hello

[qa4383]

I was invited here by someone I was debating with on youtube who goes by the user name is cahanewasright. He/she asked me to join the forum because I am what most of you would consider a self-hating jew. He/she said that this forum needed "left winged" people to debate with. So here I am.
I will just start of with stating some of my beliefs:

- I believe that Kahane was very wrong. If he were born into the Islamic religion, he'd be the head of the Taliban.
- I believe that Israeli policies are detrimental to the Jewish community.
- I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil

I will be happy to further discuss my beliefs with anybody who would like to do so.

[newman]

What Israeli polivies might you be referring to?

What do you call Ted Bundy versus the Police if not 'Good versus evil'?

[ftf]

- I believe that Kahane was very wrong. If he were born into the Islamic religion, he'd be the head of the Taliban.

I doubt it, more likely he'd have left islam.

- I believe that Israeli policies are detrimental to the Jewish community.

A lot of them are, such as giving up land.

- I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil

What were the nazis if they weren't evil?

[Ehud]

Thinking that there is a "good and bad" is necessary to your own survival.  If you don't think that you are good or right, you'll be willing to let other people defeat you.  It's a truly suicidal mentality to have.

[HiWarp]

Your statement "I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil" needs clarification in order for me to be able to engage in a debate.  Do you mean that people are not born good or evil but are influenced into acting the way they do by their upbringing; that one man's good is another man's evil; that good and evil acts do not exist therefore good and evil people do not exist?  Please clarify.

[mord]

Anyone who does'nt believe in good vs evil is insane. If a group of people lets say 6 people were gang raping your mother or wife and someone came along and and stopped them. Would the one who stopped the rape of your loved one be the good or the evil

[Ehud]

To further elaborate on my point.  Let's say that theoretically and for argument's sake that there is actually no good or evil.  Let's say that good and evil are constructs we make and that there is no objective good or evil.  Even if this was to be the case, most people will not think like you.  Very few people in the world believe that there is no good or evil, and people will never come around to this belief because it is natural to believe in good and evil to make the world comprehensible to us.  Humans need to fit things into neat little categories and if we can decide what is good and evil, that helps us sleep at night.

The problem is that even though you might not believe in good or evil, most other people will, and there will be many other people who will think that YOU are evil, what YOU stand for is evil, and your entire existence is evil.  If you don't think that what you stand for is good, you will be defeated by them because you will not have a reason to fight.  Although the concept of no good or evil is acceptable on the individual level, imagine if an entire society thought that they weren't good and that there is no good or evil.  The people attempting to destroy them aren't necessarily evil, and the group that doesn't believe in good or evil doesn't have a reason to fight because they don't think that they are good or that they necessarily need to defeat the evil.  That group is calling for its own destruction.

Believing in good and evil is a survival mechanism, without it, people would simply cease to exist.

People would also cease to act.  Many actions that a human being does are driven by the fact that they think it's a good thing.  Every person gets self-worth by believing that they are good, and what they stand for is good.  That's how ideas get started, how political and economic movements are created, how countries are established, indeed, how the world operates.  That's how great inventions are created, the people creating them believe them to be good and believe them to be beneficial for mankind.  Obviously if the people believe they are doing something good, something else must necessarily be evil, because without the evil thing there would be no way to tell if what you are doing is good.  It's a necessary component to believing that what you are doing is good, to also believe that what someone else is doing is evil.

Imagine what the world would be like if everyone believed that there is no good or evil.  All progress would grind to a halt.  People are motivated to do things, they get inspired by, and create because they feel that what they are doing is good and will create good.  If you take that impetus to act away, humans would just become mindless, unmotivated drones.

If you truly believe that there is no good or evil (which I don't think is really the case) I feel sorry for you.  People get joy in their life thinking that they are doing good and that they are working towards the furtherance of good in the world.  Without that motivation, what is the purpose of life?  Why continue living if you are not good and what you are working towards is not good? 

[MarZutra]

I was invited here by someone I was debating with on youtube who goes by the user name is cahanewasright. He/she asked me to join the forum because I am what most of you would consider a self-hating jew. Most "self hating" Jews are Jews that have embraced the Stalinist ideology of "Political Correctness" disinformation over Factually Correct information and therefore have allowed themselves to become very closed minded and wilfully diluded with ignorance and molestations.He/she said that this forum needed "left winged" people to debate with. So here I am.  Good for you.  I do hope to converse with you openly and directly on this forum.  As the "Self Hating" Jews are doing a great disservice of peace but also morality and logic especially in the Geopolitical arena.
I will just start of with stating some of my beliefs:

- I believe that Kahane was very wrong. If he were born into the Islamic religion, he'd be the head of the Taliban.  Have you ever read any of his works?  I find Rabbi Kahane to be not only highly logical but a very moral individual that had amazing abilities to bring out factually based reasononings within every debate, lecture or discussion.  There is a VERY big difference between the Taliban and Kach for example which stems from a VERY big difference between Islam and Judaism.  Which one is built on "Love thy neighbor" and which one does not even have the concept written within its pages or history?
- I believe that Israeli policies are detrimental to the Jewish community.I agree with you here because Israeli policies are not based on any of the moral teachings of Judaism but are of immoral, illogical and are Socialist in nature.  I agree with you...
- I believe that there's no such thing as good vs. evil  If there is no such thing as good or evil, how would you propose any nation or society to operate efficiently let alone develop a code of laws or legal statues?  Even the Code of Hammerabi lies with the base in this concept as well Roman and all Case Law.  So if someone, G-d forbid, rapes and murders your sister would you "rationalize" the situation and blame it on, as a "scape goat", of being poor or perhaps his second cousin once removed from his father's 3rd marriage was an alchoholic....Or would you say that he CHOSE to do this vile deed (of course one must accept the idea of good and evil for it to be even considered a crime) and therefor consider his actions immoral and purely evil in its base?

I will be happy to further discuss my beliefs with anybody who would like to do so. Sounds fine to me.  Please remember to keep an open mind and cater to both logic and fact leaving out political and religous agenda and you/we shall be fine.  Welcome

PS: I was exactly like you 10 years ago.  I suggest you read Rabbi Kahane's works or listen to his lectures or debates.  One would call Rabbi Kahane a "racist" because he called the Arabs animals or dogs but neglect to place this in the light of the given situation: bombing and mass murder of Jewish children at Hebrew schools or bus bombings.  One too must ask oneself if this comment was not actually correct in its logic given the situation even further how does it compare to the ACTUAL Islamic scriptures taught in the Mosques that Jews are Apes and swine to be killed to the last?  Everything must be entertained logically, factually and in perspective.  The problem today is that mainstream media and many of the Socialist organizations do not give accurate reportings but intentially skewe their commentaries/reportings to fit a particular agenda; which in most cases is International Socialsim: Globalism...  Please feel free to contact me privately should you wish to discuss or debate openly....

[OdKahaneChai]

Please explain your opinions a bit more.  Why do you think Rav Kahane was "very wrong"?

[qa4383]

My, my...I wasn't expecting such a response.

First of all I should say that my 3rd belief "good vs evil" is not set in stone. I'm still trying to figure it out in my own mind. Because, I do think that there are certain actions that are good and certain ones that are bad.
 
I just suppose in regards to conflict I just view it more holistically, there are always two sides. Each side believes that what they are doing is right and just, and that the other side is wrong. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. So, in reality there's no way completely determine who in fact is right. People just automatically assume that their own beliefs and actions are correct.
Now if somebody were to come into my house and tell me how to live, of course I'd fight back. At the time however, I am not arrogant enough to believe that since my paradigm works for me, that it must work for everyone.
So it's really a question of morality, and morals fluctuate. What is considered acceptable today may not be acceptable 200 years from now.
So, I suppose my contention is that while I to believe that there is good and bad, it's not set in stone.

I would also like to take the time to say, that while you may consider me to be a self-hating jew, in reality I do not hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people. I just don't believe in certain aspects of Judaism.

In terms of Kahane, I went onto Kahane.org and I read some of his writings. And quite frankly, I found them rather disturbing.
I found him to be a scared, racist, and vengeful man. The reason I said "If he were born into the Islamic religion, he would be the leader of the Taliban!"is becuase to me, they have the same mentality:
"Our way is the right way, our way in under attack! We must eliminate anyone who doesn't agree with our way!!!"

To quote Kahane:
"It is a great mitzvah to take the revenge of the righteous and humble the evildoer. Whoever forgoes or rejects such an opportunity is cruel, and he denies belief in G-d."
 -A mitzvah? Are you kidding me? Well then apparently I'm cruel for believing in forgiveness.

And another quote:
"For it is only vengeance that proves that there is indeed a G-d in the world., that there is good and evil and punishment for that evil."
 - Vengeance proves that God exists? How backwards is that? All you have to do is look around to believe. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that God...the source of everything, the creator of the heavens and the earth, would truly feel a petty human emotion such as wrath and vengeance.
Not my God. My God is not some angry invisible man in the sky, looking down upon us judging and critiquing; making sure we don't break any rules or else we'll get punished.
My God is thing that we are a part of, it is life itself. It is us and we are it. And since it is just one thing, (as Abraham originally said) if I hurt another, I am ultimately hurting myself.

[MarZutra]

My, my...I wasn't expecting such a response.

First of all I should say that my 3rd belief "good vs evil" is not set in stone. I'm still trying to figure it out in my own mind. Because, I do think that there are certain actions that are good and certain ones that are bad.Can you supply an example?
 
I just suppose in regards to conflict I just view it more holistically, there are always two sides. Each side believes that what they are doing is right and just, and that the other side is wrong. Yes but which side caters to factually correct information, is logical and may include morality while the other is a purely socio-political agenda based on "politically correct" propaganda and disinformation.  A pristine example is the fact that there is no such thing as a "Pal estinian People" yet the media continually promulgates this historyless Arabian Muslim People to their ancient lands in the "West B ank" while if one looks further one sees the blatant agenda to distance any association between Jews and Israel and Judaism and Judea/Samaria.  Another example is the fact that there is not one mention of Jerusalem in the Quraan but over 800 in the Tenach.  Jerusalem has absolutely no importance whatsoever to Islam period, end, full stop.  Logically one must ask why is the world so interested in a lie that Jerusalem is the "Third Holiest City in Islam" but, even leftist Jews, can't even cater to the fact that it is the Holiest city to Judaism?One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. You might research where this adage came from and who coined it.  Purely Marxist my friend.... So, in reality there's no way completely determine who in fact is right. Sure there is.  Read the Quraan and tell me if it mentions Jerusalem even once and then read your Torah.  If you don't see the facts as they are clearly displayed and ask yourself why the media and so-called "educational" system propagates utter lies you will begin to see the political and social agendas here at work.  The fact that "Pa lestine" was never a functioning nation with any aspect of a viable entity, ever, one must logically ask how a "Nationality" and a "People" separate from any of the other Arab/Moslems from Morocco to Iraq was formed and why?People just automatically assume that their own beliefs and actions are correct. Not at all true.  If one is a closed minded ignoramus this statement holds water but if one takes the time to research both sides and researches key elements one can again see an agenda at work especially if one reads up on the basic goals and/or requirements of certain political, social, religious ideologies.  Upon educating oneself in these areas the bias within any issue jumps out.  Did not Joseph Goebbels, also afforded to Hitler, say "The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one." with similar by Stalin?  All Communist/Socialist/Nazi movements are based on politically correct propaganda....end.
Now if somebody were to come into my house and tell me how to live, of course I'd fight back. At the time however, I am not arrogant enough to believe that since my paradigm works for me, that it must work for everyone.
So it's really a question of morality, and morals fluctuate. Morals most certainly do not fluctuate there is moral and immoral the same as there is good and bad.  Socialism and all these other Leftist ideologies propagate such foolishness to replace the concrete Laws of G-d to "fluctuating" laws of man. What is considered acceptable today may not be acceptable 200 years from now. Ah, the wisdom in your words.  This most certainly applies to G-dless Humanism/Socialism/Communism ect but not to Judaism as the Laws are given and final.
So, I suppose my contention is that while I to believe that there is good and bad, it's not set in stone. Well, at least you are admitting you're a leftist/socialist etc.  This is where that particular logic stems.

I would also like to take the time to say, that while you may consider me to be a self-hating jew, in reality I do not hate myself, my heritage or the Jewish people. I just don't believe in certain aspects of Judaism. Probably because  you are unlearned on the concepts and logic of Judaism?

In terms of Kahane, I went onto Kahane.org and I read some of his writings. And quite frankly, I found them rather disturbing. Can you give any examples?  I suggest that you select one particular topic and research both sides of the coin.  For example "Global Warming".  Read all the Leftist stuff and then, for example, go to Www.CanadaFreePress.Com and read some of theirs or go to google video and watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle".  Then research the facts and see whose holds water and whose doesn't.  Who is making the statements and is he qualified or his he, like Al Gore, just an over paid elitist political whore.
I found him to be a scared, racist, and vengeful man. There is absolutely nothing racist about Rabbi Kahane, Nothing.  Sorry brother but if one looks at the realities on the ground today all over the world, you will see that Rabbi Kahane was far ahead of his time.  Switzerland, France, Holland are passing legislation to actively encourage Islamic/African emigration because of the problems of "embracing diversity" and "multiculturalism" has had on their once nice countries.The reason I said "If he were born into the Islamic religion, he would be the leader of the Taliban!"is becuase to me, they have the same mentality:
"Our way is the right way, our way in under attack! We must eliminate anyone who doesn't agree with our way!!!" Before you make such a misguided statement please read the Koran and Hadith and compare ISlamic history to Jewish History and Judaism. You are comparing apples to oranges.

To quote Kahane:
"It is a great mitzvah to take the revenge of the righteous and humble the evildoer. Whoever forgoes or rejects such an opportunity is cruel, and he denies belief in G-d."
 -A mitzvah? Are you kidding me? Well then apparently I'm cruel for believing in forgiveness. This is because you don't know Judaism.  Should you forgive some person who hates Jews and chooses to rape and murder your daughter?  Brother, in all honesty, your brain has been infected with Joseph Stalin's "Political Correctness" and Liberal ineptitudes.  You must think logically.  What the Rabbi is saying is that it is a Mitzvah to eliminate evilness from the world.  It is called Kiddush HaShem vs. Chilul HaShem.  This is logical and moral because without evilness what is left?  Open your mind brother...

And another quote:
"For it is only vengeance that proves that there is indeed a G-d in the world., that there is good and evil and punishment for that evil."  Exactly...relates to my above position.  Evil should and must be punnished.  You have a problem with this?
 - Vengeance proves that G-d exists? How backwards is that? All you have to do is look around to believe. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that G-d...the source of everything, the creator of the heavens and the earth, would truly feel a petty human emotion such as wrath and vengeance. Did he not give us free will and the laws of how to lead a moral life and also give many examples of what not to do?
Not my G-d. My G-d is not some angry invisible man in the sky, looking down upon us judging and critiquing; making sure we don't break any rules or else we'll get punished.
My G-d is thing that we are a part of, it is life itself. It is us and we are it. And since it is just one thing, (as Abraham originally said) if I hurt another, I am ultimately hurting myself...Did Abraham not smote the Egyptian that was harming the Jew?  Why did he do this?  Did he do it to eliminate Evil?  Was it a good deed to kill that evil man?  "Thou shalt not stand idly by thy brother's blood"?  Open your mind brother and look for the logic and the moral quality as to how it relates to the given position.  You are judging without understanding the depth....

[Ehud]

My G-d is thing that we are a part of, it is life itself. It is us and we are it. And since it is just one thing, (as Abraham originally said) if I hurt another, I am ultimately hurting myself.

Ok, I'm on board with what you said except this part.  I do agree with you that always in conflict, each side thinks that they are good.  Much of the time one man's good is the other man's evil.  That doesn't mean that you can't use your brain to determine who's actually evil and who's actually good.  Of course there will be some evil aspects and some good aspects to nearly everything.  The question is to what degree.  If something has 90% good and 10% evil, it's a good thing.  We live in the real world where there are no absolutes.  If something is 90% evil and 10% good, we need to label it as evil.  A situation might not necessarily be able to be framed as good vs. evil, sometimes it is evil vs. less evil. 

I just think that stopping to get as much information as possible about both sides in a conflict and coming to a decision about what is evil and what is not, is the lazy man's way out.  It's basically like saying, "yes this issue is really complicated there are so many factors to take into consideration, I don't want to think through it anymore so I'm just going to give up and say that there is no good or evil." 

It seems like it's a scientific, "objective", enlightened, or reasoned way to think, but in the end of the day it's just laziness and an inability to make a hard decision.  People who say that there is no good or evil are copping out of trying to figure a situation out, and it gives them an air of wisdom even though most of these people are just ignorant and unable to objectively weigh positive and negative criteria.

Anyway, your quote disturbed me a bit when you said "we are G-d, and he is us."  I think I might be interpreting it a bit wrong.  It seems to me to be a purely humanist stance, like "there is no G-d, we are G-d."  I hope that's not what you're trying to say.  Indeed, we are part of G-d's creation and everything around us has G-d's hand as its cause of existence but we definitely are not G-d.

Also, if you hurt evil people, you are not hurting G-d because humans have free will to do what they want.  Also, saying that hurting another person is ultimately hurting yourself is one of those "sounds nice" ideas that fails to work in the real world.  There are countless examples of how hurting another person benefits or prevents harm to yourself.  If someone is coming to murder your family and you murder him, preventing the slaughter of your entire family, you are definitely not hurting yourself.  There are countless situations where hurting someone else does not hurt you that it renders that statement as completely absurd.

[newman]

This new poster is symptomatic of the sick, amoral tide that is sweeping Israel and the west.

"There's no good & evil, no wright & wrong, it's all shades of gey, it's all relative"....!!

The moral relativism results in a complete lack of morals. These people can no longer tell the difference between the IDF and the PLO, Elliott Ness and Al Capone, Mother Theresa and Ted Bundy!

[MarZutra]

Good post ZJ and Newman.  I agree with you 100%.  The sad fact is that these Jews have embraced Socialism/ Liberalism over Judaism.  Probably the product and outcome of "politically correct" Deformed "Judaism". 

The most evil quality of these Leftist is their ability to "rationalize" any negative or evil issue into an outcome they so desire.  A staple of Dialectical Materialist philosophy.  There is no Black and White with a small grey area to be debated or ruled either way.  These Liberals and their "open mindedness" have eliminated the Black and White to be left with a mass of grey area to be "rationalized" and changed to fit the human, or State's, constanly changing "needs"....from the communist manifesto. 

So both Newman and Zev what you say is 100% correct and perhaps if this new poster thinks of it for more than 3 seconds and entertains some logic as it relates to every leftist attack on so-called "right wing" or conservative issues...he should be able to entertain logic and see the light of the lies of the left and the purpose....for those lies.

[EagleEye]

Good and evil exist, though I usually use the terms moral and immoral instead.  Moral people try to rise above the lowest parts of human nature.  Immoral people are sociopaths, with a machiavellian mentality of "the ends justify the means."  They are in the pre-conventional stage of thinking, only motivated by rewards and punishments, whereas moral people are in the post-conventional stage of thinking, having principles of right and wrong, and sticking to them even if they are not popular.

[qa4383]

Morals most certainly do not fluctuate there is moral and immoral the same as there is good and bad.

Of course morals fluctuate. Slavery was once considered to be morally acceptable, it's even accepted in some parts of the bible. "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
Do you mean to tell me that slavery is morally acceptable today? What about pre-marital sex? What about killing another? "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the 10 commandments, but we all know that that one goes out the window depending on the circumstances. What about the treatment of Handicapped people? What about the American health care system? What about polygamy?
All these are moralistic ideas that have changed over time. So, no it is not absurd to think that morals change depending on the situation.

It seems like it's a scientific, "objective", enlightened, or reasoned way to think, but in the end of the day it's just laziness and an inability to make a hard decision.  People who say that there is no good or evil are copping out of trying to figure a situation out, and it gives them an air of wisdom even though most of these people are just ignorant and unable to objectively weigh positive and negative criteria.

If it 'seems' like there's a scientific, enlightened etc. way to think...than perhaps it is. I hardly think that's looking a both sides of the same coin is ignorant and/or lazy. Ignorance would result from looking at the one side and not turning it over to see what's on the other side.

Anyway, your quote disturbed me a bit when you said "we are G-d, and he is us."  I think I might be interpreting it a bit wrong.  It seems to me to be a purely humanist stance, like "there is no G-d, we are G-d."  I hope that's not what you're trying to say.  Indeed, we are part of G-d's creation and everything around us has G-d's hand as its cause of existence but we definitely are not G-d.

No, I definitely believe in a creative force, I just don't believe that it is a separate entity from us. I don't like the God that is depicted in the bible. I find him to be cruel, angry, misogynistic, vengeful, divisive etc. Now, before you go on quoting the bible, I haven't read the whole thing becuase at first I couldn't get past Genesis...it annoyed me too much; it just didn't make any sense to me. I have since then tried to continue, but I can't get past Moses...to me, (I know this will offend many of you, I apologize ahead of time) to me, Moses is a schizophrenic, power hungry cult leader who instills the fear of God, that only he can miraculously hear, into his followers so they can be easily controlled. (once again, I apologize to many of you that I am sure I have offended)
 

If someone is coming to murder your family and you murder him, preventing the slaughter of your entire family, you are definitely not hurting yourself.

I actually am hurting myself...spiritually. If somebody attacks me or my family, of course my animal instinct will take over and  I will go on the defensive, and I will do what needs to be done. But, I will not take pleasure in this, attacking him will not make me feel good.
This is my take on forgiveness.
"I think there are many misconceptions about the practice of forgiving. Some mistakenly believe that by forgiving you are condoning or accepting a grievous act. Or that by forgiving it implies you are weak and will not stand up against those who commit such acts. Another misconception is that if you forgive, justice will be abandoned. But forgiveness is not about helplessly giving up, surrendering, avoiding justice or being weak. Forgiveness is about recognizing the terrible wrong that you hold in your heart, realizing that the wrong can be healed, and working to understand how you came to hold your anger and resentment so dearly so that you do not let it happen again. This process helps you to develop compassion for yourself and others." ~Lama Chuck Stamford

[newman]

I'm so glad qa4383 is posting here. He's a perfect example of the sick, self-hating, morally-relative, confused, faithless whimpy Jew that JTF opposes. He's a living textbook.

[qa4383]

I'm so glad qa4383 is posting here. He's a perfect example of the sick, self-hating, morally-relative, confused, faithless whimpy Jew that JTF opposes. He's a living textbook.

Please tell me where you have felt justified to insult me. If it's becuase of the Moses thing, I already apologized ahead of time. If you're going to insult me, why don't you back up your statements.

Sick...I'm assuming you mean mentally ill. I believe that I am writing somewhat coherently, am I not? And no, I don't hear voices.
Self-hating...mmm, I don't recall ever mentioning that I hate myself, in fact I believe that I've mentioned just the opposite.
morally-relative...well I'm sorry, I just don't think that slavery, polygamy and killing amongst other things are very moral.
Confused...I admitted that I am not sure about the good/vs evil argument, so I'll give you that one
faithless...no, I think I've made my beliefs quite clear...it's just not the same as yours. (scary isn't it?)
whimpy...well, if that means that I'm not jam packed full of hatred, anger, vengeance and fear...well then I suppose I am.

I am here to learn about your mindset becuase I don't understand it. I don't understand it anymore than you can understand mine. There's is so much hatred and divisiveness on this forum that it boggles my mind. I want to learn about it becuase I feel that it's people with a tribalistic mindset that is ultimately going to be one of the causes for the destruction of humanity. Just like I'm sure that you believe that people with my mindset are going to be our end doing.

So, perhaps instead of insulting me, you could learn from me just like I'm attempting to do from you!

[newman]

I'm so glad qa4383 is posting here. He's a perfect example of the sick, self-hating, morally-relative, confused, faithless whimpy Jew that JTF opposes. He's a living textbook.

Please tell me where you have felt justified to insult me. If it's becuase of the Moses thing, I already apologized ahead of time. If you're going to insult me, why don't you back up your statements.

Sick...I'm assuming you mean mentally ill. I believe that I am writing somewhat coherently, am I not? And no, I don't hear voices.
Self-hating...mmm, I don't recall ever mentioning that I hate myself, in fact I believe that I've mentioned just the opposite.
morally-relative...well I'm sorry, I just don't think that slavery, polygamy and killing amongst other things are very moral.
Confused...I admitted that I am not sure about the good/vs evil argument, so I'll give you that one
faithless...no, I think I've made my beliefs quite clear...it's just not the same as yours. (scary isn't it?)
whimpy...well, if that means that I'm not jam packed full of hatred, anger, vengeance and fear...well then I suppose I am.

I am here to learn about your mindset becuase I don't understand it. I don't understand it anymore than you can understand mine. There's is so much hatred and divisiveness on this forum that it boggles my mind. I want to learn about it becuase I feel that it's people with a tribalistic mindset that is ultimately going to be one of the causes for the destruction of humanity. Just like I'm sure that you believe that people with my mindset are going to be our end doing.

So, perhaps instead of insulting me, you could learn from me just like I'm attempting to do from you!

Every single syllable you type backs up my appraisal of you. I was just too mindful of JTF's disk space to bother quoting everything.

[qa4383]

Every single syllable you type backs up my appraisal of you.

Once again Newman....backup your statements. Or perhaps you can't because I'm speaking of some truths. If I'm not being truthful, prove me wrong.

I don't understand your way of thinking, please enlighten me.
What experiences or lessons have you had that have caused you to think the way you do?

[newman]

Every single syllable you type backs up my appraisal of you.

Once again Newman....backup your statements. Or perhaps you can't because I'm speaking of some truths. If I'm not being truthful, prove me wrong.

I don't understand your way of thinking, please enlighten me.
What experiences or lessons have you had that have caused you to think the way you do?

You have no concept of good and evil which makes you morally vaccuous.

You have pity on the cruel which makes you evil.

You think Kahane (ZT'L) was wrong for defending Jews and Israel which makes you evil.

You see Jews as no better than 'other people' which makes you stupid.

[qa4383]

You have no concept of good and evil which makes you morally vaccuous.

You have pity on the cruel which makes you evil.

You think Kahane (ZT'L) was wrong for defending Jews and Israel which makes you evil.

You see Jews as no better than 'other people' which makes you stupid.

Boy, I've never been called evil or stupid before.

Let's take a look at good and evil...according to the thesaurus.

Good = light, love, kind, admirable, blameless, charitable, ethical, honest, honorable, respectable, right, virtuous, well-behaved, worthy, altruistic, approving, charitable, considerate, friendly, giving, gracious, humane, humanitarian, kind-hearted, kindly, merciful, obliging, philanthropic, tolerant.

evil = darkness, angry, negative, bad, base, corrupt, destructive, harmful, hateful, loathsome, malicious, offensive, repulsive, revolting, sinful, spiteful, ugly, vicious, vile, wicked, wrathful, wrong, demonic,

As I mentioned before, the amount of hatred, anger and vengefulness on this forum boggles my mind. So who do you consider evil again?
Oh yeah...me. Definitely not you.

What do you want to do with all the Arabs again?... I believe that I read on another post that you wanted to 'wipe them out' or something along those lines. Isn't that what Hitler wanted to with the jews? And I'm assuming that you consider Hitler evil as well...but wait...you want to wipe out Arabs and Hitler wanted to wipe out the jews. Since Hitler had an evil ideology, then logic would dictate that you as well would have an evil ideology. But I highly doubt that you consider yourself evil, in fact I bet you consider yourself quite righteous.
Hmm...interesting.

The truth is I don't consider you evil. All I know about you is what you post on this forum and from what I've read, for what ever reason, you have a tremendous amount of hatred in your heart.

It's a sad state of affairs if in our 'civilized' world, someone is considered evil for simply disagreeing with another.

[newman]

FYI, Mr "OOOOOO, Pleeeeease don't hurt me, Mr PLO-nazi, Sir Oy Oy Oy":

Kahane NEVER advocated wiping the arabs out. He advocated their humane relocation WITH a finacial gift! Equate THAT with the german nazis, you immoral twit.

[mord]

The guy makes up things as he goes along no moral compass.He even gets what Rabbi Kahane said wrong,also he mentioned tribalism he does'nt realize everyone here is different

[kahaneloyalist]

It is one of the few points of comfort I have in this current conflict knowing that the if the Muslims ever win they will soon kill the Leftists who did so much to bring them to power, as has already happened in Algeria, Lebanon, and Iran.