JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: agnostic on July 14, 2008, 09:36:52 PM
-
I've been coming to this forum for months and reading your discussions, and watching your shows online. I agree with you people completely on Islam, but have some questions. I find that some of you are so religiously fanatic you're not so different than the Muslims who want to exterminate and enslave humanity. When Christianity became dominant in Europe the dark ages occurred. They suppressed science and learning and tortured philosophers and scientists who opposed them. Considering the history of the Christian Wars; the torture and lunacy of parts of the Inquisition; the suppression of learning and science caused by the Christian Dark Ages; and the division of nations into opposing Christian camps in even supposedly secular countries such as North America; then no other conclusion is possible except to say that the introduction of Christianity has to count as the single greatest ideological catastrophe to ever strike Europe. It seems ironic that you people would hate Islam given the fact that you think porn stars should be killed, gays should be killed, atheists and agnostics like myself should be killed, people should forcefully close their business on the Sabbath, women should be stoned to death for adultery, and Israel and America should have the Jewish and Christian versions of sharia law respectively. If you people were born into Islam you would be like them so stop hating them.
-
Agnostic,
You misunderstand what Judaism teaches. We dont force anyone to do mitzvahs. What is most important in Judaism is the idea of Free Will. While it is true that there are people who disobey the word of G-d, they are doing so with the knowledge that they are destroying their souls. When the time comes and Moshiach comes and the entire world knows that Hashem is the One G-d, then we will be able to bring back Jewish law.
There is no comparison to Jewish thought on this and Islam. If you are interested you should study.
Thank you,
muman613
-
agnostic, in judiasm WE dont not teach our children that if they kill muslims or christains they will ascend into heaven , we teach them that killing is wrong, and a mortal sin
-
The only question is what Religion is true and what is false?
You say you dont belive, okay. BUT Imagine for a second that their is a superpower (G-d) who has commanded things that even seem illogical and at times "cruel" , if He is the one who Knows everything and what is good for us, the proper way in life and what is best for all of us, then why should you not follow him?
Now step 2 would be to prove without ANY doubt that that Superpower (G-d), exists and that the instructions (Torah) He gave is true or not. So one would have to look at the different religions and see if the evidence presented is 100% true, or it has human error. If it has human error you can throw it in the garbage (but you would have to make sure it is a true error and not your misunderstanding, so you would need to talk and debate with a Scolar that represents that religion), if after proof and after proof one doesn't find error, and see's that the information can only be Divine, then step #3 is to accept whatever G-d tells you, even if you do not understand what is writtten and even if it doesn't seem logical to you, since it is the Word of G-d you must follow it.
Now if you are jewish I or someone else can refer you to some video's that prove without a doubt that the Torah (both Written and Oral) is a Divine book that no human being could even make it up.
-
Agnostic, since you think sharia is such a tolerant and benevolent thing and the Judeo-Christian Bible so wicked and oppressive, why don't you go move to Egypt or Saudi Arabia so you can enjoy the wonderfully liberal policies there?
-
Agnostic, since you think sharia is such a tolerant and benevolent thing and the Judeo-Christian Bible so wicked and oppressive, why don't you go move to Egypt or Saudi Arabia so you can enjoy the wonderfully liberal policies there?
He would have to convert to islam to get into Saudi Arabia go to Iran
-
nah u want to see intolerance of others, we should staple a israeli flag to agnostic, and send him to iran. then he will have the joy of seeing a liberal society of evils first hand, if he survives maybe he will understand the chaotic society of islam.
-
Agnostic, since you think sharia is such a tolerant and benevolent thing and the Judeo-Christian Bible so wicked and oppressive, why don't you go move to Egypt or Saudi Arabia so you can enjoy the wonderfully liberal policies there?
I despise Islam and religious fanatics in general because they are supremacists. I'm not a liberal either.
-
Agnostic, since you think sharia is such a tolerant and benevolent thing and the Judeo-Christian Bible so wicked and oppressive, why don't you go move to Egypt or Saudi Arabia so you can enjoy the wonderfully liberal policies there?
I despise Islam and religious fanatics in general because they are supremacists. I'm not a liberal either.
Then what are you
-
I despise Islam and religious fanatics in general because they are supremacists. I'm not a liberal either.
You are a lying pig. You just said at the opening of your thread that Christian fundamentalists are worse than "Islamists" (to use a nonsensical PC buzzword your types always love).
-
Liberal Muslim lying filth
-
I've been coming to this forum for months and reading your discussions, and watching your shows online. I agree with you people completely on Islam, but have some questions. I find that some of you are so religiously fanatic you're not so different than the Muslims who want to exterminate and enslave humanity. When Christianity became dominant in Europe the dark ages occurred. They suppressed science and learning and tortured philosophers and scientists who opposed them. Considering the history of the Christian Wars; the torture and lunacy of parts of the Inquisition; the suppression of learning and science caused by the Christian Dark Ages; and the division of nations into opposing Christian camps in even supposedly secular countries such as North America; then no other conclusion is possible except to say that the introduction of Christianity has to count as the single greatest ideological catastrophe to ever strike Europe. It seems ironic that you people would hate Islam given the fact that you think porn stars should be killed, gays should be killed, atheists and agnostics like myself should be killed, people should forcefully close their business on the Sabbath, women should be stoned to death for adultery, and Israel and America should have the Jewish and Christian versions of sharia law respectively. If you people were born into Islam you would be like them so stop hating them.
Troll alert.
-
You are a lying pig. You just said at the opening of your thread that Christian fundamentalists are worse than "Islamists" (to use a nonsensical PC buzzword your types always love).
What the hell are you talking about? Read my post again. Just look at how fanatic you are. Anyone that opposes your supremacist idea is a "lying pig." You are like the Muslims and it's funny how in your conceited minds you think your joke of an organization is going anywhere in a world dominated by science. You need to convert to Islam and join Al-Qaeda.
-
agnostic, in your post above, you forgot to mention what happened when your fellow agnostics/atheists seized power in Russia, China and numerous Third World countries. You forgot to mention how the Marxists murdered or starved to death tens of millions of men, women and children. You forgot to mention how the "enlightened" agnostics/atheists brutally enslaved all of their subjects.
You also forgot to mention that many of the leading Nazis in Hitler's Germany were agnostics/atheists. These highly enlightened National Socialists also sought to eliminate the "darkness" of the "primitive" Bible.
Just thought that I would add these historical footnotes which never seem to appear when people study religion in universities and colleges.
-
You are a lying pig. You just said at the opening of your thread that Christian fundamentalists are worse than "Islamists" (to use a nonsensical PC buzzword your types always love).
What the hell are you talking about? Read my post again. Just look at how fanatic you are. Anyone that opposes your supremacist idea is a "lying pig." You are like the Muslims and it's funny how in your conceited minds you think your joke of an organization is going anywhere in a world dominated by science. You need to convert to Islam and join Al-Qaeda.
Yup troll alert
-
you think people should forcefully close their business on the Sabbath, women should be stoned to death for adultery, and Israel and America should have the Jewish and Christian versions of sharia law respectively.
We do? That's news to me. Nice try.
Btw, what does it mean for someone to forcefully close their business on SHABBAT as opposed to just closing it? What must a person do to forcefully close their business? Perhaps you know nothing about Shabbat, it's clear you know nothing about Judaism or much else.
atheists and agnostics like myself should be killed
Little Jr. has such a big imagination, isn't it special?
-
agnostic, in your post above, you forgot to mention what happened when your fellow agnostics/atheists seized power in Russia, China and numerous Third World countries. You forgot to mention how the Marxists murdered or starved to death tens of millions of men, women and children. You forgot to mention how the "enlightened" agnostics/atheists brutally enslaved all of their subjects.
You also forgot to mention that many of the leading Nazis in Hitler's Germany were agnostics/atheists. These highly enlightened National Socialists also sought to eliminate the "darkness" of the "primitive" Bible.
Just thought that I would add these historical footnotes which never seem to appear when people study religion in universities and colleges.
Chaim, this dolt is just another cheerleader for jihad who wants us to believe that the bad, evil Christians have oppressed the innocent Muzzies for all these years and are unfairly making them out to be the bad guys now. He is like the feminazis whose religion is fighting against Western "white male patriarchy" and consider Muslim slavedriving, clitoris-chopping animals to be nice, decent souls oppressed by evil Christianity and Judaism.
-
Troll alert.
Right. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. What's the point of spreading the word of your organization when any new member that dares questioning your criminal religious fanaticism is banned.
-
your criminal religious fanaticism
Right. It is "criminal" to speak against Nazis who want to kill you just as much as you and me. But it's not criminal to strap on a pack of C4, dress up as an Orthodox rabbi, and walk into a nursing home. ::)
You never answered me as to why you haven't just moved to a sharia state.
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
-
Troll alert.
Right. Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. What's the point of spreading the word of your organization when any new member that dares questioning your criminal religious fanaticism is banned.
You sound like a socialist communist nazi. Your words are identical to the Islamics who condem the Jews Condem the Chrisitans.
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".
So what? This gives us a chance to debate our views with someone.
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
Note to self, nice to Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Agnostics. Mean to Muzzies and Nazzis.
-
agnostic, in your post above, you forgot to mention what happened when your fellow agnostics/atheists seized power in Russia, China and numerous Third World countries. You forgot to mention how the Marxists murdered or starved to death tens of millions of men, women and children. You forgot to mention how the "enlightened" agnostics/atheists brutally enslaved all of their subjects.
You also forgot to mention that many of the leading Nazis in Hitler's Germany were agnostics/atheists. These highly enlightened National Socialists also sought to eliminate the "darkness" of the "primitive" Bible.
Just thought that I would add these historical footnotes which never seem to appear when people study religion in universities and colleges.
How do you know that I'm a socialist? I despise socialism and Communism. Why do you people jump to conclusions so quickly? The Nazis were criminals, the communists are criminals and the religious fanatics are criminals. No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.
-
I do think though that he is not interested in any answer for us. He is, like I said, a cheerleader for jihad. He thinks that Muslim Nazis are a much more minor threat than those evil fundamentalist Christians and Jews, if indeed one at all, and generally people like him think that Muslims are being oppressed by Christians and Jews (like the feminazis do).
But you had a very good point too--that atheists historically have perpetrated horrible atrocities and even holocausts. (Of course, many Nazis were not atheists, but rather polytheists.)
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
Well I certainly can, but he follows the same pattern as previous trolls. They say "you know I really liked this movement until..." or "I watched this forum for a long time". ...... but "you're just like the Muslims, so you don't have a right to criticize them" A shallow argument with no substance and obviously what he was getting at the whole time was "stop criticizing Islam" without all the show and demonstration about his agnosticism and watching the forum etc...
Agnostic needs to understand that straw man arguments won't work. Calling us 'criminal religious fanatics" is a straw man and an insult.
-
No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.
Okay, I will. I will ask you two questions.
1: When was the last time you heard of a follower of Jerry Falwell strapping on a backpack full of dynamite and detonating himself inside a synagogue or mosque?
2: When was the last time you were threatened with death for making pro-atheistic posts in this right-wing, fundamentalist Christian nation?
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".
You called me a lying pig first and said I said Christian fundamentalists are worse than Islamists. I never used the word Islamists and never said you're worse. I said "you're no so different," and you aren't. Let me ask you this: If your Bible said exterminate all agnostics or atheists would you do so?
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".
You called me a lying pig first and said I said Christian fundamentalists are worse than Islamists. I never used the word Islamists and never said you're worse. I said "you're no so different," and you aren't. Let me ask you this: If your Bible said exterminate all agnostics or atheists would you do so?
But the Bible doesn't say that...
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".
You called me a lying pig first and said I said Christian fundamentalists are worse than Islamists. I never used the word Islamists and never said you're worse. I said "you're no so different," and you aren't. Let me ask you this: If your Bible said exterminate all agnostics or atheists would you do so?
This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.
-
You do realize this is a religious site and yet you come in here trying to put your Stalinist beliefs and you expect everyone to follow along then you are just coming her to waste your time. Go to some commie site they will love you goofball.
-
I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?
Note to self, nice to Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Agnostics. Mean to Muzzies and Nazzis.
OK after reading other post, I am adding United Nations to Mean list.
-
No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.
Okay, I will. I will ask you two questions.
1: When was the last time you heard of a follower of Jerry Falwell strapping on a backpack full of dynamite and detonating himself inside a synagogue or mosque?
2: When was the last time you were threatened with death for making pro-atheistic posts in this right-wing, fundamentalist Christian nation?
1. We agree the Muslims are worse. Stop your nonsense that I'm their cheerleader.
2. This is a secular nation founded by Protestants. If it were run by the Catholic fanatics who burned scientists alive I would be threatened.
You should thank the Atheists for using science and technological wizardry to make the West powerful enough to thwart the Muslims. Before the renaissance the Muslims were a serious threat and now they aren't militarily.
-
This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.
I knew you'd say that. What if you were born into a religion like Islam which does promote this. What would you do then?
-
No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.
Okay, I will. I will ask you two questions.
1: When was the last time you heard of a follower of Jerry Falwell strapping on a backpack full of dynamite and detonating himself inside a synagogue or mosque?
2: When was the last time you were threatened with death for making pro-atheistic posts in this right-wing, fundamentalist Christian nation?
1. We agree the Muslims are worse. Stop your nonsense that that I'm their cheerleader.
2. This is a secular nation founded by Protestants. If it were run by the Catholic fanatics who burned scientists alive I would be threatened.
You should thank the Atheists for using science and technological wizardry to make the West powerful enough to thwart the Muslims. Before the renaissance the Muslims were a serious threat and now they aren't militarily.
At JTF, we do not hate science or western civilization. Precisely the opposite.
-
agnostic, in your post above, you forgot to mention what happened when your fellow agnostics/atheists seized power in Russia, China and numerous Third World countries. You forgot to mention how the Marxists murdered or starved to death tens of millions of men, women and children. You forgot to mention how the "enlightened" agnostics/atheists brutally enslaved all of their subjects.
You also forgot to mention that many of the leading Nazis in Hitler's Germany were agnostics/atheists. These highly enlightened National Socialists also sought to eliminate the "darkness" of the "primitive" Bible.
Just thought that I would add these historical footnotes which never seem to appear when people study religion in universities and colleges.
How do you know that I'm a socialist? I despise socialism and Communism. Why do you people jump to conclusions so quickly? The Nazis were criminals, the communists are criminals and the religious fanatics are criminals. No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.
I didn't say you're a socialist. But the Nazis and the Communists were agnostics and atheists. So if you feel that eliminating religion is a solution, think again.
Also, since you lump us together with the murderers who carried out the inquisitions and the crusades just because we are religious, I think it is only fair to lump you together with the most powerful agnostic/atheist movements in history, namely Communism and Nazism. If you don't like the comparison, then don't compare us to crusaders, inquisitors and Muslim fanatics.
-
Gee- I hardly ever talk about islam, except when I am very angry that a muslim is running for Pres of the USA. I am not going to change either, and I am not the most religious person at all. I saw what islam did on 9/11 in NY, where I was, like other people here. I have not, nor do I intend to 'kill any muslims' -I do have to ask though- I just DONT get it- When I came to this forum and didnt even write a topic for a long time, and I am careful when I do, Why did you do that? I am just curious. I think that if you were coming here for awhile, why didnt you just write peoples names down that you thought were 'fanatical' so that you could have questioned THEM? Just curious.
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
-
1. We agree the Muslims are worse. Stop your nonsense that that I'm their cheerleader.
Everybody knows you believe the complete opposite of that. Nice try.
2. This is a secular nation founded by Protestants. If it were run by the Catholic fanatics who burned scientists alive I would be threatened.
Nice try to divide our members like that. We ain't gonna fall for that. But just to humor you, tell me when the last time was that the government of Ireland put someone to death for converting to Baptism or Lutheranism. ::)
You should thank the Atheists for using science and technological wizardry to make the West powerful enough to thwart the Muslims. Before the renaissance the Muslims were a serious threat and now they aren't militarily.
Once again you are trying to argue that the nice, misunderstood Muzzies are no danger to us. BS. Go over to the Hamas forum and I am sure they will appreciate your defenses of Islam.
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi. A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
Scientists who Believed in God. (mentions Catholic Churh)
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity."
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
Great point Chaim. Many agnostics/atheists are always stuck on the Middle Ages because they can't bring up any modern-day instances where Jews or true christians have killed others in the name of religion. But we MOST CERTAINLY have examples where muslims kill others of different faiths...Buddists, Hindus, Jews, Christians...THERE'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHRISTIANITY/JUDAISM AND ISLAM IN A NUTSHELL "agnostic"... Islam still kills in the name of religion...Jews never did.
-
This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.
I knew you'd say that. What if you were born into a religion like Islam which does promote this. What would you do then?
Convert to Judaism (or be a Noahide). Just because someone was born into 1 religion or another does not mean that he or she must be in that religion. I am not trying my best to follow the Laws of Judaism, just because my parents are jewish (although it gives a head start, since you then investigate into the proofs, etc.) I follow the Torah because of the many proofs and no disproves out their. If Judaism would be false, why would anyone follow it, only putting ristrictions on onself, (I mean I love to do m/itzvot, but it is only because I know it connects with G-d, but if someone proves their is no G-d, G-d forbid then their would be no point in following the Laws).
So basically I and will follow what G-d says in the Torah since I am convinced without any doubt, after the Hundreds of proofs. And if someone comes along and disproves Judaism, then as Rav Mizrachi says - "Ill order a cheeseburger in burger king, on Yom kippur and ill pay the bill." ;D
-
This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.
I knew you'd say that. What if you were born into a religion like Islam which does promote this. What would you do then?
If it was a false religion like Islam I'd try as best I could to escape it.
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi.
RACIST. And untrue.
A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.
What researcher and what proof of this? Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement. His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either. He is not a scientist. But maybe you are referring to someone else.
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi.
RACIST. And untrue.
A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.
What researcher and what proof of this? Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement. His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either. He is not a scientist. But maybe you are referring to someone else.
Am I the only one to see the capital U in his response ask the Serbs what that signifies
-
Furthermore, your argument about 'acquired skills' is in complete opposition to one of the basic Darwinian principles. It is absurd to suggest that by "acquiring higher cognitive and verbal skills" in one's lifetime, they then ensure a "genetic superiority" for their future offspring. You said you are in science?
-
What researcher and what proof of this? Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement. His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either. He is not a scientist. But maybe you are referring to someone else.
Then how do you explain the IQ gap between Ashkenazim and Sephardim? Don't give me the nonsense of culturally biased tests otherwise the Blacks can use that excuse.
-
What researcher and what proof of this? Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement. His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either. He is not a scientist. But maybe you are referring to someone else.
Then how do you explain the IQ gap between Ashkenazim and Sefaradim? Don't give me the nonsense of culturally biased tests otherwise the Blacks can use that excuse.
It's a valid "excuse" for the blacks as well. In my opinion, IQ tests don't mean squat.
-
If you want to compare cultural output and productivity at societal levels, ok we can look at trends, but a so-called "objective" IQ test to quantitate a person's intelligence and then attribute the differences to some mysterious unknown 'genetic component?' Nonsense.
The brain is much too complicated an organ, and the CNS a much to complicated organ system, to draw wide ranging conclusions from an 'iq test'
-
Now is it in general a valid statement to say that Jews, and in particular Ashkenazi Jews have achieved nobel prizes in far greater than proportional numbers to the size of their population, and in America do they compose a high percentage of the successful student body in elite universities? Certainly. But consider the enabling surrounding cultural environment. If the Sefaradim were living in western cultural centers with thriving universities, rather than backwards Islamic caliphates, which they have been in until recently, they could also have achieved this level of greatness. In Spain prior to 1492, the Sefardic Jewry was heavily involved in scholarly pursuits and were great academics until that culture was destroyed. And Spain has never been the same!
Also the great merchants of the Dutch trading companies were also composed largely of Sefardic Jews (many were descendants of the expelled Jews from Spain actually). So it is not just Ashkenazim that have excelled in finance.
-
agnostic, in your post above, you forgot to mention what happened when your fellow agnostics/atheists seized power in Russia, China and numerous Third World countries. You forgot to mention how the Marxists murdered or starved to death tens of millions of men, women and children. You forgot to mention how the "enlightened" agnostics/atheists brutally enslaved all of their subjects.
You also forgot to mention that many of the leading Nazis in Hitler's Germany were agnostics/atheists. These highly enlightened National Socialists also sought to eliminate the "darkness" of the "primitive" Bible.
Just thought that I would add these historical footnotes which never seem to appear when people study religion in universities and colleges.
So now people can't say that atheism/agnosticism are an enlightening force after looking at the Soviets and the Nazis. Also, atheism/agnosticism is a religion itself which I find to be quite an ironic burn. In their attempts to render religion obsolete, they have created one themselves. I'm talking about the radical atheists cause I know there are some atheists on the forum and the atheists on the forum don't try to missionize, at least not to my knowledge.
-
Agnostic, if you think we're a bunch of religious fanatics who are no better than Muslims, then why even bother posting here?
-
Agnostic, if you had just stated that you were an agnostic but shared political views with JTF, then you probably would have received different responses. You compared this forum to Islam, which obviously is going to get a rise out of people. There are athiests/agnostics, Christians, Hindus and others on the forum and although they have different viewpoints on theology they understand the threat of Islam.
One key difference between the Jews and Muslims is simple. Jews do not try to convert anyone and actually discourage people from converting unless they truly feel the need to convert. You won't find Jews passing laws on non Jews to follow the Torah.
The Christians here condemn the anti-semtism of the past and are for Isarel out of love for the Jewish people and out of moral obligation. No modern day Christian, especially here would try to force somone to convert. There are Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals etc. here so obviously they wouldn't want a theocracy. The most radical Christianity would never kill anyone or chop someones feet off for being a Jew or a pagan.
Please read the Koran. I don't think you have read the Christian Bible and the Koran. The Koran and the Hadith say Jews and Christians are apes. The Koran says, "if you come across a black man, his heart will be as cold as a donkey." There are countless passages about cleansing the Saudi penninsula of Jews and Christians and that you can never be friends with them. You may see some radical statements here but please see "Undercover Mosque" on Youtube so you can see the whole picture. No one here will kill you or hurt you, despite how much we disagree with you. Copts in Egypt and Christians in Indonesia and Sudan are murdered in the hundreds of thousand simply for being! I just ask of you to look at the evidence and look at the world. Go to the Vatican and then go to Saudi Arabia and then Israel, then tell me who is trying to make the world worse and better. Which country could you actually be killed by the inhabitants there? Are rabbis roaming the streets hoping to find gentiles? Are priests roaming around looking to kill non believers? Then go to Saudi Arabia and tell them you're an agnostic American or Westerner.
-
I think people here really need to calm down, and not jump to conclusions whenever someone questions certain beliefs, however dear those beliefs may be. Frankly, I don't see any flaw in agnostic's argument at all, but I do reckon people are overreacting, terribly so. :-[
A proper response to Agnostic's post would go something like this:
Dear Agnostic, very good questions. To say that the bible/torah doesn't encourage violence would be a politically correct statement, though not a factually correct one. So let's suppose for a minute that they do encourage this sort of behavior. In what way is it then different from Islam, which also believes in the same thing?
The difference is, Christians/Jews have learned their lessons from history (dark ages etc.) that superstition doesn't pay, it doesn't help toward progress. So most of them have abandoned the old ways of life, which revolve around attacking other religions, and all the rest of that bigoted outlook. Hence, the C/Jews of today are modern and progressive, unlike their Semitic cousins who, to this day, haven't adapted to the changing world. :-[ This, I believe, is the major difference, the willingness to change and evolve, in tune with the circumstances.
But yes, there are fanatics in these religions too. This can NEVER be denied. It would be foolish to assume that fanaticism is an exclusive property of the Islamic religion. No, Sir, Christian fanaticism is alive and well, but luckily, these fanatics are few and far between, and are usually shunned by the majority of Christians. So it's my firm belief that fanaticism in these religions will die a natural death, sooner or later, because like I said earlier, people are willing to reform themselves and their religions. So it's nothing to worry about. But you're right about the fact that fanaticism is present in C/J as well, and it's not restricted to Islam. The difference, however, is in degree, and I hope you see why it's very important to consider that above the rest.
This concludes my response to Agnostic.
As to other people who argue that atheist communism has destroyed nations/cultures, well, two wrongs don't make a right. Besides, extreme and militant forms of atheism are simply a reaction to the fanatical grip that the Church had exercised over the government, masses, and their ways of life. ;) Again, the blame falls on religious people, it's their bigotry that pushed more and more people into militant atheism, communism, and such ideologies.
Does all this mean we have to ignore the threat of Islam? Obviously not. The two are not related in any way. Just because we acknowledge the atrocities committed by C/Js in the past, it doesn't mean we must turn a blind eye to the present crisis, to Islamic terrorism, in particular.
As one can see, it's possible to fight Islam, without losing one's liberal values, without becoming a religious bigot oneself. One doesn't have to believe in the foolish, conservative agenda to see the dangers of Islam or communism. As a liberal, it's quite easy to perceive the danger Islam/Communism might pose to liberal values. :)
-
I think people here really need to calm down, and not jump to conclusions whenever someone questions certain beliefs, however dear those beliefs may be. Frankly, I don't see any flaw in agnostic's argument at all, but I do reckon people are overreacting, terribly so. :-[
I did not perceive agnostic as "attacking my beliefs." Precisely the opposite. I perceived him as attacking a straw man and making ignorant statements, and so I reacted as such. You may not see any flaws in agnostic's logic, but certainly many of us do, and pointed them out.
Dear Agnostic, very good questions. To say that the bible/torah doesn't encourage violence would be a politically correct statement, though not a factually correct one. So let's suppose for a minute that they do encourage this sort of behavior. In what way is it then different from Islam, which also believes in the same thing?
The difference is, Christians/Jews have learned their lessons from history
If you think this is the difference between Jews and Muslims, you are basically saying that there is no difference in the religion, but the Jews decided to "learn from the past" and behave differently. BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE!
There is a huge difference between the religions. I won't speak about Christianity because I'm a Jew and I know a thing or two about Islam as well. That you equate the two, shows you are ignorant of both!
And you seem to imply here that because there are aspects of the Torah that are violent (I'm going to assume you imply this, you may not know a thing about Torah or you may not know what you are saying, but I'll give you a benefit of the doubt here), then that is by default 'bad.' This couldn't be more of a perverted logic or distorted morality. Violence is not inherently evil or wrong. It can and should be used in self-defense, and Kahanist, Torah -true principles mandates this!
But yes, there are fanatics in these religions too. This can NEVER be denied. It would be foolish to assume that fanaticism is an exclusive property of the Islamic religion.
agnostic was not talking about fanatics within the religions, perhaps 'acting out' against the doctrine. He was talking about the religions themselves and what they mandate. His argument was about the content of the religions, not the behaviors of its practictioners divorced from the precepts of the religion itself.
Unfortunately for you and for all non-Muslims, it does not require a "fanatic" to do evil under the guise of Islam. Because it is Islam itself that calls for evil actions - not just 'misbehaving fanatics.' All it requires is your everyday believing Muslim who follows the normative understanding of Islam. It is not fanaticism when a Muslim blows himself up and kills infidels to go to "virgins." It is ISLAM.
-
I've been coming to this forum for months and reading your discussions, and watching your shows online. I agree with you people completely on Islam, but have some questions. I find that some of you are so religiously fanatic you're not so different than the Muslims who want to exterminate and enslave humanity. When Christianity became dominant in Europe the dark ages occurred. They suppressed science and learning and tortured philosophers and scientists who opposed them. Considering the history of the Christian Wars; the torture and lunacy of parts of the Inquisition; the suppression of learning and science caused by the Christian Dark Ages; and the division of nations into opposing Christian camps in even supposedly secular countries such as North America; then no other conclusion is possible except to say that the introduction of Christianity has to count as the single greatest ideological catastrophe to ever strike Europe. It seems ironic that you people would hate Islam given the fact that you think porn stars should be killed, gays should be killed, atheists and agnostics like myself should be killed, people should forcefully close their business on the Sabbath, women should be stoned to death for adultery, and Israel and America should have the Jewish and Christian versions of sharia law respectively. If you people were born into Islam you would be like them so stop hating them.
you're incorrect..we have no desire to enslave or convert anyone to anything unlike what the Muslamics want to do...so you are way off on that...
I believe you need more time to study all religions before you begin to assume things...
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi. A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.
hahaha..
If it talks like a nazi, writes like a nazi, thinks like a nazi, and smells like a nazi, It's definately a Nazi...
This is a false study...and if a study ever came wtih this conclusion with documentation of "good science", I could find plenty of ways to prove it wrong.
ban this troll..it is so obvious that he's a racist disgusting pig!!!!
Shame on you!!!
-
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.
Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.
The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi. A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.
The dark-skinned Sephardi Jews who come from countries like Iran, Iraq, Syria, and some of the Muslim former Soviet republics are generally more successful and more prosperous than most Ashkenazi Jews. When given a chance to succeed, compete and get a modern education, Sephardi Jews are just as brilliant as their Ashkenazi brothers and sisters. The problem was that when they were trapped in Arab and Islamic countries, the Sephardi Jews were unable to excel because they were repressed by force along with all other non-Muslim "infidels".
Your ugly racist genetic theories are proven false by the amazing success stories of dark-skinned Jews from these Third World countries who in one generation become multimillionaires. You could see this with the Persian Jews of Great Neck, Sands Point, Kings Point and Beverly Hills, with the Syrian Jews of Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn, and with the Bukharian Jews of Forest Hills Gardens and Jamaica Estates.
-
The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi. A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations.
YOU MEAN ABOUT TAY SAKS DISEASE???? (SICKLE CELL DISEASE IS MORE FRECVENT TO AFRICAN AMERICANS 1:600) AND TAY SAKS TO ASHKENAZI JEWS (1:3600)! YOU ARE MISLEAD SO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WRITE HERE, PEOPLE HAPPEN TO KNOW STUFF, AND ARE RELIGIOUS TOO!
-
hahaha..
If it talks like a nazi, writes like a nazi, thinks like a nazi, and smells like a nazi, It's definately a Nazi...
This is a false study...and if a study ever came wtih this conclusion with documentation of "good science", I could find plenty of ways to prove it wrong.
ban this troll..it is so obvious that he's a racist disgusting pig!!!!
Shame on you!!!
I'm racist but not a Nazi. The real Nazis are you who want to exterminate gays, porn stars and atheists. There is no need to ban me I will leave. I'm afraid you will find my home and burn me at the stake.
-
You are a sick neo nazi pig
-
hahaha..
If it talks like a nazi, writes like a nazi, thinks like a nazi, and smells like a nazi, It's definately a Nazi...
This is a false study...and if a study ever came wtih this conclusion with documentation of "good science", I could find plenty of ways to prove it wrong.
ban this troll..it is so obvious that he's a racist disgusting pig!!!!
Shame on you!!!
I'm racist but not a Nazi. The real Nazis are you who want to exterminate gays, porn stars and atheists. There is no need to ban me I will leave. I'm afraid you will find my home and burn me at the stake.
:D run for the hills, Roni...run for the hills...we will get our pitch forks and find you.... :::D
-
I have always been interested in the tar and feather treatment. Supposed to be really good for hiding pimples...
-
This piece of fauna should have been banned after post one.
-
This piece of fauna should have been banned after post one.
Absolutely.
I think his intentions became clear when he brought up the alleged IQ differences between Sephardim and Ashkenazim. However, even if he was sincere (which is doubtful), he is clearly set in his ways and nothing we say or do will convince him otherwise. Let him continue to pretend he has all the answers; ultimately, he just doesn't matter.
Aside from disruption, I cannot imagine what can possibly be achieved by allowing such filth to regurgitate their nonsense here.
-
I have banned agnostic for sending sick gay porn to members in PMs.
-
hahaha..
If it talks like a nazi, writes like a nazi, thinks like a nazi, and smells like a nazi, It's definately a Nazi...
This is a false study...and if a study ever came wtih this conclusion with documentation of "good science", I could find plenty of ways to prove it wrong.
ban this troll..it is so obvious that he's a racist disgusting pig!!!!
Shame on you!!!
I'm racist but not a Nazi. The real Nazis are you who want to exterminate gays, porn stars and atheists. There is no need to ban me I will leave. I'm afraid you will find my home and burn me at the stake.
You're a Tina Greco Nazi wannabe. >:( You follow Racial Third Reich Eugenic Science, which has been debunked thousands of times. Blacks could be brilliant, but their culture is evil and has suppressed them for hundreds if not thousands of years in Africa. An evil primitive culture could be going back thousands of years. As a result, they were lazy and never wanted to build great civilizations.
-
I have banned agnostic for sending sick gay porn to members in PMs.
wow. Interesting that these nazis are always into gay porn
I sensed he was a troll from the start, but I guess it's good we annihilated all his worthless arguments anyway.
-
wow. Interesting that these nazis are always into gay porn
I sensed he was a troll from the start, but I guess it's good we annihilated all his worthless arguments anyway.
Kahane-Was-Right, you have an excellent point. You guys gave some really amazing responses and tore his arguments apart. They always resort to attacks when they don't have a leg to stand on.
Those who can't debate, defame.
-
I have banned agnostic for sending sick gay porn to members in PMs.
it was Roni...or one of those usual losers obsessed with JTF.
-
I was one of the ones that received the porn.
Agnostic doesn't realize that gay porn has no effect on me.
I like girls only.
-
I was one of the ones that received the porn.
Agnostic doesn't realize that gay porn has no effect on me.
I like girls only.
:::D!
-
He was an Ustash
-
He was an Ustash
Ustash? Croatian military Nazi??? I have to rely on Wikipedia for a lot of the terms used.
-
He was an Ustash
Ustash? Croatian military Nazi??? I have to rely on Wikipedia for a lot of the terms used.
He is a Croat nazi
-
I was one of the ones that received the porn.
Agnostic doesn't realize that gay porn has no effect on me.
I like girls only.
maybe it was newman...didn't you and newman go at odds before?
-
here- and I am NOT NOT NOT going to change:
As long as we live in AMERICA and its is not a muZlim nation.........yet............religions are open to be criticized. People SHOULD be able to do this, without a threat of going into exile. Personally, I dont like ANY religion. I believe 100% in Torah/Tanach and I LIKE the N.T. Torah, in my opinion is FREEDOM. Gd IS Gd. He is NOT in a box. I dont expect people to 'like' what I like- but DONT TRY TO CHANGE ME. I LIKE the way Gd has made me, and a few others in my life do too. If the rest dont like it------Get a quarter, and call someone who gives a dam.
*I realize this 'offends' people here. It is NOT meant to offend YOU. As long as I live, I WILL live FREE. Period. And the more people try to shove their beliefs on me, the MORE I will become indignant, to the point where anything you would say, will be a non-factor. David and I both, have had forceful people in our lives, we are BOTH on the same EXACT page, which is WHY we adore each-other. It is NOT easy to have very forceful people in ones life, it turns people AWAY, far away.This is why I detest forceful indoctrinating type people. TO THE MAX.
-
I was one of the ones that received the porn.
Agnostic doesn't realize that gay porn has no effect on me.
I like girls only.
maybe it was newman...didn't you and newman go at odds before?
Absolutely. He hates me for criticizing Smelly (Kelly) Moron.
-
I was one of the ones that received the porn.
Agnostic doesn't realize that gay porn has no effect on me.
I like girls only.
maybe it was newman...didn't you and newman go at odds before?
Absolutely. He hates me for criticizing Smelly (Kelly) Moron.
That sleazy used car salesman is funny:
1) He attempted suicide (a cowardly act, except when done by a Samurai of course).
2) He failed.
Could anyone conceive of a bigger loser than Andrew Newman?
-
Newman's a used car salesman?
-
Newman's a used car salesman?
Some time back he said he was in one of his posts. He also claimed to be an appliance sales man. Who really knows but he seemed to have the mentality of a used car salesman so it might have been true. I enjoyed posting with newman I didn't agree with his positions in the end but he was someone who could debate a topic to death.
-
Newman's a used car salesman?
He is an ex-used car salesman, supposedly.
-
i say hang that croatian fascist
-
i say hang that croatian fascist
Newman?
-
I thought newman drove a truck.
-
I thought newman drove a truck.
He said he did that also. I guess he worked at whatever brought in a buck or he may have just been telling stories.
-
Andrew Newman is a trailer-park Australian redneck Jew-hater. He would make the perfect Klansman in the United States. Damn near every single one of his 10,000-odd posts was flamingly racist or Christian-hating. Why this all got past our resident Aspie Administrator for so very long is not something I am capable of answering.
In any case, he's delusional if he thinks Kelly Scott/Maureen/Taylor will ever do him. Kelly only likes chicks.
-
I have banned agnostic for sending sick gay porn to members in PMs.
Agnostic is most likely Jesus Rivera, Jr., who is sent by the penguin (Guzofsky) from time to time to flame us. He has a proxy server and can generate multiple IPs.