Re: non Zionist religious Jews

[Dr. Dan]

Today’s non Zionist religious Jews have 0 confidence in the anti religious Israeli government. They hated the first to last prime ministers because many were anti religion. You can’t have an Jewish state without Halacha (and vice versa according to our views)

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

It's complicated. Non Zionist and anti Zionist is different things. Having a Ste with Halacha is complicated as well. It's not easy setting and running such a State

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

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And what about the prime ministers who were not anti religion?  Like Begin for example?  How about so many Biblical Kings who were idolators yet we regret loss of the Jewish Kingdom? This is just an excuse and not the real source of their antizionism. 

[Dr. Dan]

Let’s not lose site of what God requires of us to let us live there. Torah states that if we don’t follow His rules, He will vomit us from the land. Israel is in big trouble because she is steadily getting worse compared to 77 years ago.

[Dr. Dan]

Begin gave up the Sinai. A smarter Jew should know better that doing that was not the Jewish way. And yes, there are non Zionist religious Jews who will make the same mistakes out of ignorance. Israel should be the Jewish state and not just a state of gentilized Jews.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Now just changing the subject.  Begin betraying his principles and giving away land has nothing to do with the question of whether a Jew should be zionistic or not.
Chaim gave a great answer on this week's program. Anti/nonzionism incompatible with real Judaism.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Obviously we all agree we're supposed to follow Torah law in the Land of Israel. There is more Torah observance and study in Israel today than probably ever in history. So it is not all gloom and doom.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If antizionists had their way, much fewer mitzvot could be done in the Land if Arabs controlled it God forbid. So how is that better than the present state of affairs?
Worse than that, Jewish survival would be in peril.  Lest we forget the example of the holocaust and stalinism.

[Dr. Dan]

Zionism: Eretz yisrael is our land. In order to live there, follow God’s rules like no gay pride parades. State of Israel gay pride. non Zionist religious jews are biblical Zionists.  The modern state does not reflect Judaism. If anything most are anti Judaism.

[Dr. Dan]

Not all gloom and doom. Enough doom that the Arabs are seething at as more constantly than ever. Most Israelis are worried everyDay if they will be next with a random stabbing.

[Dr. Dan]

Anti Zionist are the reform and nk Jews.
Non Zionist are a lot of Hasidim etc who work on kiruv and themselves and strengthen the Judaism between generations.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

non Zionist religious jews are biblical Zionists.

There is no such thing.  Biblical zionists were not non-zionist.  They were Jewish nationalists.
This ignores Jewish history. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Many times & long periods of time that Jewish Commonwealth was far from ideal, sometimes led by idol worshiper
Jewish kings. 
Despite this, to lose sovereignty over the land (be forced out) or consider it like any other shtetl on the earth was anathema to Biblical Judaism & considered tragedy.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The religious non-zionists of today are clueless about Jewish history when they make false/ignorant claims about supposed righteousness of their hashkafa. They think zionism is not part of "The Mesorah."
-Israel has gay pride event- is just ex post facto self-justification

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Real reason is not self-justifications but: some great rabbis of zionist era were MISTAKEN, opposed Jewish settlement of EY, &current mainstream hashkafa is that u cannot say great rabbis were mistaken. So even after proven wrong by history, still follow those bankrupt ideas of 1870-1940

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The opposition to zionism became an entrenched political war and mainstream religion hardened to be more inflexible & rely further on tradition of recent halachic works. Since nothing there as part of enshrined "system" about running a state, & we forgot, that must not be Judaism (until moshiach).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Original opposition of these rabbis stemmed from previous shabtai tzvi disaster, fears of another possible failed messianic movement, &conviction that an attempt to retake EY couldnt possibly be successful in hands of seculars & secularists & redemption can't come that way. They were proven wrong

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Redemption came 10 years too late for millions of Europe's Jews. It couldve come sooner had the whole Jewish world united around the project. Instead, infighting, slow. refusal.
Redemption came through blood&sacrifice, & Hashem blessed us when we did that. Not through prayer alone.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Very religious Nonzionist-because-imperfect-State Jews have no answer to what actually happened in history. They hunker down in very new, modern lifestyle they claim is old. A failure to grasp the threat to survival to kick can down the road & say statehood is for some future ideal time only

[Amrafael]

So religious jews are antizionist because they hate antizionists? lol Fire on fire. I think religious jews should be the water. Stand firm in what you believe in, and in what you are against. Only then will people leave the left.

[Dr. Dan]

If one believes in God’s statutes of eretz yisrael and His promise to us: to live there and make it a holy place, or else consequences, that makes a Jew a Biblical Zionist.

[Dr. Dan]

My definition:
A Jewish Zionist believes in the modern state of Israel and supports the govt. and culture no matter what. Eg AIPAC

[Dr. Dan]

My definition:
A kahanist is a religious Jew who lives in Israel if he is able to and helps it go in the direction of being a Jewish nation and not just a nation of Gentilized Jews. Aka religious Zionist modern and biblical

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

to live there and make it a holy place, or else consequences

The fact there are consequences when we do wrong is true in all facets of life. This is highly oversimplified and belittles connection to our homeland

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

As for "Make it a holy place" there are wildly different definitions of what that would entail, especially among "nonzionists."
Are we commanded to settle the land or not? This q has nothing to do with who is the current PM or what parades they have there.