FOR THOSE OF YOU IN COLLEGE RIGHT NOW

[Erica]

Its not informed if someone implies that a black hasn't graduated just because they are black. I graduated high school 15 years ago.

This is typical Erica.

You quote a statistic or observation about blacks as a whole and she responds with..."But I don't" or "But I didn't"....it's annoying but get used to it as we can't seem to explain the concept of collective versus individual.

"Yeah, but at least that would be a somewhat informed guess.  Let's face it, blacks have disproportionately high high school drop out rates.  That's just a fact." 

I was responding to the above quote. At which point I guess that it is supposed to be acceptable that whites or other non blacks assume that all blacks are high school drop outs. Yes, I went to a school where the drop out rate was incredible, but I was also one of 100 seniors in our school to graduate from the school dispite the drop out rate. Its simply not fair to lump those who succeed with those who give up.

[Ehud]

Its not informed if someone implies that a black hasn't graduated just because they are black. I graduated high school 15 years ago.

This is typical Erica.

You quote a statistic or observation about blacks as a whole and she responds with..."But I don't" or "But I didn't"....it's annoying but get used to it as we can't seem to explain the concept of collective versus individual.

Yeah, what she's doing is basically equating the statements "many blacks proportionate to their population drop out from high school" to "no black has ever graduated from high school ever"

[Ehud]

Let's just say that it's safe to assume that if you're a black person you have a much higher chance of not having graduated high school than the typical white person.  Agreed?

[Erica]

Let's just say that it's safe to assume that if you're a black person you have a much higher chance of not having graduated high school than the typical white person.  Agreed?

So it dosen't pay to even talk to a white person because always in the backs of their minds they're probably thinking...wow, I bet they didn't finish high school. My odds aren't the same as anyone's odds, but I will say this, maybe to give your post some validity, I thought about dropping out because of my family situation. Luckily I had councellors in school and teachers who cared about where I'd end up. I had a lot of outside help in deciding against becoming a statistic.

[Daniel]

Erica have you ever taught in a city school before? I wouldn't recommend it. If it's in a bad neighborhood, you'll go bananas within 6 months.

And you know this because? I actually attended school, both elementary school and high schol in the city where I grew up. Not much has changed since I was in school. Its only been 15 years for me. I'm going to teach where I'm needed. Right now I'm needed in the community where I grew up.

I know because I'm a teacher in an awful neighborhood. If you want a job let me know...I'll give you mine..

What burns me up, IZ is that you went into a nobel profession with the good intention of educating children.

Your reward is to be threatened with assault or murder every day by savages who have NO DESIRE to be educated.

That's a lie! First off, it's only a small number of students who have no desire to be educated and who cause the most behavior problems in a school. Even those few do not desire to assault or murder us. They just want us to "Quit beasting", but they rarely assault us and never express how they want us dead. I'm speaking from my experiences in working in a bad area in the south Bronx for eight years. What experiences do you have to back up your claims?

[Daniel]

I hope you don't teach them like all the other black teachers probably teach them by telling them that they're going to face racism and the reason they're going to fail is because whitey is going to put them down and how they need affirmative action to succeed.  The kids of today need to hear that if they mess up, it's their fault, and the only person who can stand in the way of their success is THEMSELVES.  Tests aren't racist, teachers don't grade based on race, so stop your damn whining, stop demanding affirmative action and hit those books and don't blame anyone else if you don't succeed.

Black teachers tell black children that they're going to face racism and that they are still responsible for succeeding in life and that the only person who can stand in the way of their successes is themselves.

[Daniel]

I hope you don't teach them like all the other black teachers probably teach them by telling them that they're going to face racism and the reason they're going to fail is because whitey is going to put them down and how they need affirmative action to succeed.  The kids of today need to hear that if they mess up, it's their fault, and the only person who can stand in the way of their success is THEMSELVES.  Tests aren't racist, teachers don't grade based on race, so stop your damn whining, stop demanding affirmative action and hit those books and don't blame anyone else if you don't succeed.

Brillianly put, Ze'ev!

If you see the film 'Lean On Me' about that GREAT educator and black gentleman 'Crazy' Joe Clark, he says exactly that to his poor, inner-city students.

For once, this is a post I agree with. There's nobody who is that extreme in my school. But I have seen and heard the black teachers and counselors in my school give the same exact message to the students.

[Daniel]

The people who support and push affirmative action and the affirmative action mentality are unwittingly creating people who think that they can't make it based on their own merits and that they need special help in order to compete with "normal" people.  How demoralizing is that?  What a horrible and offensive thing to teach people!  It's telling them that they're different than everyone else and that we should have different standards for judging them because if we were to judge them based on the same standards as everyone else they would fail.  Of course most of the affirmative action people aren't aware of how the concept of affirmative action is changing the way they think about themselves in society and they just support it because it's seemingly beneficial to them in the long run but it has disastrous effects on their psyches that they aren't even aware of.  Affirmative action is breeding a generation of people with lowered senses of self-respect who know deep down in their hearts that a significant reason why they are in the place they are currently in is because of their skin color.  Not their hard work, intelligence, but their skin color.  What an awful thing that is to realize.  Imagine if someone came up to you and told you that a part of what you worked to achieve in your life was predetermined and that you didn't actually work for it but it was given to you in an arbitrary manner.  That is a soul-destructive realization that takes away a big part of your feeling of self-worth and humanity away from you.   

The whole mentallity of which you speak was never intended to improve anybody's lot. It was designed to keep people poor and miserable and create a permanent voting base for the liberals who invented it.

Actually, it was designed to level the playing field. Whether or not this actually works is a whole other issue in itself. For many students, giving them IEPs (Individualized Education Plans), putting them in self-contained classes, giving them support services, and test modifications are very beneficial to the students. Yet there are some students that no matter how many accomodations you give them, they will not succeed or do any better on the tests either because they are so delayed or they have the potential, but refuse to apply themselves. But this applies only to a small minority of students.

But your stated intention that this was designed to make black people miserable is completely wrong and the exact opposite intention is true.

[Daniel]

The black people at my law school are affirmative action and they frankly don't belong there.  It's VERY apparent that they're not up to the level of everyone else.  Also, they always segregate themselves and only talk to each other and no one else.  The white people are always so nice to them but they CHOOSE to only congregate among themselves.  In one of my classes all the white people are sitting in the center of the room and all the blacks are off on one side of the room by themselves.  It's self-segregation and the only reason that they're doing it is because they're taught that people hate them and that they need to stick with each other or else whitey will "bring them down" when in reality most of the liberal white people are willing to bend over and take it from any of them.

Do those same white people congregate with blacks? I remember back in college, whites sat with whites, Asians with Asians and blacks with blacks because each of the ethnicities thought that the other ethnicity didn't want to really have anything to do with them. SOme self-hating blacks sat alone because they were convinced that whites would make friends with them only to pick their culture apart. Some whites thought that if they made friends with a black person that they'd walk away from the situation speaking in ebonics and dressing 'hood'. There is fear on each side. Almost like inside bullying, only no one is saying anything.

Well when everyone sits in class on the first day and the blacks all decide to go together and sit in one area, no one is stopping them from sitting wherever they want.  They choose to go sit together.  None of the white people treat any of the black people any differently, I spoke to a few of the black people and I was just as nice to them as I was to anyone else.  Whenever they see a black person they immediately have to know them, like if they see a black that they don't know they'll immediately go up to him and say hi nice to meet you, what's your name?  I am almost certain that all the black people know each other by now and it's only barely 3 weeks into school.  They don't go up to white people and act like they want to meet them.  There are whites to talk to asians, there's an Indian guy I know who talks to white people and associates with white people and also even arab Muslims who associate with white people and talk to them.  The blacks are different.  They don't seem to want to get to know anyone who isn't black.  It's sort of offensive really because when the black people are walking around it's almost impossible to even say hi to them because they completely ignore you because there's such a degree of separation between them and everyone else. 

I don't know how things are in your part of the planet. But on my side of the planet, what you state here is completely not true!

[Daniel]

The black people at my law school are affirmative action and they frankly don't belong there.  It's VERY apparent that they're not up to the level of everyone else.  Also, they always segregate themselves and only talk to each other and no one else.  The white people are always so nice to them but they CHOOSE to only congregate among themselves.  In one of my classes all the white people are sitting in the center of the room and all the blacks are off on one side of the room by themselves.  It's self-segregation and the only reason that they're doing it is because they're taught that people hate them and that they need to stick with each other or else whitey will "bring them down" when in reality most of the liberal white people are willing to bend over and take it from any of them.

Don't complain about the self-segregation. If they sat near you, you'd have to watch your wallet.

I'm not complaining about it.  I'm just saying that the "racism" and "inequality" and "segregation" are all imposed by themselves, not by anyone else.

It's imposed by both.

[Daniel]

ItalianZionist, what district do you teach in?

....dist 19

I work in dist 8.

[Daniel]

ItalianZionist, what district do you teach in?

....dist 19

Am I right in guessing that it's not just the savage kids who destroyed your love for the job, but also the Affirmative Action people put in senior posts at the school board making dumb decisions, too?

You're partly right in this statement. There are a lot of politically appointed educrats that have never taught in the school system that are put in senior posts that make absolutely horrible decisions for the school system. But I would disagree on calling them "affirmative action" people. Do you think Joel Klein, the chancelor of the NYC school system, is an affirmative action person or is he someone who was appointed by Bloomberg because of political connections? I've seen how this works in the school system. Those who are appointed to the senior posts are done so due to political connections and not due to affirmative action.

[Daniel]

newman, I am always amazed at your ability to so thoroughly understand the situation here in America even though you're on the other side of the globe in Australia.  You not only obviously care so much about America, but you have an intimate knowledge about so many things in America that it is a continuous source of surprise for me.  You have a great amount of common sense and intuition.  There are people who are LIVING IN THE SITUATION, but even they don't understand what's going on, but you are across the world and you have your hand on the pulse of what's going on here.  Goes to show that everyone with a brain can see what's going on, no matter where he is, and the people who are brainwashed and steeped in idiocy will never be able to recognize what's going on even if they're directly involved in it, I think it's both.

Thankyou, Ze'ev

I also have a 10th grade education. But a man who can read is a man who can educate himself. The trick is simple:

Once you eliminate all the liberal,PC BS you have a clear mind. Fill it with information instead of football, gossip, soap operas and other baloney and HEY PRESTO.........you get some knowledge.

Sounds like you're the real schvartze here then.

[Daniel]

Newman, don't you think that not further educating black youths that the country will go even more into social debt?

That's an excellent point, Erica. It's a hell of a lot more expensive to put them on welfare and/or in prison than it is to educate them early on, both financially as well as morally.

[Daniel]

I think newman was saying that it only takes a 10th grade education in order to see things in the correct way.  I don't think he was necessarily saying that HE had a 10th grade education.

No, I actually do have a 10th grade education.

The other post Erica is referring to was written by an american in general terms and was not about ME getting into a college. That part went over her head (as do a lot of things).

Oh, woah, tell us the story behind that, if you would be so kind?  Namely, how does such a brilliant person only have a 10th grade education.  Was it because you realized it was all bogus and you didn't need it?  I know there is a similar phenomenon among many intelligent people who don't feel that they should just "go along" with the system.

So you're saying that we should all be like the schvartzes and drop out? Or is it that if a white person drops out, it's because he realizes what liberal bunk education really is and is better off dropping out and using his own brain to achieve his brilliance and success while if a black person drops out, it's because he's just a dumb lazy ape schvartze?

[Daniel]

Its not informed if someone implies that a black hasn't graduated just because they are black. I graduated high school 15 years ago.

This is typical Erica.

You quote a statistic or observation about blacks as a whole and she responds with..."But I don't" or "But I didn't"....it's annoying but get used to it as we can't seem to explain the concept of collective versus individual.

Um, Newman, you are the biggest violator of not being able to understand the concept of collective versus individual. You constantly generalize and stereotype the entire black race based on individual scenarious and think your conclusions are sound and accurate. Yet if someone points out a positive individual experience and scenario, all of a sudden, you have a complete understanding of the concept of collective versus individual. This is nothing more than selective reasoning.

[newman]

Its not informed if someone implies that a black hasn't graduated just because they are black. I graduated high school 15 years ago.

This is typical Erica.

You quote a statistic or observation about blacks as a whole and she responds with..."But I don't" or "But I didn't"....it's annoying but get used to it as we can't seem to explain the concept of collective versus individual.

Um, Newman, you are the biggest violator of not being able to understand the concept of collective versus individual. You constantly generalize and stereotype the entire black race based on individual scenarious and think your conclusions are sound and accurate. Yet if someone points out a positive individual experience and scenario, all of a sudden, you have a complete understanding of the concept of collective versus individual. This is nothing more than selective reasoning.

No.

I generalise based on statistics, observation and common knowledge. When you wake up to yourself and become a conservative and are no longer confused by your liberal upbringing, you'll see things as clearly as I do.

[Ehud]

I think newman was saying that it only takes a 10th grade education in order to see things in the correct way.  I don't think he was necessarily saying that HE had a 10th grade education.

No, I actually do have a 10th grade education.

The other post Erica is referring to was written by an american in general terms and was not about ME getting into a college. That part went over her head (as do a lot of things).

Oh, woah, tell us the story behind that, if you would be so kind?  Namely, how does such a brilliant person only have a 10th grade education.  Was it because you realized it was all bogus and you didn't need it?  I know there is a similar phenomenon among many intelligent people who don't feel that they should just "go along" with the system.

So you're saying that we should all be like the schvartzes and drop out? Or is it that if a white person drops out, it's because he realizes what liberal bunk education really is and is better off dropping out and using his own brain to achieve his brilliance and success while if a black person drops out, it's because he's just a dumb lazy ape schvartze?

No of course we shouldn't drop out.  I wasn't trying to make any general statement about why white people drop out of high school, but I have heard from some white drop outs that they just thought school was BS and didn't have any relation to the real world and what they were learning was pointless crap.  I'm not saying that's true, I'm just saying that was their reason for quitting.  I've met some high school drop-outs who are capable people who just don't want to go along with the system.  Of course I don't ever think that a person is better off not graduating high school.  There are many whites who drop out because they are dumb lazy ape white trash and there are plenty of blacks who drop out because they are dumb lazy ape schvartzes but proportionally, I would say that more whites than blacks drop out because they don't see why they should have to take classes learning about things that they will never end up needing in their lives.  (again, not my opinion but this is what they think)   

[Erica]

Erica have you ever taught in a city school before? I wouldn't recommend it. If it's in a bad neighborhood, you'll go bananas within 6 months.

And you know this because? I actually attended school, both elementary school and high schol in the city where I grew up. Not much has changed since I was in school. Its only been 15 years for me. I'm going to teach where I'm needed. Right now I'm needed in the community where I grew up.

I know because I'm a teacher in an awful neighborhood. If you want a job let me know...I'll give you mine..

What burns me up, IZ is that you went into a nobel profession with the good intention of educating children.

Your reward is to be threatened with assault or murder every day by savages who have NO DESIRE to be educated.

That's a lie! First off, it's only a small number of students who have no desire to be educated and who cause the most behavior problems in a school. Even those few do not desire to assault or murder us. They just want us to "Quit beasting", but they rarely assault us and never express how they want us dead. I'm speaking from my experiences in working in a bad area in the south Bronx for eight years. What experiences do you have to back up your claims?

Daniel, I poked my head in for a few minutes this morning but couldn't stay to respond to you so I'll do so now... DANIEL YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!! And you echo everything I'm feeling about becomming a teacher. I feel like I owe it to myself and my community to at least dedicate my time, education and energy to teaching children in my neighborhood back home how to read and write. I'm not walking on the moon or anything but I am intending on helping to move mountains. When I become certified, I'll go where I'm needed. I'm going to respond to the other posts you read but do know this...they will look the same as this post I'm writing in response to you now.

[Ari]

Keep the faith ItalianZionist.  I went throught a similar situation too.  Things will turn out all right.

[Erica]

The black people at my law school are affirmative action and they frankly don't belong there.  It's VERY apparent that they're not up to the level of everyone else.  Also, they always segregate themselves and only talk to each other and no one else.  The white people are always so nice to them but they CHOOSE to only congregate among themselves.  In one of my classes all the white people are sitting in the center of the room and all the blacks are off on one side of the room by themselves.  It's self-segregation and the only reason that they're doing it is because they're taught that people hate them and that they need to stick with each other or else whitey will "bring them down" when in reality most of the liberal white people are willing to bend over and take it from any of them.

Do those same white people congregate with blacks? I remember back in college, whites sat with whites, Asians with Asians and blacks with blacks because each of the ethnicities thought that the other ethnicity didn't want to really have anything to do with them. SOme self-hating blacks sat alone because they were convinced that whites would make friends with them only to pick their culture apart. Some whites thought that if they made friends with a black person that they'd walk away from the situation speaking in ebonics and dressing 'hood'. There is fear on each side. Almost like inside bullying, only no one is saying anything.

Well when everyone sits in class on the first day and the blacks all decide to go together and sit in one area, no one is stopping them from sitting wherever they want.  They choose to go sit together.  None of the white people treat any of the black people any differently, I spoke to a few of the black people and I was just as nice to them as I was to anyone else.  Whenever they see a black person they immediately have to know them, like if they see a black that they don't know they'll immediately go up to him and say hi nice to meet you, what's your name?  I am almost certain that all the black people know each other by now and it's only barely 3 weeks into school.  They don't go up to white people and act like they want to meet them.  There are whites to talk to asians, there's an Indian guy I know who talks to white people and associates with white people and also even arab Muslims who associate with white people and talk to them.  The blacks are different.  They don't seem to want to get to know anyone who isn't black.  It's sort of offensive really because when the black people are walking around it's almost impossible to even say hi to them because they completely ignore you because there's such a degree of separation between them and everyone else. 

I don't know how things are in your part of the planet. But on my side of the planet, what you state here is completely not true!

Thank you Daniel! It is a lie.

Also, I emphasized one sentence I didn't look into at first..
"In one of my classes all the white people are sitting in the center of the room ..."

It sounds to me like they're segregating themselves also if they're not occupying empty chairs surrounding them... This has more to do with people (IN YOUR CLASSS) being uncomfortable around each other rather than just blacks being stand-offish. I was one of those blacks back in college who sat with people who best fit my personality; a little goofy, intelligent, musically inclined, and depressed. lol The people I sat with were black, white, sometimes a Chinese guy sat with us when his classes corresponded with our down time. My point is that you shouldn't go making off handed judgements about black people when its up to you to ask them  how they feel about the situation  you all are in. Are you afraid to talk to them, IZ?

[Erica]

I think newman was saying that it only takes a 10th grade education in order to see things in the correct way.  I don't think he was necessarily saying that HE had a 10th grade education.

No, I actually do have a 10th grade education.

The other post Erica is referring to was written by an american in general terms and was not about ME getting into a college. That part went over her head (as do a lot of things).

Oh, woah, tell us the story behind that, if you would be so kind?  Namely, how does such a brilliant person only have a 10th grade education.  Was it because you realized it was all bogus and you didn't need it?  I know there is a similar phenomenon among many intelligent people who don't feel that they should just "go along" with the system.

So you're saying that we should all be like the schvartzes and drop out? Or is it that if a white person drops out, it's because he realizes what liberal bunk education really is and is better off dropping out and using his own brain to achieve his brilliance and success while if a black person drops out, it's because he's just a dumb lazy ape schvartze?

No of course we shouldn't drop out.  I wasn't trying to make any general statement about why white people drop out of high school, but I have heard from some white drop outs that they just thought school was BS and didn't have any relation to the real world and what they were learning was pointless crap.  I'm not saying that's true, I'm just saying that was their reason for quitting.  I've met some high school drop-outs who are capable people who just don't want to go along with the system.  Of course I don't ever think that a person is better off not graduating high school.  There are many whites who drop out because they are dumb lazy ape white trash and there are plenty of blacks who drop out because they are dumb lazy ape schvartzes but proportionally, I would say that more whites than blacks drop out because they don't see why they should have to take classes learning about things that they will never end up needing in their lives.  (again, not my opinion but this is what they think)   

Dispite what you've read in the statistics about blacks and the drop out rate in America, would you think the same way about a black child who gets bored with things they feel they won't need to know in the future ; then ultimately drops out?

[Ehud]

Of course I would feel the same way about anyone who drops out of school for that reason.  I just have a feeling that most black drop outs of school either just have a "screw this" mentality or don't want to even try in high school because of past failures in their academics so they just give up.  Of course this is the case with many white drop-outs as well but I just feel that there is a greater proportion of whites who drop out in a more conscious way because they refuse to go along with the educational status quo.  Of course everyone who drops out has a screw this mentality but what I'm trying to say is that most whites have a more conscious screw this mentality.  Go ask a typical black why he dropped out and he'll give you an answer along the lines of, oh school, screw that, that's not cool, why go to school when I can join a gang and deal drugs instead, whereas if you talk to the average white drop-out and ask him why he dropped out he'll be more likely to say that he didn't see the point because what they learn about isn't relevant to the real world.  Of course at the end of the day it doesn't really make a difference, they're all high school drop outs anyway. 

[Daniel]

Its not informed if someone implies that a black hasn't graduated just because they are black. I graduated high school 15 years ago.

This is typical Erica.

You quote a statistic or observation about blacks as a whole and she responds with..."But I don't" or "But I didn't"....it's annoying but get used to it as we can't seem to explain the concept of collective versus individual.

Um, Newman, you are the biggest violator of not being able to understand the concept of collective versus individual. You constantly generalize and stereotype the entire black race based on individual scenarious and think your conclusions are sound and accurate. Yet if someone points out a positive individual experience and scenario, all of a sudden, you have a complete understanding of the concept of collective versus individual. This is nothing more than selective reasoning.

No.

I generalise based on statistics, observation and common knowledge. When you wake up to yourself and become a conservative and are no longer confused by your liberal upbringing, you'll see things as clearly as I do.

This is not about conservative versus liberal. It's about reality versus fantasy and being consistent about it. You are engaging in double standards and just absolute hypocrisy.

[newman]

Its not informed if someone implies that a black hasn't graduated just because they are black. I graduated high school 15 years ago.

This is typical Erica.

You quote a statistic or observation about blacks as a whole and she responds with..."But I don't" or "But I didn't"....it's annoying but get used to it as we can't seem to explain the concept of collective versus individual.

Um, Newman, you are the biggest violator of not being able to understand the concept of collective versus individual. You constantly generalize and stereotype the entire black race based on individual scenarious and think your conclusions are sound and accurate. Yet if someone points out a positive individual experience and scenario, all of a sudden, you have a complete understanding of the concept of collective versus individual. This is nothing more than selective reasoning.

No.

I generalise based on statistics, observation and common knowledge. When you wake up to yourself and become a conservative and are no longer confused by your liberal upbringing, you'll see things as clearly as I do.

This is not about conservative versus liberal. It's about reality versus fantasy and being consistent about it. You are engaging in double standards and just absolute hypocrisy.

No i'm not.

When the majority of group A act the same as the majority of group B, I'll be critical of both.