JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: admin on February 27, 2008, 02:37:14 PM
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I would not eat it. Just the though of it is disgusting. I don't even like to eat vegetarian pepperoni in pizza at kosher pizza stores.
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WHAT? The Mashiach will say that pork will become kosher?
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Really? Pork becomes kosher when the Mashiach comes?
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No, its not the laws that will change G-d forbid, but the nature of the pig. G-d never said dont eat pig, pig is not Kosher because it is not an animal that Chews in Cud, but it does have splitt hoves. The Ben Ish Chai explains that will the Torah be canceled? G-d forbid, BUT what will happen is that the nature of the pig will change, where it will chew its cud (which would then make it a kosher animal). (Also im not exactly sure if everyone agrees if this is something that will change in nature or this is an allegory to something else- for example (what I think) Edom is referred to as "the pig", maybe it has something to do with that. Or both. BUT for sure everyone agrees that no Mitzva will be canceled ever.
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No! Pigs are the most disgusting animal they are flooded with disease and are just plan unhealthy
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I will never eat pork for all eternity! O0
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I hate pork, but I'm not a Jew. Regarding Chazir in Hebrew, it sounds similar to the Arabic name for pig. Once, the only muslim I ever met told me that it means "devolution". Even if he doesn't believe in the Evolution Theory, he says that the rest of living beings develop and improve, but the pig is in "devolution", gradually "retutning" to pre-Craetion state and so it affects people who eat it.
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Are Noahides allowed to eat pork?
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I think so, Scriabin, but double check with some other members to be sure. :::D
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Are Noahides allowed to eat pork?
Yes, Noahides are allowed to eat any sorts of animals providing they have previoulsy killed them. Except homo sapiens. lol
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I think so, Scriabin, but double check with some other members to be sure. :::D
I actually like pork.
(I'm just being honest, not trying to irritate members of the forum.)
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I can accept the allegory to Edom idea, but come on. Certain animals are not going to literally start chewing cuds just because the Moshiach comes. Cud-chewing is a biological function of ruminants. Will the pig grow a new stomach too so this can take place? There is not one scripture that indicates this. Why stop at the pig? Maybe camels will start being born with cloven hoofs and then they can be eaten too. Maybe shellfish will develop fins and scales. And the root of "chazir" might mean return, but what is the pig "returning" to if it becomes kosher? It never chewed the cud before, and wasn't created to chew the cud. I could make up just as good of an answer. It means all the pigs in Israel will "return" to all the Gentile nations they came from when Moshiach comes. Or maybe it has nothing to do with Moshiach and means that if a Jew ever buys a pig, he must "return" it.
You dont understand. I personally have heard it but not indepth, BUT it is discussed amoung the sages and not camels, so it is valid. G-d changing the nature of an animal is not too-farfetched because G-d is Allmighty and even if you want Miracles He did make many Miracles in the past and will in the future.
Whether it will happen or not is not hard to belive, If G-d wants it can happen, if it wasn't meant to, then it wont physically happen, either way its not a problem.
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbavores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbavores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbivores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
What will happen after the 1,000 years are up?
I also heard that when Moshiach comes, all holidays will be abolished except for Purim and Yom Kippur. Kippurim means "like Purim". But why would people say this if it is a commandment in The Torah that we will have to go to The Temple 3 times a year in The World To Come and that even Righteous Gentile will be required to make the pilgrimage to Jerusalem every Sukkot?
I dont have that exactly in my mind right now, but I remember that the Rabbi asked will it really happen that the holidays will be canceled? NO, but ...... - Its not literal you have to read the whole thing and the commenteries to really understand. Sometimes straightfoward literal understandings of the sayings of the Sages could make us think the wrong things.
About after 1,000 - I dont really know except the little here and their that I heard (but very little and its not that important right now I belive).
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The Lubavitcher Rebbe stated that in the Days of Moshiach the possibility of the pig becoming clean is possible.
One thing's for certain...should that day ever come, the Jews will take over the Bar-B-Que Restaurant business! :::D
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbavores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
So it's allegorical like reincarnation.
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No! Pigs are the most disgusting animal they are flooded with disease and are just plan unhealthy
Pig share 95% of their DNA with humans, and are used as organ donors.
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I know this is irrelevant but muslims believe that when the messiah comes, which will be Jesus, he will remove pigs from the earth.
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I know this is irrelevant but muslims believe that when the messiah comes, which will be Jesus, he will remove pigs from the earth.
Muslims believe the Messiah will be Jesus?
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I know this is irrelevant but muslims believe that when the messiah comes, which will be Jesus, he will remove pigs from the earth.
Muslims believe the Messiah will be Jesus?
Yep and they also believe that when Jesus does return he will rule for 40 years......this happening towards the end of the world.
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PORK WILL NOT BECOME KOSHER WHEN THE MASSIAH COMES.
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbavores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
So it's allegorical like reincarnation.
Nice try. Gilgulim are not allegory.
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbivores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
What will happen after the 1,000 years are up?
I also heard that when Moshiach comes, all holidays will be abolished except for Purim and Yom Kippur. Kippurim means "like Purim". But why would people say this if it is a commandment in The Torah that we will have to go to The Temple 3 times a year in The World To Come and that even Righteous Gentile will be required to make the pilgrimage to Jerusalem every Sukkot?
Re: What will happen when...
We will start over a new world. There are many other worlds we will go through corresponding to the Sefirot. This 7,000 year period is Chesed within Gevurah which is why it appears so difficult (but really has a lot of good inside). The next world I believe will be chesed of chesed and things will be a lot easier. :)
Re: When Moshiach comes..
I agree with Tzvi on this. The holidays will still exist just not in the same way they do now. They will be "batul" nullilfied, because everyday will have the holiness of a holiday but they will still be observed and will remain in existence.
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No! Pigs are the most disgusting animal they are flooded with disease and are just plan unhealthy
Pig share 95% of their DNA with humans, and are used as organ donors.
Monkeys share 99% DNA. :::D
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbivores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
What will happen after the 1,000 years are up?
I also heard that when Moshiach comes, all holidays will be abolished except for Purim and Yom Kippur. Kippurim means "like Purim". But why would people say this if it is a commandment in The Torah that we will have to go to The Temple 3 times a year in The World To Come and that even Righteous Gentile will be required to make the pilgrimage to Jerusalem every Sukkot?
Re: What will happen when...
We will start over a new world. There are many other worlds we will go through corresponding to the Sefirot. This 7,000 year period is Chesed within Gevurah which is why it appears so difficult (but really has a lot of good inside). The next world I believe will be chesed of chesed and things will be a lot easier. :)
Re: When Moshiach comes..
I agree with Tzvi on this. The holidays will still exist just not in the same way they do now. They will be "batul" nullilfied, because everyday will have the holiness of a holiday but they will still be observed and will remain in existence.
Aren't we in The Sixth World now? After the 1,000 years, The Seventh World will be a World of Shabbat.
What will happen after The Seventh World?
I have heard that the previous Five World correspond to Pre-Historic times and the previous generations of humans before Adam lived then. Each day of Creation was another one of the 6 Worlds. The current World is The World of The Sixth Day of Creation. This is literally a 6,000 year World counting from Adam but the previous World were a multiple of 6,000 accounting for the billions of years of Science.
You are talking about the last 1,000 years within this 7,000 year period. I am talking about the other 7,000 year periods we will have.
The "billions years of sceince" is not to be accepted as a given but taken with a grain of salt because
a) it results from massive extrapolation beyond the observable experiementation that was done
b) does not account for fact that elements might have interacted differently before the big bang.
c) falls apart if you accept the Biblical account of creation which says that G-d made a ready made world e.g. full grown trees not seeds, a full grown man, not a baby which means there already was a certain amount of artificial appearance of age that G-d put into creation which would really mess the scientists experiments up just as if a scientist tested Adam on day 1 they would conclude that he was twenty something but would be totally wrong.
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbavores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
So it's allegorical like reincarnation.
Nice try. Gilgulim are not allegory.
Of course it is according to the vast majority of rabbinical authority...maybe not yours according to what you were taught. And not everything you were taught by your rebbe is truth to 100% for all Jews.
I think the laying of the wolf with lamb is what will actually happen..that natural carnivores will become herbavores..that the presence of the moshiach will bring a peace to all living things.
Reincarnation, on the other hand, has no point to it. It simply means that people have many chances to live and die and live and die. Tzvi, we only have one life, as far as we know. We should live it to the fullest and the most righteous without worrying about later. That is a Jewish principle. Dying and being reincarnated and dying and becoming reincarnated over and over again is a Hindu and Buddhist principle (not that there is anything wrong with that) It's not a Jewish principle.
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbivores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
What will happen after the 1,000 years are up?
I also heard that when Moshiach comes, all holidays will be abolished except for Purim and Yom Kippur. Kippurim means "like Purim". But why would people say this if it is a commandment in The Torah that we will have to go to The Temple 3 times a year in The World To Come and that even Righteous Gentile will be required to make the pilgrimage to Jerusalem every Sukkot?
Re: What will happen when...
We will start over a new world. There are many other worlds we will go through corresponding to the Sefirot. This 7,000 year period is Chesed within Gevurah which is why it appears so difficult (but really has a lot of good inside). The next world I believe will be chesed of chesed and things will be a lot easier. :)
Re: When Moshiach comes..
I agree with Tzvi on this. The holidays will still exist just not in the same way they do now. They will be "batul" nullilfied, because everyday will have the holiness of a holiday but they will still be observed and will remain in existence.
Aren't we in The Sixth World now? After the 1,000 years, The Seventh World will be a World of Shabbat.
What will happen after The Seventh World?
I have heard that the previous Five World correspond to Pre-Historic times and the previous generations of humans before Adam lived then. Each day of Creation was another one of the 6 Worlds. The current World is The World of The Sixth Day of Creation. This is literally a 6,000 year World counting from Adam but the previous World were a multiple of 6,000 accounting for the billions of years of Science.
You are talking about the last 1,000 years withing this 7,000 year period. I am talking about the other 7,000 year periods we will have.
The "billions years of sceince" is not to be accepted as a given but taken with a grain of salt because
a) it results from massive extrapolation beyond the observable experiementation that was done
b) does not account for fact that elements might have interacted differently before the big bang.
c) falls apart if you accept the Biblical account of creation which says that G-d made a ready made world e.g. full grown trees not seeds, a full grown man, not a baby which means there already was a certain amount of artificial appearance of age that G-d put into creation which would really mess the scientists experiments up just as if a scientist tested Adam on day 1 they would conclude that he was twenty something but would be totally wrong.
I don't completely agree with you, but accept your interpretation as a possibility. I believe interpretation of what is written in the Torah about the creation of the universe and life can be left open. Science sometimes shows us how Gd uses His fingers. I do agree that scientific theories should be taken with a grain of salt, but so should primitive interpretations of the creation of life and the universe. As we evolve spiritually and scientifically and hopefully, humanely, we will be able to read and interpret and understand the Hebrew text of the Torah much much better. Religious people need to understand that science is Gd's handywork, and scientists need to understand that there is a higher power bigger than their own miniscual understanding of how everything works.
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Just want to help end this reincarnation debate by stating that while there is reincarnation in Judaism it is greatly misunderstood by most people.
There is a reincarnation of the MISSION of the person, not a reincarnation of their actual soul and life force.
Anyone who has learned Shaar Hagilgulim in depth (by the Arizal) will know this.
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Just want to help end this reincarnation debate by stating that while there is reincarnation in Judaism it is greatly misunderstood by most people.
There is a reincarnation of the MISSION of the person, not a reincarnation of their actual soul and life force.
Anyone who has learned Shaar Hagilgulim in depth (by the Arizal) will know this.
what does this mean "Mission of the person"?
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Just want to help end this reincarnation debate by stating that while there is reincarnation in Judaism it is greatly misunderstood by most people.
There is a reincarnation of the MISSION of the person, not a reincarnation of their actual soul and life force.
Anyone who has learned Shaar Hagilgulim in depth (by the Arizal) will know this.
what does this mean "Mission of the person"?
e.g. somebody has to put the Arabs in their place and show some Jewish strength so the Jews can be safe there. Rabbi Kahane got killed so now Chaim has that job. It's not the same soul. But the same mission of Rabbi Kahane.
I am trying to do the mission of the Lubavitcher Rebbe and so hopefully are the other Chabad Chassidim..
Does that make sense?
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Just want to help end this reincarnation debate by stating that while there is reincarnation in Judaism it is greatly misunderstood by most people.
There is a reincarnation of the MISSION of the person, not a reincarnation of their actual soul and life force.
Anyone who has learned Shaar Hagilgulim in depth (by the Arizal) will know this.
what does this mean "Mission of the person"?
e.g. somebody has to put the Arabs in their place and show some Jewish strength so the Jews can be safe there. Rabbi Kahane got killed so now Chaim has that job. It's not the same soul. But the same mission of Rabbi Kahane.
I am trying to do the mission of the Lubavitcher Rebbe and so hopefully are the other Chabad Chassidim..
Does that make sense?
Absolutely...
there seems, however, some Jews who believe in actual reincarnation...like dying and being reborn in another body. Care to comment on this pork being kosher section at the time of Moshiach?
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Pig will be kosher. Now some say that's an analogy for how we will learn Torah. We will learn it in a way of girsah (eating [learning] a lot very fast).
Will the physical pig also be kosher? I want to ask my Rabbi about it before I say so. If you really want to know remind me to ask him if I don't mention it again.
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefardim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefaradim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
Chaim disagrees with this..it had been asked several times..and what he says contradicts what you are saying.
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No! Pigs are the most disgusting animal they are flooded with disease and are just plan unhealthy
Pig share 95% of their DNA with humans, and are used as organ donors.
Monkeys share 99% DNA. :::D
I don't want to be eating them either ^-^
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefaradim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
Chaim disagrees with this..it had been asked several times..and what he says contradicts what you are saying.
Hes in the minority and he is not a Rabbi.
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefaradim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
Me, Dan or Chaim don't care that we are the minority. There is nothing wrong with holding the minority opinion if you think it is correct and that is the Torah truth. R' Kahane Zs'l was the minority opinion in his generation and now more and more people are seeing that he was correct. Judaism is not a popularity contest. It is searching for the Torah truth and abiding by the Torah. Only when the Sanhedrin decides something it must be abided by in Public and we don't have a Sanhedrin.
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefaradim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
Me, Dan or Chaim don't care that we are the minority. There is nothing wrong with holding the minority opinion if you think it is correct and that is the Torah truth. R' Kahane Zs'l was the minority opinion in his generation and now more and more people are seeing that he was correct. Judaism is not a popularity contest. It is searching for the Torah truth and abiding by the Torah.
Okay, but then dont say publicly your opinion, and even more so trash what is accepted by everyone else. I would take the word of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai over anyone else's (and thats talking about big Talmedi Hachamim, how much more so..)
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefaradim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
Me, Dan or Chaim don't care that we are the minority. There is nothing wrong with holding the minority opinion if you think it is correct and that is the Torah truth. R' Kahane Zs'l was the minority opinion in his generation and now more and more people are seeing that he was correct. Judaism is not a popularity contest. It is searching for the Torah truth and abiding by the Torah.
Okay, but then dont say publicly your opinion, and even more so trash what is accepted by everyone else. I would take the word of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai over anyone else's (and thats talking about big Talmedi Hachamim, how much more so..)
Heheh...you sound like a dictator..."Dont' say your opinion publically." I'll damn well say whatever I want publically!
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I can trash others opinons if I hold of a minority opinion. I only need to be quiet if all of Israel accepted something or the Sanhedrin made a ruling and I hold of the other opinion. Only then must I keep my opinion to myself and speak privately about it. If most of Israel holds one way, but there is a minority opinion the other way, then I am permitted to publically argue and debate the Torah logic of the other side.
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judaism does not work by democracy.
The Saadya Gaon, a great sephardi rabbi, rejected reincarnation. He died 942CE. That is over a thousand years closer to sinai than rav mizrachi, or tzvi.
Kabbalism has become very popular throughout the jewish world.. Almost everybody accepts the zohar..
Most ashkenazim accept it, and most sephardim.
I have heard of sephardi scholars that reject it. eg those that follow the RAMBAM very strictly. I have not heard of that many ashkenazim that reject it..
I do not see any evidence of it being accepted throughout the sephardi world but not the ashkenazi world.
The Arizal - a HUGE ashkenazi rabbi, is accepted by almost everybody. So is sephardi, but french educated, RAMBAN.
Again though
judaism does not work by democracy.
And this widesspread kabbalism, was probably not the case prior to the RAMBAM. It may have started a bit after, like, RAMBAN time.
So, keep an open mind. Open to both possibilities.
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I think a lot of people misunderstand the nature of machloket, disagreements between Torah scholars.
In many cases the Rambam and Ramban for instance are saying the same thing in different wording and people assume they completely discount the other one's opinion. It's a bit ridiculous.
All of these scholars had tremendous respect for each other's opinons and the differences between them are almost never as great as people make them out to be.
We don't "trash" the opnion of another Torah scholar.
All machlokes in the Talmud derives from a singular Machlokes between Shammai and Hillel. And even in this dispute neither one is really wrong. We pasken like Hillel in the times of Galut and will pasken like Shammai in the times of Moshiach.
It's different perscriptions for different situations.
Now some may wish to differentiate disagreements on issues of fact. However even these issues can be resolved upon further analysis.
In the end it's "Elu VeElu Divrei Elokim Chaim" with legitimate Torah scholars each one's opinon is the word of the living G-d. There is no place for "trashing" another Torah scholar.
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefaradim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
Me, Dan or Chaim don't care that we are the minority. There is nothing wrong with holding the minority opinion if you think it is correct and that is the Torah truth. R' Kahane Zs'l was the minority opinion in his generation and now more and more people are seeing that he was correct. Judaism is not a popularity contest. It is searching for the Torah truth and abiding by the Torah.
Okay, but then dont say publicly your opinion, and even more so trash what is accepted by everyone else. I would take the word of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai over anyone else's (and thats talking about big Talmedi Hachamim, how much more so..)
CULT!
this mentality, that oh, this rabbi is a giant and who are you to disagree, how dare you disagreee with him etc.. is dangerous.
But it is fair to say this rabbi is an expert, you are not. And therefore if you want to differ with him, then you could take your concern to an expert rabbi, and see if it is valid.
Often, great rabbis disagree with great rabbis.
The prevailing view in our times where there is this "he is a great gadol" mentality. tends to be "who are we to choose between these 2 giants". At least that approach is more reasonable than "tvis"! The mentality comes from the same world.
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<snip>
In many cases the Rambam and Ramban for instance are saying the same thing in different wording and people assume they completely account the other one's opinion. It's a bit ridiculous.
<snip>
ramban was a kabbalist. rambam from his voluminous writings, was not.
people may claim rambam was, or that they say the same thing. Because they cannot bring themselves to admit that they are not following the RAMBAM. Because he is a gadol`s gadol
For example, nowhere in the rambam`s works, is the concept of following the gedolim(or daas torah). Or following your local rabbi. etc. People cannot bring themselves to accept, that their ideas about halacha are not in the rambam.
I have heard hichot mamrim twisted to mean follow the gedolim. The rambam talks about following the sanhedrin. And they fluff the details, and say "well, no sanhedrin, so follow the rabbis" - by that they mean their rabbis.
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People who reject gilgulim are infact the vast minority, the vast Majority accept it, and accept the Zohar, thats a fact. All Sefaradim accept it (by all I mean learned Talmedi Hachamim who get it from Tradition), as do the vast majority of Askenazim except maybe a few individual moderndox types (who by the way dont get from tradition but from their personal opinion.
Me, Dan or Chaim don't care that we are the minority. There is nothing wrong with holding the minority opinion if you think it is correct and that is the Torah truth. R' Kahane Zs'l was the minority opinion in his generation and now more and more people are seeing that he was correct. Judaism is not a popularity contest. It is searching for the Torah truth and abiding by the Torah.
Okay, but then dont say publicly your opinion, and even more so trash what is accepted by everyone else. I would take the word of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai over anyone else's (and thats talking about big Talmedi Hachamim, how much more so..)
CULT!
this mentality, that oh, this rabbi is a giant and who are you to disagree, how dare you disagreee with him etc.. is dangerous.
But it is fair to say this rabbi is an expert, you are not. And therefore if you want to differ with him, then you could take your concern to an expert rabbi, and see if it is valid.
Often, great rabbis disagree with great rabbis.
The prevailing view in our times where there is this "he is a great gadol" mentality. tends to be "who are we to choose between these 2 giants". At least that approach is more reasonable than "tvis"! The mentality comes from the same world.
::) Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, is farr more smarter then anyone else alive today. He learned with Eliyahu Hanavi- if you are not familiar with Rashby then thats your loss, and shows how much you know.
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Yeah, but R' Shimon Bar Yochai never wrote the Zohar! If you want to know what Eliyahu Hanavi really said than learn the Sefer Tanah D'vei Eliyahu written from the words of an actual Amorah who learned with Eliyahu Hanavi as stated by the Talmud, and this Sefer actually did exist very early from before the Rambam.
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<snip>
::) Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, is farr more smarter then anyone else alive today. He learned with Eliyahu Hanavi- if you are not familiar with Rashby then thats your loss, and shows how much you know.
You show your mentality. It is anti intellectual.
Also,
The idea that Rashbi(rabbi shimon...) learnt from eliyahu hanavi. Can you reference that to the talmud?
Or are you basing yourself on a mystical work again.
Rav Mizrachi also speaks the the janitor`s english , like you. "farr more smarter" is not english. How long have you lived in an english speaking country, and is english your first language? were you born in an english speaking country? Rav mizrach has an excuse. He is clearly israeli.
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jdlforever: "...menchaned..."
This must be the Jewish version of "Hebronics"...using a common noun as a verbal construct, when no such verb exists in the English language.
In the same was as "he b disrespecting me".
Example: "He's a real mensch. Transmogrifies to "He menchans a gentleman out of any young man."
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbivores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
What will happen after the 1,000 years are up?
I also heard that when Moshiach comes, all holidays will be abolished except for Purim and Yom Kippur. Kippurim means "like Purim". But why would people say this if it is a commandment in The Torah that we will have to go to The Temple 3 times a year in The World To Come and that even Righteous Gentile will be required to make the pilgrimage to Jerusalem every Sukkot?
Re: What will happen when...
We will start over a new world. There are many other worlds we will go through corresponding to the Sefirot. This 7,000 year period is Chesed within Gevurah which is why it appears so difficult (but really has a lot of good inside). The next world I believe will be chesed of chesed and things will be a lot easier. :)
Re: When Moshiach comes..
I agree with Tzvi on this. The holidays will still exist just not in the same way they do now. They will be "batul" nullilfied, because everyday will have the holiness of a holiday but they will still be observed and will remain in existence.
Aren't we in The Sixth World now? After the 1,000 years, The Seventh World will be a World of Shabbat.
What will happen after The Seventh World?
I have heard that the previous Five World correspond to Pre-Historic times and the previous generations of humans before Adam lived then. Each day of Creation was another one of the 6 Worlds. The current World is The World of The Sixth Day of Creation. This is literally a 6,000 year World counting from Adam but the previous World were a multiple of 6,000 accounting for the billions of years of Science.
You are talking about the last 1,000 years withing this 7,000 year period. I am talking about the other 7,000 year periods we will have.
The "billions years of sceince" is not to be accepted as a given but taken with a grain of salt because
a) it results from massive extrapolation beyond the observable experiementation that was done
b) does not account for fact that elements might have interacted differently before the big bang.
c) falls apart if you accept the Biblical account of creation which says that G-d made a ready made world e.g. full grown trees not seeds, a full grown man, not a baby which means there already was a certain amount of artificial appearance of age that G-d put into creation which would really mess the scientists experiments up just as if a scientist tested Adam on day 1 they would conclude that he was twenty something but would be totally wrong.
I don't completely agree with you, but accept your interpretation as a possibility. I believe interpretation of what is written in the Torah about the creation of the universe and life can be left open. Science sometimes shows us how Gd uses His fingers. I do agree that scientific theories should be taken with a grain of salt, but so should primitive interpretations of the creation of life and the universe. As we evolve spiritually and scientifically and hopefully, humanely, we will be able to read and interpret and understand the Hebrew text of the Torah much much better. Religious people need to understand that science is Gd's handywork, and scientists need to understand that there is a higher power bigger than their own miniscual understanding of how everything works.
The account of creation is hardly "primitive". It may appear so to an untrained eye, but take some time out to learn of the Seder hishtalshelus, the order which G-d used to create the world and you will find a depth and wisdom that I don't think you will find anywhere else.
The scientists and the religious people don't even really disagree. One searches for G-d from the bottom (observable reality) up (faith when we realize there must be something bigger that we don't understand) and the other from the top (faith) down (observable reality when we are able to do that).
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If it is written that the lion (or wolf) is going to lie with the lamb...meaning carnivores will become herbivores, then I highly doubt humans will desire to eat any type of animal in the World to Come.
Thats a remez (allegorical). + maybe this is talking about the time after Moshiah (which will last until the year 7,000).
What will happen after the 1,000 years are up?
I also heard that when Moshiach comes, all holidays will be abolished except for Purim and Yom Kippur. Kippurim means "like Purim". But why would people say this if it is a commandment in The Torah that we will have to go to The Temple 3 times a year in The World To Come and that even Righteous Gentile will be required to make the pilgrimage to Jerusalem every Sukkot?
Re: What will happen when...
We will start over a new world. There are many other worlds we will go through corresponding to the Sefirot. This 7,000 year period is Chesed within Gevurah which is why it appears so difficult (but really has a lot of good inside). The next world I believe will be chesed of chesed and things will be a lot easier. :)
Re: When Moshiach comes..
I agree with Tzvi on this. The holidays will still exist just not in the same way they do now. They will be "batul" nullilfied, because everyday will have the holiness of a holiday but they will still be observed and will remain in existence.
Aren't we in The Sixth World now? After the 1,000 years, The Seventh World will be a World of Shabbat.
What will happen after The Seventh World?
I have heard that the previous Five World correspond to Pre-Historic times and the previous generations of humans before Adam lived then. Each day of Creation was another one of the 6 Worlds. The current World is The World of The Sixth Day of Creation. This is literally a 6,000 year World counting from Adam but the previous World were a multiple of 6,000 accounting for the billions of years of Science.
You are talking about the last 1,000 years withing this 7,000 year period. I am talking about the other 7,000 year periods we will have.
The "billions years of sceince" is not to be accepted as a given but taken with a grain of salt because
a) it results from massive extrapolation beyond the observable experiementation that was done
b) does not account for fact that elements might have interacted differently before the big bang.
c) falls apart if you accept the Biblical account of creation which says that G-d made a ready made world e.g. full grown trees not seeds, a full grown man, not a baby which means there already was a certain amount of artificial appearance of age that G-d put into creation which would really mess the scientists experiments up just as if a scientist tested Adam on day 1 they would conclude that he was twenty something but would be totally wrong.
I don't completely agree with you, but accept your interpretation as a possibility. I believe interpretation of what is written in the Torah about the creation of the universe and life can be left open. Science sometimes shows us how Gd uses His fingers. I do agree that scientific theories should be taken with a grain of salt, but so should primitive interpretations of the creation of life and the universe. As we evolve spiritually and scientifically and hopefully, humanely, we will be able to read and interpret and understand the Hebrew text of the Torah much much better. Religious people need to understand that science is Gd's handywork, and scientists need to understand that there is a higher power bigger than their own miniscual understanding of how everything works.
The account of creation is hardly "primitive". It may appear so to an untrained eye, but take some time out to learn of the Seder hishtalshelus, the order which G-d used to create the world and you will find a depth and wisdom that I don't think you will find anywhere else.
The scientists and the religious people don't even really disagree. One searches for G-d from the bottom (observable reality) up (faith when we realize there must be something bigger that we don't understand) and the other from the top (faith) down (observable reality when we are able to do that).
I'm not saying your interpretation is primitive. However, my understanding of your interpretation might be. You see? I'm one of those Jews that needs to wander the Sinai for 40 years...
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Pork was my favorite meat up until three years ago. Then I read why Jews don't eat pork, and it influenced me to stop eating pork O0
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Pork was my favorite meat up until three years ago. Then I read why Jews don't eat pork, and it influenced me to stop eating pork O0
Health reasons are good enough for not eating pork.
And that is not why jews don`t eat it.
The reason why jews don`t eat it is because jewish law says not to. G-d has given us a sign which meat is forbidden to eat, and pigs come under that. I think the text also happens to say something like (jews) eating pig is an abomination.
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Pork was my favorite meat up until three years ago. Then I read why Jews don't eat pork, and it influenced me to stop eating pork O0
Health reasons are good enough for not eating pork.
And that is not why jews don`t eat it.
The reason why jews don`t eat it is because jewish law says not to. G-d has given us a sign which meat is forbidden to eat, and pigs come under that. I think the text also happens to say something like (jews) eating pig is an abomination.
I didn't say I stopped eating it for health reasons. I know it's not kosher because it doesn't chew its cud, but that's not what influenced me to stop eating it. Pig is the only animal to have split hooves and not chew its cud, therefore, it is holy on the outside but not on the inside, which makes it a fraud. And there's nothing worse than a fraud in Judaism (same in Christianity), it hit me like a ton of bricks.. that's why I stopped eating pork.
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Very good, Vito. I can see you in a few years with Vito's Kosher Italian Pizza & Pasta Restaurant. I would definitely dine there. O0
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Very good, Vito. I can see you in a few years with Vito's Kosher Italian Pizza & Pasta Restaurant. I would definitely dine there. O0
Hey hey hey.. what's with the stereotyping? :::D
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Pork was my favorite meat up until three years ago. Then I read why Jews don't eat pork, and it influenced me to stop eating pork O0
Health reasons are good enough for not eating pork.
And that is not why jews don`t eat it.
The reason why jews don`t eat it is because jewish law says not to. G-d has given us a sign which meat is forbidden to eat, and pigs come under that. I think the text also happens to say something like (jews) eating pig is an abomination.
I didn't say I stopped eating it for health reasons. I know it's not kosher because it doesn't chew its cud, but that's not what influenced me to stop eating it. Pig is the only animal to have split hooves and not chew its cud, therefore, it is holy on the outside but not on the inside, which makes it a fraud. And there's nothing worse than a fraud in Judaism (same in Christianity), it hit me like a ton of bricks.. that's why I stopped eating pork.
Isn't chewing the cud something you see on the outside too. Just like the split hoof.
You could say that a kosher animal is a fraud, since he has chewing the cud (which you call an inward sign). And the split hoof (the hoof of course faces the ground where you cannot see it easily). So he is trying to pretend to be something he isn't, as if he is trying to evade capture, evade G-d's plans!
You could say that a treif animal, one that chews the cud but does not have split hooves, is a fraud, pretending to appear kosher. Since you need 2 signs, and one of them is on his hoof facing the ground where you can't see it.
Fact is, the argument by reasoning. To say that the pig is a fraud, is just insane.
It's not like we need 100 signs and the pig has 99 of them. You only need to look for 2 signs!
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Sorry, I must have missed something. Even when Moshiach comes, pork will still not be kosher as HaShem's law will never change...
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Very good, Vito. I can see you in a few years with Vito's Kosher Italian Pizza & Pasta Restaurant. I would definitely dine there. O0
Hey hey hey.. what's with the stereotyping? :::D
Only among friends, Vito. O0