A Message From Chaim On Closing The Forum On Shabbat

[jsullivan]

Chaim Ben Pesach e-mailed the following message:

Shalom fellow JTFers,

I believe that we have a moral obligation to prevent posting and registration on the JTF Forum on Shabbat (the Sabbath). I ask our administrators to take the necessary steps to implement this policy.

It is true that most of our forum members are righteous Gentiles, who do not have to observe Shabbat. If all of our forum members were Gentile, obviously there would be no problem with keeping the forum open on Shabbat.

But about 40% of our forum members are Jewish, and some of these Jewish members are not yet Shomrei Shabbat (Sabbath observant). Which means that if the forum is open, some of these Jewish members will post on Shabbat, chas veshalom (G-d forbid).

I know that some of our Jewish members will be on the internet on Shabbat whether the JTF Forum is open or not. We cannot control what people do in their personal lives. However, we as a movement cannot encourage or enable violating Shabbat. We cannot in effect legitimize Jews violating Shabbat by allowing our forum to become a place where this activity occurs. Whatever Jews do in their personal lives, they must at least know that JTF is a Torah-true movement that does everything possible to encourage Jews to observe Shabbat and to observe all of the mitzvot (commandments) of the Torah.

It is very painful for me to think that JTF encourages or enables even one Jew to violate Shabbat or any other mitzvah, chas vechalilah (G-d forbid). If even one Jew is encouraged or enabled to do this, then that is reason enough to close the forum on Shabbat.

As for our righteous Gentile members, I hope you will understand that when Jews observe Shabbat and the other mitzvot, is not only good for the Jewish people, it is good for the whole world. The whole world is a better place when Jews do what HaShem (G-d) has commanded them to do. By being part of a movement that encourages Jews to follow G-d's commandments, our wonderful Gentile members will also receive great blessings and merit from the Creator of the Universe.

שנה טובה וגמר חתימה טובה, ושנראה כולנו ביאת גואל צדק במהרה בימינו ובניין בית המקדש בכל תהילתו אכי''ר

Translation: A good New Year and a good final inscription [in the book of life], and we should all see the arrival of the just redeemer [the Messiah] quickly in our days and the building of the Holy Temple with all of its glory, this should be His will, amen.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

 

[EagleEye]

What about time zones...is not the sabbath variant depending on what location a person is living...

[mord]

Good point

[Dr. Dan]

I think it will be NY eastern time zone.

Tzvi-good call on bringing it to the attention that this forum should be closed on shabbat...even though i disagreed with my arm and leg about it...but it's the right thing to do for this movement.

[Dexter]

Fine by me .

[Lubab]

I had this question with my other forum, and the Rabbi said go with the time zone where you are.

In Chaim's case that's the New York time zone. It is true that others will be able to post in other time zone's on Shabbat, but this is the extent of our obligation under Jewish law.

 

[fjack]

I agree 100 percent.

[decimos]

Since you mentioned te Torah aspect,it seems logical../bump

[RationalThought110]

What about time zones...is not the sabbath variant depending on what location a person is living...

I think it's possible on forums to have a feature where individual users are able to select their time zone in a user settings type option. 

[Lisa]

Now that we are closing the forum for Shabbat, what will be the policy for major Jewish holidays like Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah, Succot and Passover?  Will we be closing it for those holidays as well? 

[jsullivan]

The Hebrew forum is not closed during the holidays because it is too complicated and confusing.

For example, next week we have two days of Succot coming up from Wednesday night to Friday night. That leads directly into the Sabbath. And so we have three days in a row when Jews are not supposed to be on computers. But if we close down the forum for three days with the written message about the Sabbath, it's confusing because it will say "Shabbat Shalom" on Wednesday night.

So the decision was made not to close the Hebrew forum when you have three days in a row like that, and we should do the same. Even on Shabbat, the Hebrew forum is not closed when a holiday immediately precedes the Sabbath. Because we can't have admins making changes on Friday night when it's a holiday. The admins making the changes would be violating the holiday, G-d forbid. And just leaving a confusing message for three days in a row saying both "Shabbat Shalom" and "Chag Sameach" is also not a good idea.

Tomorrow night is both Shabbat and Yom Kippur and so we can close the forum just before Friday night. But for the two weeks after that, we will have to leave the forum open in order to avoid confusion and chaos. Once the holidays are over, we can implement this new policy every Shabbat.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Instead of closing the forum, I would place a warning page reminding that it is Shabbat and how important that is for a Jew to observe it and if they decide to still go to the forum or if they are Gentile, then they would click on a link to proceed and would be redirected to the forum.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

But then it would be letting a Jew proceed even after they are warned.

No, it would be on his conscience, if he wants to proceed. You would have done your duty.

I would actually add a timetable of Shabbat in all timezones.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

But then it would be letting a Jew proceed even after they are warned.

No, it would be on his conscience, if he wants to proceed. You would have done your duty.

I would actually add a timetable of Shabbat in all timezones.

1- the discussion is over, it has been decided by Chaim that the forum will be closed on Shabbah.
2- Not a bad idea. (maybe like an announcement for when to expect its closing).

[jsullivan]

The Hebrew forum is not closed during the holidays because it is too complicated and confusing.

For example, next week we have two days of Shavuot coming up from Wednesday night to Friday night. That leads directly into the Sabbath. And so we have three days in a row when Jews are not supposed to be on computers. But if we close down the forum for three days with the written message about the Sabbath, it's confusing because it will say "Shabbat Shalom" on Wednesday night.

So the decision was made not to close the Hebrew forum when you have three days in a row like that, and we should do the same. Even on Shabbat, the Hebrew forum is not closed when a holiday immediately precedes the Sabbath. Because we can't have admins making changes on Friday night when it's a holiday. The admins making the changes would be violating the holiday, G-d forbid. And just leaving a confusing message for three days in a row saying both "Shabbat Shalom" and "Chag Sameach" is also not a good idea.

Tomorrow night is both Shabbat and Yom Kippur and so we can close the forum just before Friday night. But for the two weeks after that, we will have to leave the forum open in order to avoid confusion and chaos. Once the holidays are over, we can implement this new policy every Shabbat.

Jimmy, is it really only because of a matter of words? Just say "Shalom, this forum is currently closed because of the Holy Shabbat or current Yom Tov. We will reopen when it finishes."

Your suggestion makes sense if it can be phrased properly. It IS a matter of words. Saying "Shabbat Shalom" on Wednesday night would create confusion. It could cause people to think we're crazy or out of touch with reality. We want to bring people into our movement to bring them closer to Torah Judaism, not turn them away. If we can phrase things properly, that would solve the problem.

[Dr. Dan]

The Hebrew forum is not closed during the holidays because it is too complicated and confusing.

For example, next week we have two days of Shavuot coming up from Wednesday night to Friday night. That leads directly into the Sabbath. And so we have three days in a row when Jews are not supposed to be on computers. But if we close down the forum for three days with the written message about the Sabbath, it's confusing because it will say "Shabbat Shalom" on Wednesday night.

So the decision was made not to close the Hebrew forum when you have three days in a row like that, and we should do the same. Even on Shabbat, the Hebrew forum is not closed when a holiday immediately precedes the Sabbath. Because we can't have admins making changes on Friday night when it's a holiday. The admins making the changes would be violating the holiday, G-d forbid. And just leaving a confusing message for three days in a row saying both "Shabbat Shalom" and "Chag Sameach" is also not a good idea.

Tomorrow night is both Shabbat and Yom Kippur and so we can close the forum just before Friday night. But for the two weeks after that, we will have to leave the forum open in order to avoid confusion and chaos. Once the holidays are over, we can implement this new policy every Shabbat.

Jimmy, is it really only because of a matter of words? Just say "Shalom, this forum is currently closed because of the Holy Shabbat or current Yom Tov. We will reopen when it finishes."

Your suggestion makes sense if it can be phrased properly. It IS a matter of words. Saying "Shabbat Shalom" on Wednesday night would create confusion. It could cause people to think we're crazy or out of touch with reality. We want to bring people into our movement to bring them closer to Torah Judaism, not turn them away. If we can phrase things properly, that would solve the problem.

so politically correct...how about "shabbat shalom and/or chag sameach" ?   

[MasterWolf1]

It seems fair and I will respect that. No problem.

[OZ77]

thanks jimmy, tell Chaim this will be taken care of... 

[OZ77]

The Hebrew forum is not closed during the holidays because it is too complicated and confusing.

For example, next week we have two days of Shavuot coming up from Wednesday night to Friday night. That leads directly into the Sabbath. And so we have three days in a row when Jews are not supposed to be on computers. But if we close down the forum for three days with the written message about the Sabbath, it's confusing because it will say "Shabbat Shalom" on Wednesday night.

So the decision was made not to close the Hebrew forum when you have three days in a row like that, and we should do the same. Even on Shabbat, the Hebrew forum is not closed when a holiday immediately precedes the Sabbath. Because we can't have admins making changes on Friday night when it's a holiday. The admins making the changes would be violating the holiday, G-d forbid. And just leaving a confusing message for three days in a row saying both "Shabbat Shalom" and "Chag Sameach" is also not a good idea.

Tomorrow night is both Shabbat and Yom Kippur and so we can close the forum just before Friday night. But for the two weeks after that, we will have to leave the forum open in order to avoid confusion and chaos. Once the holidays are over, we can implement this new policy every Shabbat.

Jimmy, is it really only because of a matter of words? Just say "Shalom, this forum is currently closed because of the Holy Shabbat or current Yom Tov. We will reopen when it finishes."

Your suggestion makes sense if it can be phrased properly. It IS a matter of words. Saying "Shabbat Shalom" on Wednesday night would create confusion. It could cause people to think we're crazy or out of touch with reality. We want to bring people into our movement to bring them closer to Torah Judaism, not turn them away. If we can phrase things properly, that would solve the problem.

so politically correct...how about "shabbat shalom and/or chag sameach" ?   

the phrasing of the message can be changed by any admin at any time, it's very easy to do.
you can change it according to the day in question weather it's shabbat or yom tove.

[fjack]

Dear Posters,
Just because the site will be closed down for our Jewish brothers and sisters, that doesn't mean us goys should be less vigilant, It is our duty to and a obligation to be on guard when our brothers and sisters are doing their religious duties. As a matter of fact, we should be more vigilant in our oberservations of who is doing our brothers and sisters harm. I would expect no less from our Jewish brothers and sisters when Christians have their Holidays. What does Chiam think of my anaylsis.

[Ultra Requete]

Dear Posters,
Just because the site will be closed down for our Jewish brothers and sisters, that doesn't mean us goys should be less vigilant, It is our duty to and a obligation to be on guard when our brothers and sisters are doing their religious duties. As a matter of fact, we should be more vigilant in our oberservations of who is doing our brothers and sisters harm. I would expect no less from our Jewish brothers and sisters when Christians have their Holidays. What does Chiam think of my anaylsis.

That woudbe nice; but christians are no forbiden for posting on internet on their Holydays; unless it's sinfull site and JTF is not; or you post for financial profit an/or material future gain.

[mosquewatch]

I respect the decision too close the Forum. Don't like it , but I respect it. I missed the forum when it was closed.

[AussieJTFer]

What timezone will you be following? American Eastern timezone is 6 hours behind Israel and 14 hours behind Australia, how can you ensure Jews from various countries will not log on when it is still Shabbat in their respective timezones? Conversely, what if Jews want to log onto the forum after their Shabbat yet be stuck for more than half a day waiting for Shabbat to end in the US?

[Ultra Requete]

What timezone will you be following? American Eastern timezone is 6 hours behind Israel and 14 hours behind Australia, how can you ensure Jews from various countries will not log on when it is still Shabbat in their respective timezones? Conversely, what if Jews want to log onto the forum after their Shabbat yet be stuck for more than half a day waiting for Shabbat to end in the US?

The sever time must count which AET; it's for not helping them to sin; which is sin itself and not encouraging them to sin too; the staff have no authority an/or means to ensure they will keep sabath anyway.