hello

[newman]

It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists who did so much to bring them to power, as has already happened in Algeria, Lebanon, and Iran.

That IS some consolation.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...It's a sad state of affairs if in our 'civilized' world, someone is considered evil for simply disagreeing with another. ..."

No problem by me.

You are free to go tell Fidel Castro or Robert Mugabe how much you disagree with them.

They are probably much more "civilized" than we are here.

[qa4383]

Kahane NEVER advocated wiping the arabs out. He advocated their humane relocation WITH a finacial gift! Equate THAT with the german nazis, you immoral twit.

If you read my post properly, you would of noticed I never mentioned Kahane. I was referring to what you had posted on another board. This one:

No.

But 99% of muslims are either terrorists, terrorist supporters or terrorists in waiting.

So BURN THE BLOODY LOT!!!!!

Burn the lot of them, huh? Sounds like genocide to me. Oh wait, but I'm the evil one.

It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists

Oh yes, let's take COMFORT in the deaths of all those who disagree with us. You are such a group of kind and loving people

[newman]

Kahane NEVER advocated wiping the arabs out. He advocated their humane relocation WITH a finacial gift! Equate THAT with the german nazis, you immoral twit.

If you read my post properly, you would of noticed I never mentioned Kahane. I was referring to what you had posted on another board. This one:

No.

But 99% of muslims are either terrorists, terrorist supporters or terrorists in waiting.

So BURN THE BLOODY LOT!!!!!

Burn the lot of them, huh? Sounds like genocide to me. Oh wait, but I'm the evil one.

It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists

Oh yes, let's take COMFORT in the deaths of all those who disagree with us. You are such a group of kind and loving people

But you still can't equate what I said with german nazism. I am advocating the destruction of those who have advocated MY destruction and instigated a war against the west.

The nazis muredered Jews who did NO SUCH THING.

That just shows how morally vaccuous you are!

[MarZutra]

Very good post Massuh and all others.  This fellow has no understanding about what "slavery" actually ment under Jewish Law and ancient Israel.  Totally uncomparable to any other slavery period end full stop.  More comparable to the foundations to and for all of todays real, not politically guided, human rights/civil rights.  

There is no "hatred" on this forum accept for evilness.  People should not have to "tolerate" immorality, evilness or anything of the like.  The quote is "He who comes to murder you, kill him first!"  This particular adage places forward the most moral and logical difference between Killing and Murder.  

.....  I will not insult anyone unless someone insults me .....

[HiWarp]

If someone is coming to murder your family and you murder him, preventing the slaughter of your entire family, you are definitely not hurting yourself.

I actually am hurting myself...spiritually. If somebody attacks me or my family, of course my animal instinct will take over and  I will go on the defensive, and I will do what needs to be done. But, I will not take pleasure in this, attacking him will not make me feel good.

You've stated what you would do if someone came to kill you or your family.  What would you do if they only wanted to subjugate you and have you live as a second class citizen with the threat of physical violence or murder if you did not adhere to their wishes?

[qa4383]

You've stated what you would do if someone came to kill you or your family.  What would you do if they only wanted to subjugate you and have you live as a second class citizen with the threat of physical violence or murder if you did not adhere to their wishes?

Fair enough...if someone were to come into my house and tell me how to live, I would fight back.
Having said that...I'm not going to go into somebody else's house and tell them how to live, no matter how much I disagree with them. That would be hypocritical.

My post regarding slavery was to show how moral can change over time. Once upon a time, slavery was completely acceptable. If you fail to see that, than I don't know what to say.

I fully understand the difference between killing and murder. In my opinion, both leave you spiritually desolate.

I'm sure you don't realize it, but as an outsider looking in, the mentality on this forum is just as destructive and angry as any radical Islamic forum. I am sure that if you were to peruse a radical Islamic site, you will see posts very similar to the ones that I have been reading here.

I am sorry to say, (WARNING this is going to [censored] you off, an I"m sure that the insults are going to fly)
Your way of thinking is the same as your enemies. To me, this mentality is just as dangerous as radical Islam.
It is this mentality that is going to bring about WWIII. And I think we all know how destructive this war will be if it happens.

You cannot fight fire with fire... that only makes more fire. One fights fire with water.

[HiWarp]

You've stated what you would do if someone came to kill you or your family.  What would you do if they only wanted to subjugate you and have you live as a second class citizen with the threat of physical violence or murder if you did not adhere to their wishes?

Fair enough...if someone were to come into my house and tell me how to live, I would fight back.
Having said that...I'm not going to go into somebody else's house and tell them how to live, no matter how much I disagree with them. That would be hypocritical.

My post regarding slavery was to show how moral can change over time. Once upon a time, slavery was completely acceptable. If you fail to see that, than I don't know what to say.

I fully understand the difference between killing and murder. In my opinion, both leave you spiritually desolate.

I'm sure you don't realize it, but as an outsider looking in, the mentality on this forum is just as destructive and angry as any radical Islamic forum. I am sure that if you were to peruse a radical Islamic site, you will see posts very similar to the ones that I have been reading here.

I am sorry to say, (WARNING this is going to [censored] you off, an I"m sure that the insults are going to fly)
Your way of thinking is the same as your enemies. To me, this mentality is just as dangerous as radical Islam.
It is this mentality that is going to bring about WWIII. And I think we all know how destructive this war will be if it happens.

You cannot fight fire with fire... that only makes more fire. One fights fire with water.

How would you have fought WWII?

[qa4383]

How would you have fought WWII?

Good question...I suppose fighting fire with fire does bring about momentary peace. However does it really solve anything? If it did would we be in this predicament? Wasn't WWII an offshoot of WWI? And these new war against terror...do you not think that the formation of Israel in Arab territory has anything to do with it?
(Now before you all jump down my throat...yes, I believe that there were Palestinians living there before 1948. Just becuase they were in national limbo and didn't have a flag doesn't mean that they weren't people living there.)
There's a reason why radical Islam hates the west so much and it's not just becuase they hate our freedom and it's not because they're naturally evil.

BTW HiWarp...thank you for engaging in a logical conversation with me. I appreciate not being insulted.

[qa4383]

Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'

I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.

[cjd]

Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'

I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.

How can you write something that don't exist! Whats the point!

[newman]

Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'

I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.

Are you trying to say the 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis' are trying to destroy Israel to supprt 'free speech', which BTW they DON'T have in ANY muslim country?

[HiWarp]

How would you have fought WWII?

Good question...I suppose fighting fire with fire does bring about momentary peace. However does it really solve anything? If it did would we be in this predicament? Wasn't WWII an offshoot of WWI? And these new war against terror...do you not think that the formation of Israel in Arab territory has anything to do with it?
(Now before you all jump down my throat...yes, I believe that there were PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis living there before 1948. Just becuase they were in national limbo and didn't have a flag doesn't mean that they weren't people living there.)
There's a reason why radical Islam hates the west so much and it's not just becuase they hate our freedom and it's not because they're naturally evil.

BTW HiWarp...thank you for engaging in a logical conversation with me. I appreciate not being insulted.

Why do you think that Islam hates the west?  It can't be because of the formation of Israel in 1948 because it existed prior to that.

[decimos]

mmmm i think that you need more Torah?and i say that with all respect,as for the Muslimnazis.you cannot reason with them, when they come to destroy you,you cannot live with them, when they come to take your land.and you certainly cannot forget that they hold your complete and utter destruction as a command from their womanising peadophile "prophet".no my friend,they come to spread their evil all over this earth.Kahane said "I know that elections must be limited only to those who understand that the Arabs are the deadly enemy of the Jewish state, who would bring on us a slow Auschwitz - not with gas, but with knives and hatchets." is this wrong,no it is not.he also said "There is the illusion of the world and the reality of the Torah." Again i say to you what is bad with this?..Im  a Gentile but i strive to follow the "7-laws".i would be happy to debate with you on this subject.Ofc i am no expert on Kahane or the Torah but the ppl on here have helped me understand a little more,would it hurt you to do the same?.
regards and peace.David.

[MarZutra]

Holy crap...I can't believe it. You people won't even let me write the word Pal....ian. It gets replaced with 'PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis'

I am truly appalled. What ever happened to free speech? And you wonder why they won't recognize Israel.

Firstly, If you had any factually correct knowledge and pride in your "Jewishness" you'd agree and not make this comment.  Firstly, there are no such things as a "Bolistianian Beoble", they simply do not exist, never had done so in any historical capacity and were created purely out of anti-semitic and anti-Israel reasons. 

Do you not understand or even question why there is such an attempt to re-paint history?  Such an agenda to disassociate the Jews with Israel?  The Jews and Judaism to Judea/Samaria?  You seem not to question the Arab/Muslim association to a non existant/fabricated entity of Bolistine and Bolistinian?  Was Jesus a Jew from Judea or an Arabian Islamic Bolistianin from so-called "West Bank" in Bolistine?

You seem to forget that 2000 years ago, it was Herr Hitler's former: Herr Hadrian, that created Bolistine in the direct attempt to wipe out the Jews and make Israel known, no more?  Is this not directly comparable to Hitler, the Nazis and the Holocaust?  The history shows Roman's also slaughtered the Jews by the masses in attempt to quash the rebellion and further distroy any remnant of their poeple and their nation....  There is a good story of this in the opening pages of "A Will To Survive" by John Phillips...for example..

I was the one who asked specifically for this to be practiced because I do not like Leftist anti-semites, Nazis or practicing/ devout Islamic Savages (for which you'd undertand if you read the Hadith or Koran) the title "Bolistinian" was, and IS, solely fabricated and predicated on an antisetimic lie.   You are a leftist.  Go to Wikipedia, which is hardly a bastion of "Right Wing Extremism" for example and search the specific name "Johann Von Leers".  This specific individual, for one example, will indicate to you that I/we are telling more of factually correct truths following logic and morality as our guide over a pure socio-political agenda that demands the end of religion, G-d, morality, family, culture, nation, private property etc.: Communism/Utopianism...  Go..look it up....and enjoy...

[Dexter]

"Bolistianian Beoble" 
(Who don't understand the joke :  Arabs can't pronounce the letter P, instead, they pronounce it as B)

[HiWarp]

"Bolistianian Beoble" 
(Who don't understand the joke :  Arabs can't pronounce the letter P, instead, they pronounce it as B)

AH HA!  Finally, proof that Pal-es-tinians don't actually exist.  After all, who would call themselves a name that they can't even pronounce? 

[qa4383]

How does one define a people and a nation? Is your definition of a nation the biblical one? Or is a nation defined in the context of a common people sharing a land and a culture?
If it's the latter, then there was/is a Pal-es-tine. Whether you want to admit it or not, a common people (Arabs, Muslims/Christians) lived in Pal-es-tine and created a national identity.
If you are denying that there is such a thing as a Pal-es-tinian, then you are denying that there is such a thing as an American. Americans are a common people who created a common identity and one cannot deny that there is such a thing as an American.
Even the Native Americans, prior to colonization had a culture, a very strong one. Did they have a flag?..No. But people lived there and the Europeans, with a similar mentality as you, thought they were better...more civilized. They felt that they had every right to claim what was to become North America... for the Natives were savages. In a sense I suppose they were. The natives did fight amongst themselves, and they didn't have sophisticated technology. The Europeans had stronger weapons, they built better boats.
However, do you believe what the Europeans did was moral? 200 hundred years from now, if the Native American  community became stronger and rised up against the system and fought to reclaim their land...a land that was originally theirs; would you support them? Would you willingly give up your land, because hundreds of years ago, it once belonged to someone else?
I highly doubt that you would. So why would expect anything less from a Pas-es-tian? A people you claim don't exist, even though there are millions who disagree with you.
You people can continue being delusional, believing what ever "facts" fancy you. If telling yourself that there are no such thing as Pal-es-tinians relieves your guilt for doing very similar things to what the Europeans did to the Natives...so be it.

[MassuhDGoodName]

qa4383:  "...If it's the latter, then there was/is a Pal-es-tine. Whether you want to admit it or not, a common people (Arabs, Muslims/Christians) lived in Pal-es-tine and created a national identity..."

-You repeat the standard Communist Party CCCP line very well, but it is all a lie.

-There never was an independent state, nation, or people in Eretz Yisrael after Rome exiled the Jews.

-There was only a depopulated and desolate territory area coming under one the rule of one or another various empires.  Read Mark Twain's personal travel log of his visit there.  It confirms our truth and refutes your lies.

-After the rule of the Ottoman Empire it became the area legally known as British Mandate P_les_tine.

-This British controlled area included ALL of what is today the State of Israel as well as ALL of what is today The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

-One half of Jerusalem which was ALWAYS the capital city of THE JEWS ONLY plus ALL of historically Jewish Judaea & Samaria (known to Marxists worldwide as "The West Bank" (which is supposed to refer to an imaginary land which doesn't exist....it's a term referring to the west bank of the Jordan River) WERE UNDER THE SOVEREIGN RULE OF JORDAN!...

-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, & Iraq are ALL artificial constructs devised in the decade of the 1940's out of thin air by the British & French Imperialists who ruled those areas; carving up the maps to cause division and allow Western control of oil resources.

-There was NO "P_les_ine devised as a nation by these European Imperialists.

-There was never a nation with boundaries called P-alest-ne.

-Neither was there a government by that name; nor was there any leader of the area other than Turkish or European imperialists.

-Neither does there exist a P-alest-ni-an LANGUAGE, A UNIQUE CULTURE, A WRITTEN OR ORAL HISTORY, A RELIGION, OR EVEN A UNIQUE CUISINE.

You think that a group of unlawful squatters is not going to just "get up and leave; giving the land back to its rightful owners?"

You're right only on that observation, and that is exact why the Jews fought both British Imperialists and also Arab terrorists tooth and nail and retook OUR own land by blood and by fire.

Even those you would support refute you as well as the rest of your so-called "international community":

-"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identify serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel," said Zuheir Muhsin, the head of the terrorist PLO's "military department" in a March 1977 interview with Trouw, a Dutch daily newspaper.-

Now...why don't you get busy carving up your own country to create a "Black HomeLand" for the "Nation of Islam"?....they have always claimed they are a separate nation and demanded that the U.S. Government set aside an entire region of this country to satisfy their demands...What's wrong?...don't like associating with [censored]?

[qa4383]

Now...why don't you get busy carving up your own country to create a "Black HomeLand" for the "Nation of Islam"?....they have always claimed they are a separate nation and demanded that the U.S. Government set aside an entire region of this country to satisfy their demands...What's wrong?...don't like associating with [censored]?

Oh those [censored] .. such appropriate and level headed comments. Why am I surprised that such racial epitaphs are commonplace on this site?? I'm slowly realizing that it's a waste of time to try and infuse an alternate perspective into this site as many here claim that they're not racist. My experience here indicates otherwise. Calling me a communist, a liberal, a self hater, evil or morally vacuous is just your way of avoiding answering the subject matter.  The funny thing is I am neither a communist, a self hater or any other identity tag you use to define me. You people are so fearful of another holocaust that your logic in clouded by fear. "From fear comes insecurity, from insecurity comes greed, from greed comes frustration, from frustration comes anger, and from anger comes aggression and violence leading to separation and ugliness. By freeing yourself from fear and insecurity, one has no need to attatch himself to outside objects and does not go down this negative spiral." ~Mark Forester
The insecurity and fear I see on this site is breeding more antisemitism. You can desire separation from the world, but then you can't also expect their  support.   

I will leave you with this one thought for all of you to ponder......

Israel has humiliated, marginalized and out right banished the P A L E S T I N I A N S and yet, they're still there. In fact there is more of them today then there was 10 years ago. You can keep kicking them while they're down and enclosing them in a walled Bantus tan state but, they're not going away and they're becoming more radicalized and angry by the minute. This is not a situation that anyone would want to leave behind for his kids to deal with in the future.

[kahaneloyalist]

Now...why don't you get busy carving up your own country to create a "Black HomeLand" for the "Nation of Islam"?....they have always claimed they are a separate nation and demanded that the U.S. Government set aside an entire region of this country to satisfy their demands...What's wrong?...don't like associating with [censored]?

Oh those [censored] .. such appropriate and level headed comments. Why am I surprised that such racial epitaphs are commonplace on this site?? I'm slowly realizing that it's a waste of time to try and infuse an alternate perspective into this site as many here claim that they're not racist. My experience here indicates otherwise. Calling me a communist, a liberal, a self hater, evil or morally vacuous is just your way of avoiding answering the subject matter.  The funny thing is I am neither a communist, a self hater or any other identity tag you use to define me. You people are so fearful of another holocaust that your logic in clouded by fear. "From fear comes insecurity, from insecurity comes greed, from greed comes frustration, from frustration comes anger, and from anger comes aggression and violence leading to separation and ugliness. By freeing yourself from fear and insecurity, one has no need to attatch himself to outside objects and does not go down this negative spiral." ~Mark Forester
The insecurity and fear I see on this site is breeding more antisemitism. You can desire separation from the world, but then you can't also expect their  support.  

I will leave you with this one thought for all of you to ponder......

Israel has humiliated, marginalized and out right banished the P A L E S T I N I A N S and yet, they're still there. In fact there is more of them today then there was 10 years ago. You can keep kicking them while they're down and enclosing them in a walled Bantus tan state but, they're not going away and they're becoming more radicalized and angry by the minute. This is not a situation that anyone would want to leave behind for his kids to deal with in the future.

While your final comment again shows your lack of knowledge of the situation and the effectiveness of Arab/Muslim propoganda, as it is in fact the Jews and every other people who endure the tragedy of liveing under the Muslims who are constantly humiliated and brought low, you are right, we musnt leave the Arabs occuping our country for our children. That would indeed be cruel, that is why we believe in the expulsion of ALL Arabs/Muslims from Israel, the complete liberation of our homeland, and the right of all peoples to live free of the curse of Muslim colonizers.

[qa4383]

"From fear comes insecurity, from insecurity comes greed, from greed comes frustration, from frustration comes anger, and from anger comes aggression and violence leading to separation and ugliness. By freeing yourself from fear and insecurity, one has no need to attach himself to outside objects and does not go down this negative spiral, but creates an atmosphere in which everyone you come into contact with feels this harmonious and peaceful atmosphere and responds positively to it. You create around yourself a state of peace and harmony in which you can respond freely and creatively in everything you do.
This precept gives us a clue as to how to get the best out of those we come into contact with. If we are not aggressive, almost all the people we meet will be equally non-threatening, and those who approach us with aggression will feel quite disarmed by our lack of aggressive response.

What we give out to the world returns to us, and we all know that when we are angry or aggressive, we meet rage around every corner." ~Mark Forester

I am not interested in feeling angry anymore. It is an emotion that I rarely feel, yet it has been rearing its ugly head ever since I came onto this forum.
Despite what you may think...I am extremely content. I completely acknowledge and appreciate my good fortune. I have truly been blessed with everything one can ask for. I only pray that anger and fear like yours remains a minority, within all fundamentalist groups. I am so thankful that I did not grow up with such negativity.

Having said that, I bid you all farewell and I hope that our paths do not cross in the near future.

~Beth

[MassuhDGoodName]

Beth:  "...I am not interested in feeling angry anymore. It is an emotion that I rarely feel, yet it has been rearing its ugly head ever since I came onto this forum..."

It's merely the anger welling up inside of you at the sudden realization that you've swallowed hook, line, and sinker all of the propagandistic lies the media and every kook group of international socialist "touchie-feelie" girlie-men and "she-he's" have been telling you all your life.

Knowing that we have the truth, and speak the truth, is what is angering you...the thought that our tiny minority, far outnumbered by a hostile world, actually have the truth and intend to fully act on it.

You see, Beth, the Middle East is not "the middle West", and we didn't learn about Mohammedan murderous scum from some bi-sexual professor of "political science" with a specialty in "Islamic studies" or "womyns' studies"!

We've been murdered and raped by "the religion of Piss" for quite some time now, and we have no intention of allowing it to continue.

Pass the word on to your pansy academic friends at your next "sustainable world" convention, or maybe the next time you're out burning Arab oil in your SUV on the way to your Sierra Club meeting reducing your "carbon emissions".

Oh!...and lest I forget...don't forget to go to the Dennis Kucinich speech so you can get up and ask him to "do more to stop the genocide in Darfur"!

That way you can prove that you are really, really, good...someone who really cares....about....social justice....and ....a...sustainable....community!

[MassuhDGoodName]

Beth:  "...This is not a situation that anyone would want to leave behind for his kids to deal with in the future..."

Hey, Beth!

Make sure you leave your address at your college dorm so we can send some "Nation of Islam" boogies over to "dey new HomeLand"!

You b so full of love for dem!....pretend yew in Dafur!

[MassuhDGoodName]

kahaneloyalist:  "...you are right, we musnt leave the Arabs occuping our country for our children."

Kahaneloyalist,

Please do me a favor...will you remind me when it's time to "take out the trash"?

signed,
MassuhDGoodName

p.s.--I've given much thought to my negative feelings about Bush...
Perhaps I've been too quick to judge the man, considering the fact that he has not only ordered the killing of more A-rabs than did Sodomy Hussein, but he's also been responsible for encouraging A-rabs to kill more A-rabs than Sodomy Hussein!