Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
what does the Torah say about satan
q_q_:
--- Quote from: WestCoastJTF on November 15, 2007, 05:43:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: ftf on September 09, 2007, 08:42:02 AM ---I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.
I will leave one thing for people to think on, G-d created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?
--- End quote ---
Regardless of Satan, Jews believe in the fall of Adam.
--- End quote ---
There is a christian concept of that name. But Jews have a differenct concept, and would not use the phrase "fall of adam".
The jewish concept, is that for Adam and Eve`s sin, the land was cursed. And man was cursed to work the land to make it produce, and women were cursed with pain of childbirth.
That is just from the text.
That is not the christian fall of Adam concept. Which as I understand it, is that human beings are considered sinners. And are not punished for that or any other sins, because jesus died to clear that and belief in that clears it.
In judaism, Adam and Eve`s sin is not our sin. Anymore than our ancestors sins are our sins. Sure, we may suffer the consequences of them. But they are not our sins. We are not judged for them.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
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In judaism, Adam and Eve`s sin is not our sin. Anymore than our ancestors sins are our sins. Sure, we may suffer the consequences of them. But they are not our sins. We are not judged for them.
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Actually it is. Everyone was included in the collective soul of Adam and Eve, and in a way everyone sinned in that respect.
jdl4ever:
I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on November 15, 2007, 09:23:16 PM ---I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it.
--- End quote ---
G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.
jdl4ever:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on November 15, 2007, 09:52:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on November 15, 2007, 09:23:16 PM ---I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it.
--- End quote ---
G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.
--- End quote ---
JDL4EVER will resolve the apparent contradiction. The rule that G-d punishes for only 3-4 generations is for most sins but does not apply for murder and for "super major sins (my term)". How do I know it doesn't apply to murder? Since G-d punished Kain's decendants for him murdering Ebel 7 generations later. How do I know it doesn't apply for super major sins? Because G-d is still punishing us for the sin of the Golden Calf plus also for the sins that led to the destruction of the first temple as indicated numerous times in the writings of the Prophets. You won't find this in any commentary, it's my own derivation.
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