How big are the sins of . . .

[Ari]

flirting, dressing provocatively, tatoos, body piercings, and slutty promiscious behavior.  I know that most members in our JTF forum hold moral views on these matters, but it seems to me that society at large, everyday society almost unanimously, engages in these activities without thinking twice about them.  Most people who engage in these activities do not think of themselves as having poor morals or being evil.  Instead they think others that take a stance against such activites are prudes or oddballs that don't like to have any fun in life.  Any thoughts on this subject?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

dont do them.

[Erica]

flirting, dressing provocatively, tatoos, body piercings, and slutty promiscious behavior.  I know that most members in our JTF forum hold moral views on these matters, but it seems to me that society at large, everyday society almost unanimously, engages in these activities without thinking twice about them.  Most people who engage in these activities do not think of themselves as having poor morals or being evil.  Instead they think others that take a stance against such activites are prudes or oddballs that don't like to have any fun in life.  Any thoughts on this subject?

Lets take Bill O'Reilly for example, since he feels he's the voice of society, I consider him a prude as well as a closet pervert. No, more like OVERT pervert. I once heard him say that it was socially inappropriate for a couple to hold hands walking down the street together, kiss each other in public, or even hug each other in public. He sounds like a man in an unfulfilling marriage living a sad and sorry life to me. Flirting can be healthy if you are flirting with your significant other. Dressing sexy boosts some women's self-esteem, tatoos make people stand out, body peircings also draw attention. So I guess its a matter of personal comfort and perception. If you don't like it, don't do it, but at the same time, don't stand in judgement because someone has on an outfit you wouldn't (or can't) wear.

[newman]

It's not on for Jews, obviously.

But I see nothing in the 7 laws of Noah against it.

However, common sense would tell you that it's not good to have sleaze permiate a whole society. The Victorians had the right idea. Hold decency up as a virtue but do your sinning behind closed doors.

Yes....hypocritical, but as they say, "Hypocracy is the homage vice pays to virtue".

[angryChineseKahanist]

flirting, dressing provocatively, tatoos, body piercings, and slutty promiscious behavior.
I know that most members in our JTF forum hold moral views on these matters, but it seems to me that society at large, everyday society almost unanimously, engages in these activities without thinking twice about them.
Most people who engage in these activities do not think of themselves as having poor morals or being evil.
Instead they think others that take a stance against such activites are prudes or oddballs that don't like to have any fun in life.
Any thoughts on this subject?

flirting: depends, like active teens?
dressing provocatively: needs discipline
tatoos: scrape off
body piercings: shoot (pierce head)
slutty promiscious behavior: shoot

What's wrong with flirting? Isn't that like a teen boy poking a girl?

[OdKahaneChai]

flirting, dressing provocatively, tatoos, body piercings, and slutty promiscious behavior.  I know that most members in our JTF forum hold moral views on these matters, but it seems to me that society at large, everyday society almost unanimously, engages in these activities without thinking twice about them.  Most people who engage in these activities do not think of themselves as having poor morals or being evil.  Instead they think others that take a stance against such activites are prudes or oddballs that don't like to have any fun in life.  Any thoughts on this subject?

Lets take Bill O'Reilly for example, since he feels he's the voice of society, I consider him a prude as well as a closet pervert. No, more like OVERT pervert. I once heard him say that it was socially inappropriate for a couple to hold hands walking down the street together, kiss each other in public, or even hug each other in public. He sounds like a man in an unfulfilling marriage living a sad and sorry life to me. Flirting can be healthy if you are flirting with your significant other. Dressing sexy boosts some women's self-esteem, tatoos make people stand out, body peircings also draw attention. So I guess its a matter of personal comfort and perception. If you don't like it, don't do it, but at the same time, don't stand in judgement because someone has on an outfit you wouldn't (or can't) wear.

Wait - dressing like a whore BOOSTS women's self-esteem?  How does that work?

[New Yorker]

What's the rule with tatoo's, I hear Jews aren't supposed to get them? Religious rule? Seriously, I don't know. Not that I plan on getting one either way, I think they are rediculous, when it comes to my body the policy is don't add or remove anything. 

[New Yorker]

Wait - dressing like a whore BOOSTS women's self-esteem?  How does that work?

Works like this, she dresses like a whore, lots of men give her attention, her self esteem gets boosted. But it's only temporary. I call it SWS, Stupid Woman Syndrome.
Happily, not all women are afflicted.

[Erica]

flirting, dressing provocatively, tatoos, body piercings, and slutty promiscious behavior.  I know that most members in our JTF forum hold moral views on these matters, but it seems to me that society at large, everyday society almost unanimously, engages in these activities without thinking twice about them.  Most people who engage in these activities do not think of themselves as having poor morals or being evil.  Instead they think others that take a stance against such activites are prudes or oddballs that don't like to have any fun in life.  Any thoughts on this subject?

Lets take Bill O'Reilly for example, since he feels he's the voice of society, I consider him a prude as well as a closet pervert. No, more like OVERT pervert. I once heard him say that it was socially inappropriate for a couple to hold hands walking down the street together, kiss each other in public, or even hug each other in public. He sounds like a man in an unfulfilling marriage living a sad and sorry life to me. Flirting can be healthy if you are flirting with your significant other. Dressing sexy boosts some women's self-esteem, tatoos make people stand out, body peircings also draw attention. So I guess its a matter of personal comfort and perception. If you don't like it, don't do it, but at the same time, don't stand in judgement because someone has on an outfit you wouldn't (or can't) wear.

Wait - dressing like a whore BOOSTS women's self-esteem?  How does that work?

I didn't say that dressing like a WHORE boosts their self esteem. There is a way to dress sexy without looking like a street walker. Totally like a man to assume such a thing.

[New Yorker]

So who knows about the tattoos rule? I'm curious. 

[New Yorker]

Okay, nice short concise answer that's to the point. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

A girl has to dress modestly, even if she is totally covered, she should still not dress in a way that will bring her attention and then cause men to sin G-d forbid. for example a women can not dress in red as it obviously it attracts attention.

[newman]

Imerica,

This is a Torah forum, not an UMM HMM forum. Here we go by Torah dress code, not UMM HMM dress code.

I read about this. It's a breeding instinct to try and compete for a mate.

It's a scientifically proven fact that the negro male is much more attracted to the white woman than the black. Most black pregnancies occur only as a result of the negro buck being unable to find a white breeding partner. Witness wealthy negro sporting and entertainment celebrities, what type of women do they always flaunt?.....White, of coarse!

The black woman has to dress more provacatively to try and compete with the white female competition.

[Erica]

Imerica,

This is a Torah forum, not an UMM HMM forum. Here we go by Torah dress code, not UMM HMM dress code.

There you go again.. I never used ebonics here once. And there is no umm hmm dress code. You're just being cheeky.

A woman can look sexy by putting on decent clothing.

[Erica]

A girl has to dress modestly, even if she is totally covered, she should still not dress in a way that will bring her attention and then cause men to sin G-d forbid. for example a women can not dress in red as it obviously it attracts attention.

I'm so sorry but that sounds a bit sexist...forgive me for challenging the Torah. What if she's not wearing red and someone notices that she's beautiful?

[Erica]

Women look attractive just by wearing a long skirt. Modest female dress is attractive. They don't have to dress like whores. Skirts and dresses are feminine dress so it is attractive for women to dress like women and not men. Judaism prohibits women from wearing pants.

Wow, I was kicked out of a church for wearing a pantsuit. I definately wouldn't fit in in Judaism.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Judaism prohibits women from wearing pants.

I heard a leniency allowing it, I dont want to say who said it, becuase once again their will be Rabbi bashers spewing their venom.

[OdKahaneChai]

flirting, dressing provocatively, tatoos, body piercings, and slutty promiscious behavior.  I know that most members in our JTF forum hold moral views on these matters, but it seems to me that society at large, everyday society almost unanimously, engages in these activities without thinking twice about them.  Most people who engage in these activities do not think of themselves as having poor morals or being evil.  Instead they think others that take a stance against such activites are prudes or oddballs that don't like to have any fun in life.  Any thoughts on this subject?

Lets take Bill O'Reilly for example, since he feels he's the voice of society, I consider him a prude as well as a closet pervert. No, more like OVERT pervert. I once heard him say that it was socially inappropriate for a couple to hold hands walking down the street together, kiss each other in public, or even hug each other in public. He sounds like a man in an unfulfilling marriage living a sad and sorry life to me. Flirting can be healthy if you are flirting with your significant other. Dressing sexy boosts some women's self-esteem, tatoos make people stand out, body peircings also draw attention. So I guess its a matter of personal comfort and perception. If you don't like it, don't do it, but at the same time, don't stand in judgement because someone has on an outfit you wouldn't (or can't) wear.

Wait - dressing like a whore BOOSTS women's self-esteem?  How does that work?

I didn't say that dressing like a WHORE boosts their self esteem. There is a way to dress sexy without looking like a street walker. Totally like a man to assume such a thing.

Ha, now you're sounding like a Feminazi.  And I think dressing immodestly is dressing like a whore.  It's a matter of opinion (and morals for that matter), you can't prove me wrong.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

About the pants- to make it clear-
that it has to be big pants- ones that cant and dont show the forum of the women.

[New Yorker]

Wow, I was kicked out of a church for wearing a pantsuit.

WHORE!!! 

Just kidding. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

A girl has to dress modestly, even if she is totally covered, she should still not dress in a way that will bring her attention and then cause men to sin G-d forbid. for example a women can not dress in red as it obviously it attracts attention.

I'm so sorry but that sounds a bit sexist...forgive me for challenging the Torah. What if she's not wearing red and someone notices that she's beautiful?

To clarify- a women should not be trying to grab mens attention, by dressing inapropriatly, some will say not even by making herself attract the sense of smell from men. This is expecially applicable to a married women, let her dress up and put on the best perfume at home for her man.
on dates- a women can dress good, but modestly, and the man is allowed to look at her to see if he is attracted to her, infact he has to, but that doesnt mean he should start fantisizing about her or she dressing in a way that will influence him to sin G-d forbid. 

[Erica]

flirting, dressing provocatively, tatoos, body piercings, and slutty promiscious behavior.  I know that most members in our JTF forum hold moral views on these matters, but it seems to me that society at large, everyday society almost unanimously, engages in these activities without thinking twice about them.  Most people who engage in these activities do not think of themselves as having poor morals or being evil.  Instead they think others that take a stance against such activites are prudes or oddballs that don't like to have any fun in life.  Any thoughts on this subject?

Lets take Bill O'Reilly for example, since he feels he's the voice of society, I consider him a prude as well as a closet pervert. No, more like OVERT pervert. I once heard him say that it was socially inappropriate for a couple to hold hands walking down the street together, kiss each other in public, or even hug each other in public. He sounds like a man in an unfulfilling marriage living a sad and sorry life to me. Flirting can be healthy if you are flirting with your significant other. Dressing sexy boosts some women's self-esteem, tatoos make people stand out, body peircings also draw attention. So I guess its a matter of personal comfort and perception. If you don't like it, don't do it, but at the same time, don't stand in judgement because someone has on an outfit you wouldn't (or can't) wear.

Wait - dressing like a whore BOOSTS women's self-esteem?  How does that work?

I didn't say that dressing like a WHORE boosts their self esteem. There is a way to dress sexy without looking like a street walker. Totally like a man to assume such a thing.

Ha, now you're sounding like a Feminazi.  And I think dressing immodestly is dressing like a whore.  It's a matter of opinion (and morals for that matter), you can't prove me wrong.

Actually, I can because I'm a woman. I've been married for almost 14 years and my husband thinks I look beautiful in whatever I'm wearing. Yes, ME ME ME again... its just strange to read that's all..but I can respect the religion and the Torah for what it is.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

http://www.torahanytime.com/recent_lectures.html

Click on

Rabbi Daniel Cohen (Added 8-28-07)  
Lecture Topic
Dating & Marriage - Part 1 Play
Dating & Marriage - Part 2 Play
  

Yakov and all the Jews out their watch these videos. Belive me you will understand a great deal about marriage and dating, what to do, how to be best at it, etc. It will greatly help you and give you a lot of needed understanding and skill.

[Ari]

Thanks for the links, Tzvi.  I didn't know the part about women wearing red though (mentioned in an earlier post).  Now I know why Sting preferences a red dress in the song "Roxanne."  It's a song about a prostitute and has the line "Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red dress tonight, walk the streets for money, don't you care if it's wrong or if it's right."

[raiseyourfist]

Women look attractive just by wearing a long skirt. Modest female dress is attractive. They don't have to dress like whores. Skirts and dresses are feminine dress so it is attractive for women to dress like women and not men. Judaism prohibits women from wearing pants.

Yacov Look at what Newman is saying he has a good point black men are a lot more attracted to white women than black women.... look at people like tiger woods and also rap stars like snoop dogg..

The proof speaks for itself on the matter