Author Topic: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?  (Read 4801 times)

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Offline jdl4ever

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Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« on: August 30, 2007, 12:37:26 AM »
Here is an interesting topic for discussion.  The origin of the self hating Jew has always puzzled me.  What makes these people lose their basic instinct of survival and turns them to hate themselves so much and try to bring the world down with them?

This is what I think are the possibilities:

1.  They are brainwashed by society and were never taught real Judaism.
2.  They are brainwashed by other self hating Jews.
3.  They are self hating because they abandon the Bible, Judaism and reject G-d, but instead of finding freedom and satisfaction, they find emptiness and loss.  So in their anger and inability to admit they were wrong, they do whatever they can to try to show the world (and try to convince themselves) how much conviction they have and how much they hate Judaism so they try to stab at their brothers and G-d as much as they could.
4.  They are just mentally insane as any other population has a percentage of mentally insane people.
5.  Other ideas?
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline EagleEye

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2007, 12:42:06 AM »
A good amount of self-hating Jews are leftist, just like self-hating people of other ethnicities.  They simply believe in multicuturalism.

Another group of self-hating Jews are persauded that nazis are right about them.  A good example would be Daniel Burros, a person of Jewish decent who favored the extermination of Jews, joined a nazi party, and made his own kkk group.

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2007, 02:41:02 AM »
FROM JEWISH TO ISRAELI SELF-HATRED:

THE PSYCHOLOGY OF POPULATIONS UNDER CHRONIC SEIGE BY KENNETH LEVIN, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL

By Kenneth Levin, Harvard Medical School
Published in: Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs Post Holocaust and Anti-Semitism  July 2, 2006


The phenomenon of Diaspora Jews embracing as truth the indictments of Jew-haters has been so commonplace that a literature on the subject emerged under the rubric "Jewish self-hatred." A similar predilection evolved in Israel, particularly among the nation's cultural elites, in the context of the Arab siege.
Segments of populations under chronic siege commonly embrace the indictments of the besiegers, however bigoted and outrageous. They hope that by doing so and reforming accordingly they can assuage the hostility of their tormenters and win relief. This has been an element of the Jewish response to anti-Semitism throughout the history of the Diaspora.
The paradigm on the level of individual psychology is the psychodynamics of abused children, who almost invariably blame themselves for their predicament, ascribe it to their being "bad," and nurture fantasies that by becoming "good" they can mollify their abusers and end their torment.
The rhetoric of the Israeli Peace Movement, its distortions of Arab aims and actions, and its indictments of Israellikewise reflected the psychological impact of chronic besiegement. The Osloprocess that the Peace Movement spawned entailed policies grounded in wishful thinking and self-delusion analogous to that of abused children. Israel's national institutions - political, educational, academic, cultural, and media-related - need to help arm the nation against the allures of Oslo-era delusions if the Oslodebacle is not to be repeated.
In recent centuries, the phenomenon of Diaspora Jews embracing as truth the indictments of Jew-haters has been so commonplace that, starting about a hundred years ago, a literature on the subject emerged in Central Europe. Some of it was written by psychologists and psychoanalysts, and its theme acquired the rubric "Jewish self-hatred." A similar predilection evolved in Israel, particularly among the nation's cultural elites, in the context of the Arab siege. Israeli novelist and essayist Aharon Megged observed in 1994, "We have witnessed...an emotional and moral identification by the majority of Israel's intelligentsia, and its print and electronic media, with people committed to our annihilation."1


Oslo: Embracing the Perspectives of the Nation's Enemies
Israel's engagement in the Oslo"peace process" likewise reflected an embrace of the perspectives of the nation's enemies. It entailed pursuing a course that had been advocated for some years by Israel's Peace Movement and that echoed indictments by Israel's besiegers regarding alleged Israeli responsibility for Arab aggression.

The Peace Movement had argued that Israel's refusal to acknowledge previous wrongdoing and make sufficient amends and concessions was what perpetuated the Arab- Israeli conflict. Hence, the rationale of Oslowas that Israelwould now win peace by providing such concessions to the PLO. Israelpursued this path even as the Palestinian leadership continued to tell its constituency that its goal remained Israel's destruction and continued to collude in a terror campaign against Israel.

For example, on the night of the famous "peace" ceremony on the White House lawn in September 1993, Yasser Arafat appeared on Jordanian television and informed Palestinians and the Arab world that they should understand Oslo as the first phase of the Plan of Phases.2 This was the strategy elaborated by the PLO in 1974 that called for gaining whatever territory could be won by negotiations and using that land as a base from which to pursue Israel's destruction.

Also, from the time of Arafat's arrival in the territories in July 1994 until May 1996 and the fall of the Labor-Meretz government that had choreographed Oslo, over 150 people were murdered in terror attacks targeting Israel. This rate of losses to terror exceeded that of any previous twenty-two month period in the nation's history. The Israeli government knew of Arafat's support for the terror campaign, his praise of the terrorists, and his exhorting of his people to follow their example, yet it responded with more concessions, as in the Oslo II agreement in the fall of 1995.


A Thesis Proved as Nonsense
Various explanations for this self-destructive course have been offered by people who initially embraced Osloand were even active in promoting it. Nissim Zvilli, a Labor MK and member of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee at the time, recalled in 2002, "I remember myself lecturing in Parisand saying that Arafat's double-talk had to be understood. That was our thesis, proved [later] as nonsense. Arafat meant every word, and we were naive."3

But "naïveté" hardly captures the self-delusions that underlay Oslo. In 1997, Haaretz columnist Ari Shavit wrote of the course forged by Israel's political elite and passionately embraced by its intellectual and cultural elites, including himself: "In the early '90's...we, the enlightened Israelis, were infected with a messianic craze.... All of a sudden, we believed that...the end of the old Middle Eastwas near. The end of history, the end of wars, the end of conflict.... We fooled ourselves with illusions. We were bedazzled into committing a collective act of messianic drunkenness."4

But while Shavit's "messianism" gives a label to Oslo-era thinking, it does not explain it. The explanation lies in the psychology of chronically besieged populations. Whether minorities enduring persistent marginalization, defamation, and attack from the surrounding society, or small states under continual siege, segments of such communities almost invariably embrace the indictments of their enemies. They hope that by reforming themselves in a manner consistent with those indictments they will win relief.


The Psychology of Chronically Abused Children
On the level of individual psychology, the paradigm is the psychology of chronically abused children. This most typically means children subjected to parental abuse. Almost invariably, such children blame themselves for their predicament. They tell themselves, "I am treated this way because I am bad, and if I become good I will be treated better."

This phenomenon is widely recognized by psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers and is most often ascribed to children's naïveté. According to this interpretation, the abusers tell their young victims that the abuse is punishment for their being "bad," and the children, in their naïveté, accept this at face value.

But children are not that naive. The victimized child of an alcoholic father or a chronically depressed, withdrawn, and irritable mother knows that he or she is being treated badly. Nevertheless, such children almost invariably choose to repress that knowledge and to believe that changes in their own behavior - behaving in a more exemplary fashion, being more attentive to the parents' needs and wishes - can change their parents' ways and win them a better life.

To comprehend the motivation for this self-delusion, consider the existential predicament of such children. They can, on the one hand, acknowledge their essential helplessness and the hopelessness of their situation. On the other, they can delude themselves, blame themselves for their victimization, and endure the guilt of that self-indictment, of perceiving themselves as "bad," but also preserve the hope that by their own action, by becoming "good," they can win relief. Children almost invariably choose to avoid hopelessness at all costs, and adults do the same.


Self-Hatred: A Specifically Jewish Pathology?
On a communal level, the same dynamic is seen again and again in populations under siege. The phenomenon of segments of the community embracing the indictments of the besiegers and seeking relief through self-criticism and self-reform recurs constantly in the history of the Jewish Diaspora.

It has been so commonplace among Jews that some have seen it as a specifically Jewish pathology, a unique Jewish self-hatred. But, again, it can be found in many other populations under chronic attack. Its particular persistence and ubiquity among Jews is essentially a reflection of the unprecedented history of the Jews as a people living under incessant siege.

The broader occurrence of people adopting the perspectives of their tormenters has been popularly recognized over the past several decades as the "Stockholm Syndrome." The sobriquet had its origin in an incident in the Swedish capital in 1973 in which a bank robbery went awry and several people were held captive by the robbers for six days in the bank's vault. The captives emerged displaying notable empathy for and emotional bonding with their captors.

Communities are, however, not entirely defenseless against the psychological corrosiveness of living under sustained attack. The major defense is communal institutions that are strong enough to have moral sway in their communities and that convey a countervailing message. This is a message of the community's being unfairly targeted, of its essential decency and integrity, of the bigotry and injustice of its attackers, of the community's ability to resist and survive the onslaught and forge a better future for itself.

In terms of the paradigm of the abused child, the equivalent of such institutions would be another adult in the child's life, a grandparent perhaps, who provides the child with a different perspective. This person gives the message that the child is not "bad." Rather, he is being unfairly victimized and the fault lies with his abusers, not with him; he deserves better and will ultimately escape his predicament and have a better future. Although such support may not serve to defend the child against further abuse, it can help protect him against the worst psychological reverberations of such abuse. Those reverberations entail continuing to pursue the tack of blaming himself and seeking to appease his abusers through self-reform, a tack that all too often persists into adulthood and dooms such children to lives of ongoing self-abasement, frustration, and misery.


The Weakening of Jewish Communal Institutions
But within the Jewish Diaspora, there was a notable weakening of communal institutions as a result of political changes that marked the emergence of the modern world and modern nation-states. This weakening left Jews even more vulnerable than they had previously been to the psychological corrosiveness of chronic attack. Indeed, so widespread was the impact of that corrosiveness that Max Nordau, the Austrian Jewish writer and early Zionist, observed in 1896, "It is the greatest triumph of anti-Semitism that it has brought the Jews to view themselves with anti- Semitic eyes."5

There is a profound truth to this on the level of Jews' sense of themselves as individuals. For example, the Jewish child subjected to constant taunts, even physical attacks, and social exclusion in the schoolyard will very often respond by questioning what is wrong with him and how he can change to win acceptance. This response is comparable to that of the child abused at home. If the Jewish child's parents and community fail to convey a strong-enough countermessage, such a response becomes virtually inevitable and will likely be carried by the child into adulthood, with the child as adult feeling himself tainted and flawed by virtue of his Jewish identity.

But Nordau could have added that if Jews saw themselves as the haters saw them, they often viewed other Jews as fitting those stereotypes even more. Thus, German Jews not infrequently viewed Polish Jews as the true and deserving butt of Jew-hatred; secularized Jews regarded religious Jews similarly; and unionized working-class Jews held comparable opinions of the Jewish bourgeoisie. Moreover, those who looked at others across the various social divides in this way, and who sought to reform those others or to separate themselves from those others in order to win themselves acceptance by the wider society, did not acknowledge that their biases reflected a pleading for gentile approval. Instead, they cast their prejudices as representing a more progressive and enlightened path.


Not a New Jewish Phenomenon
Again, this was not a new Jewish phenomenon. The twelfth-century Jewish traveler Benjamin of Tudela wrote of his visit to the Jews of Constantinople:

Among [them] there are craftsmen in silk and many merchants and many wealthy men.... They dwell in a burdensome exile. And most of the enmity comes about because of the [Jewish] tanners who make leather and fling their filthy water into the streets at the entrance to their homes, polluting the street of the Jews. And therefore the Greeks [Constantinoplewas at the time, of course, still in Byzantine hands] hate the Jews, whether good or bad, and make their yoke heavy upon them and beat them in the streets.6

The historian H. H. Ben Sasson observes of the passage:

This information certainly did not reach [Benjamin of Tudela] from the tanners; it was how wealthy Jews explained to themselves and to others the animosity of the Greeks towards the Jews. It resulted from the filthy habits of those who followed such a despicable craft, and because of them, all Jews, good and bad, suffered. In this context "good" meant the silk-maker or physician, and "bad" meant the miserable tanner, blamed as the source of this animosity.7

The besieged Jews chose to ignore the actual roots of the hostility directed against them, about which they could do little. Instead they focused their resentment on elements within the Jewish community on the other side of the social-occupational divide. They did so in the service of fantasies that "reform" of those others would radically ameliorate the community's predicament.

But this phenomenon became particularly virulent in the modern era, and it had an impact as well on the Zionist movement. Herzl conceived of the future Jewish state as a refuge for all Jews. But among the Russian socialist Zionists who came to dominate the Zionist movement, many chose to construe religious and bourgeois Jews as the true targets of anti-Semitism. They spoke and wrote of such Jews in a manner that parroted the rhetoric of the anti-Semites, and sought to construct a nation that would be socialist and secular and therefore, in their wishful thinking, immune to anti-Jewish attack.


The Practical Consequences of Bias
This bias had practical consequences. In the early 1930s, for example, David Ben-Gurion recognized the growing dangers facing European Jews and argued for a public relations campaign to pressure Britainto permit large-scale immigration to the Yishuv (the prestate Jewish community in Palestine). Many of his socialist Zionist colleagues, however, opposed him for fear that the arrival of religious and entrepreneurial Jews would undermine the creation of a New Jew - socialist and secular - and instead lead to a polity that invited anti-Semitism.

Another practical consequence can be seen in the response by some elements of the socialist Zionist camp to the Arab attacks of 1920-1921, 1929, and 1936-1939. Some chose to construe the attacks as an understandable reaction to the ways of traditional and bourgeois elements in the Yishuv. They insisted that if the Yishuv were built on purely socialist principles, the Arab working class would see the Jews as brothers and there would be no enmity.

Various voices within the socialist camp also reacted to Arab attacks by blaming Arab hostility on the supposedly misguided Zionist effort to establish a Jewish state, and they advocated Jewish abandonment of that goal. Again, those who would blame the Jews did not acknowledge that they were seeking to placate the Jews' attackers but rather cast their stance as enlightened and progressive. For example, they wrapped themselves in socialist internationalism and insisted that Jews should be more forward-looking and forswear nationalist aspirations.

A related response to the Arab assault came from another part of the Yishuv. Jews in Western Europehad, since the beginning of the modern era, confronted intense opposition to their being granted civic rights in their respective countries. A key point made by those opposing such rights was that the Jews were a separate, alien nation. In response, many Jews sought to demonstrate that they were solely a community of faith, not a nation. German Jewish reformist movements in the early nineteenth century even sought to change the liturgy to delete references to longing for Eretz Israel and Jerusalem so as to erase any suggestions of national, and not purely religious, Jewish identity and aspirations.


Buber: Justifying the Arab Aggressors
Elements of the German Jewish community in the Yishuv embraced these same predilections. They defined the proper Zionist project as the building of a Jewish cultural center, not a state, in Eretz Israel, and responded to Arab attacks in the same manner so many of them had responded to anti- Jewish indictments in Europe. They even more emphatically argued against nation-building, justified Arab aggression as a reasonable reaction to the misguided state-building of the Yishuv leadership, and viciously attacked Ben-Gurion and his pro-state associates.

Of course, they once again did not acknowledge that they were seeking to placate the Jews' attackers but rather wrapped their stance in moral self-righteousness. They insisted that Judaism had evolved beyond narrow, nationalist concerns. It was now exclusively focused on its universal message and mission as a moral force in the world, and nation-building represented a regressive, atavistic, and shameful course for the Jews.

The most prominent figure in this camp was the famous German Jewish philosopher Martin Buber. In 1929, the Grand Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, orchestrated large-scale attacks against the Jews of the Yishuv that led to, among other atrocities, the murder of more than sixty Jews in Hebron. Buber, then still in Germany, blamed the massacres on the Jews for not having been accommodating enough of Arab sensibilities and urged an amnesty for those Arabs convicted of murdering Jews.8

Buber's response to the Arab attacks of 1936-1939 (he immigrated to the Yishuv in 1938) was similar. He and many of his associates on the faculty of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem also opposed efforts to push Britainto liberalize Jewish immigration. Even in the face of the notorious Chamberlain White Paper of 1939 severely limiting immigration at such a desperate time for European Jews, the circle around Buber campaigned in support of such limits and insisted that there should be no additional Jewish immigration without Arab consent.

In an article in Haaretz in November 1939, two months after the start of World War II, Buber not only argued that the Zionist objective of a state was immoral; he also asserted that, as all nationalisms were, in his view, intrinsically and equally morally bankrupt and that Zionism was "performing the acts of Hitler in the land of Israel, for they [i.e., the Zionists] want to serve Hitler's god [i.e., nationalism] after he has been given a Hebrew name."9


The Impact of the Shoah
Such perspectives were largely marginalized by the war in Europe, the Shoah, and the establishment of Israel. The nation came together in absorbing the survivors from Europeand the Sephardi Jews fleeing the Arab states of North Africaand the Middle East, and Israelis overwhelmingly dedicated themselves to the state's survival and well-being.

But the marginalization of those perspectives sympathetic to Arab aggression and critical of the Zionist enterprise was not simply a consequence of the flow of events. It also derived from an optimism that the Arab siege would soon end and Israelwould indeed become a "normal" state. In addition, the segment of the population most receptive to anti-state rhetoric was the socialist Zionist camp. However, the nation's leadership was drawn from that camp, and many more on the Israeli Left identified with Ben- Gurion and his successors than with the anti-state circles.

But the siege did not end. Even the peace with Egyptwas followed by Egyptian reneging on the approximately two dozen provisions of the Camp Davidagreement involving normalization of commercial and cultural relations, and the government-controlled Egyptian media persisted in their anti-Israeli rhetoric and even escalated their anti- Semitic content.


Viewing the Likud as Alien Others
No less significantly, in 1977 the socialist Zionists lost their monopoly on national power and over the next fifteen years Likud either led the nation or was equal or senior partner in governments of national unity. Likud's roots lay in a merger of the party of Zeev Jabotinsky's Revisionist successors and Israel's Liberal Party (opposed to the country's socialist economy). Likud's constituency was drawn largely from the Sephardim, generally religious and entrepreneurial, and the more religious and entrepreneurial among the Ashkenazim.

Much of the socialist Zionist camp viewed the new leadership and its constituency as alien others. Many Labor Zionists now became more receptive to arguments that Arab hostility was a response to Israeli policies, that it was the control of the government by the Old Jew - the religious and the entrepreneurial - that perpetuated the Arab siege, and that if the Left would only regain power and make sufficient amends and concessions the other side would be placated and peace would be won.

The Peace Movement's interpretation of the conflict was no less divorced from reality than had been German Jews blaming eastern Jews for anti-Semitism, or secular Jews blaming the religious, or socialist Jews blaming the European Jewish bourgeoisie.

But under the conditions of the continuing Arab siege and the Likud ascendancy, it won more and more adherents on the Israeli Left. Those adherents, cowed by the persistence of the siege and wishing for its end, grasped at any seemingly positive statement from an Arab political figure to bolster their wishful thinking ignoring all countervailing evidence.

For example, the PLO's proxy representative in Jerusalem, Faisal Husseini, declared to an Arab audience in 1992, "We have not conceded and will not surrender any of the...commitments that have existed for more than 70 years....We have within our Palestinian and united Arab society the ability to deal with divided Israeli society.... We must force Israeli society to cooperate...with our Arab society and eventually to gradually dissolve the 'Zionist entity.'"10 He made other statements in the same vein.


The Peace Camp like the Abused Child
Yet Husseini was a Peace Movement favorite. Mordechai Bar-On was a founder of Peace Now and author of the most definitive history of the Peace Movement. He wrote of the period before Oslo, the time of the Husseini quote, "A new generation of Palestinian leaders was emerging.... Younger people like...Faisal Husseini.... Most of the peace groups on the Israeli side maintained contacts with these new leaders and tried to persuade Israelis that these Palestinians could be partners in negotiations."11

Bar-On also explained the failure of some Israelis to be persuaded as due to their benighted nature, their not sharing the Peace Movement's open-minded and forward-looking sophistication. He noted that the Sephardic Jewish community in Israeltended to be more distrustful of Arab intentions and added that this seemed, in surveys, to be related to educational level and level of religious traditionalism. He further observed that the less educated and more traditional segments of the Ashkenazi community were likewise more distrustful of the possibilities for genuine peace than were Israel's elites.

Bar-On concluded: "Higher learning, it is believed, exposes individuals to a wider variety of opinions, trains them in new analytical and flexible modes of thought, and enables them to relate to issues in a less emotional and more self-critical way, which leads to greater tolerance and understanding of the 'other' and of the complexity of the issues."12 This is Bar-On's rationalization for the peace camp's grasping, like the abused child, at wishful delusions that sufficient self-reform, sufficient efforts to become "good," would win relief.


New History:
Rewriting the Past of Israeland Zionism
Also resonant of the paradigm of the abused child is that adjunct to the Peace Movement, the so-called New History. The practitioners of the New History have sought to rewrite the past of Israeland the Zionist movement in a way that revealed the supposedly unfair treatment meted out to Palestinian Arabs and to other Arabs as well.

The implicit, and often explicitly acknowledged, intent of its authors has been to get Israelis to perceive Arab hostility as an understandable response to Israeli misdeeds. They encourage Israelis to see their neighbors less as irreconcilable foes bent on Israel's destruction than as people like themselves who simply want - have always simply wanted - a fair resolution of the conflict, and so to be more forthcoming, to make painful concessions, to achieve that fair resolution.

The New History is largely bogus history. As one critic has noted, what is true in it is not new and what is new in it - typically the claims most damning of Israel- is not true. One recurrent criticism directed at it by other historians is that its proponents offer a very simplistic, two-dimensional view of the Arabs.13 There is little conveyance of the complexity of decision-making by Arab leaders; rather, Arab decisions and actions are depicted as straightforward and predictable reactions to Israeli policies.

This recurrent weakness in the New History has at times been ascribed to authors' limited grasp of Arabic and, hence, limited access to the literature that would give them a fuller, more nuanced and realistic understanding of the shaping of Arab policies. But the truer explanation for the two-dimensionality of Arab decision-making in the New History is its authors' wish to see Arab behavior as simply reactions to Israeli behavior. They want, in effect, to see Israeli behavior controlling Arab behavior, just as the abused child wants to see his own behavior as controlling that of his abusive parent. Such a distortion of reality is essential to the child's fantasy that the abuse has been a response to his misbehavior and that his becoming good will inevitably elicit better parental treatment.


Not Prepared to Live in a World without Solutions
Perhaps the single example of Oslorationalizations most resonant of the psychodynamics of the abused child is a statement by Oslo's chief architect, Yossi Beilin, in 1997. Defending his Osloendeavors, Beilin declared, "I want to live in a world where the solution to an existential problem is possible.... I am simply not prepared to live in a world where [problems] are unsolvable."14

Confronted with the reality that Israelfaces problems it cannot resolve by its own actions, Beilin wished not to believe that reality and simply closed his eyes to it. He embraced the delusion that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, the other side desires what he desires and the world can be rendered what he wants it to be if only Israelis sufficiently forthcoming. In the same way the abused child, faced with a painful and insoluble existential problem, chooses to believe that he truly can solve it, that his behaving better will make his world right.

Haaretz 's Ari Shavit wrote in 2001 of the consequences of Beilin's "solution to an existential problem." Shavit pointed out that the nation was enduring "a profound existential crisis" brought about by a decision "produced and directed by...Yossi Beilin...who had Israelsign an illusory document [the Osloaccords] which undermines the foundations of its existence."


Addressing Institutional Failures
Throughout the history of the Diaspora, Jewish communities likewise suffered difficult situations becoming even worse, losses being piled on losses, because of the psychological corrosiveness of their predicament and the allure of delusional comprehensions that misread dangers, set Jew against Jew, and grievously compromised communal defenses.

As noted, in some cases the abused child is spared all the devastating consequences of his self-blame by an adult who conveys to him a different message. Strong communal institutions can at times do the same for populations under siege.

Oslowas ultimately a failure of Israel's institutions, political, educational, academic, cultural, and media-related. The Arab siege is going to continue, and if those institutional failures are not addressed the nation will inexorably once again risk its existence by chasing mirages of peace.


* * *

Notes
1. Aharon Megged, "One-Way Trip on the Highway of Self- Destruction," JerusalemPost, 17 June 1994.

2. Foreign Broadcast Service, "Near East and South Asia, Daily Report Supplement, Israel-PLO Agreement," 14 September 1993, 4-5.

3. Haaretz, 27 July 2002.

4. Haaretz, 26 December 1997.

5. Cited in Meir Ben-Horin, Max Nordau: Philosopher of Human Solidarity (New York: Conference of Jewish Social Studies, 1956), 180.

6. Cited in H. H. Ben-Sasson, "The Middle Ages," in H. H. Ben-Sasson, ed., A History of the Jewish People (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1976), 385-723, 469.

7. Ibid., 469.

8. Martin Buber, "The National Home and National Policy in Palestine" and "The Wailing Wall," in A Land for Two Peoples: Martin Buber on Jews and Arabs, ed. Paul R. Mendes-Flohr (New York: Oxford University Press, 1983), 82-91, 93-95.

9. Haaretz, 16 November 1939; cited in Yoram Hazony, The Jewish State (New York: Basic Books, 2000), 244.

10. Al-Ra'y (Jordan), 12 November 1992; cited in Ze'ev Benyamin Begin, "Years of Hope," Haaretz Magazine, 6 September 2002.

11. Mordechai Bar-On, In Pursuit of Peace (Washington, DC: United States Institute of Peace Press, 1996), 217.

12. Ibid., 165.

13. See, e.g., Robert B. Satloff, review of Benny Morris's Israel's Borders Wars, 1949-1956, in Middle Eastern Studies, October 1995, 953-57.

14. Cited in Haaretz Magazine, 7 March 1997.


* * *

Dr. Kenneth Levin is a clinical instructor of psychiatry at HarvardMedicalSchooland a Princeton-trained historian. He is the author of The OsloSyndrome: Delusions of a People under Siege (Hanover, NH: Smith & Kraus, 2005).

* * *

Other related articles:
Collective Psychological Processes in Anti-Semitism by Avner Falk (Jewish Political Studies Review 18:1-2, Spring 2006)

Joel Fishman on The Oslo Syndrome: Delusions of a People under Siege by Kenneth Levin (Jewish Political Studies Review 17:3-4, Fall 2005)


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Offline Shlomo

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2007, 02:50:48 AM »
Excellent post, newman!
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2007, 02:59:22 AM »
Excellent post, newman!

A clever academic could devote a 40 year career to the study of Jewish self-hate alone! It's that deep and complicated.

Add the relatively new phenomenon of liberal Anglo-saxon self hate and you've got a whole new branch of the human sciences!

Offline EagleEye

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Offline EagleEye

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2007, 04:59:38 PM »
My latest MSN conversation with a MAJOR self-hating Jew.
Quote
[16:49] FirstSnow: Kane
[16:49] FirstSnow: Why?
[16:49] FirstSnow: I don't get you
[16:49] FirstSnow: Judaism suck
[16:49] FirstSnow: Christianity suck
[16:49] FirstSnow: All Jew things suck

Quote
[16:42] kane123123: the jtf forum is better
[16:45] FirstSnow: Yeah right
[16:45] FirstSnow: Judisers forum

He calls himself "aryanjew" at the beginning of his email address.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 05:02:24 PM by EagleEye »

Offline qa4383

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2007, 04:32:56 PM »
I find it interesting that whenever a Jew criticizes the actions of some community members and/or Israel, they're considered to be self -hating. I do not believe in the God that is depicted in Bible and I believe that some of Israel's actions are imperialistic. Just because I don't agree with all Judaic beliefs does not mean that I hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people.
My survival instinct has been switched off because I'm not in survival mode. I am fortunate for my situation and I don't live in fear and I don't often feel threatened, by people, ideas or things.

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2007, 04:39:52 PM »
I find it interesting that whenever a Jew criticizes the actions of some community members and/or Israel, they're considered to be self -hating. I do not believe in the G-d that is depicted in Bible and I believe that some of Israel's actions are imperialistic. Just because I don't agree with all Judaic beliefs does not mean that I hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people.
My survival instinct has been switched off because I'm not in survival mode. I am fortunate for my situation and I don't live in fear and I don't often feel threatened, by people, ideas or things.

Walk through a muslim neighbourhood in Dearborn wearing a kippa and see how you feel.

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2007, 09:27:32 PM »
qa4383:  "I find it interesting that whenever a Jew criticizes the actions of some community members and/or Israel, they're considered to be self -hating..."

I don't find it the least bit interesting, until either a Jew or Gentile criticizes Rabbi Meir Kahane and / or his followers.

Once that happens, I take an extreme interest.

Offline qa4383

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2007, 02:26:46 PM »

"Walk through a muslim neighbourhood in Dearborn wearing a kippa and see how you feel."

I don't deny that there are definitely places in the world that are not safe. I'm just saying that I am fortunate that I do not live in one of those places, thus I'm not in survival mode.

"I don't find it the least bit interesting, until either a Jew or Gentile criticizes Rabbi Meir Kahane and / or his followers.
Once that happens, I take an extreme interest."

Critical thinking is extremely important. If we don't think critically, we just become sheeple.


Offline OdKahaneChai

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2007, 02:28:39 PM »
I find it interesting that whenever a Jew criticizes the actions of some community members and/or Israel, they're considered to be self -hating. I do not believe in the G-d that is depicted in Bible and I believe that some of Israel's actions are imperialistic. Just because I don't agree with all Judaic beliefs does not mean that I hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people.
My survival instinct has been switched off because I'm not in survival mode. I am fortunate for my situation and I don't live in fear and I don't often feel threatened, by people, ideas or things.

Walk through a muslim neighbourhood in Dearborn wearing a kippa and see how you feel.
I've been wanting to do that for a while, just to piss them off - but I haven't gotten the time...

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

Offline Israeli Mouse

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2007, 04:01:59 PM »
"I find it interesting that whenever a Jew criticizes the actions of some community members and/or Israel, they're considered to be self -hating. I do not believe in the G-d that is depicted in Bible and I believe that some of Israel's actions are imperialistic. Just because I don't agree with all Judaic beliefs does not mean that I hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people.
My survival instinct has been switched off because I'm not in survival mode. I am fortunate for my situation and I don't live in fear and I don't often feel threatened, by people, ideas or things."



1. Just because you criticize a Jew and Israel - which I do regularly - doesn't mean you are a self hating Jew, and anyone who thinks so is an ignoramus. A self hating Jew is a Jew that screws his own people over as in pro-Arab or becomes a member of another faith and tries to convert people to that faith and so on and so forth.
I do not hate myself nor do I hate Jews as a whole. I hate the stupidity, those who are self loathing and those who have an inferiority complex for being Jewish. To be Jewish is not something to be ashamed of it is something to be proud of, we are G-d's chosen people, to be a light on to the nations and its about time we start appreciating it and acting like it.
2. Yes some of us are extremely lucky to be living in places where we do no have to fear of being harmed but no one should be naive enough to think that it can not happen. Just as the Jews in Germany didn't think it would but did, so can it happen anywhere else but Israel. And only in an Israel where we get up and stand up for our selves, and NOT in the one we have now which our government and many of our people care for the lives of our enemies rather then he lives of our children.
3. One of my grandparents told me about when they were in the camps and there was a Jewish woman there with them whose husband was a German in the German army, whose son was in the Hitler Youth and she was still hoping that Germany would win while she was in the camps.

She along with others who were the same, our government, the left wing, liberals, and "humanitarians" are self hating Jews. Learn the difference.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 01:45:43 PM by Israeli Mouse »
"Let us not suffer from a national amnesia that causes us to forget who and what we are."

-  Rav Kahane zt''l

Offline qa4383

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2007, 04:33:03 PM »
Quote
our government, the left wing, liberals, and "humanitarians" are self hating Jews.

I am a liberal and a "humanitarian" (gasp) God forbid someone is interested in helping humanity as a whole instead of reacting to ancient tribalism.
And once again, even though I consider myself to be those things does not mean that I hate myself or my heritage. I do not suffer from inferiority nor am I arrogant enough to suffer from superiority. I am proud for what my ancestors have achieved and the legacies that they have left. However, I also realize that the Jewish people are no better and no worse than any other group of humans living on our tiny planet. Many other groups have also survived persecution, achieved great things, and have added to humanity as a whole. Every human desires the same fundamental things....nutrition, shelter, belonging, acceptance, safety, growth and love. 

This forum amazes me with the sheer amount of hatred, anger and fear that is written on it.

 

newman

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2007, 04:39:44 PM »
Quote:". However, I also realize that the Jewish people are no better and no worse than any other group of humans living on our tiny planet. "

So you think Jews are 'no better' than stinking arabs or african jungle jumpers?

You ARE a self-hater.

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2007, 05:50:18 PM »
I am a liberal and a "humanitarian" (gasp) G-d forbid someone is interested in helping humanity as a whole instead of reacting to ancient tribalism.

And once again, even though I consider myself to be those things does not mean that I hate myself or my heritage. I do not suffer from inferiority nor am I arrogant enough to suffer from superiority. I am proud for what my ancestors have achieved and the legacies that they have left. However, I also realize that the Jewish people are no better and no worse than any other group of humans living on our tiny planet.

Ok, let me ask you a serious question. Who is actually showing "ancient tribalism"? Would it be:

The West
  • builds new inventions
  • has a civilized society
  • speaks out against child and wife abuse
  • allows freedom of beliefs
  • tries to make something for the future

... or would it be ...

The Middle East
  • where they never invent anything (not ever!)
  • where they run around with ski masks shooting weapons in the air screaming for the death of entire countries
  • where they are required to beat their wives from the koran
  • where they cut off the clitoris of their daughters
  • if you don't practice their horribly backwards and violent religion you are killed in gruesome ways sometimes with you own body parts left in your mouth
  • where their idea of a future is everyone under their dictatorship control? Ever noticed that almost every muslim country is run by a vicious and cruel dictator?

... or would it be ...

Africa
  • where they never invent anything (not ever!)
  • where the violence and crime are the highest in the entire world
  • where huge segments of the population still live in huts and don't wear clothes and are actually identical to ancient tribal ancestors
  • where they ALSO cut off the clitoris of their daughters, beat their wives, and are some of the most violent muslims in the world
  • where the people are starving to death even though Africa has the highest natural resources of any country including diamonds and gold
  • where their idea of a future isn't really on the map because their too busy just trying to survive with car alarms that cut your legs off (not kidding - look it up)

I'm serious. Answer that. Who is showing "ancient tribalism"? So you are going to live in a fantasy while these people want you dead? Are you that blind? Honestly... are you so idealistic that you can't see that there are some bad people in the world? That's messed up, man. It's wrong to be so blind on purpose.

Lastly... Jewish people are no better and no worse than any other group of humans living on the planet??? Really?... so no people are any better or worse than anyone else? Seriously? You believe this? So there's not one group of people on the ENTIRE PLANET that are any better or worse in what they do, what they provide to the world, how they act, or what they decide to do to others as a whole?

You are self hating because you fail to realize how great your people actually ARE!! Geez, man. Wake up! You've been told you are no better for so long, you actually believe this crap. They told you that because they are either jealous or self-hating themselves.

Let me quote from some older posts on the forum. Read this and tell me... are the Jewish people no better and no worse than any other group of humans living on the entire planet?

Quote
Jews Are Not The Problem

Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population...

They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz.

Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat

Physics:
1990 - Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad

Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 00.02% of the world population...

They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Art hur Ko rnberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen (& Rita Levi-Montalcini)
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis

The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling and chanting and asking for revenge.

The Jews are not promoting brain washing their children in military
training camps.

The Jews are not teaching their children how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims.

The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics.

The Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.

The Jews don't have the economic strength of petroleum, nor the
possibilities to force the world's media to see "their side" of the question.

Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems.

Author Unknown

Genesis 28:14
...in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

20 Facts about Israel, the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population.

1. Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U.S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.

2. Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

3. Israel has the highest per capita ratio of scientific publications in the world by a large margin, as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

4. In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

5. Israel is ranked #2 in the world for VC funds right behind the US.

6. Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

7. Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

8. Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The per capita income in 2000 is over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

9. With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and start-ups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world (apart from the Silicon Valley).

10. With an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16s, Israel has the largest fleet of the aircraft outside of the US.

11. Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.

12. The cell phone was developed in Israel by Motorola-Israel. Motorola built its largest development center worldwide in Israel.

13. Windows NT software was developed by Microsoft-Israel.

14. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.

15. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

16. AOL's instant message program was designed by an Israeli software company.

17. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

18. On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech start-ups.

19. Israel has the largest raptor migration in the world, with hundreds of thousands of African birds of prey crossing as they fan out into Asia.

20. Twenty-four percent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees -- ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland -- and 12 percent hold advanced degrees.

..."If statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of stardust lost in the blaze of the Milky way. properly, the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world, in all the ages; and had done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?"

-Mark Twain

Read Genesis 28:14

Almighty G-d said to the Father of all Jews (12 tribes):
"Your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spead out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All the families of the earth shall bless themselves by you and your descendants"

Robert Adler - remote control
Zora Arkus-Duntov - co-designer of Corvette sports car
Herman Aron - invented the electric meter
Ralph Baer - video games console "Simon"
Lodewyk van Berken - scaif 1456 diamond polishing wheel
Emile Berliner - inventor of gramophone
Samuel Blum - co-inventor of laser eye surgery LASIK
Baruch Blumberg and Irving Millman - vaccine for Hepatitis B
Gustav Bucky - radiologist bucky grid x-ray
Joel Davidson - 100% solar powered vehicle = co-inventor 1954
Carl Djerassi, Gregory Pincus, and Frank Colton - oral contraceptive, antihistamines
Paul Eisler - inventor of printed circuit board
Gertrude Elion - anti-leukemia drugs Nobel Prize (1988) in medicine zovirax
Sam Fedida - inventor of Viewdata 1971
Joel Engel - co-inventor of cellular technology
Joseph Friedman - inventor of flexistraw
Dennis Gabor - holography Nobel Prize (1971) in physics
Uziel Gal - "Uzi" sub-machine gun
Joseph Gerber - phottoplotter phottocatter Gerber variable scale
Charles Ginsburg - video tape machine
Donald Glaser - bubble chamber Noble Prize (1960) in physics
Leopold Godowsky and Leopold Mannes - Kodachrome [citation needed]
Emanuel Goldberg - contact camera Zeiss
Sylvan Goldman - shopping cart
Peter Carl Goldmark - vinyl record
Bernard Gordon - founder of Analogic Corporation
Ruth Handler - Barbie doll
Julius Hess - incubator for premature babies the world's first nursery 1922
Basil Hirschowitz - flexible endoscope
Gabriel Iddan - video-camera-in-a-capsule (swallowable)
Theodore von Karman - father of supersonic flight
Charles Kelman - cataract surgery
Rudolf Kompfner - inventor of traveling wave tube
Arthur Korn - forerunner of the fax machine
Harold Kosoff - free piston engine & battery powered baby swing
Raymond Kurzweil - Reading Machine
Melvyn Jérémie Lafitte - inventor of non-invasive ANS monitoring
Hedy Lamarr - spread-spectrum radio technology
Edwin Land - Polaroid camera
Robert Langer - transdermal delivery systems
Jerome Lemelson - inventor 500 patents
Levi ben Gershon - inventor of Jacob's staff
Julius Lilienfeld - inventor of transistor 1920
Theodore Maiman - co-inventor of LASER
Siegfried Marcus - mobile gasoline combustion engine 1870
Hinda Miller - co-inventor of the first sports bra Jogbra
Michel Mirowski and Morton Mower - implantable cardioverter-defibrillator, or ICD
Georges Montefiore-Levi - the inventor of phosphorus bronze
Pedro Nunes - mathematician inventor of the Nonius
Egon Orowan - several inventions
Stanford Ovshinsky - amorphous solar cells
Cyril Pullin - inventor, engineer and motorcycle race driver
Jacob Rodrigues Pereira - deaf-mute language
Ron Popeil - owner of Ronco; father of infomercials (Jewish father)
Jacob Rabinow - inventor Vice President of CDC scanning and sorting machines
Johann Philipp Reis - inventor of telephone (a word that Reis coined)
Robert Rines - invention of sonogram sonar
Harold Rosen - geosynchronous satellite
Samuel Ruben - inventor of Duracell mercury batteries
Benjamin Rubin - vaccination needle
Reinhold Rudenberg - electron microscope
Nahum Salomon - manufacturer of bicycles; saccharin industry; introduced sewing machine in England
George D. Sax - invented drive-through banking and instant loans
Arthur Schawlow - co-inventor of LASER MASER Nobel Prize (1981) in physics (Jewish father)
Abraham Schreiner - cracked petroleum kerosene Boryslaw Galicia
David Schwartz - inventor of Dirigible Zeppelin
Raymond Scott - sequencer portable synthesizer
Joseph Slepian - Westinghouse Electric Corporation = ADR
Joel Spira - solid-state electronic dimmer
Leo Sternbach - invention of Valium and Librium Hoffmann-La Roche
Levi Strauss and Jacob Davis - blue jeans
Leo Szilard - co-invented nuclear fission reactor 1955),First nuclear reactor 1942,with (Enrico Fermi),Patent Electron Microscope (1931)
Max Tishler - poultry disease antibiotic synthesizing of B2
Selman Waksman - streptomycin Nobel Prize (1952) in medicine
Joseph Weber - ammonia microwave amplifier,
Paul Zoll - co-inventor of external pacemaker and monitor
Albert Michaelson - Velocity of Light
Heidrich Hertz - Electro Magnetic Waves

WHY I'M PROUD TO BE A JEW - by Bruce from New York

With war raging in the Middle East, with global terror reaching new heights, with global anti-Semitism on the rise, I thought it might be a good time to reflect on why I'm proud, more than ever, to be a Jew.

I'm proud to be a Jew because Jews don't kidnap.

I'm proud to be a Jew because Jewish education does not consist of teaching martyrdom and hatred.

I'm proud to be a Jew because my religious leaders and religious services don't whip me into a frenzy to kill others.

I'm proud to be a Jew because in the middle of a war, Jews still demonstrate and protest to protect the rights of the Arab-Israeli minority to voice their opposition to the war.

I'm proud to be a Jew because even when Israel is wrongly and falsely accused of killing innocent civilians, Jewish leaders apologize immediately for any loss of life-instead of celebrating these deaths by passing out candy and shooting celebratory gunshots into the air.

When the world accuses Israel of massacre in Jenin-when the world accuses Israel of bombing civilians on a Gaza beach-when the world accuses Israel of shooting a child cowering against a wall-when the world accuses Israel of bombing a Lebanese apartment building killing 56 civilians-when all of these accusations turn out to be totally false-to be vicious anti-Semitic lies-and when all along I knew in my heart that these stories just could not be true-and I'm later proven to be right-then I'm proud to be a Jew.

I'm proud to be a Jew because the Israeli Army is so, so good, that when it takes more than four weeks to wipe out a sophisticated enemy who has prepared six years for this war, the world criticizes the IDF for not getting the job done quickly.

I'm proud to be a Jew when my army, the Israeli army, drops leaflets and makes calls to Lebanese citizens on their cell phones to warn them to evacuate before bombing begins.

I'm proud to be a Jew when the democracies of the world talk about fighting the war on terror, but only Israel is left alone to bear the burden of eradicating Hezbollah, the proxy army of Iran and Syria.

I'm proud to be a Jew when entire Israeli towns in the north-Nahariya, Kiryat Shimona, Safed, are reduced to ghost towns due to the constant shelling, and yet not one looter has appeared to empty out the property of others.

When Israel must defend its very right to exist, when it must fight a well armed enemy representing the Islamic fascists, as President Bush has called them, when Israel must conduct this war on terror with its hands tied behind its back so as not to take an innocent life lest the media have something true to report, that it must fight this war of survival under the cloud of "disproportionality", as if thousands of Katusha rockets falling on its citizenry is somehow "proportionate"-when Israel simultaneously pushes back these threats both in the North and in the South under the added pressure of a biased media, then I'm proud to be a Jew.

I'm proud to be a Jew when the Edinburgh Scottish film festival tells an Israeli director to stay home although his film is being screened and the director says "No, I'm coming."

I'm proud to be a Jew because Mel Gibson is not a Jew.

I'm proud to be a Jew when the UN's Human Rights Commission consists of countries like Syria, Libya and Iran and Israel is not asked to join.

I'm proud to be a Jew when magician David Blaine announces his trip to Israel next week to entertain the children living in bomb shelters and tells the press he's doing it to encourage other performers to stand up for Israel and its right to defend itself.

I'm proud to be a Jew when a Russian/Israeli businessman single-handedly creates not one but two tent cities on the beach to house Israelis fleeing the North and provides shelter, bedding, food and drink, showers and bathrooms-all done without red tape in a matter of 24 hours-to house over 6,000 Israeli's, one of whom described it as a "poor man's Club Med."

I am proud to be a Jew when Israelis on the left and on the right support the government's decision to fight-when 97% of the country is united in its own defense-when Israeli's from Jerusalem give shelter to families from Haifa-when food from the Negev is donated to feed soldiers at the front-when the IDF deploys soldiers on special assignments to deliver diapers to shelters and to entertain and calm the frightened children.

I'm proud to be a Jew when the three weeks preceding Tisha B'Av reminds us of the terrible things we have endured as a people and as a nation-and yet immediately thereafter, Hashem offers us consolation, redemption and hope-plus the promise that we shall defeat our enemies, that we shall endure, that Am Yisrael Chai.

And I am proud to be a Jew because when we proclaim that G-d is on our side, we have the book to prove it.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

newman

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2007, 06:02:19 PM »
Your best post yet, Jeffguy.

Unfortunately it will cut no sway with this liberal we have on the forum.

At the end of the day, Jews and westerners are inherently evil because they are European and civilised.

Muslims and Africans are inherently noble because they are non-western and uncivilised.

This is the sick, twisted, warped, self-hating world view of the liberals. It is not based on any reason or common sense so reasonable, common sense-based arguments will do no good.

Offline Israeli Mouse

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2007, 06:31:52 PM »
"I am a liberal and a "humanitarian" (gasp) G-d forbid someone is interested in helping humanity as a whole instead of reacting to ancient tribalism.
And once again, even though I consider myself to be those things does not mean that I hate myself or my heritage. I do not suffer from inferiority nor am I arrogant enough to suffer from superiority. I am proud for what my ancestors have achieved and the legacies that they have left. However, I also realize that the Jewish people are no better and no worse than any other group of humans living on our tiny planet. Many other groups have also survived persecution, achieved great things, and have added to humanity as a whole. Every human desires the same fundamental things....nutrition, shelter, belonging, acceptance, safety, growth and love.

This forum amazes me with the sheer amount of hatred, anger and fear that is written on it. "



*Sigh* Really the stupidity of it all is beyond me. To help people, whether your people or not is not a bad thing unless you are helping you enemies. How ever I do believe in helping your own people first, if it wasn't for tribalism Jews would have vanished along time ago just as the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Babylonians, Mesopotamians, Assyrians,  along with everyone else of ancient times excluding the Jews.

But there is something that I am 99.9% sure that you will not be able to understand but I hope anyone else who reads this will understand it - at least if they have common sense they will - "Those who are merciful to the cruel are cruel to the merciful."


Yes our ancestors have done much to be proud of, sadly though how they would be spitting on you, ripping their clothing, covering their mirrors, placing ash on themselves and crying if they were to see what their descendant has become.


There was once a Goy and not just any Goy, he was the son of a Duke, and a Duke himself. The Duke fell in love with a Jewish girl who he later was told died in a fire. After much thinking and self searching he came to the conclusion he would travel to another country - Italy – and would go in search of a Jewish community there. Once he got there he after he settled he went to the Jewish community and found a Jew in the market place he who was carrying a large, heavy book, inscribed with Hebrew lettering he went up to the young man who was on his way to study at his Yeshiva and asked him for someone to speak to about Judaism. The Duke was told of two Rabbis, the first from his home town which he did not want to go back to, and another in Sweden which he decided to travel to by horse from Venice where he was staying.
Once he reached the Rav he was told of he told him he wanted to convert. The Rav stared at him for a moment and told him it would be a bad idea that he should want to a number of times and was finally told that he was mad, that no one wanted to become Jewish these days. The young duke suddenly leaped from his chair withdrawing his shining sword, startling the Rabbi.  "You see this sword?" the young duke shouted "I inherited this sword from my father's father. He received it from his great grandfather who inherited it from his father and so on. The original owner of this sword some two hundred years ago, was a Crusader! And in his will, he ordered that this sword be handed down through the family and preserved because it had shed Jewish blood for the honor of Christianity. Do you know why? Because the Jews refused to stop being Jewish! That’s why! If Jews are always so ready to have swords like these plunged into their hearts rather then to cease being Jews, then they certainly must have some extremely good reason for wanting to be Jews!"

Jews for century's have died for their beliefs, for their G-d and for what they knew was truth. And for what? Only to see their later generations leave on their own? It is a lucky thing that they are dead because it would be a really horrid thing for them to see their descendant be a traitor to his people, especially after everything they went through. And to have left on his own when they died for what they believed in after their ancestors and future generations were lucky if they only got thrown out of countries, and if they weren't they would be raped, tortured and finally slaughtered and murdered in cold blood. And again for what? I will tell you for what! FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVED IN and for what you have abandoned.

 You are a shame and a disgrace on to the people that you claim to be proud of. What is it exactly that you are proud of? Because everything they did and everything they stand for is something you are a disgrace to.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 12:31:35 PM by Israeli Mouse »
"Let us not suffer from a national amnesia that causes us to forget who and what we are."

-  Rav Kahane zt''l

Offline qa4383

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2007, 07:50:14 PM »
My goodness, the insults really do fly on this forum if somebody writes something that you people disagree with.
And you wonder where antisemitism comes from?

Look, I view people as people. I live in one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world. I have had many discussions with people from all over the world. Every single one of them has strengths and every single one of them has weaknesses. Are some weaker than others...absolutely. Are some stronger...definitely. Are the stronger ones better, in certain aspects I suppose they are; but they too have their own weaknesses to contend with.

There are two groups of people that rarely self-reflect. Jews and Blacks. If someone says otherwise or if someone mentions their weaknesses those people are considered antisemitic and/or racist. And God forbid someone from their own community says something negative...oy, the treason!

Yes, the Jews have achieved a lot, but they've also done harm. (Just like many other groups!) As humans we can flaunt our strengths as much as we want. We may do it order to compensate for our weaknesses. But at the end of the day, we need to acknowledge our weaknesses in order to learn and grow so we may become best human beings we can be.

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So you think Jews are 'no better' than stinking arabs or african jungle jumpers?
No I don't, becuase I don't suffer from superiority. Nor do I think I'm better because I know that not ALL arabs are terrorists, just like I know that not ALL Africans live in huts. It was generalizations like these against the Jews that sparked the Holocaust.

Please refrain from insulting me, it really doesn't help your cause. If you want people to buy into your belief system, you shouldn't insult their intelligence just because they disagree with you.



newman

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2007, 07:57:29 PM »
QUOTE:"Yes, the Jews have achieved a lot, but they've also done harm."

What might that be Mr self-hating, "I'm so sorry, Mr nazi, Sir" shtetl kyke?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 06:27:28 AM by newman »

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2007, 08:19:02 PM »
qa4383:  "...I live in one of the most multi-cultural cities in the world. I have had many discussions with people from all over the world. Every single one of them has strengths and every single one of them has weaknesses..."

Congratulations!

You now fully qualify as one of the cosmopolites exactly as were the Jews of Moscow USSR 60 years ago.

Funny thing; those educated elite Russian Jews considered themselves "citizens of the world" "multi-cultural" "Loyal Marxists who were far too sophisticated to burden themselves with the ancient tribal myths of their parents and grandparents".

Joseph Stalin, in a major speech, publicly accused all of them of the crime of being  bourgeois cosmopolites who were "Enemies of the Soviet State".

After which, he had them all rounded up, tortured, shot, and/or sent to slave labor camps in Siberia.

It seems, qa4383, that you already have an ongoing group history of which you must be proud!

Oh!...what am I saying?...That could never happen to someone like you!...how silly of me.

Offline qa4383

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2007, 11:24:24 PM »
your retort is so unfortunate. All you do is insult, scream and use hyperbole.  In many ways I pity you and your ilk. You're so shortsighted that you can see the environment you're creating for your kids and their kids. There is nothing self hating about me but, indeed reading most of the responses I now understand the term self hating jew. This group represents that term quite well. Only a group of self hating, insecure, and unstable individuals can be so fearful, so hateful, and so irrational that they believe their actions will have no consequences. You must indeed hate yourself and your identity to act in a way that you create an environment where your group is globally disliked. I only hope future generations escape the fate you are creating for them. Your actions and your beliefs are why more and more of our fellow humans have become so distrustful of Jews.

And by the way nice Russian story, I guess that was meant to scare. It didnt work as it wasnt based on fact. Stalin oppressed many, many peoples. What he did to the Jews pales in comparison to what he did to the Ukranians or the Chechens. Im sure all of you here are quite familiar with the Holodomor? ::) ANd just to feruther discredit your argument  have a look at the story below.



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

Stalin's Jews

We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.

Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.

newman

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2007, 11:30:16 PM »
qa4383 Quote:"We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"

This turkey is a troll.


Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2007, 12:56:07 AM »
newman observes:  "...This turkey is a troll..."

He sure as hell is...ban him!

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Self hating Jews, where do they come from?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2007, 03:21:18 AM »
your retort is so unfortunate. All you do is insult, scream and use hyperbole.  In many ways I pity you and your ilk. You're so shortsighted that you can see the environment you're creating for your kids and their kids. There is nothing self hating about me but, indeed reading most of the responses I now understand the term self hating jew. This group represents that term quite well. Only a group of self hating, insecure, and unstable individuals can be so fearful, so hateful, and so irrational that they believe their actions will have no consequences. You must indeed hate yourself and your identity to act in a way that you create an environment where your group is globally disliked. I only hope future generations escape the fate you are creating for them. Your actions and your beliefs are why more and more of our fellow humans have become so distrustful of Jews.

Excuse me, you hypocrite... all YOU do is insult. Just read your own post. We are trying to have a debate but you haven't responded to a single thing I've presented to you or answer even one of my questions... which is so typical. It's because you don't have a response.

And your ego is so puffed up with arrogance that you aren't open to new ideas or thinking. You've already decided that you are right and you know everything. You're locked into your own little perfect world where the same rules apply evenly to all people even though people are different and what works for one group of people might not work for another. You don't like the fact that your OCD and idealistic view of how things "should" be are more complicated and difficult than your "one set of rules for all because everyone is exactly the same". You don't like the idea of self defense and you can't fathom that an entire group of people might have common problems in culture, genetic makeup, religion, emotions, desires, and effort. People that spend time together become like each other. Almost every book in business says this, the Bible says it, psychology says it, but you don't like it because you are a fool who prefers your own pride over logic.

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We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish

Again, this is a complete lie and is, conveniently, some antisemetic propaganda you've embraced. Hmmm... Hitler wasn't Jewish... the Romans who tried to wipe us out weren't Jewish... Muhammad wasn't Jewish... really... come to think of it, almost every major evil person in history was... hmmm... NOT Jewish! Go figure! You don't know your history too well.

Furthermore, if you continue to say such HORRIBLE things about the Jewish people (who are SUPPOSED to be YOUR people and have done more good for the world than any other!), insult Rabbi Kahane, our forum members, and JTF, then you will be permanently banned from this forum. You, obviously, are not here to debate and reason. You are in here to "prove" something because the truth gets under you skin and eats at you. That's why you spend so much time posting and arguing with us. It really bothers you, doesn't it? You can't stand it.

Your type of ignorant thinking will get millions of people killed, G-d forbid. We care about human life and wish to protect the innocent and those who want to make the world a better place.

You have a horrible case of "beaten wife syndrome"... if only we had not spilled the coffee! You want to let evil people get away with murder and by doing nothing (by blaming the innocent), you are part of the problem and share the blood on your own hands.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim