what does the Torah say about satan

[mord]

is evil ,devil or just a prosecuter

[newman]

G_d's prosecutor like a DA.

G_d's Entrapment artist like a policewoman posing as a hooker who busts you if you ask "How much, luv?"

.......at least that's what I heard on Tovia Singer's show. I stand to be corrected, however.

[mord]

G_d's prosecutor like a DA.

G_d's Entrapment artist like a policewoman posing as a hooker who busts you if you ask "How much, luv?"

:laugh:good

[Mishmaat]

I remember asking Chaim about this. He said Satan is a prosecutor, and an implement of God.

I wish I could provide a more in-depth answer.

[mord]

I remember asking Chaim about this. He said Satan is a prosecutor, and an implement of G-d.

I wish I could provide a more in-depth answer.

Yes thats what i thought

[EagleEye]

Christians interpret the snake in the Genesis creation story to be the devil, but Jews do not.

[EagleEye]

So in Judaism, is "satan" just an evil force, and not an actual ruler of hell?

[newman]

So in Judaism, is "satan" just an evil force, and not an actual ruler of hell?

No, he works for G_d as an enticer and prosecutor.

[DownwithIslam]

I think satan is known as the "Bad malach" in judaism.

[ftf]

I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.

I will leave one thing for people to think on, God created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?

[newman]

I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.

It still makes sense.

The bitter pill to swallow for those of us raised in the christian tradition is that all the evil inclinations are ours. Not being able to put your lust, hate or desire to murder down to the devil making you do it, but accepting that it came from you alone is the hard part.

Shouting not necessary.

[Uziyahu]

The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".

Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.

Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.

In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism.  The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.

If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.

(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture.  In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense.  Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".

Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.

Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.

In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism.  The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.

If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.

(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture.  In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense.  Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)

Satan was mentioned in Job, which i think was before the time you are referring to

[q_q_]

The written Torah says NOTHING about "Satan".

Jews didn't start believing in a spiritual being by the name of "haSatan" (the Adversary or the Opposer) until they encountered the dualistic Zoroastrian religion of the Persians during the Babylonian captivity.

Before that, you'll find human beings refered to as "satan"(s), because the word simply means adversary or opposer.

In other words, "Satan" is the bogeyman of a foreign religion, and has no place in any serious form of Judaism.  The Christian myth is also highly dependent on the existence of "Satan", so knowing that the belief in Satan isn't a "Torahic" doctrine helps to expose how false Christianity is.

If anything, Christians have been extremely efficient "satans" to the Jewish people that they have likewise accused of being children of the Devil and offspring of serpents.

(In today's "Bible", the serpent in the garden cannot be identified with Satan the Devil without consulting Christian scripture.  In fact, I am encountering more and more people who are beginning to see this standing, talking serpent in a very literal sense.  Especially those who believe in the "reptilian" conspiracy.)

What do you know about "serious forms of judaism". You do not believe judaism.

You even refer to "today`s bible", and put bible in quotes.  So, you don`t believe it is the literal word of G-d.

I don`t know or care what you believe, but don`t mislead people by using expressions like "written torah". Or what is and is not a "serious" form of judaism.


--added--
my apologies if I got you wrongly.

[WestCoastJTF]

I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.

I will leave one thing for people to think on, G-d created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?

Regardless of Satan, Jews believe in the fall of Adam.

[q_q_]

I personally don't believe that the world makes sense if Satan isn't evil and working against G-d, but, I'll stay out of this discussion so as to prevent a shouting match.

I will leave one thing for people to think on, G-d created us in his image, why would he include evil inclinations in us?

Regardless of Satan, Jews believe in the fall of Adam.

There is a christian concept of that name. But Jews have a differenct concept, and would not use the phrase "fall of adam".
The jewish concept, is that for Adam and Eve`s sin, the land was cursed. And man was cursed to work  the land to make it produce, and women were cursed with pain of childbirth.
That is just from the text.

That is not the christian fall of Adam concept. Which as I understand it, is that human beings are considered sinners.   And are not punished for that or any other sins, because jesus died to clear that and belief in that clears it.

In judaism, Adam and Eve`s sin is not our sin.   Anymore than our ancestors sins are our sins. Sure, we may suffer the consequences of them. But they are not our sins.  We are not judged for them.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

[/quote]


In judaism, Adam and Eve`s sin is not our sin.   Anymore than our ancestors sins are our sins. Sure, we may suffer the consequences of them. But they are not our sins.  We are not judged for them.

[/quote]

 Actually it is. Everyone was included in the collective soul of Adam and Eve, and in a way everyone sinned in that respect.

[jdl4ever]

I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it. 

G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
 This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.

[jdl4ever]

I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it. 

G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
 This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.

JDL4EVER will resolve the apparent contradiction.  The rule that G-d punishes for only 3-4 generations is for most sins but does not apply for murder and for "super major sins (my term)".  How do I know it doesn't apply to murder?  Since G-d punished Kain's decendants for him murdering Ebel 7 generations later.  How do I know it doesn't apply for super major sins?  Because G-d is still punishing us for the sin of the Golden Calf plus also for the sins that led to the destruction of the first temple as indicated numerous times in the writings of the Prophets.  You won't find this in any commentary, it's my own derivation. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I disagree, Adam and Eve sinned and we are paying for their sin since we are their decendants, but it is not our sin though since we didn't commit it. 

G-d isnt punishing us for their sin. Except for 4 people, everyone else has sinned in one way or another. G-d doesnt just punish the children for their parents sins, expecially something that happened thousands of years ago. So in actuality we are still suffering becuase of our own ways.
 This is also connected to the statement that in those in whose generation the Temple isnt rebuilt they are as guilty as destroying the Temple.

JDL4EVER will resolve the apparent contradiction.  The rule that G-d punishes for only 4-5 generations is for most sins but does not apply for murder and for "super major sins (my term)".  How do I know it doesn't apply to murder?  Since G-d punished Kain's decendants for him murdering Ebel 7 generations later.  How do I know it doesn't apply for super major sins?  Because G-d is still punishing us for the sin of the Golden Calf plus also for the sins that led to the destruction of the first temple as indicated numerous times in the writings of the Prophets.  You won't find this in any commentary, it's my own derivation. 

 Either way if the children would make proper Tishuva of their own crimes they certainly would not have been punished for their parents sins. G-d is justice and He wouldnt punish an individual for absolutly nothing that they have not done. (unless a few very high Tzaddikim for who make Tikkunim and other things for the people).
 We cant blame our forfathers and mothers for our problems- the truth is that we ourselves are more than guilty for what came and is coming for us. We need to change ourselves and our generation and not hold the focus of blame on someting that allready happened generations ago.

[jdl4ever]

What you write is "wishful thinking" and has no basis in the Torah.  Even if the children repent, they are still punished for these sins.  That is part of the Torah and some parts of the Torah you do not understand yet. 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

What you write is "wishful thinking" and has no basis in the Torah.  Even if the children repent, they are still punished for these sins.  That is part of the Torah and some parts of the Torah you do not understand yet. 

The Torah says that G-d doesnt punish children for their parents sins. (more than 3 or 4 generations), and gives blessings for thousands of generations. - The commentaries say that 3 or 4 generations if the children follow in their parents footsteps and ways and do not make Tishuva.
 You might ask- then why is a person born to a rich family, while another is poor, or why os one a Mamzer (bastard) and is in a way discriminated agains't (can marry only another Mamzer, etc.) - That has to do a lot with Gilgulim and the Tikkunim and punishment (for cleaning) that that soul has to go threw. 

[jdl4ever]

Gilgulim and the Tikkunim may not exist as they were recently invented by the Kabbalists with no Torah source so it is not a good answer, the real answer is what I wrote.  Also, I am aware what some of the commentators write, but I would modify or read differently what they write to say if the children do repent their is a good possibility of the sins being forgiven but it is not definite in my opinion.  The proof is from Kain killing Hevel.  Plus from every other case where the righteous suffer for no apparent reason.  G-d specifically tells Kain that punishment for his sin will occur in 7 generations with no conditions, G-d did not say "if your decendants repent then I won't punish them".  In fact, it was a definite punishment destined to occur if the 7th generation repented or did not repent.  And if you tell me that G-d knew that the guy would not repent, then the Torah would still not use such definite language and make us derive wrong information, as every phrase is precious.  It would have at least stated that the one who was killed was also a murderer, which is not true.  Similarly, we are still being punished for the sin of the Golden Calf (remember the Koehen Gadol can't wear gold on Yom Kippur, why? didn't he repent according to you?) and for the sins that led to the destruction of the Temple, and for the sins of other Jews in our generation, but if most of us repent completely then G-d may have mercy on us and forget about these sins and restore us to our glory.

[Uziyahu]

q_q_, I seriously doubt you have taken the time to know what I believe.

Next time, bring some support.