhaps more.ppl will be.disgusted.by.his self.hating.comments

Obviously what he said was wicked and evil and I rebuke him and all who follow such craziness. But I prefer to strive to be free of such petty insults and attacks on physical features. If I do not agree with him I argue against the concepts and sources which he and his followers bring. Simply saying he looks evil, thus he is evil, is a simplification and in my opinion enters the arena of 'lashon hara'. Of course I may be wrong so my comments are only intended to represent my understanding.

[Yerusha]

Chaim frequently enunciates an ironclad principle: the more left-wing a person becomes, the uglier he becomes, and the more right-wing he becomes, the better looking he gets.

Whilst the Satmar are not exactly "left-wing", and followed the policy of their previous rebbe R.Yoel Teitelbum, which used to be one of total quietistic apoliticism, which has now morphed in to becoming staunchly anti-Israel, anti-Temple Mount, anti-Zionist, anti-Kahanist and even pro-Arab, pro-PLO and pro-Iranian on a chillul level, this has to be reflected on their fizzogs, aside from the problem of massive 1st cousin inbreeding in their community.



Though I am sure there are exceptions like the couple above, RIP. And 2 Satmarers insisted on carrying R.Kahane's body at his funeral.

And Satmarers make the best Chevra Kadisha eg as at the funeral of the massacred below



Satmarers recently set a new Erev Shabbos meis mitzva record of a person in Jerusalem being buried only 28 minutes after expiring!

[muman613]

While I respect Chaims opinion I still disagree as a principle that looks reflect righteousness. This is one of the lessons concerning Chanukah where the Greeks were incessantly concerned with physical looks compared to Judaism which is more concerned with spiritual achievement.

There are many examples of wicked people who were ugly, but there are also many examples of wicked people who were good looking. So too there are righteous people who are not the most beautiful.

[Lisa]

You know, the saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder has a kernel of truth to it. 

I think what Yerusha is trying to convey is that these Satmars blaming their fellow Jews for being murdered makes them look ugly (to him). 

In other words Yerusha is trying to post the exact opposite of the saying "pretty is as pretty does," which in this case becomes "ugly is as ugly does."

[muman613]

You know, the saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder has a kernel of truth to it. 

I think what Yerusha is trying to convey is that these Satmars blaming their fellow Jews for being murdered makes them look ugly (to him). 

In other words Yerusha is trying to post the exact opposite of the saying "pretty is as pretty does," which in this case becomes "ugly is as ugly does."

This may be true... But it seems like another 'Ugly Jew' kind of attack...



http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mills-mary/mills-00.html

From this point, the projection of the Jew as an enemy of the German people is a quick and easy step. He is conveyed as an infiltrator, who, upon gaining entry into German society, has usurped the political and economic power of Germany and focused his attention upon the destruction of the German people. Because the Jew is deemed such a threat to German society, the Nuremberg Laws are viewed as a justifiable means of self-defense. In order to make the status of the Jew as a deadly enemy of everything German as concrete as possible to German children, the teacher's guide suggests that pictures of Jews (which, of course, are ugly or distorted) be posted on the board next to pictures of the ideal German type. From the visual differences, other differences are inferred. "The Jews walk differently than we do. They have flat feet. They have longer arms than we do. They speak differently than we do."[4]

     From physical differences, it is an easy jump to more important differences. The thoughts, feelings, and actions of the Jew are presented as a contradiction and threat to German morality. In contrast to the honest German farmer or worker, the Jew is depicted as someone who lives off the sweat of others by his swindling activities as a lawyer, a merchant, or a banker, whose god is money. The Jew as a swindler is shown in the following picture by a twelve-year-old girl.[5] In the drawing, the Jewish livestock dealer's attention appears focused on the bag of money; his clothes are tattered and he is ill-kempt. The German farmer, by contrast, although giving the appearance of being exhausted, is adequately groomed. Finally, being Jewish is, by extention, a Christ-killer and is, therefore, deemed a crime. Jesus is viewed as a war hero who waged war against the Jews until he was killed by them. Children were provided with slogans to learn and recite such as: "Judas the Jew betrayed Jesus the German to the Jews."[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_St%C3%BCrmer

Der Stürmer was best known for its effective antisemitic caricatures, which depicted Jews as ugly characters with exaggerated facial features and misshapen bodies. In his propaganda work, Streicher furthered old myths from the Middle Ages, e.g., that Jews killed children, sacrificed them and drank their blood. Many of these drawings were the work of Philipp Rupprecht, known as Fips, who was one of the best-known anti-Semitic cartoonists, his virulent attacks wedding "Jewish capitalists" with "Jewish Communism" and so on.

At the bottom of the title page there was always the motto "Die Juden sind unser Unglück!" ("The Jews are our misfortune!"), coined by Heinrich von Treitschke in the 1880s.[3] In the nameplate was the motto "Deutsches Wochenblatt zum Kampfe um die Wahrheit" ("German Weekly Newspaper in the Fight for Truth")