American first, Jew second

[Trumpeldor]

What is so wrong with identifying foremost as an American?

[Trumpeldor]

Because it is self-hating to do so.

Would identifying as a Jew first and an American second make me a self-hating American?

[Daniel]

Identifying foremost as an American should be banned.

[Trumpeldor]

Because it is self-hating to do so.

Would identifying as a Jew first and an American second make me a self-hating American?

No.

Why does it work one way and not the other?

[RationalThought110]

Because it is self-hating to do so.

It will lead to assimilation. In Ancient Persia, it almost led to a Holocaust and in America, it is causing a spiritual Holocaust.

Are you referring to Purim?  How is it that what led to the actions of Hamen?

[RationalThought110]

What is so wrong with identifying foremost as an American?

Do some people accuse you of having a "dual-loyalty"?   It's not like Israel does anything to undermine the US. 


Contrast that to Mexico and some other countries.  When Iran's president visited the US, there were some people with a clear loyalty to Iran who were praising Iran's president. 

[RationalThought110]

Identifying foremost as an American should be banned.

I disagree because then nobody will feel any patriotism towards the US.

[Daniel]

Because it is self-hating to do so.

Would identifying as a Jew first and an American second make me a self-hating American?

That's an excellent point. Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them self-hating. I think too often people are very glib at using that "self-hating" term towards anyone who disagrees with them.

[RationalThought110]

Explain more about what happened in ancient Persia.

[Trumpeldor]

You have to be loyal to Israel in order to be loyal to America. If America is not loyal to Israel first, G-d will destroy America because He said in The Bible that He will bless those that bless us and curse those that curse us.

America existed just fine before 1948.

[RationalThought110]

You have to be loyal to Israel in order to be loyal to America. If America is not loyal to Israel first, G-d will destroy America because He said in The Bible that He will bless those that bless us and curse those that curse us.

I agree.  The evil CFR/Bilderberg groups have forced the US into forcing bad policies upon Israel.  They want people to think "What's good for CFR/Bilderberg is good for the US, which is good for Israel."   Wrong.   What's good for Israel, is good for the US and CFR/Bilderberg groups are corrupt and full of vices. 

[RationalThought110]

America existed just fine before 1948.

Hasn't Britain worsened significantly since it started occupying Israel?

[RationalThought110]

The Jews wanted to celebrate with The King in a Persian banquet so G-d punished them for celebrating Non-Jewish celebrations. That's why Chaim says Jews shouldn't celebrate American holidays, not even The Fourth of July.

Is it wrong to acknowledge the fourth of July?  What about Memorial Day?  I think the military is deserving of a parade or any other celebration. 

[Trumpeldor]

I don't agree with Chaim on American holidays.

Yacov,
Are you going to explain to me your position on how being an American first makes someone a self-hating Jew?

I would really like to know why.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

What is so wrong with identifying foremost as an American?

First, while this may not bother some, doing so is accepting the Galut (exile). Second if a Jew views themselves as an "American" first, then they will ultimately be killing themselves not only spiritually but also physically. I am quite sure that there will be a day when there will be a rise in anti-Semitism in America and ultimately there will likely be a Holocaust in America, perhaps not soon but someday. Because of that we must accept that we are Jews first because whether we want to admit it or not, our enemies will remind us, just like they did in Germany.

*I don't mean to offend any Righteous Gentile posters and I'm sure that you will stand by us even if the rest of America does someday rise against us but we (The Jews) must accept that we can't run away from our problems and pretend that a Holocaust can never happen again.

[Trumpeldor]

Why don't you ask Chaim about it? He could explain my answer better.

You made a controversial statement and it is your intellectual obligation to answer it. Chaim encourages debate and discourages people agreeing with him 100% of the time. 

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

I don't agree with Chaim on American holidays.

Yacov,
Are you going to explain to me your position on how being an American first makes someone a self-hating Jew?

I would really like to know why.

A Jew claiming that he is an American first is simply covering-up his Jewish history. He is a Jew and he must accept that, there are no German-Jews or American-Jews or Russian-Jews, there are only Jews. They may have come from Russia or Germany or America but they are still Jews and being a Jew is both a nationality and a race, we must not allow either aspect to be overlooked

[Trumpeldor]

What is so wrong with identifying foremost as an American?

First, while this may not bother some, doing so is accepting the Galut (exile).

To answer your first point, so what if one is accepting the Galut? Jews lived outside of Israel for two thousand years. In that period, Jews often learned the languages of their host countries and made innumerable contributions to society and culture. Certain Sephardic Jews even rose to the highest levels of government and held the most prestigious jobs, all while making notable contributions to the Jewish religion.

[Lisa]

Why should it ever be one or the other?

Judaism is a religion, not a nationality.  Are you saying we should all be loyal to the current evil corrupt government of Israel as opposed to America?

[RationalThought110]

A Jew claiming that he is an American first is simply covering-up his Jewish history. He is a Jew and he must accept that, there are no German-Jews or American-Jews or Russian-Jews, there are only Jews. They may have come from Russia or Germany or America but they are still Jews and being a Jew is both a nationality and a race, we must not allow either aspect to be overlooked
[/quote]


I think Yacov said it was Napolean who eliminated autonomy of Jews being a state within a state.  So in that sense, Jews aren't exactly a nationality within a state.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

What is so wrong with identifying foremost as an American?

First, while this may not bother some, doing so is accepting the Galut (exile).

To answer your first point, so what if one is accepting the Galut? Jews lived outside of Israel for two thousand years. In that period, Jews often learned the languages of their host countries and made innumerable contributions to society and culture. Certain Sephardic Jews even rose to the highest levels of government and held the most prestigious jobs, all while making notable contributions to the Jewish religion.

And during those 2 thousand years how much persecution did we go through? We don't belong in the Galut we belong in our land, the land of Israel.

[Trumpeldor]

I don't agree with Chaim on American holidays.

Yacov,
Are you going to explain to me your position on how being an American first makes someone a self-hating Jew?

I would really like to know why.

A Jew claiming that he is an American first is simply covering-up his Jewish history. He is a Jew and he must accept that, there are no German-Jews or American-Jews or Russian-Jews, there are only Jews. They may have come from Russia or Germany or America but they are still Jews and being a Jew is both a nationality and a race, we must not allow either aspect to be overlooked

1. Why must someone accept being foremost a Jew? Isn't it up to the individual to choose their group identification? Isn't that what freedom is according to the founding fathers?

2. Judaism is a race now? There is no biological evidence of this.

[Eliezer Ben Avraham]

Why should it ever be one or the other?

Judaism is a religion, not a nationality.  Are you saying we should all be loyal to the current evil corrupt government of Israel as opposed to America?

The current Israeli government is not a Jewish Government. There are 10 or so Arabs in the Knesset there is very little that qualifies the Israeli government as a Jewish government. Judaism is a nationality, we are a people- a nation. God gave promises to the Jewish people and later to Am Yisrael, the Jewish nation

[Trumpeldor]

Why should it ever be one or the other?

Judaism is a religion, not a nationality.  Are you saying we should all be loyal to the current evil corrupt government of Israel as opposed to America?

Chaim argues that Jews belong in Israel and that it is a sin for a Jew to hold political office outside of Israel or participate in American culture. In his view, it is clearly one or the unacceptable alternative.

[Trumpeldor]

What is so wrong with identifying foremost as an American?

First, while this may not bother some, doing so is accepting the Galut (exile).

To answer your first point, so what if one is accepting the Galut? Jews lived outside of Israel for two thousand years. In that period, Jews often learned the languages of their host countries and made innumerable contributions to society and culture. Certain Sephardic Jews even rose to the highest levels of government and held the most prestigious jobs, all while making notable contributions to the Jewish religion.

And during those 2 thousand years how much persecution did we go through? We don't belong in the Galut we belong in our land, the land of Israel.

If you feel so strongly about it, then go there!

Odds are you will not, though.