Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
what does the Torah say about satan
newman:
--- Quote from: ftf on September 09, 2007, 08:42:02 AM ---I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.
--- End quote ---
It still makes sense.
The bitter pill to swallow for those of us raised in the christian tradition is that all the evil inclinations are ours. Not being able to put your lust, hate or desire to murder down to the devil making you do it, but accepting that it came from you alone is the hard part.
Shouting not necessary. :)
Uziyahu:
The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".
Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.
Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.
In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism. The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.
If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.
(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture. In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense. Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)
Eliezer Ben Avraham:
--- Quote from: Uziyahu on November 13, 2007, 09:08:01 PM ---The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".
Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.
Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.
In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism. The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.
If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.
(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture. In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense. Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)
--- End quote ---
Satan was mentioned in Job, which i think was before the time you are referring to
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Uziyahu on November 13, 2007, 09:08:01 PM ---The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".
Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.
Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.
In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism. The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.
If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.
(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture. In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense. Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)
--- End quote ---
What do you know about "serious forms of judaism". You do not believe judaism.
You even refer to "today`s bible", and put bible in quotes. So, you don`t believe it is the literal word of G-d.
I don`t know or care what you believe, but don`t mislead people by using expressions like "written torah". Or what is and is not a "serious" form of judaism.
--added--
my apologies if I got you wrongly.
WestCoastJTF:
--- Quote from: ftf on September 09, 2007, 08:42:02 AM ---I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.
I will leave one thing for people to think on, G-d created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?
--- End quote ---
Regardless of Satan, Jews believe in the fall of Adam.
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