Hello from Sarajevo

[hp]

Hello all JTFers.

I am a Bosnian Muslim currently in Sarajevo, but I study at an elite school in Boston, and I have been following JTF for a very long time, even though I strongly disagree with your message. I find extremist movements such as JTF interesting, even if I full reject their message.

The reason JTF interests me so much is that it classifies me as a Nazi, even though I don't think I am one, as I do not support the extermination of any people, and I think that the politics of the Nazi party were idiotic, and I support Israel's right to exist and I have Israeli friends.

I posted a thread like this on the old forums and was banned shortly after, but thanks to dynamic IPs I still continued reading.

Let's see how this one goes.

[newman]

Islam calls for the death, dhimmitude or forced conversion of all non-muslims. If you don't agree with this, then you are NOT a muslim.

[hp]

Islam calls for the death, dhimmitude or forced conversion of all non-muslims. If you don't agree with this, then you are NOT a muslim.

Actually, forced conversion is strictly forbidden. As is the killing of innocent people. One is allowed to kill during battle.

One cannot generalise all Muslims based on the ideology of the radical brainwashed Jihadists who call themselves Muslim.

It would be analogous to arguing that all Jews are Kahanists.

[newman]

Islam calls for the death, dhimmitude or forced conversion of all non-muslims. If you don't agree with this, then you are NOT a muslim.

Actually, forced conversion is strictly forbidden. As is the killing of innocent people. One is allowed to kill during battle.

One cannot generalise all Muslims based on the ideology of the radical brainwashed Jihadists who call themselves Muslim.

It would be analogous to arguing that all Jews are Kahanists.

The islamic definition of an 'innocent' person is not the same as the western one. Any western civilian who supports a non-muslim army and opposes islam is not innocent as far as islam is concerned.

Islam forced conversions all over the world. History shows it. To say it is not allowed is taqqiya.

Islam is as islam does. When catholics were murdering Jews, that's what catholicism called for. Islam is what the muslims do. You so-called moderates do NOTHING repeat NOTHING to oppose jihadists. Therefor you agree with them.

[Ultra Requete]

Hello all JTFers.

I am a Bosnian Muslim currently in Sarajevo, but I study at an elite school in Boston, and I have been following JTF for a very long time, even though I strongly disagree with your message. I find extremist movements such as JTF interesting, even if I full reject their message.

The reason JTF interests me so much is that it classifies me as a Nazi, even though I don't think I am one, as I do not support the extermination of any people, and I think that the politics of the Nazi party were idiotic, and I support Israel's right to exist and I have Israeli friends.

Nazis didn't called for extermination of all people "only" the Jews, Gipsies, Slavic upper classes of inteligentia (educated) and nobles (leaders) and other undeserables in Nazi NWO. The Bosnian muslims were priviliged ones in Himler envisioned European Union, even admitted to waffen-SS. Welcome anyway.

[hp]

Islam calls for the death, dhimmitude or forced conversion of all non-muslims. If you don't agree with this, then you are NOT a muslim.

Actually, forced conversion is strictly forbidden. As is the killing of innocent people. One is allowed to kill during battle.

One cannot generalise all Muslims based on the ideology of the radical brainwashed Jihadists who call themselves Muslim.

It would be analogous to arguing that all Jews are Kahanists.

The islamic definition of an 'innocent' person is not the same as the western one. Any western civilian who supports a non-muslim army and opposes islam is not innocent as far as islam is concerned.

Islam forced conversions all over the world. History shows it. To say it is not allowed is taqqiya.

Islam is as islam does. When catholics were murdering Jews, that's what catholicism called for. Islam is what the muslims do. You so-called moderates do NOTHING repeat NOTHING to oppose jihadists. Therefor you agree with them.

The Jihadist definition of an 'innocent' person is not shared by the vast majority of Muslims, at least the Muslims I know, and I know a very large number of Muslims from all over the world.

That is not to say that there were no forced conversions to Islam by those who claim to follow it, but then again, forced conversions aren't anything out of the ordinary in the Christian world either. I can't say that I've ever heard of forced conversion to Judaism though.

While the Europeans were killing each other for being the wrong type of Christian, the Ottoman Empire gave a fairly considerate amount of religious freedom, especially if you consider things like the Spanish Inquisition.

I do all that I can and I have denounced every jihadist, as has every Muslim I know. I do not consider jihadists Muslim, as murdering innocent people and suicide are strictly forbidden. To me they are simply poor, stupid and disillusioned people who were brainwashed into such horrendous acts.

What can I do to stop being a Nazi in your eyes?

[hp]

Nazis didn't called for extermination of all people "only" the Jews, Gipsies, Slavic upper classes of inteligentia (educated) and nobles (leaders) and other undeserables in Nazi NWO. The Bosnian muslims were priviliged ones in Himler envisioned European Union, even admitted to waffen-SS. Welcome anyway.

Yes you are right the Muslim Nazi unit, but there were also a large number of Christian Nazi units, and the whole of Croatia was converted into a Nazi puppet regime that even today has followers.

The fact is that the vast majority of the Yugoslavs opposed the Nazis. A number supported the Chetniks, who sought to re-instate the Karadjordjevic dynasty, and a much larger number supported Tito and the Partisans who did not terrorise the local populations as did the other two.

[HiWarp]

While the Europeans were killing each other for being the wrong type of Christian, the Ottoman Empire gave a fairly considerate amount of religious freedom, especially if you consider things like the Spanish Inquisition.

I do all that I can and I have denounced every jihadist, as has every Muslim I know. I do not consider jihadists Muslim, as murdering innocent people and suicide are strictly forbidden. To me they are simply poor, stupid and disillusioned people who were brainwashed into such horrendous acts.

What can I do to stop being a Nazi in your eyes?

I can't speak for others but for me you can stop touting the "fairness" of the Ottoman Empire.

[hp]

I can't speak for others but for me you can stop touting the "fairness" of the Ottoman Empire.

The Ottoman Empire wasn't fair by any means, and there was discrimination based on religion (non-Muslims had to pay higher taxes, Christian boys taken as slaves, non-Muslims couldn't work for the gov't etc..), I am just saying that when talking about the Ottoman Empire one ought to consider the situation in Europe at the time.

[newman]

Islam calls for the death, dhimmitude or forced conversion of all non-muslims. If you don't agree with this, then you are NOT a muslim.

Actually, forced conversion is strictly forbidden. As is the killing of innocent people. One is allowed to kill during battle.

One cannot generalise all Muslims based on the ideology of the radical brainwashed Jihadists who call themselves Muslim.

It would be analogous to arguing that all Jews are Kahanists.

The islamic definition of an 'innocent' person is not the same as the western one. Any western civilian who supports a non-muslim army and opposes islam is not innocent as far as islam is concerned.

Islam forced conversions all over the world. History shows it. To say it is not allowed is taqqiya.

Islam is as islam does. When catholics were murdering Jews, that's what catholicism called for. Islam is what the muslims do. You so-called moderates do NOTHING repeat NOTHING to oppose jihadists. Therefor you agree with them.

The Jihadist definition of an 'innocent' person is not shared by the vast majority of Muslims, at least the Muslims I know, and I know a very large number of Muslims from all over the world.

That is not to say that there were no forced conversions to Islam by those who claim to follow it, but then again, forced conversions aren't anything out of the ordinary in the Christian world either. I can't say that I've ever heard of forced conversion to Judaism though.

While the Europeans were killing each other for being the wrong type of Christian, the Ottoman Empire gave a fairly considerate amount of religious freedom, especially if you consider things like the Spanish Inquisition.

I do all that I can and I have denounced every jihadist, as has every Muslim I know. I do not consider jihadists Muslim, as murdering innocent people and suicide are strictly forbidden. To me they are simply poor, stupid and disillusioned people who were brainwashed into such horrendous acts.

What can I do to stop being a Nazi in your eyes?

You people do NOTHING to oppose jihadists. When has there ever been a large islamic protest against radical islam/jihad outside of Turkey?................NEVER, that's when.

Saying jihadists aren't real muslims is taqqiya (islamic deception). It would be like saying the inquisitors of Spain weren't real catholics. It's not true. They were. It is christianity and catholicism that CHANGED. There is NO CHANGE comming from within islam.

There was NEVER equallity for non-muslims in any islamic regime. Non-muslims lived in dhimmitude as 2nd class citizens........as REQUIRED by islam.

Islam is not a religion but a vicious, violent, savage arab death cult. It's founder mohammerhead was a violent terrorist, slave trader, child mollester and rapist. Those who truly follow his teachings are NO better.

You may NOT be a nazi. My point is that if you are NOT a jihadist it is YOU who is not the real muslim. Good for you, BTW.

[hp]

You people do NOTHING to oppose jihadists. When has there ever been a large islamic protest against radical islam/jihad outside of Turkey?................NEVER, that's when.

Saying jihadists aren't real muslims is taqqiya (islamic deception). It would be like saying the inquisitors of Spain weren't real catholics. It's not true. They were. It is christianity and catholicism that CHANGED. There is NO CHANGE comming from within islam.

There was NEVER equallity for non-muslims in any islamic regime. Non-muslims lived in dhimmitude as 2nd class citizens........as REQUIRED by islam.

Islam is not a religion but a vicious, violent, savage arab death cult. It's founder mohammerhead was a violent terrorist, slave trader, child mollester and rapist. Those who truly follow his teachings are NO better.

You may NOT be a nazi. My point is that if you are NOT a jihadist it is YOU who is not the real muslim. Good for you, BTW.

There isn't a very large population of Muslims outside of Turkey to stage such a protest, except in the Middle East, where the freedoms taken for granted in the Western world are considered nothing more than a mere dream. Nonetheless, Muslims ought to do more to renounce Jihadists.

I said that the Jihadists aren't Muslims since they do things that are explicitly forbidden in the Kuran.

There is change coming within Islam and there is a large number of moderate Muslims such as yours truly who are pushing towards change, but I will agree with you, Islam hasn't changed nearly enough.

Islam does indeed teach inner peace and moderation, the image of Islam you have is created by terrorists whom no sensible man would support, be he Muslim, Jewish or Christian.

[HiWarp]

You people do NOTHING to oppose jihadists. When has there ever been a large islamic protest against radical islam/jihad outside of Turkey?................NEVER, that's when.

Saying jihadists aren't real muslims is taqqiya (islamic deception). It would be like saying the inquisitors of Spain weren't real catholics. It's not true. They were. It is christianity and catholicism that CHANGED. There is NO CHANGE comming from within islam.

There was NEVER equallity for non-muslims in any islamic regime. Non-muslims lived in dhimmitude as 2nd class citizens........as REQUIRED by islam.

Islam is not a religion but a vicious, violent, savage arab death cult. It's founder mohammerhead was a violent terrorist, slave trader, child mollester and rapist. Those who truly follow his teachings are NO better.

You may NOT be a nazi. My point is that if you are NOT a jihadist it is YOU who is not the real muslim. Good for you, BTW.

There isn't a very large population of Muslims outside of Turkey to stage such a protest, except in the Middle East, where the freedoms taken for granted in the Western world are considered nothing more than a mere dream. Muslims should do more to renounce the Jihadists, I agree.

I said that the Jihadists aren't Muslims since they do things that are explicitly forbidden in the Kuran.

There is change coming within Islam and there is a large number of moderate Muslims such as yours truly who are pushing towards change, but I will agree with you, Islam hasn't changed nearly enough.

Islam does indeed teach inner peace and moderation, the image of Islam you have is created by terrorists whom no sensible man would support, be he Muslim, Jewish or Christian.

2.5 million Muslims in Albania
4 million in France
3 million in Germany
133 million in India
1.3 million in Japan
10.5 million in the Philippines
26 million in Russia
1.5 million in the U.K.
10 million in the U.S.

Last time I checked none of the above countries were in the Middle East.

[newman]

You people do NOTHING to oppose jihadists. When has there ever been a large islamic protest against radical islam/jihad outside of Turkey?................NEVER, that's when.

Saying jihadists aren't real muslims is taqqiya (islamic deception). It would be like saying the inquisitors of Spain weren't real catholics. It's not true. They were. It is christianity and catholicism that CHANGED. There is NO CHANGE comming from within islam.

There was NEVER equallity for non-muslims in any islamic regime. Non-muslims lived in dhimmitude as 2nd class citizens........as REQUIRED by islam.

Islam is not a religion but a vicious, violent, savage arab death cult. It's founder mohammerhead was a violent terrorist, slave trader, child mollester and rapist. Those who truly follow his teachings are NO better.

You may NOT be a nazi. My point is that if you are NOT a jihadist it is YOU who is not the real muslim. Good for you, BTW.

There isn't a very large population of Muslims outside of Turkey to stage such a protest, except in the Middle East, where the freedoms taken for granted in the Western world are considered nothing more than a mere dream. Nonetheless, Muslims ought to do more to renounce Jihadists.

I said that the Jihadists aren't Muslims since they do things that are explicitly forbidden in the Kuran.

There is change coming within Islam and there is a large number of moderate Muslims such as yours truly who are pushing towards change, but I will agree with you, Islam hasn't changed nearly enough.

Islam does indeed teach inner peace and moderation, the image of Islam you have is created by terrorists whom no sensible man would support, be he Muslim, Jewish or Christian.

There are 300,000 muslims in Australia, 5,000,000 in the USA and 20,000,000+ in Europe. Every single one of which has total freedom but NEVER (repeat NEVER) makes even the slightest attempt to demonstrate against jihadist islam.

Europeans were once ruled over by despotic kings but they rose up and overthrough them. Why can't muslims do the same? Even when middle eastern muslims have a chance at democracy, they vote for Jihadist parties! So don't give me the 'no freedom' excuse.

[hp]

You are right about the populations. Maybe I should have mentioned concentrations, but then again that would have left a few countries.

But then again: http://www.google.com/search?q=muslim+protest+against+terrorism

A cursory glance reveals protests against terrorism in Bahrain and Turkey.

So your argument is basically that all Muslims support the terrorists because you do not see large scale weekly protests against terrorism in countries with a sizeable Muslim population?

[newman]

You are right about the populations. Maybe I should have mentioned concentrations, but then again that would have left a few countries.

But then again: http://www.google.com/search?q=muslim+protest+against+terrorism

A cursory glance reveals protests against terrorism in Bahrain and Turkey.

So your argument is basically that all Muslims support the terrorists because you do not see large scale weekly protests against terrorism in countries with a sizeable Muslim population?

Don't play games. The protests don't have to be weekly at all.

The problem is there are NO protests. Weekly, monthly, quarterly or yearly. NONE.

Not even prominent islamic community leaders voicing opposition in the media.

SILENCE=APPROVAL.

[Serbian Cetnik (šumadinac)]

The fact is that the vast majority of the Yugoslavs opposed the Nazis. A number supported the Chetniks, who sought to re-instate the Karadjordjevic dynasty, and a much larger number supported Tito and the Partisans who did not terrorise the local populations as did the other two.

That isn't quite true, the partisans killed some german soldiers, because there was a rule that if you killed a german they'd kill # Serbs.
The partizans killed a german, and when the german troops arrived people fled in to the woods and there were the partizans waiting and giving out the red star caps.

[Serbian Cetnik (šumadinac)]

And as far as the protest goes they're not related to al qaida or any international muslim terrorist organisation.
The one in Bahrain is for shias and sunnis to unite and stop killing eachother...not Non-muslims.

the one in Turkey is because the Turks don't want to be an Islamic country not because there are terror squads killing non-muslims.

[Dan]

You are right about the populations. Maybe I should have mentioned concentrations, but then again that would have left a few countries.

But then again: http://www.google.com/search?q=muslim+protest+against+terrorism

A cursory glance reveals protests against terrorism in Bahrain and Turkey.

So your argument is basically that all Muslims support the terrorists because you do not see large scale weekly protests against terrorism in countries with a sizeable Muslim population?

Don't play games. The protests don't have to be weekly at all.

The problem is there are NO protests. Weekly, monthly, quarterly or yearly. NONE.

Not even prominent islamic community leaders voicing opposition in the media.

SILENCE=APPROVAL.

We see this sort of Nonsense talk all the time... Newman you are 100%. SILENCE = APPROVAL
If you are who you say you are then be different be brave and stand up to the Radical-Jihadists... until then your words mean nothing!

[hp]

That isn't quite true, the partisans killed some german soldiers, because there was a rule that if you killed a german they'd kill # Serbs.
The partizans killed a german, and when the german troops arrived people fled in to the woods and there were the partizans waiting and giving out the red star caps.

I think the more likely scenario was that they killed German soldiers because they were fighting them. I know that many Serbs died during WWII but I think that your argument is quite a bit of a stretch.


@newman: read the reply above mine.

[newman]

That isn't quite true, the partisans killed some german soldiers, because there was a rule that if you killed a german they'd kill # Serbs.
The partizans killed a german, and when the german troops arrived people fled in to the woods and there were the partizans waiting and giving out the red star caps.

I think the more likely scenario was that they killed German soldiers because they were fighting them. I know that many Serbs died during WWII but I think that your argument is quite a bit of a stretch.


@newman: read the reply above mine.

I suggest you re-read it.

He's AGREEING WITH ME!

[hp]

I suggest you re-read it.

He's AGREEING WITH ME!

Oh man the lack of sleep doesn't agree with me.

The lack of large scale protests doesn't really indicate support for terrorism. You have organisations like http://www.freemuslims.org. http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm has a lot of information on how a real Muslim ought to treat terrorism, which is the way the majority of Muslims see it.

[newman]

I suggest you re-read it.

He's AGREEING WITH ME!

Oh man the lack of sleep doesn't agree with me.

The lack of large scale protests doesn't really indicate support for terrorism. You have organisations like http://www.freemuslims.org. http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm has a lot of information on how a real Muslim ought to treat terrorism, which is the way the majority of Muslims see it.

The 'majority' of muslims are cheering the jihadists on and counting the days 'til they can move into our houses and rape our daughters!

[hp]

The 'majority' of muslims are cheering the jihadists on and counting the days 'til they can move into our houses and rape our daughters!

Well as I said, I know a very large number of Muslims and they are neither cheering on the Jihadists nor do they want to rape your daughter. Hell, we probably dislike the Jihadists more than others since they are making the lives of Muslims such as yours truly harder since their unforgivable actions give rise to discrimination against us.

[mosquewatch]

Quote " Well as I said, I know a very large number of Muslims and they are neither cheering on the Jihadists nor do they want to rape your daughter. Hell, we probably dislike the Jihadists more than others since they are making the lives of Muslims such as yours truly harder since their unforgivable actions give rise to discrimination against us. "

Oh looky here, we have a "moderate Muslim". So please tell the forum the number of the "Large amount of Muslims that do not cheer the jihadists." that you personally know. YOU ARE NOT DEALING WITH FOOLS IN THIS FORUM.

So Mr. Moderate Muslim, when the end times come, when the rocks and trees cry out, "Oh slave of allah, their is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." Are you for this? You better, you are a muslim.

Moderate kkk members didn't hang blacks, they just agreed with the idea. Moderate Muslims are with the jihadists, they just don't have the too say it.


 

[hp]

So Mr. Moderate Muslim, when the end times come, when the rocks and trees cry out, "Oh slave of allah, their is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." Are you for this? You better, you are a muslim.

That is strictly forbidden. All the quotes I've seen on JTF from the Qu'ran are taken out of context, that is, they do not mention what is written before those. The Qu'ran instructs Muslims to fight valiantly if attacked, but to never, ever attack innocent people.