Author Topic: Rabbi Lichtenstien : The passing of a Religious Zionist Torah Giant (Read 1416 times)

muman613 · « **on:** April 21, 2015, 01:24:08 AM »

Shalom,

Although I am only learning now of how great of a sage Rabbi Aaron Lichtenstein was I would like to express my sadness for the loss of this great man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aharon_Lichtenstein

Rabbi Lichtenstein was born in Paris, France, but grew up in the United States, studied in Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Berlin under Rabbi Yitzchok Hutner. He earned a BA and semicha ("rabbinic ordination") at Yeshiva University and a PhD in English Literature at Harvard University, where he studied under Douglas Bush.

After serving as Rosh yeshiva at Yeshiva University for several years, Rabbi Lichtenstein answered Rabbi Yehuda Amital's request in 1971 to join him at the helm of Yeshivat Har Etzion, located in Gush Etzion, and moved to Jerusalem. He maintained a close connection to Yeshiva University as a Rosh Kollel for the Gruss Institute in Jerusalem, an affiliate of Yeshiva University and its rabbinical school, Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary.

In 2005, he and his wife Dr. Tovah (née Soloveitchik) moved to Alon Shvut, where Yeshivat Har Etzion is located. They were married in 1960 and have six children.

On January 4, 2006, Rabbi Yaaqov Medan and Rabbi Baruch Gigi were officially invested as co-roshei yeshiva alongside Rav Amital and Rav Lichtenstein, with an eye toward Rabbi Amital's intention to retire.[3] On October 28, 2008, Rav Lichtenstein's eldest son, Rabbi Mosheh Lichtenstein, was officially invested as co-Rosh Yeshiva, simultaneous with Rav Amital's official retirement, this time with an eye toward Rav Aharon Lichtenstein's eventual plan to retire.

He was committed to intensive and original Torah study and articulates a bold Jewish worldview that embraces elements of modernity within the framework of a Torah life, reflecting the tradition of his teacher and father-in-law, Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik in line with Centrist Orthodoxy.[4]

Lichtenstein was awarded the Israel Prize for Jewish Literature on Israeli Independence Day: May 6 2014. [5] He passed away on April 20, 2015.[6] He was a source of inspiration for a wide circle of Jewry, for both his educational attainments and his intellectual and spiritual leadership.[7] He was especially admired by many centrist Modern Orthodox leaders.[8]

muman613 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2015, 01:26:01 AM »

Carl from Jerusalem (Of IsraelMatzav) claims to have studied under this rabbi...

http://www.israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2015/04/rav-aharon-lichtenstein-ztl.html

muman613 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2015, 01:40:12 AM »

muman613 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2015, 01:53:45 AM »

A hesped (Eulogy) has just been posted...

muman613 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2015, 02:15:34 AM »

muman613 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2015, 02:20:07 AM »

muman613 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2015, 02:27:47 AM »

The Rav certainly influenced his students in a positive manner. His performance of the mitzvah of teaching Torah was flawless.

muman613 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2015, 02:32:53 AM »

edu · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2015, 04:58:59 AM »

http://tabletmag.com/scroll/163893/american-raised-rabbi-aharon-lichtenstein-wins-the-israel-prize

Quote

Lichtenstein has also distinguished himself on the Israeli scene for his dovish political stances. Together with Amital, he supported the Oslo Accords and subsequent peace process. (A founding father of the religious peace party Meimad, Amital would serve as a minister without portfolio in the government of Shimon Peres.) When several prominent religious leaders in the settlement movement eulogized Baruch Goldstein after he massacred Muslim worshipers in Hebron in 1994, Lichtenstein famously rebuked them. Drawing on his vast Talmudic and halakhic erudition, he has also defended the right of the Israeli government to cede territory under Jewish law, publicly inveighed against price tag attacks against Palestinians, and refuted the rationales for rabbinic bans against selling Israeli land to Arabs.

Were you aware about this muman613?

Zelhar · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2015, 06:46:24 AM »

I don't know what to say, I would like to get some input from Chaim on this one.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2015, 08:36:19 AM »

Quote from: edu on April 21, 2015, 04:58:59 AM

http://tabletmag.com/scroll/163893/american-raised-rabbi-aharon-lichtenstein-wins-the-israel-prizeWere you aware about this muman613?

This is tricky. Rabbi Lichtenstein is highly respected and certainly a Torah scholar of immense stature. Same was true of Rabbi Amital. I read a biography on Rabbi Amital and was very impressed and could sympathize with him. I think in certain aspects these were probably tzadikim. At the same time I despise the politics of both of these men and find their politics very, very foolhardy. But if you read the biography on Rabbi Amital, you will see that some of his top students, who had nothing but reverence for their rebbe, felt the same way! And 1 of those top students became one of a number of successor co-rosh yeshiva at yeshivat Har Etzion. So I try to follow in the example of that student (now rav). I have nothing disparaging to say yet highly disappointed in certain things. Overall this is a loss to the Torah world.

Yehudayaakov · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2015, 02:35:20 PM »

Anyone professing disengagement of Jewish lands within the Jewish race is a murderer, as specified in the title how he be a Religious Zionist and support the death oslo at same time. He made more damages than good anyone he who helped the expel of gushkatif whose damages are still felt nowadays whose psychological damage to innocent Jew children isn't considered by the monsters initiator of the expel this rav a Torah scholar of immense stature not so grand.

muman613 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:42:24 PM »

I agree more with KWRBT than with Yehudayakov.

muman613 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:44:06 PM »

Yehudayaakov,

Are you familiar with the halachic questions involved with the Oslo agreement? While I disagree with those poskim who find it acceptable (of course with the claim of Pekuach Nefesh) I do not belittle their Torah knowledge. Rabbi Lichtenstein was and will remain a Torah giant whether you agree with him or not.

Zelhar · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2015, 03:55:45 PM »

Are you familiar with Yasser Arafat? Can you trust Yasser Arafat? Would you bet your life on that trust?

Quote from: muman613 on April 21, 2015, 03:44:06 PM

Yehudayaakov,

Are you familiar with the halachic questions involved with the Oslo agreement? While I disagree with those poskim who find it acceptable (of course with the claim of Pekuach Nefesh) I do not belittle their Torah knowledge. Rabbi Lichtenstein was and will remain a Torah giant whether you agree with him or not.

muman613 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 21, 2015, 04:25:41 PM »

Quote from: Zelhar on April 21, 2015, 03:55:45 PM

Are you familiar with Yasser Arafat? Can you trust Yasser Arafat? Would you bet your life on that trust?

I am sure you are aware of the halachic questions which were explored by the rabbis who supported it. Asking about my position should be obvious, I would not have entered that discussion, but there is still disagreement as to whether land for peace is ever acceptable (if and only if true peace is attainable, which is what breaks the deal for me immediately).

But are you questioning the halachic wisdom of this Torah sage? As if you know better than he? That, IMO, is chutzpah...

Can anyone produce any written finding on 'Land for Peace' by Rabbi Lichtenstein?

Zelhar · « **Reply #16 on:** April 21, 2015, 06:03:40 PM »

He wasn't the most outspoken pro-peace rabbi but at crucial points he was always in favor or in silence while trying to silence the opposing rabbis. Just a few important examples:

* Condemned and blamed Israel for the Sabra and Shatila Arab on Arab massacre.

* Came up with an insane "Jewish solution" to justify Oslo agreements: "Give up land? God forbid! No Jew has the mandate to give up an inch of the land of Israel.... BUT it's not the giving up the entire house that's stand in question but just how many rooms in it... a compromise that will let us keep the house with a diminished number of rooms is a Jewish, Torah, spiritual and moral solution."

* Criticized and ridiculed the rabbis who opposed the expulsion from Gush Katif and warned from the dire consequences:
"...I didn't have the tools to express an opinion [about the expulsion]. I don't have God's phone number like some other guys have".

http://www.kipa.co.il/now/62266.html (he)
http://news.walla.co.il/item/1804600 (he)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=iw&u=http://news.xoox.co.il/item_1703217.htm&prev=search (machine translation)

Muman, regarding questioning the wisdom of a Torah sage- I am questioning the wisdom as well as the title "sage" for a person who can be so wrong for so long and never really own up to his mistake. When a Torah "sage" starts meddling in politics- he is not beyond criticism. I put aside whatever wisdom and learning he may have on other subjects that are not immediately relevant to the public policy he advocates which has a direct influence on me as a citizen of Israel and a Jew.

Quote from: muman613 on April 21, 2015, 04:25:41 PM

I am sure you are aware of the halachic questions which were explored by the rabbis who supported it. Asking about my position should be obvious, I would not have entered that discussion, but there is still disagreement as to whether land for peace is ever acceptable (if and only if true peace is attainable, which is what breaks the deal for me immediately).

But are you questioning the halachic wisdom of this Torah sage? As if you know better than he? That, IMO, is chutzpah...

Can anyone produce any written finding on 'Land for Peace' by Rabbi Lichtenstein?

muman613 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 21, 2015, 07:28:02 PM »

Thank you Zelhar for providing the articles expressing his position on this topic.

muman613 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2015, 07:34:04 PM »

It seems virtually all great Torah sages today agree that Rabbi Lichtenstein was a great Torah sage.

Quote

In the rabbinical organization Zahr eulogized Rabbi Lichtnsteim and wrote that it was "one of the greatest religious Zionist rabbis and special genius controls all rooms Torah along with amazing knowledge in all the cultural treasures and world literature. Rabbi was an absolute commitment to the world Jewish law alongside moral sensitivity and humane exceptions. Rabbi was a member of four comprising one of the greatest religious Zionist rabbis and I accompanied the Zohar nascent organization. Woe to the lost ship captain. "

The first Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef, called the death of Rabbi "great loss", adding that "Rabbi Liechtenstein belongs to the remains of opinion generation of rabbis who knew no compromise on petty details of Jewish law while they sat in with them, I especially remember his support Maran's ruling my father and teacher of blessed memory (pregnant Ovadia Yosef) on the subject of raising the Falasha Jews. Subject apparently was not related to him, but still he found it necessary to support and help, of blessed memory. "

I think it would be wiser to say you do not agree with his findings but refrain from defaming him.

Zelhar · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2015, 07:54:18 PM »

We have so many really great sages, except when it comes to the practical matter of survival. Israel could collapse into the size of Lichtenstein and they will still try to bargain land for peace.

muman613 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2015, 08:01:22 PM »

Quote from: Zelhar on April 21, 2015, 07:54:18 PM

We have so many really great sages, except when it comes to the practical matter of survival. Israel could collapse into the size of Lichtenstein and they will still try to bargain land for peace.

As it becomes fully clear that there can be no peace with people who hate us I think the 'land for peace' question will be put to rest. It is sad because Jews really do want peace (despite the media portraying us as blood-hungry savages). I would agree with Pikuah Nefesh for a short term solution if it truly worked. But I envision the 'greater Israel' and know that eventually the land which we would give them would be taken back. There is no land for peace if there is no possibility of peace.

Tag-MehirTzedek · « **Reply #21 on:** April 21, 2015, 09:03:32 PM »

I remember him trashing Yigal Amir, actually saying how wrong and bad "his community" (the Religious Zionists) have become to produce someone like Yigal Amir. I have no respect for such people. Remember 1 thing- those who get "prizes" and awards and such from the government are those who espouse their views. They would never give a reward and recognition to the likes of Rav Kahane ZTL HYD because he would never be their (government's) puppet. Or other truly great Rabbanim still alive today.

Tag-MehirTzedek · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2015, 09:11:41 PM »

http://etzion.org.il/vbm/english/archive/ral1-rab.htm

After Rabin's "murder"

edu · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2015, 01:51:13 AM »

For the sake of ease I will use the Chabad translation to Shoftim (Judges) 5:23
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15813/jewish/Chapter-5.htm

Quote

'Curse you Meroz,' said the messenger of the Lord, 'curse you bitterly (you) inhabitants thereof,' because they came not to the aid of the Lord, to the aid of the Lord against the mighty.

Rashi comments:

Quote

“Curse you Meroz,”: Some say it was a star and some say he was a prominent person who was near the battle area and yet did not come.

said the messenger of the Lord: Said Barak as an agent of the Holy One.

the inhabitants thereof: Those that dwell within his four cubits. With (the blast of) four hundred horns, Barak excommunicated Meroz.

to the aid of the Lord: Speaking as though it could be done, for he who aids Israel is as if he is aiding the Divine Presence.

I think the message here is that when the Jewish people are under attack and important people have the ability to help but don't help and all the more so if they harm the ability of the Jewish people to defend themselves, this point is not to be excused despite the importance of that individual.

Yehudayaakov · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2015, 05:18:16 AM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 21, 2015, 03:44:06 PM

Yehudayaakov,

Are you familiar with the halachic questions involved with the Oslo agreement?

Lol Are there halachic questions involved with the Oslo agreement? Are you suggesting that the sages of the Torah have seated together for hours...days even months discussing about accepting the death Oslo this him the Torah scholar of immense stature is obviously a Grand of the torah!