A Message From Chaim On Closing The Forum On Shabbat

[Raulmarrio2000]

Congratulations, I find it a very good idea to close the forum on Shabat and Yom Tov. Although there are many members who are Gentiles, this forum deals mostly with Jewish issues. We, Gentiles are not bound ( and even forbidden to keep Shabat) but we also must abstain from doing any Melacha for the sake of the Jews, since Jews are forbidden to use a goy to work for them on Shabat. If we post an article on Shabat to be read by Jews after Mozaei Shabat, we sin anyway.
At first I had also forbidden to use the Letbelandic sites on Shabat, since it dealt mostly with Israel's rights. Now it is permitted b/c we have other causes to defend ( Nature, the unborn.....) and Gentiles can post on these issues. Anyway we never had a mean to block the access to the sites. If you have found the way, then, it's great!

[Sarah]

Its a great idea, I finally got to do my homework without constantly resisting the urges to read things on JTF. I hope everybody had a great Yom Kippur

[Dexter]

But then it would be letting a Jew proceed even after they are warned.

But this is the proper way to do it acorrding to Halacha, no ?

[takebackourtemple]

   It needs to be closed on Shabbat for Eastern Time because that is when the admin are not available to administer the site. It also needs to be closed during Israel time, because a Jew violating the Shabbat in Israel is a lot more serious than one violating it outside of the country.
   I had previously suggested some downtime to encourage people to post on youtube instead. Perhaps we can have the site closed for both time zones and encourage people to use youtube instead when it is not currently Shabbat in their time zone.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I respect this and all other decisions Chaim makes about the operation of this forum, and applaud him for feeling a conviction on his heart and making a change based on it.

[Wayne Jude]

Sounds ok to this
Christian boy.

[Nic Brookes]

Having given this some thought I disagree with it. How will we become a mass movement if on Saturday, a prime time for Gentiles to be online, Gentiles cannot access the forum?

[Ultra Requete]

I respect this and all other decisions Chaim makes about the operation of this forum, and applaud him for feeling a conviction on his heart and making a change based on it.

I second to this; everybody not accepting this can erect its own pro Jewish forum.

[Sarah]

Having given this some thought I disagree with it. How will we become a mass movement if on Saturday, a prime time for Gentiles to be online, Gentiles cannot access the forum?

Its not the end of the world.

Its a greater acheivement to preserve this forums Jewish Qualities.

[Nic Brookes]

Having given this some thought I disagree with it. How will we become a mass movement if on Saturday, a prime time for Gentiles to be online, Gentiles cannot access the forum?

Its not the end of the world.

Its a greater acheivement to preserve this forums Jewish Qualities.

With this attitude we will never be a mass movement. Take Gentiles into account!

[takebackourtemple]

Having given this some thought I disagree with it. How will we become a mass movement if on Saturday, a prime time for Gentiles to be online, Gentiles cannot access the forum?

Its not the end of the world.

Its a greater acheivement to preserve this forums Jewish Qualities.

With this attitude we will never be a mass movement. Take Gentiles into account!

   There is nothing stopping Gentiles from going onto other sites such as youtube to promote our message. In fact it is encouraged. Asking a  Jewish site to stay open on Shabbat is like asking the Amish or the devout Christian owner of a store to stay open on Sunday. It's true that the stores lose business by closing their doors, but that is their moral backbone. The fact that the Amish close on Sunday does not prevent someone from going to the 24/7 supermarket instead.

[Daniel]

Instead of closing the forum, I would place a warning page reminding that it is Shabbat and how important that is for a Jew to observe it and if they decide to still go to the forum or if they are Gentile, then they would click on a link to proceed and would be redirected to the forum.

A Jew knows when it's the sabbath regardless of whether he/she observes it. A warning would make no difference.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Instead of closing the forum, I would place a warning page reminding that it is Shabbat and how important that is for a Jew to observe it and if they decide to still go to the forum or if they are Gentile, then they would click on a link to proceed and would be redirected to the forum.

A Jew knows when it's the sabbath regardless of whether he/she observes it. A warning would make no difference.

• The warning that I am suggesting is not going to simply remind the Jews what day of week it is, but would stress on the holiness and importance of the commandment to keep Shabbat.
• The only Jews that will come to the forum on Shabbat will be the secular ones, and thus if you simply close the doors in front of them, you will achieve nothing. But if you try to teach them, and I believe that even secular Jews take JTF as a reliable and respectable movement, and thus will take it [JTF] as a mentor.
• Let's not forget of Gentiles. They are not supposed to keep Shabbat. Moreover they are a significant and important part of our movement and thus, in my opinion, should continue running the forum while the Jews cant.
• The forum, being an automated software, does not need seupervision or operation by a human, and thus can operate 24/7 on its own.
• Let's not forget of the notion of free will when we are talking about Jews. I think, a free will that is educated becomes wisdom, and free will that is simply rejected becomes a mindless power.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

For me JTF is a planet that keeps spinning even on Shabbat and not a store that you can close at any time.

For me JTF is an Army that is there to defend Israel, and a Jewish Army must operate even on Shabbat.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Very, very bad idea to place a warning to jews saying that it is Shabat or Yom Tov and encouraging them to leave. Even if the Jew is persuaded of the Holiness of Shabat and chooses to leave the forum, he'll click EXIT, and that single click is already a violation!!!!!

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Very, very bad idea to place a warning to jews saying that it is Shabat or Yom Tov and encouraging them to leave. Even if the Jew is persuaded of the Holiness of Shabat and chooses to leave the forum, he'll click EXIT, and that single click is already a violation!!!!!

Single click?? The man would have turned the computer and visited a dozen of websites before he would come to JTF's website. Single click?? He would have violated Shabbat 55000 times before that single click that you are talking about.

And the reason is either that he doesnt care or doesnt understand the importance of Shabbat, and he needs to be educated and not shut the door before him.

[Wayne Jude]

Its just one of those things!

[Ultra Requete]

Very, very bad idea to place a warning to jews saying that it is Shabat or Yom Tov and encouraging them to leave. Even if the Jew is persuaded of the Holiness of Shabat and chooses to leave the forum, he'll click EXIT, and that single click is already a violation!!!!!

Turning on computer on shabas or clicking on JTF links is already violaton on several Sahabat laws including prohibation of writing; starting afire etc... atleast for observant ortodox jews; nad Zwulun do have a point that Jews must be educated to observe the Shabat voluntary atleast oustide land of Israel. 

[RationalThought110]

An idea I just posted in another thread:


An idea:

    If possible, an option should be added to the "Account Related Settings"  of the profile to allow users to check-off whether or not they want to be allowed to access the forum and to have the right to post on it during Shabbat.  I don't know how easy/difficult it would be to add an option like this.  Thus, those who don't want to feel temped to post on Shabbat will choose the option to not be able to access (thus also preventing them from posting) on Shabbat while other people will be allowed to access the forum and post. 

     Also, there would need to be an option (I'm not sure if there already is one) to select which time-zone you live in so then the forum would know what time Shabbat starts/ends for specific people (for those who would not want to be able to access the forum during Shabbat). 

    I think this potential idea would be fair to all. 

[raiseyourfist]

I would have thought that the need to be involved in JTF even for jews is so great (and could ultimately be a matter of life and death in the long run) even if this might mean breaking Shabbat to get the message across to voices around the world

I might be wrong so feel free to set me straight

[Lubab]

I would have thought that the need to be involved in JTF even for jews is so great (and could ultimately be a matter of life and death in the long run) even if this might mean breaking Shabbat to get the message across to voices around the world

I might be wrong so feel free to set me straight

You raise a good point and there is a such a concept of violating the Sabbat in order to defend Israel or definitely to save a life.

But I think the causal link between the activity and the life-saving would need to be a lot closer than the way that someone joining the forum and posting here would be related to saving a life down the road if Chaim becomes PM etc.

[takebackourtemple]

Instead of closing the forum, I would place a warning page reminding that it is Shabbat and how important that is for a Jew to observe it and if they decide to still go to the forum or if they are Gentile, then they would click on a link to proceed and would be redirected to the forum.

A Jew knows when it's the sabbath regardless of whether he/she observes it. A warning would make no difference.

   Yes, but Yom Tov is a different story. I'm not a religious Jew, but won't willfully violate Shabbat for JTF activity. I do occasionally forget when it is Yom Tov so if I get a warning I that will be of use. My only qualm about this is that people live in different time zones and it is difficult to determine when it is Shabbat for everyone.