Lisa, the greatest mod on JTF

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

You consider it to be sinning to say that Ovadia Yosef has made "mistakes"? Please. 

no, but its not good for us to judge him and bring "proof" by the quotes from the media,etc. Their are allways problems here about this issue, lets just completly stop with this, I see nothing positive coming from this.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

But we had stopped already. You continued by coming back to this thread to bash Lisa and defend the troll.

I would like to drop this too but your accusations against Lisa are unfounded and unbiblical.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I didnt know that you stopped, sorry. I didnt bash lisa I request that he be unbanned, we need more Jews who speak with Torah.

[DownwithIslam]

Lisa you made a great decision. Even when I was more active a few days back, Chakma was spewing his drek. I wanted him banned before so I am happy to hear that it was done. Lisa is a great mod.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Chaim and the other 99% of forum members will tell you he was distorting Torah. You are not going to get anywhere with this. Nobody else wants him unbanned.

[kahaneloyalist]

As I have said to Lisa in a PM most of what Chakma613 said was correct though he could have presented it in a better manner, but his statement that we dont create new ideas from our own interpretations of the Torah is 100% correct. One of the lynchpins of Judaism has always been the Mesorah, that each generation receives the Torah from the past generation, both Written and Oral it does not come from our own heart but has been passed down in an unbroken chain from Moshe Rabbenu himself.

And CF, again please do not attempt to say what is correct or incorrect in Judaism, beyond the fact that you dont know; it is not the place of non-Jews to comment upon Jewish law.

And Lisa I think you are a great moderator, but imagine how you feel when someone insults Rabbi Kahane zt'l hy'd (while I have never resorted to violence I came close once) before we speak negatively about Rabbanim whom we disagree with but many Jews follow.

Let us all remember Chakma is a Baal Teshuva, whom the Gemara Sanhedrin says is more righteous than someone who was daati from birth because he had to go against everything he had been taught to embrace the path of Torah. The fact that he loves and defends those who showed him the Derech is no vice even if we disagree with specific points of his emunah.

Chaim and the other 99% of forum members will tell you he was distorting Torah. You are not going to get anywhere with this. Nobody else wants him unbanned.

I doubt that; Chaim might disagree with him but I saw not one distortion and Chaim is extremely honest, he follows a different Gadol but he will admit Chakma613's opinion is legitimate

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

CF, again please do not attempt to say what is correct or incorrect in Judaism, beyond the fact that you dont know; it is not the place of non-Jews to comment upon Jewish law.

Show me where in the Tanach or Talmud it says this. I want some actual evidence. After all, people have argued before that the Christian Bible teaches that Jews are to be killed and that blacks are destined to forever be slaves.

[jdl4ever]

As I have said to Lisa in a PM most of what Chakma613 said was correct though he could have presented it in a better manner, but his statement that we dont create new ideas from our own interpretations of the Torah is 100% correct. One of the lynchpins of Judaism has always been the Mesorah, that each generation receives the Torah from the past generation, both Written and Oral it does not come from our own heart but has been passed down in an unbroken chain from Moshe Rabbenu himself.

Kahaneloyalist, you are usually correct but what you just wrote is absolutely wrong in saying that we can't create new ideas in the Torah and shows that you do not understand the Oral Law as your friend Chachma did not understand it.  The Oral law consists of both the Massorah and new interpretations that the Rabbis made up based on the previous Massorah, based on completely new cases that arise and based on their own deruvation.  The Oral Law did not end with the Talmud my friend, whenever me or you uncover new interpretations and idea in the Torah, we are expanding the Oral Law.  All the Rabbis made their own interpretations of the Torah based on the Massorah but they were still their unique ideas that were not passed down previously.  I have proof for this if you desire. 

[kahaneloyalist]

CF, again please do not attempt to say what is correct or incorrect in Judaism, beyond the fact that you dont know; it is not the place of non-Jews to comment upon Jewish law.

Show me where in the Tanach or Talmud it says this. I want some actual evidence. After all, people have argued before that the Christian Bible teaches that Jews are to be killed and that blacks are destined to forever be slaves.

Its straight out of Gemara Sanhedrin that non-Jews are not to pass judgement on specific points of Jewish law. They may not sit on Jewish courts or have any say in the appointment of members of the Sanhedrin.

On the other hand Goyim may comment on matters of Derech Eretz, if a Jew steals, or murders etc. (Chas V'shalom)

As I have said to Lisa in a PM most of what Chakma613 said was correct though he could have presented it in a better manner, but his statement that we dont create new ideas from our own interpretations of the Torah is 100% correct. One of the lynchpins of Judaism has always been the Mesorah, that each generation receives the Torah from the past generation, both Written and Oral it does not come from our own heart but has been passed down in an unbroken chain from Moshe Rabbenu himself.

Kahaneloyalist, you are usually correct but what you just wrote is absolutely wrong in saying that we can't create new ideas in the Torah and shows that you do not understand the Oral Law as your friend Chachma did not understand it.  The Oral law consists of both the Massorah and new interpretations that the Rabbis made up based on the previous Massorah, based on completely new cases that arise and based on their own deruvation.  The Oral Law did not end with the Talmud my friend, whenever me or you uncover new interpretations and idea in the Torah, we are expanding the Oral Law.  All the Rabbis made their own interpretations of the Torah based on the Massorah but they were still their unique ideas that were not passed down previously.  I have proof for this if you desire. 

That is correct, no one is disputing that, but the ideas even if they were to a certain degree new had a inspiration in the Mesorah I am saying that entirely new ideas without any source are nonsensical and are not compatible with Torah even if they are make sense in our own hearts.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I'm not sure of this relevance. How am I sitting on a rabbinical court?

Because I believe Chakma and Dominater96 distort Jewish law means I am sinning?

[jdl4ever]

Completely new ideas are acceptable as long as they do not contradict the Massorah.  What Lisa wrote fits into this category and it was wrong for Chachma to be very disgusting and insult Lisa's brilliant deruvation.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

JDL4ever, is it wrong for Gentiles to opine when they think someone is distorting or abusing Torah?

[jdl4ever]

JDL4ever, is it wrong for Gentiles to opine when they think someone is distorting or abusing Torah?

Well, I don't think I'm qualified to answer this so I'll just say my opinion.  I think that if a Gentile consults with a Righteous Jew like Chaim who understands the Torah and the Jewish Tradition (since Gentiles don't study the Talmud and the commentaries since it is not necessary for them) and he says that that person is abusing the Torah, then you can mock what that person says.  Personally insulting someone Orthodox I don't agree with since R' Kahane did not do this.  A reform or conservative Jew or an obvious traitor can be cursed out by a Gentile I think without consulting with anyone since it is obvious they are distorting the Torah. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Is there a version of Talmud out there, Jerusalem or Babylonian, that is tailored to those not familiar with it and written in modern English?

I really would like to get a basic familiarity with it.

Chaimfan

[jdl4ever]

There is a good English version of the Babylonian Talmud in like 71 volumes but I think it is still too hard for someone not Jewish to understand and have the patience to read just one volume since it is very intellectually demanding.  Also why would you want to study the Talmud if you aren't Jewish, it has nothing to do with you.

[Shlomo]

Is there a version of Talmud out there, Jerusalem or Babylonian, that is tailored to those not familiar with it and written in modern English?

I really would like to get a basic familiarity with it.

Chaimfan

You really need a Rabbi to study Talmud with. Imagine Einstein X 10 directed totally at the Bible. These guys are just super deep and AMAZING.

You can probably find a pretty good book at ArtScroll.com or Feldheim.com that would discuss Pirkei Avot (Ethics of Our Fathers). I've heard that some law schools teach parts from Gamarra.

I don't want to sound arrogant or pompous and tell you that you can't understand it because you aren't Jewish. There are many brilliant Gentiles who are amazing and have beautiful souls. I don't want to sound cruel or cold. I will say that you really shouldn't study it without a Rabbi to help point out parts that are difficult to understand (and once you understand... the lights come on and you go AAAHHH!).

[kahaneloyalist]

CF, non-Jews are not supposed to study Torah She Baal Peh, which includes the Talmud, that is an avera.

[Shlomo]

CF, non-Jews are not supposed to study Torah She Baal Peh, which includes the Talmud, that is an avera.

Thank you, kahaneloyalist. I don't want to give wrong information. I have a lot of compassion for gentiles that want to know more for righteous reasons. That really touches me.

[raiseyourfist]

We are not aloud to bad mouth Ovadia Yosef because he is a torah scholar....

I don't like a lot of the things he says but we are not aloud to speak lashon hora about a man who embraces the jewish faith... no matter what his opinions are about the land of israel

[newman]

Is there a simple paraphrased version of Talmud that gentiles can read so that they don't accidently cause a Jew to sin by giving a Jewish house guest non-kosher food(for example)?

[kahaneloyalist]

CF, non-Jews are not supposed to study Torah She Baal Peh, which includes the Talmud, that is an avera.

Thank you, kahaneloyalist. I don't want to give wrong information. I have a lot of compassion for gentiles that want to know more for righteous reasons. That really touches me.

Jeffguy you are truly a righteous Jew, of course we can teach the non-Jews some things, those things that relate to faith, and the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, but their are limits to what they may be taught. Of course a non-Jew who wishes to become Jewish is to be taught everything.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

also it partly has to do with the fact that we Jews have to study Torah for the purpose of doing, not just for some intellectual reason and expecially not for studying in order to argue against the Tzaddikim.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

CF, non-Jews are not supposed to study Torah She Baal Peh, which includes the Talmud, that is an avera.

Its also not advisable since a non-Jew who does so places himself in danger. (by the hand of heaven).

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I'm not sure of this relevance. How am I sitting on a rabbinical court?

Because I believe Chakma and Dominater96 distort Jewish law means I am sinning?

What ever happened to Dominater anyway?

Tzvi, do you have any idea?

no. Is he allowed to be on the forum?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

not that im calling for the banning of people, but why are people like C.F. and DWI and all the other disrespectuful people allowed to stay while they are not?