Did Rabbi Meir Kahane recieve any support from Hasidic sects of Judaism?

[muman613]

I would like to move on...

Basically I think it is our (JTF Kahanists in their Jewish community) responsibility to bring all of the Jewish people back to Israel. We all have Messianic potential. It is our challenge to rise to the occasion and reach out to those who we feel may have a potential to turn around the game.

I find that most Jews really want to do the right thing. We should try to avoid judging harshly unless faced with a life or death situation. So maybe some Jews are not as pro-Israel as us, they have questions of moral concern or they just feel that Judaism is too much for them to keep. We cannot just cut them off (that is for Hashem to do) and forget them.

This is why I find divisive posts about the Jewish people to be Lashon Hara (even if true). Speech has a very profound impact on our fellows and when we create these divisions they are virtually impossible to repair.

Empower your Jewish neighbor. Give them hope for the redemption... This is my approach.

Sorry again for snapping at you. But I do believe that today there are Chassidic Jews (especially Chabad and Breslev) who are pro-Israel and would admit to supporting Rabbi Kahane today.

[muman613]

My problem is when the  Tzadik replaces G-d or reason and logic

I agree... Judaism essentially believes all power rests in the hands of Hashem. The Tzadik is not a replacement or anything close.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  Don't believe any Askenasi group (Hasidic or Mitnagid) officially backed him. His backers were mainly Sefardim including some Sefardi Rabbanim as well, their are video's where he is speaking with some Sefardi Rabbanim in Brooklyn (they are sitting in the background).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

R.Avigdor Miller 1990:



"Did the Gedolei HaTorah support Rabbi Meir Kahane?

And the answer is they did not support him.

But I must tell you something. Rabbi Meir Kahane was a talmid in Mesivta Chaim Berlin in my time. He was a yeshivah bochur and he was a shomer mitzvos always.

He had a fire of love the Jewish people. You have to know that.

The fact the Gedolim didn't support him was enough that we didn't support him; that's enough.

However lack of support doesn't mean that we shouldn't appreciate a  person.

There was nobody who criticized the chofshim more than Meir Kahane.

He criticised the Reformers and the Assimilationists more than anybody else, and that's why he was so hated!

I am certain that they engineeered his assassination.  It wasn't just an Arab who found a yarmulka and put it on.

I'm certain that it was the Manhattan assimilationists who were so angry at him because he was the most vitriolic in criticising them because he showed them up in such a way that there he was really a terrible embarassment for them, and they had to get rid of him.

I can't speak too much in public about this, but I am sure that his assassination was engineered. 

Therefore we are very sorry. We regret what happened to him. He was  in a certain sense an asset to us; yes. We never invited him to speak here because we have others who can speak for us if we want to hear the daas Torah. 

Nevertheless when a person has good qualities we're for him!"

Well since we know that leaders of the Deform Movement do not control or even interact with al qaeda cells, we can safely say definitively that Rabbi Miller's pet theory was absolutely nonsense.
At that time, Rabbi Miller, like most people, probably had no idea what al qaeda was.   Despite the fact this was al qaeda's first terror attack on US soil the media did not inform us of what or who they are.  It was another coverup for Islam the early days.


But speaking of gedolim and whether they supported him, yes NONE of them spoke up positively for what Rabbi Kahane was doing, either his Soviet Jewry program or his Israeli efforts.   That is the biggest condemnation of the present day charedi conception of "Daas Torah" that there could ever be.  It is in fact a direct refutation!

[eb22]

Although some Lubavitchers were a tad sympathetic on the quiet to Kahane, and 2 Satmarers actually carried his body at his funeral, Kahane in life received not a smidgen of help or acknowldgment from any Black Coats, but to their eternal shame, only opprobrium.

It wouldn't surprise me if Chabad Rabbi Shalom Dov Wolpe supported Rabbi Kahane. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

On the other hand I want to point out what I heard from a family member of Reb Yakov.   In the days when Rav Kahane was fighting for Soviet Jewry including violent protests and acts against the soviets someone asked Reb Yakov, "Don't we need to condemn what he is doing because he is violent?"  Reb Yakov replied, "God forbid, what if what he is doing will succeed?"   You don't know if it will help free the Jews or not.  Better to say nothing about it so if it works, we have not discouraged his righteous efforts, and if it fails, no one can point a finger at us that we supported violence on US soil.

I paraphrased that but that was the gist of it.

[Yehudayaakov]

On the other hand I want to point out what I heard from a family member of Reb Yakov.   In the days when Rav Kahane was fighting for Soviet Jewry including violent protests and acts against the soviets someone asked Reb Yakov, "Don't we need to condemn what he is doing because he is violent?"  Reb Yakov replied, "God forbid, what if what he is doing will succeed?"   You don't know if it will help free the Jews or not.  Better to say nothing about it so if it works, we have not discouraged his righteous efforts, and if it fails, no one can point a finger at us that we supported violence on US soil.

I paraphrased that but that was the gist of it.

there are lot Jews like that full cowardice and ready to let others Jew perish because they if they get involved what could happen? lose of priviledge and honor they so cherish them do not want to lose obiously they would have never supported Kahane but if he succeeded they would the first taking pics and congrated him!

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

On the other hand I want to point out what I heard from a family member of Reb Yakov.   In the days when Rav Kahane was fighting for Soviet Jewry including violent protests and acts against the soviets someone asked Reb Yakov, "Don't we need to condemn what he is doing because he is violent?"  Reb Yakov replied, "God forbid, what if what he is doing will succeed?"   You don't know if it will help free the Jews or not.  Better to say nothing about it so if it works, we have not discouraged his righteous efforts, and if it fails, no one can point a finger at us that we supported violence on US soil.

I paraphrased that but that was the gist of it.

 Kamenistsky?

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

But speaking of gedolim and whether they supported him, yes NONE of them spoke up positively for what Rabbi Kahane was doing, either his Soviet Jewry program or his Israeli efforts.   That is the biggest condemnation of the present day charedi conception of "Daas Torah" that there could ever be.  It is in fact a direct refutation!

 What about R' Mordechai Eliyahu? 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

there are lot Jews like that full cowardice and ready to let others Jew perish because they if they get involved what could happen? lose of priviledge and honor they so cherish them do not want to lose obiously they would have never supported Kahane but if he succeeded they would the first taking pics and congrated him!

I understand what you are describing but that is NOT what it was about for Reb Yakov.  I hope my story is not being misinterpreted that way.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What about R' Mordechai Eliyahu?

He was the only one.  But when Rabbi Miller says "the gedolim" he's not including Rav Eliyahu in that term, regrettably.  The charedim don't consider him "one of their own."  But of course anyone with common sense will realize they are employing a no true scotsman fallacy and defining as gedolim only those with certain views.

But when Rabbi Kahane was banned from knesset No one wrote anything on his behalf when there was an opportunity to provd his policies were from Torah and thereby undo the ban.

[kahaneloyalist]

Rav Eliyahu zt'l did speak up in support of the Rav zt'l after the ban. But remember the Branja was determined to get rid of the Rav zt'l. They only used the law they created as an excuse. If necessary they would have found another. They are truly Erev Rav.

[ChabadKahanist]

This is worse than loshon hora it is motzee shem ra!!!!
I know for a fact that Rabbi Kahane,ZT"L,HY"D,ZY"A spoke at many Chabad Houses!!!!

I have gone threw alot of his audio and videos..and I have yet to find him speaking at a Chabad house or any other Hasidic groups...any reason for this..or is it there anti-Zionist view of Torha..which I find is deeply flawed...Did he recieve any  financial backing from them..?..This not a Misnagdim post...I would just like to know the facts...

[ChabadKahanist]

If you want to know what Reb Yaakov,ZT"L,ZY"A said or didn't says why not ask his grandson Dov Shurin is also a Kahanist?

On the other hand I want to point out what I heard from a family member of Reb Yakov.   In the days when Rav Kahane was fighting for Soviet Jewry including violent protests and acts against the soviets someone asked Reb Yakov, "Don't we need to condemn what he is doing because he is violent?"  Reb Yakov replied, "God forbid, what if what he is doing will succeed?"   You don't know if it will help free the Jews or not.  Better to say nothing about it so if it works, we have not discouraged his righteous efforts, and if it fails, no one can point a finger at us that we supported violence on US soil.

I paraphrased that but that was the gist of it.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If you want to know what Reb Yaakov,ZT"L,ZY"A said or didn't says why not ask his grandson Dov Shurin is also a Kahanist?

The source was a reliable one from his family.  Should I consider it less reliable than Dov shurin?  Why?  If you know what Shurin claims, then post it here.

[Rashi]

This is worse than loshon hora it is motzee shem ra!!!!
I know for a fact that Rabbi Kahane,ZT"L,HY"D,ZY"A spoke at many Chabad Houses!!!!

I  apologize if this is true...Yet I have still never come across audio or video of Rabbi Meir Kahane Z”L at one..

[ChabadKahanist]

I  apologize if this is true...Yet I have still never come across audio or video of Rabbi Meir Kahane Z”L at one..

Rabbi Aron Lieberman has pictures of Rabbi Kahane speaking at his his shul Synagogue of Inverrary-Chabad in Fort Lauderdale,Florida.

[ChabadKahanist]

The source was a reliable one from his family.  Should I consider it less reliable than Dov shurin?  Why?  If you know what Shurin claims, then post it here.

Dov Shurin is also his family his grandson so that is why he is reliable.
If I run into him I'll ask him.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Dov Shurin is also his family his grandson so that is why he is reliable.
If I run into him I'll ask him.

Either way, assuming the story I heard was true (or at least to the extent I remember the details right) the take home message (which I am absolutely sure of regardless of what level of detail I might have forgotten) is that Reb Yakov was NOT against what Rabbi Kahane was doing.  Probably most people make assumptions and don't realize that was the case.

[Dr. Dan]

There is one speech Rabbi Kahane gave in Beverly Hills in front a bunch of rabbis where he spoke of a story of the Sanhedrin and Yannai Hamelech

http://www.dafyomi.co.il/sanhedrin/insites/sn-dt-019.htm

1) "YANAI THE KING, STAND!"
QUESTION: The Gemara relates the tragedy underlying the reason for why Beis Din may not judge a king of Yisrael. Yanai the king was summoned before Beis Din during the trial of one of his servants who was charged with murder. King Yanai entered the Beis Din and seated himself. The great Tana, Shimon ben Shetach, commanded, "Yanai the king, stand on your feet and let them testify about you. And know that you are not standing before us, but before the Creator of the world!"

King Yanai responded, "I will not do as you say, but only as your colleagues say." The Chachamim were frightened and were not willing to be as bold as Shimon ben Shetach, and so they hid their faces in the ground. Shimon ben Shetach said to them, "Are you masters of thoughts? Let the true Master of thoughts come and exact retribution from you!" Immediately, the angel Gavriel came and beat them against the ground and they died.

As a result of this incident, it was decreed that a king not be involved in judgment; he may not be judged or give testimony.

Why did Shimon ben Shetach demand that Yanai stand up in the first place? The Gemara in Shevuos (30b) teaches that a Talmid Chacham is not required to stand in court, and the Gemara in Avodah Zarah (19a) teaches that the honor required for a king is considered greater than the honor required for a Talmid Chacham, as a Talmid Chacham may forgo his honor while a king is not permitted to forgo his honor. Why, then, did Yanai need to stand? (TOSFOS, DH Yanai ha'Melech)

ANSWERS:
(a) The RAN answers in the name of RABEINU DAVID that there is an essential difference between the two types of honor, that of a king and that of a Talmid Chacham. The honor due to a Talmid Chacham is because of Kavod ha'Torah, honor for the Torah. The reason why one must stand in Beis Din is out of honor for the court, which is also Kavod ha'Torah. Consequently, a Talmid Chacham is not required to stand in court, since his Kavod ha'Torah comes before that of the court's. The honor of a king, in contrast, is not due to Kavod ha'Torah, but due to the awe of a king and his authority. A king thus should have to stand in Beis Din because of the honor that is due to the court. Beis Din cannot forgo that honor out of awe of the king, because the verse prohibits judges from being afraid of anyone who comes to be judged (Devarim 1:17). This also seems to be the answer of TOSFOS.

The NETZIV also follows this line of reasoning. He adds that this is apparently why Shimon ben Shetach added that "you are not standing before us, but before the Creator of the world" -- Yanai's obligation to stand in Beis Din was because of the Torah's prohibition that the judges are not to fear anyone.

The Ran adds that when Shimon ben Shetach told Yanai to stand "and let them testify about you," he did not mean that Yanai should stand while testimony was being given, because only the witnesses are required to stand at that time. Rather, he meant that Yanai should stand at the moment that the Beis Din announces its verdict.

(b) The ME'IRI and RABEINU YONAH (and an opinion cited by the Ran) answer that Yanai had seated himself in Beis Din before the Beis Din gave him permission to be seated. Even a Talmid Chacham, who is permitted to sit in Beis Din, must wait until Beis Din gives him permission to sit.

(c) The RAN concludes with a third approach. He says that Shimon ben Shetach simply made a mistake.

The MARGOLIYOS HA'YAM says that it is untenable to say that the Av Beis Din made a mistake, and he doubts that the Ran actually wrote these words.

If this answer indeed is the Ran's, then perhaps it may be explained as follows. Although Shimon ben Shetach's ruling that Yanai must stand was in error, the angel Gavriel still came and smote the rest of the members of Beis Din. Perhaps the Chachamim deserved to be punished for their lack of willingness to discuss the issue because of their fear of Yanai, and they thereby transgressed the prohibition given to judges, "Do not fear any person" (Devarim 1:17), and they caused a Chilul Hash-m. It was for that reason that they were punished, and not because they misunderstood the Halachah. (In a letter to the MISHNEH HALACHOS, someone suggests that the Chachamim were punished because Torah law is determined by the ruling of the leading scholar of that generation, even if he is in error. The Mishneh Halachos, however, refutes the proof from this Gemara.) (Y. Montrose)

Kahane likened the Rabbis in Israel who agreed with him and didn't speak to these Rabbis of the Sanhedrin who turned their head away from King Yannai.  You can be a Gadol and Tzadik, but if you don't stand up to Shimon Peres or King Yannai, you might live in this world but lose in the world thereafter.