Chaim ben pesach going to Israel

[Rivera]

how is it an exception? things are somewhat urgent over there.  but granted, if he makes it in now, no one will even know who he is..so i can assure you, there will hardly be any danger.

the only thing Chaim can do in Israel right now is get arrested or G-D forbid get kill! the Torah forbids people to put them self's in harms why

[serbian army]

"Present" for Chaim before he goes to the Israel...

[Rivera]

"Present" for Chaim before he goes to the Israel...

Chaim is Jewish he would not wear a CROSS

[Daniel]

Listen! Chaim is HaTorah so he should know this. there is a Torah prohibition not to put one self in harms way. if a Jewish person knows that if he goes to a certain place and he will be harm or kill. the Torah forbides that Jewish person from going there.

I think Rabbi Kahane would have completely disagreed with you on this. He never let fear stop him from going to any dangerous place where he could have been harmed or killed. He went to the Nazi Headquarters in Skokie, IL, he stood outside the Black Panthers headquarters, whenever an arab tried to heckle or harass him, he didn't shy away or flinch like we'd expect a Jew to do, he just pushed them right back. So was the Rabbi in violation of the torah when he did this? I personally admire and respect a great deal the fearlessness that Kahane operated with. The only thing I disagree with is him going around without sufficient security and protection. If Chaim ben Pesach wasn't in jail, there's no doubt in my mind that Chaim would have been there to protect Kahane and that piece of [censored] Nosair wouldn't have gotten near the Rabbi.

[Daniel]

Was Rabbi Kanhana a prophet when he warn about the Arabs in Isarel? no! but he was right. people sometimes just know.

That might be true, but you my friend, are no Rabbi Kahane!

[serbian army]

Chaim is Jewish he would not wear a CROSS

I know, but that is something for him from my people. He should no wear it, i do not want to

[Rivera]

Listen! Chaim is HaTorah so he should know this. there is a Torah prohibition not to put one self in harms way. if a Jewish person knows that if he goes to a certain place and he will be harm or kill. the Torah forbides that Jewish person from going there.

I think Rabbi Kahane would have completely disagreed with you on this. He never let fear stop him from going to any dangerous place where he could have been harmed or killed. He went to the Nazi Headquarters in Skokie, IL, he stood outside the Black Panthers headquarters, whenever an arab tried to heckle or harass him, he didn't shy away or flinch like we'd expect a Jew to do, he just pushed them right back. So was the Rabbi in violation of the Torah when he did this? I personally admire and respect a great deal the fearlessness that Kahane operated with. The only thing I disagree with is him going around without sufficient security and protection. If Chaim Ben Pesach wasn't in jail, there's no doubt in my mind that Chaim would have been there to protect Kahane and that piece of excrement Nosair wouldn't have gotten near the Rabbi.

The fact is that the Torah warning not to put one self in harms way prove true in the life of Rabbi kahane he was killed. the Torah is there to guide us. if we reject certain teachings of the Torah then it will come back to bite us. there is a difference between self defence and looking for trouble. if the black panthers went to him to harm him then of course he will be right to fight them this is not putting ones self in harm way. the same thing with the Nazi's if they went to kahane to kill him then he should kill them first. but the Torah is clear. the Torah must guide us.    

[Mstislav]

OK so when are you going to Israel. when is every Jewish person here at jtf going to Israel. you are so ready for Chaim to go and maybe go to jail or be killed. why don't you follow him?

If I could, I would without any hesitation. Israel needs to be freed from its corrupt leaders and rid of the islamic cancer just waiting to destroy every inch of the Jewish homeland. IMHO, being Jewish does not have to be a prerequisite to join this cause.

[Rivera]

Was Rabbi Kanhana a prophet when he warn about the Arabs in Isarel? no! but he was right. people sometimes just know.

That might be true, but you my friend, are no Rabbi Kahane!

You missed my point! first I would not like to be a rabbi Kahane. I am happy with who I am. Hashem does not make mistakes with creation. My point was that people can have insight into certain things and be right with out being a prophet.

[takebackourtemple]

   Where does the Torah forbid someone from putting themselves in harms way?

[Rivera]

   Where does the Torah forbid someone from putting themselves in harms way?

http://www.aish.com/societyWork/work/Taking_a_Risk.asp

[jdl4ever]

Whether Chaim is putting himself in harms way as the Torah describes it is a very weak argument.  He's not putting himself in any danger too different that any Israeli Politician, Israeli Settler, or member of the IDF during a war.  Even if he is putting himself in grave danger, it is permitted to do so in this instance to bring the Massiah.   

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Stop this nonsense!

Torah prohibits engagement in evil activities that are harmful to yourself and others.

Drugs are evil, alcoholism is evil, gambling is evil, speeding on the road just to show off is evil.

Now, compare it with risking your life to save your people, your country. Feeling the difference?

Legitimate cowardice is against Torah. Cowardice and not the strength of not engaging yourself into idiotic activities.

[Rivera]

Stop this nonsense!

Torah prohibits engagement in evil activities that are harmful to yourself and others.

Drugs are evil, alcoholism is evil, gambling is evil, speeding on the road just to show off is evil.

Now, compare it with risking your life to save your people, your country. Feeling the difference?

Legitimate cowardice is against Torah. Cowardice and not the strength of not engaging yourself into idiotic activities.

being obedient to the Torah commandment not to put oneself in harms way does not make a person a Coward. their is a reason for this Torah teaching. many people in life get a head of them self's and wind up outside the will of Hashem. I believe this Happen to Rabbi Kahane. Rabbi Kahane was not chosen By G-D to be Israel leader. And his son Benjamin also was not chosen by G-D to be Israel leader. they both died according to the will of Hashem who on Rosh Hashana decreed that they were to died. what was their mistake? they appointed themselves to be Israels l leader  out side the Will of G-D. Chaim is following  the same direction they took. if we do not accept all of the Torah teachins in our lifes then we will always be outside of the will of G-D.

[serbian army]

Chaim should not go There is one big Serbian patriot called Vojislav Seselj who went to Haag. Four years he is there but trial has not started yet. He was protesting by not taking food for 20 days and almost died. He is the leader of the strongest political party in Serbia.

CHAIM DO NOT MAKE A SAME MISTAKE

[Rivera]

Chaim should not go There is one big Serbian patriot called Vojislav Seselj who went to Haag. Four years he is there but trial has not started yet. He was protesting by not taking food for 20 days and almost died. He is the leader of the strongest political party in Serbia.

CHAIM DO NOT MAKE A SAME MISTAKE

Thank you Serbian leader.

[Dr. Dan]

i will say one thing that may seem to be in agreement with Rivera:

A good politician doesn't shout and scream and sound obvious.

A good politician first becomes popular without expressing his/her views...and then eventually subtly make them known..

The laws of social behavior shows that the majority of people follow th emost popular person even if they have no clue who he/she is.

So in chaim's case...brave as he is..and obvious with his views and certainly unpopular with the powerful minority, may not get very far in the next 5-20 years once he makes aliya (I hope I'm wrong). 

Just as communism in the 80's was unpopular in the US...look where we are today...a little mouse squeaked in the ears of liberals who squeaked in the ears of socialists and from the bottom up took over the media...and look at their power today.

But i know chaim well enough...he's not a rebel rouser anymore like he used to be. A Much quieter demeanor and more logical.  Definately captivating, but needs more work on his speaking...repeats himself A LOT! 

With the right strategy in Israel, the most important thing is to become popular before running in the knesset.  Better to have a pawn who agrees with him to run on his behalf if they want to see if any Kahanists will come to power.

[Daniel]

Stop this nonsense!

Torah prohibits engagement in evil activities that are harmful to yourself and others.

Drugs are evil, alcoholism is evil, gambling is evil, speeding on the road just to show off is evil.

Now, compare it with risking your life to save your people, your country. Feeling the difference?

Legitimate cowardice is against Torah. Cowardice and not the strength of not engaging yourself into idiotic activities.

being obedient to the Torah commandment not to put oneself in harms way does not make a person a Coward. their is a reason for this Torah teaching. many people in life get a head of them self's and wind up outside the will of Hashem. I believe this Happen to Rabbi Kahane. Rabbi Kahane was not chosen By G-D to be Israel leader. And his son Benjamin also was not chosen by G-D to be Israel leader. they both died according to the will of Hashem who on Rosh Hashana decreed that they were to died. what was their mistake? they appointed themselves to be Israels l leader  out side the Will of G-D. Chaim is following  the same direction they took. if we do not accept all of the Torah teachins in our lifes then we will always be outside of the will of G-D.

I know many people disagreed with Kahane, but I've never seen the rationale explained from a perspective like this before. The fact that Rabbi Kahane and his son were murdered in and of itself is self-evident that G-d didn't intend for them to be Israel's leaders? I disagree with this notion. G-d gives man free will and Rabbi Kahane according to his own free will chose to take on a strong leadership role as well as the free will that was given to the Al Queda scum Nosair who killed him.

[takebackourtemple]

Rabbi Kahane was not chosen By G-D to be Israel leader. And his son Benjamin also was not chosen by G-D to be Israel leader. they both died according to the will of Hashem who on Rosh Hashana decreed that they were to died. what was their mistake? they appointed themselves to be Israels l leader  out side the Will of G-D.

   Your response disturbs me.
   Both Rabbis ZT'L were humble and did what they did merely because of what Hashem commanded them to do. Neither of them appointed themselves as the leader of Israel(even though they were both deserving of the position as king) and both would have loved to see someone even more successful liberate the land.
   The blood of the Cohenim is strong in their family. In heaven they are now serving as angels. Their offspring will once again serve as priests when the temple is finally rebuilt. Long live the mitzvot of the Kahane family.

[jdl4ever]

   Your response disturbs me.
   Both Rabbis ZT'L were humble and did what they did merely because of what Hashem commanded them to do. Neither of them appointed themselves as the leader of Israel(even though they were both deserving of the position as king) and both would have loved to see someone even more successful liberate the land.
   The blood of the Cohenim is strong in their family. In heaven they are now serving as angels. Their offspring will once again serve as priests when the temple is finally rebuilt. Long live the mitzvot of the Kahane family.

Amen!

[Rivera]

   Your response disturbs me.
   Both Rabbis ZT'L were humble and did what they did merely because of what Hashem commanded them to do. Neither of them appointed themselves as the leader of Israel(even though they were both deserving of the position as king) and both would have loved to see someone even more successful liberate the land.
   The blood of the Cohenim is strong in their family. In heaven they are now serving as angels. Their offspring will once again serve as priests when the temple is finally rebuilt. Long live the mitzvot of the Kahane family.

Amen!

well would you agree that it was not the will of Hashem for both Rabbis Kahana and his son Benjamen to lead Israel?

[jdl4ever]

I would agree and say that it was not G-d's will for them to lead Israel because Israel was not worthy.  Had Israel been worthy, then G-d would have let them lead as Hashem brought two incredibly righteous Rabbis into this world who were potential Kings and it was up to the generation to be worthy enough for them to lead.   Had they lived in the generation of Moshiach then they would have led Israel to its glory. 

And we must not mourn the fact that they were not able to bring the Moshaich and lead the nation of Israel.  They accomplished tremendous feats during their lifetimes and led the people of Israel in other ways.  They were a tremendous guiding light during their lifetime.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

I won’t say what G-d wanted to do with Rabbi Kahane because I am not a prophet, and most importantly, I am not a demagogue.

I think Rabbi Kahane appeared in the wrong time – time when Jews had false hopes in self-power and power of western values.

As more and more western societies decay, more and more people see that those utopist hopes are vanishing.

That’s why today Jews are more ready for Kahanism that they were before.

Having said that, Kahanism derives from Rabbi Kahane's teachings, and without him we would not have all those answers that he knew so precisely.

[jdl4ever]

Zvulan brought up a good point.  We are not prophets and we can not predict what G-d's plan is.  We have to do what is correct, what the Torah wants us to do; and if G-d gives us certain talents we are required to use those talents to our fullest extent.  That also means taking risks as most people who make tremendous accomplishments did so by taking large risks both in the Torah and in the secular world. 

Taking a defeatist attitude and saying that you should sit on your tuchas and not do anything since perhaps G-d will not let you succeed is a very evil thing to do against the Torah and against Judaism.  It only shows your lack of faith in G-d and lack of faith in the Torah.  The only way you Revera will do anything is if G-d tells you specifically that you will succeed and surely know that this will not happen and it is not the way of Hashem.  He wants us to follow his Torah and to not expect guaranteed success, that is up to G-d.  And not succeeding in a certain goal does not mean that our efforts were not correct or a waste either as no one completely understands why G-d lets people doing what he commanded to not succeed.

And yes, saying that we have to "wait for Moshiach to come" to do anything to save Israel or to save the Jewish people is also a defeatest attitude and is against the Torah.  Only lazy people who don't do anything themselves say this so that their conscious shouldn't be bothered for their lack of action.

[Rivera]

Zvulan brought up a good point.  We are not prophets and we can not predict what G-d's plan is.  We have to do what is correct, what the Torah wants us to do; and if G-d gives us certain talents we are required to use those talents to our fullest extent.  That also means taking risks as most people who make tremendous accomplishments did so by taking large risks both in the Torah and in the secular world. 

Taking a defeatist attitude and saying that you should sit on your tuchas and not do anything since perhaps G-d will not let you succeed is a very evil thing to do against the Torah and against Judaism.  It only shows your lack of faith in G-d and lack of faith in the Torah.  The only way you Revera will do anything is if G-d tells you specifically that you will succeed and surely know that this will not happen and it is not the way of Hashem.  He wants us to follow his Torah and to not expect guaranteed success, that is up to G-d.  And not succeeding in a certain goal does not mean that our efforts were not correct or a waste either as no one completely understands why G-d lets people doing what he commanded to not succeed.

And yes, saying that we have to "wait for Moshiach to come" to do anything to save Israel or to save the Jewish people is also a defeatest attitude and is against the Torah.  Only lazy people who don't do anything themselves say this so that their conscious shouldn't be bothered for their lack of action.

In the book of PROVERBS 14:12 it says There is a way that seems right to a man, but at its end are the ways of death. King Solomen in his wisdom wrote this. We must examine our self's to see if what we are doing is right or we are just going our way in spite of the will of G-D! You do not have to be a prophet to know that it was not the will of Hashem that Rabbi Kahane and his son Benjamen lead Israel. they died according to the will of Hashem. Hashem in his mercy gives man signs in his life so man can examin himself and correct himself. Kahane was stop from going any father then he did in his politico life. he was at a dead end towards the end of his life. did Hashem give him warning signs so he could take a different direction in his life OF COURSE. Hashem gives all of us signs in our life so that we make the right choice. But sometimes we are blind with our own ambition to do our will instead of the will of G-D.