Human coronaviruses were first identified in the mid-1960s

[Nachus]

                                                                              

I concur with Kahane Was Right BT. The current and
potential severity of this modern "plague" should not
be underestimated. That's not to say that the other issues
affecting today's world should be  ignored,marginalized or undermined in any way, but this one has to take priority for now.

[Israel Chai]

When did I say you support abortion? The problem is you obviously don't care about it nearly as much as this corona bull.

I can do something to stop the spread of corona. I can't do anything here to stop abortions. I know everything about abortions and don't need to be educated here. I don't know enough about corona and am looking for facts here.

Whenever Rabbi Mizrachi or Yaron Reuven talk about wasting seed, 600 people show up in the comments and say well there are pedophiles and you talk of this and not them so you support or don't care about pedophiles. I can only discuss one issue at once. Abortion is a real issue and so is corona virus. I didn't forget every other issue just because I'm currently interested in this one.

In other words, you will crash the world economy in order to avoid pneumonia. Got it.

60% of the world with a respiratory disease has economic costs associated with it. A situation like this doesn't cause a crash. The economy will hit a recession which will clear right up the second quarantine measures end. Also tens of millions of lives saved.

[angryChineseKahanist]

How about if I put it this way:
The 'cold' does not cause hospitals to be flooded out to the street.
Neither does the flu.
The new virus has already done so in a month.
One of the worst dictatorships had to weld metal bars to people's homes to contain the new virus.
Winnie the Pooh went into hiding for months.

[Zelhar]

Hrvatski Noahid, if you get exposed to a COVID19 carrier you must go into quarantine. This is a matter of pikuach nefesh. People who are careless about being contagious are really commingling a terrible sin.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

Hrvatski Noahid, if you get exposed to a COVID19 carrier you must go into quarantine. This is a matter of pikuach nefesh. People who are careless about being contagious are really commingling a terrible sin.

I heard last night that cafes and restaurants will close in my country because of this. Do you have any idea how this affects an economy dependent on tourism? When the suicide rate rises, as it will, will you be responsible for all those lost lives?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

When did I say you support abortion? The problem is you obviously don't care about it nearly as much as this corona bull.

You speak out of both sides of your mouth.

You're not saying I support abortion, you're just saying I don't care about it?   

That feels to you like a genuine argument you're making? 

When you call this "corona bull" it shows that you just don't grasp the situation or are in denial of the facts.    You can't dispute a single thing I've said, so you resort to this type of dismissal, such as "it's all bull" or "you don't care about abortions enough!"   Neither of those are substantive arguments, neither of them address the point.  It's ad hominem fallacies left and right with you as your primary form of argument.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I heard last night that cafes and restaurants will close in my country because of this. Do you have any idea how this affects an economy dependent on tourism? When the suicide rate rises, as it will, will you be responsible for all those lost lives?

I don't think you understand that the economy already went into a recession *because of the virus* and before the substantial distancing measures were put into place like closing down gatherings in a mandatory fashion.

I don't think you comprehend just how astronomical the numbers were going to get if we did NOT shut down gatherings, and how much worse that would become for the economy.

The social distancing solution is a temporary effort.  It gets the situation under control, limits the spread, saves lives, and allows more time for medicines to be developed.   The economy can recover from that much faster than letting this go unchecked.   Yes, life will be more uncomfortable for a little while.  I think we can all handle that.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

You speak out of both sides of your mouth.

You're not saying I support abortion, you're just saying I don't care about it?   

That feels to you like a genuine argument you're making? 

When you call this "corona bull" it shows that you just don't grasp the situation or are in denial of the facts.    You can't dispute a single thing I've said, so you resort to this type of dismissal, such as "it's all bull" or "you don't care about abortions enough!"   Neither of those are substantive arguments, neither of them address the point.  It's ad hominem fallacies left and right with you as your primary form of argument.

I'm saying there are bigger problems and you are utterly unable to understand that. Since you accuse your opponent of being selfish and wanting old people to die, I don't think you should mention ad hominem fallacies. 

[Hrvatski Noahid]

I don't think you understand that the economy already went into a recession *because of the virus* and before the substantial distancing measures were put into place like closing down gatherings in a mandatory fashion.

I don't think you comprehend just how astronomical the numbers were going to get if we did NOT shut down gatherings, and how much worse that would become for the economy.

The social distancing solution is a temporary effort.  It gets the situation under control, limits the spread, saves lives, and allows more time for medicines to be developed.   The economy can recover from that much faster than letting this go unchecked.   Yes, life will be more uncomfortable for a little while.  I think we can all handle that.

The Croatian economy was doing just fine before your fear campaign. Your speculations about what would have or could have happened don't impress me.

[Ulli]

It is still growing exponentiell!

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4/page/page_0/

[Hrvatski Noahid]

It is still growing exponentiell!

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4/page/page_0/

If I tell you the mortality rate is 0.216 % according to your source, will it help calm you down?

[Israel Chai]

If I tell you the mortality rate is 0.216 % according to your source, will it help calm you down?

No one wants a viral pneumonia to spread and become the new norm. We kill this thing now.

[Israel Chai]

From Rabbi Michael Skobac:

The virus is called Corona, in Hebrew קרא נא, which means please call out (to Me). How should we call out to Hashem?
The virus is also called Covid-19 – the word Covid shows up in a Mishnah at the beginning of the fifth perek of masechet Berachot. It says there אין עומדין להתפלל אלא מתוך כובד דראש – a person should not get up to pray unless he has covid rosh."
What is covid? Rashi says it means humility, recognizing we are nothing and we can’t do anything without Hashem. We need to call out to Him with covid(humility). And what should we call out? 19 – the 19 berachot of the Amida.

[Zelhar]

0.2% is not low risk when it comes to life. In Italy it's currently more like 10% lethality, but of course you don't care about old people.
Also given the demographics of the developed countries, in case of a universal infection rate (i.e 2/3 of total population) the death rate is going to be 3%.

If I tell you the mortality rate is 0.216 % according to your source, will it help calm you down?

[Hrvatski Noahid]

but of course you don't care about old people.

You people are insane. I'm done with this discussion.

[Israel Chai]

You people are insane. I'm done with this discussion.

So what you're less crazy than us now? Just go with it.

[Ulli]

0.2% is not low risk when it comes to life. In Italy it's currently more like 10% lethality, but of course you don't care about old people.
Also given the demographics of the developed countries, in case of a universal infection rate (i.e 2/3 of total population) the death rate is going to be 3%.

It is now 0,2, because the people get just infected. It says nothing about the end. This we can know only later if most people will be healed but some will have died.

The rate will be higher than. Perhaps not as high as in Italy, but 0,2 is not the end of the story. I will update you.

[Dr. Dan]

I"m a bit horrified to see some fellow JTFer's reactions to this.

This virus is no joke.  Yes it won't kill many healthy individuals.  However this thing is so contagious that one person can spread it to a bunch of people.  And of that bunch of people 2 percent is lethal on average. 

If we go about not following recommendations and not being vigiliant and you go about walking around nonchalantly, like they did in Italy, you may be spreading it and becoming an accessory to murder. 

Humble yourself and stay home if you can.

[Dr. Dan]

                                                                             

I concur with Kahane Was Right BT. The current and
potential severity of this modern "plague" should not
be underestimated. That's not to say that the other issues
affecting today's world should be  ignored,marginalized or undermined in any way, but this one has to take priority for now.

logical and excellent to the point

[Dr. Dan]

I heard last night that cafes and restaurants will close in my country because of this. Do you have any idea how this affects an economy dependent on tourism? When the suicide rate rises, as it will, will you be responsible for all those lost lives?

which is more important. The death of millions of people including family members or the economy?

[Dr. Dan]

From Rabbi Michael Skobac:

The virus is called Corona, in Hebrew קרא נא, which means please call out (to Me). How should we call out to Hashem?
The virus is also called Covid-19 – the word Covid shows up in a Mishnah at the beginning of the fifth perek of masechet Berachot. It says there אין עומדין להתפלל אלא מתוך כובד דראש – a person should not get up to pray unless he has covid rosh."
What is covid? Rashi says it means humility, recognizing we are nothing and we can’t do anything without Hashem. We need to call out to Him with covid(humility). And what should we call out? 19 – the 19 berachot of the Amida.

 

[Ulli]

I"m a bit horrified to see my fellow JTFer's reactions to this.

This virus is no joke.  Yes it won't kill many healthy individuals.  However this thing is so contagious that one person can spread it to a bunch of people.  And of that bunch of people 2 percent is lethal. 

If we go about not buying it and go about walking around nonchalantly, like they did in Italy, you may be spreading it and becoming an accessory to murder.

This is my fear too. For most of us it is not lethal. But if it finds the vulnarable persons it will be very bad outcome.

[Dr. Dan]

This is my fear too. For most of us it is not lethal. But if it finds the vulnarable persons it will be very bad outcome.

I've been stuck at home since Saturday since the panic became much stronger. It's very painful and I'm starting to go stir crazy.  However, I'm taking the opportunity to wear tfillin regularly, read Jewish books, spend time with wife and kids, and come on the forum.

[Ulli]

which is more important. The death of millions of people including family members or the economy?

Of cause the persons. But I think we have to balance between the interests to some degree.

If we go to far on the side of protection, it can cause more death. This is also something to think about.

In my country i.e. some people say the economy should be in shutdown for two years. I don't see how there will be enough food and medicaments produced to save peoples life.

[Ulli]

I've been stuck at home since Saturday since the panic became much stronger. It's very painful and I'm starting to go stir crazy.  However, I'm taking the opportunity to wear tfillin regularly, read Jewish books, spend time with wife and kids, and come on the forum.

You make good use of the time. Hope so they find quickly a vacine.