Could somebody please explain to me what Masorti Movement is?

[ChabadKahanist]

It seems to me that it is nothing than more than the grossly misnamed American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here in Israel.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Why do the pronounce it masorti when the correct word is masorati?
They are anything but conservative or masorati but nothing more than a less honest version of the reform movement.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I knew a haredi guy in Israel who was formerly masorti, and he told me it has nothing to do with the american so-called "conservative movement."   He told me the Israeli thing is just less religious people in a framework that acknowledges Orthodox Judaism is real Judaism, but "We just don't/unwilling to keep all of it."    Conservative in america does not operate this way at all.

I don't know what the conservative movement calls itself in Israel or if they've even moved in there at all?  Do they have any presence at all?

[Zelhar]

The The American "Conservative Judaism" is trying to hijack this term off of the Hebrew lexicon in Israel. They dub themselves by that name although what it really mean is Jews who keep allot of the tradition and mitzvot even if not all of them.

[fibrogirl]

I knew a haredi guy in Israel who was formerly masorti, and he told me it has nothing to do with the american so-called "conservative movement."   He told me the Israeli thing is just less religious people in a framework that acknowledges Orthodox Judaism is real Judaism, but "We just don't/unwilling to keep all of it."   

I am Masorti in the Israeli sense and what you wrote is correct.

[ChabadKahanist]

I knew a haredi guy in Israel who was formerly masorti, and he told me it has nothing to do with the american so-called "conservative movement."   He told me the Israeli thing is just less religious people in a framework that acknowledges Orthodox Judaism is real Judaism, but "We just don't/unwilling to keep all of it."    Conservative in america does not operate this way at all.

I don't know what the conservative movement calls itself in Israel or if they've even moved in there at all?  Do they have any presence at all?

That is masorati what you are talking about  I am talking about is the movement here in Israeli called Masorti.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

That is masorati what you are talking about  I am talking about is the movement here in Israeli called Masorti.

Huh?

Are you saying Masorti and masorati are two different things?  If so, then I just told you about masorti and asked you about masorati.  If that's not what you meant then I have no idea what you are saying.  Please clarify. 

My point iis that Masorti israeli movement is NOT the american conservative movement but located in Israel.  It's a different thing.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

I knew a haredi guy in Israel who was formerly masorti, and he told me it has nothing to do with the american so-called "conservative movement."   He told me the Israeli thing is just less religious people in a framework that acknowledges Orthodox Judaism is real Judaism, but "We just don't/unwilling to keep all of it."    Conservative in america does not operate this way at all.

I don't know what the conservative movement calls itself in Israel or if they've even moved in there at all?  Do they have any presence at all?

Yes, Masorti means non-religious Israelis who don't consider themselves Secular. Masorti means Traditional. The Conservative Movement in Israel hijacked the word Masorti. Most Israelis probably have no idea what the "Masorti Movement" is. Masortim are usually Sfardic Jews that believe in the Torah but don't keep everything and admit that what they are doing is not normative Judaism.

When saying the word Masorti, I put an emphasis on the last syllable. But for the Conservative Movement in Israel, I put an emphasis on the middle syllable since that is how they pronounce it and it emphasized that they pronounce it wrong just like they define the word wrong.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Why do the pronounce it masorti when the correct word is masorati?

I guess it's like people like to called Sfardic Jews "Sefardim" instead of Sefaradim. It's also like people say parsha instead of parasha.

I usually say Masorti although I am against leaving out the a that many people like to omit from Sefaradim and parashah. I do leave out the e in Sefaradim sometimes. If I see it spelled in Hebrew with the vowels, I would say Sefaradim and not Sfaradim because I say the sheva when I see it unless it's a word that I'm accustomed to say it without the sheva.

Speaking of that, most people think machloket is how you say dispute. But it's spelled machaloket in Pirkei Avot. Maybe it's an optional thing like gefen and gafen. But I hold that it is not optional to leave out the a in Sefaradim and parasha.

What about Machshev, computer? Some people think it's called Mechashev. They think the plural is Mechashvim. In modern Hebrew it is Machshev and Machshevim. But it may be the other if you use Biblical vowels.

[ChabadKahanist]

Yes, Masorti means non-religious Israelis who don't consider themselves Secular. Masorti means Traditional. The Conservative Movement in Israel hijacked the word Masorti. Most Israelis probably have no idea what the "Masorti Movement" is. Masortim are usually Sfardic Jews that believe in the Torah but don't keep everything and admit that what they are doing is not normative Judaism.

When saying the word Masorti, I put an emphasis on the last syllable. But for the Conservative Movement in Israel, I put an emphasis on the middle syllable since that is how they pronounce it and it emphasized that they pronounce it wrong just like they define the word wrong.

The former are called masorati the latter meaning the movement calls themselves Masorti.
I googled it a few minutes ago & the Masorti movement in Israel is nothing more than the American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The former are called masorati the latter meaning the movement calls themselves Masorti.
I googled it a few minutes ago & the Masorti movement in Israel is nothing more than the American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here.

So then if I'm getting this right, MaSORti is a tiny group which is an import from America trying to hijack Judaism.  While MesoraTI are the traditional Israeli Jews, which is a sizable group and does not hate Judaism.

[ChabadKahanist]

So then if I'm getting this right, MaSORti is a tiny group which is an import from America trying to hijack Judaism.  While MesoraTI are the traditional Israeli Jews, which is a sizable group and does not hate Judaism.

Exactly!!!!

[Zelhar]

I don't know where you get it from. It is the same word, different pronunciation. To be honest I am not even sure which one is the grammatically correct. The way I pronounce and everyone I can think of would also I say it is "masorti".
[quote a

The former are called masorati the latter meaning the movement calls themselves Masorti.
I googled it a few minutes ago & the Masorti movement in Israel is nothing more than the American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here.

uthor=ChabadKahanist link=topic=79919.msg657255#msg657255 date=1427213164]
Exactly!!!!
[/quote]

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't know where you get it from. It is the same word, different pronunciation. To be honest I am not even sure which one is the grammatically correct. The way I pronounce and everyone I can think of would also I say it is "masorti".uthor=ChabadKahanist link=topic=79919.msg657255#msg657255 date=1427213164]
Exactly!!!!

Then I guess the question is, masorTI, or maSORti?  Two different pronunciations even with same spelling.

[Zelhar]

It is the same word, not two different words with different nikud but same spelling.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It is the same word, not two different words with different nikud but same spelling.

I know that.  With same words, same nikud, you can have different pronunciations based on what syllable is stressed.  (Granted probably only one of those is correct pronunciation.   Look at the capital letters I wrote and try pronouncing it two ways.
Here's an example.  Shabbos vs Shabbat.  (Pretend for a minute we all pronounced the letter tav the same).   Ashkenazim say SHABbos (good shabbes) and Sephardim say ShaBAT (shabbat shalom) stressing second syllable.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

I know that.  With same words, same nikud, you can have different pronunciations based on what syllable is stressed.  (Granted probably only one of those is correct pronunciation.   Look at the capital letters I wrote and try pronouncing it two ways.
Here's an example.  Shabbos vs Shabbat.  (Pretend for a minute we all pronounced the letter tav the same).   Ashkenazim say SHABbos (good shabbes) and Sephardim say ShaBAT (shabbat shalom) stressing second syllable.

While reading the Torah, Ashkenazim put the emphasis on the same syllable even when saying s instead of t.

For example: U'Ve Yom HaShabbAS Shnei Kevasim...

Sfaradim say: U'Ve Yom HaShabbAT...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

While reading the Torah, Ashkenazim put the emphasis on the same syllable even when saying s instead of t.

For example: U'Ve Yom HaShabbAS Shnei Kevasim...

Sfaradim say: U'Ve Yom HaShabbAT...

Are you trying to confuse Zelhar, or just being pedantic?   I used a specific example of a phrase people say to each other all the time.  It's an example where a word has the same spelling and letters and vowels, yet its pronounced differently solely due to the emphasis of different syllables.  I did not imply that this specific example applies to all other uses of Hebrew words or even this particular word.  And it has nothing to do with which ethnicity a person is.   What point are you making exactly?

There are many examples of words Ashkenazim say which are not the correct pronunciation of Hebrew because they stress a different syllable, by the way.   Some of that may be due to the influence of Yiddish and yiddishisms.  Again, that is besides the point.  I do not need for you to point out a counterexample of an Ashkenazi pronouncing a word properly.

[ChabadKahanist]

I don't know where you get it from. It is the same word, different pronunciation. To be honest I am not even sure which one is the grammatically correct. The way I pronounce and everyone I can think of would also I say it is "masorti".uthor=ChabadKahanist link=topic=79919.msg657255#msg657255 date=1427213164]
Exactly!!!!

Google Masorti Movement they even  have a webpage & they are definately the American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here in Israel.

[Zelhar]

Again it is the same word- it is the adjective derivative of the noun "Masoret מסורת". Honestly I can't recall anyone saying it like "Masorati". And also the only times I hear that term in reference to conservative Judaism is on the Jew hating local media. In spoken Hebrew we call them "conservativim".
http://www.snopi.com/xDic/HHDic.aspx

Google Masorti Movement they even  have a webpage & they are definately the American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here in Israel.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Again it is the same word- it is the adjective derivative of the noun "Masoret מסורת". Honestly I can't recall anyone saying it like "Masorati". And also the only times I hear that term in reference to conservative Judaism is on the Jew hating local media. In spoken Hebrew we call them "conservativim".
http://www.snopi.com/xDic/HHDic.aspx

Isn't Masoret only in a smichut, such a Masoret Avot? When not in a smichut, isn't the correct word Mesorah?

[ChabadKahanist]

Again it is the same word- it is the adjective derivative of the noun "Masoret מסורת". Honestly I can't recall anyone saying it like "Masorati". And also the only times I hear that term in reference to conservative Judaism is on the Jew hating local media. In spoken Hebrew we call them "conservativim".
http://www.snopi.com/xDic/HHDic.aspx

Here is their website tell me it is not the American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here
https://masorti.org/

[Zelhar]

I think the smichut for "Mesorah" is "Mesorat". "Masoret" is a noun in itself, which means tradition in modern Hebrew. Perhaps Mesorah is the archaic form for the same word. Some words don't have a special form for smichut. For example- Kaf Yad כף יד (palm of the hand). Kaf is a noun in itself.

Isn't Masoret only in a smichut, such a Masoret Avot? When not in a smichut, isn't the correct word Mesorah?

[Zelhar]

They are trying to hijack an already existing term, purposefully, in attempt of recruiting Israeli Jews to their pathetic movement.

Here is their website tell me it is not the American "conservative" movement renamed & transplanted here
https://masorti.org/

[muman613]

It is a sad story the so-called 'Conservative' movement in Judaism. I was raised, and bar mitzvahed in a Conservative shul back in 1978. I had a lot of respect for them until I realized they have become nothing more than a slightly retarded reform movement. Anything the reform did, the conservative did 10-15 years later.

This is how we are losing precious Jewish souls. From charlatan movements who make people believe mishegas.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

I think the smichut for "Mesorah" is "Mesorat". "Masoret" is a noun in itself, which means tradition in modern Hebrew. Perhaps Mesorah is the archaic form for the same word. Some words don't have a special form for smichut. For example- Kaf Yad כף יד (palm of the hand). Kaf is a noun in itself.

Well Kaf Yad in the plural would change form: Kapei Yad.

It's usually for singular feminine nouns (*) and plural masculine nouns (^).

For example: * Simcha + Torah = Simchat Torah.
                    ^ Yehudim + Russia = Yehudei Russia.

This is taking me back to my Ulpan Aleph days in Haifa in 2000 when I was 18.