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Save Western Civilization => Save Serbia => Topic started by: DALMACIJA on August 20, 2008, 11:06:38 AM
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Historical and Investigative Research - rev. 14 March 2006
by Francisco Gil-White
http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/ball.htm
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[19a] At the height of World War II, in 1943, Ruth Mitchell wrote a book entitled The Serbs Chose War to document and celebrate the valiant fight of the Serbs against German Nazism, and against Nazi allies within Yugoslavia. In her book she reproduces in full a letter
"...written by a Jewish physician, a professor in the Department of Medicine in the University of Belgrade, to a friend in London on his escape from Yugoslavia in 1942. As the writer is a Jew, for the sake of relatives who remain in Yugoslavia his name cannot be used."
This letter tells a remarkable tale of Serbian moral bravery. Here it is:
[Text Of The Letter Begins Here]
“In Yugoslavia there were 85,000 Jews, including Jewish émigrés from Germany, Austria, Poland and Czechoslovakia. Thanks to the Serbs, the Yugoslav Jews had succeeded in saving and rescuing many of their compatriots from Germany and German-occupied countries. Service rendered and assistance given to Jews by Yugoslav consular officials in Austria and Czechoslovakia has specially to be recognized. Of the total number of Jews in Yugoslavia about 7,500 were refugees.
“After the [Nazi invasion in 1941]...the Jews came under the rule of various regimes, including Pavelich's 'Independent Croatian State'.
“The 'solution' of the Jewish question in the Independent Croatia devolved upon the Croatian Ustashis. [This was the clerical-fascist regime set up in Croatia with Nazi approval.] In Serbia, however, the Jewish problem was not dealt with by the Serbs themselves. This the Germans reserved for themselves. There are special reasons for this. When they occupied Serbia, the Germans did not find any anti-Semitic feeling in the country. They could not persuade either the local population or the local authorities to take any anti-Semitic measures.
“The fact that Nedich [the Serbian quisling government, installed after the Nazi invasion] twice demanded from the German commanding officer in Serbia and the Banat that he and his government should be given the right to settle the Jewish problem, against whom no drastic measures should and could be taken in Serbia, shows the feeling of the Serbian people toward the Jews. The following reasons were given by Nedich to the Germans for this demand. If the Germans wanted the Serbs to calm down, it would be of first importance to stop the terrible persecution of the Serbian Jews. The Serbian people could not and would not accept such treatment 'of their compatriots of the Jewish religion.' The Serbs consider Jews as their brothers, only of a different religion. The answer which Nedich received from the Germans regarding this demand was 'that the Serbs have not attained a culture to the degree necessary to enable them to deal with the Jews. We ourselves shall settle the Jewish question in Serbia.'
“With regard to anti-Semitism, Yugoslavia can be divided into two parts, i.e., districts where this feeling was latent, and Serbia, where, it can be said without any exaggeration, anti-Semitic feeling has never had any root.
“During Yugoslavia's twenty-three years of existence, Serbia has always professed the free democratic tradition existing in the former Kingdom of Serbia. There in the nineteenth century, and later in the twentieth, the Jews always had full civic rights and complete equality with their Serbian compatriots. This equality was not only granted in various constitutions of the Kingdom of Serbia and later of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, but it was also a true expression of the relationship between the Orthodox Serbs and the Jews in their everyday contact. This friendly and amicable relationship also existed in the economic, financial, and political life in Serbia. The small group of Jews living in Serbia gave their contribution towards the cultural and political life in Serbia's struggle for the formation of a state of South Slavs. The Jews had in Serbia members of Parliament. In Serbia's struggle for liberation, the Jews gave their contribution. Several were awarded the Karadgeorge Star for bravery in the battlefield - equivalent to the British V.C.
“About a year before Yugoslavia was attacked by Germany, by pressure from the Reich and in their attempt to suit their policy to the dictators, the Tsvetkovich-Machek Government passed the first anti-Semitic measure in Yugoslavia. The Government was not unanimous on this point. Dr. Koroshets, leader of the Slovenes, upheld the measure as Minister of Education. Serbian cabinet ministers, however, including the Minister of War, refused to apply the act. The application of it was confined to the Ministry of Education, under the Slovene, Dr. Koroshets, and the Ministry of Trade and Industry, under the Croat[ian], Dr. Andres.
“In all the schools and universities, numerous restrictions were applied by circular, but in Serbia, Serb teachers and professors succeeded in avoiding or sabotaging the regulations.
“In this regard Serbia completely differed from Croatia under Dr. Machek and the district governor or Ban, Shubashich. In Croatia anti-Semitism was inherited from Austria-Hungary. Anti-Semitic centers had always existed. Dr. Shubashitch's Croatia had even prepared elaborate laws and regulations just before the war broke out in Yugoslavia in 1941. A large part of the industries in Jewish hands in Croatia was to be confiscated and nationalized. Anti-Semitism was particularly stressed in Croatia by the right wing of Dr. Machek's Croatian Peasant Party.
“This report could be divided into two parts - the first beginning with the entry of German troops into Belgrade in April 1941 to the beginning of August 1941; the second from the middle of August 1941 until the closing down of the office of the 'Jewish section' late in 1942. The section was closed because there were no longer any Jews in occupied Serbia. During the first stage the Jews were tortured, persecuted, maltreated, taken for forced labor. Well-known Jews and Serbs were taken to German concentration camps. Women of the intelligentsia class were forced to clean latrines in the German barracks, to clean floors and sweep streets under the supervision of the S.S. troops. They were made to clean the windows of high houses from the outside, and several of them lost their lives through falling down. Jewish girls were violated and taken to 'Militar-Medi'. Already during the first stage the Jews were deprived of all their property and most of them were evicted from their homes.
“In the second period male Jews were sent to concentration camps. But quite a number of men and young Jews succeeded in escaping to the villages, where they lived with Serbian peasant families. A number later joined the guerrillas. A considerable number of youths from the Jewish Zionist organization, which co-operated with the Serbian organizations for the preparation of resistance, actively helped the guerrilla fighters. Many collected hospital material for the guerrillas or posted anti-German posters in Belgrade streets. The name of Almozmo, a schoolboy of ten, the son of a well-known Belgrade dispensing chemist in Peter Street, should be mentioned. He threw bombs at two armored German cars and a tank in Grobljanska Street in Belgrade and blew them up. His elder brother, a medical student, is still fighting in Bosnia, in spite of the order that the mayor and members of the rural councils would be shot if such cases were discovered in their villages.
“Some forty of my relatives were shot in Belgrade by the Germans. I am, however, very proud to say that today two small relatives of mine, one of five and one of seven years of age, whose parents were shot by the Gestapo, are being hidden by two Serbian mothers.
“No German measures in Belgrade were able to upset the friendly relations between the Serbs and Jews. During the forced-labor period Serbs talked to their Jewish friends in the streets even in front of the German soldiers and police. During the period well over 300,000 Serbs were massacred by the Croat Ustashi in Bosnia, Herzegovina, and Lika and some 60,000 shot by the Germans in Serbia, during the period when Serbian students and peasants were hung in the main square in Belgrade, the Serbs of the capital had sufficient courage to protest publicly their indignation at the treatment of the Jews.
“When Jewish women were transported in lorries to the concentration camps, Serb shopkeepers in the streets through which these processions passed closed their shops and their houses, thus expressing not only their protest, but also emphasizing the fact that the entire population of Serbia, yesterday and today, does not and cannot participate in the extermination of their Jewish neighbors.
“The example of the Serbian people with regard to the Jews is unique in Europe, particularly in the southern part of the continent. In spite of intensive German propaganda in writing and through the wireless, the Serbs remained unaffected. When we consider what happened to the Jews in neighboring countries, in the "Independent State of Croatia," Hungary, Rumania, and Bulgaria, the Serbian example shines out.
“Today there are no more Jews left in Serbia, except some children hidden by the Serbs and those fighting along with the Serbs in the forests. I saved my own life thanks to my Serbian friends. I was saved from certain death. Serbian peasants and my other friends also saved from death my only son, who was on several occasions sought by the Gestapo in Belgrade.
“It is my desire as a Jew and as a Serb that in free democratic countries where Jews are still enjoying full freedom and equality they should show gratitude to the Serbian people, pointing out their noble acts, their humane feelings, and their high civic consciousness and culture....
“I cannot conclude this report without mentioning how the Serbian Orthodox Church, the Patriarch Gavrilo, and his clergy tried to save Serbian Jews and Gypsies. Up to the present day the Germans have massacred I70,000 Gypsies, men, women, and children, in Serbia and the Banat. Serbian Orthodox priests and the Serbian peasantry risked their lives not only to save ordinary Jews and their children but also to save those Gypsies and their children. Today the chief rabbi of Yugoslav Jews lives in America. He was saved from the Gestapo, being smuggled out from Serbia from monastery to monastery by the Serbian clergy. He was handed over by one Serbian church to another, by one Serbian priest to another until he was passed on to Bulgarian territory. There, with the assistance of the Orthodox Bulgarian clergy, some of whom were his personal friends, he arrived at the Turkish frontier.”
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I come from Banat which is a teritorry in 3 countries : Romania, Serbia and Hungary! The most beautiful part of my city have Jewish and Serbian buildings, and I guess this is also a sign that Serbs and Jews were always friends! They lived together without fights and wars! :)
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The Serbs risked their lives and fought the Nazis rather than offer up their Jewish friends to be murdered. The Croatians jumped at the chance to murder as many Jews as they could to help the Nazis and with formation of their own nazi regime. Any Jew who forgets or ignores this important lesson is a traitor to our people. That includes anyone who supported Clinton's war crimes or the Islamic crimes occuring in Kosovo, "Bosnia" and elsewhere...
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USAF Attache in Belgrade, Lt. Col. John Cappello, honors the Halyard Mission and Mihailovich!
report by Dnevne Novine Press(Serbia) by Ravnagora - august 28,2008 - Haylard English Translation from Serbian
RAVNA GORA MEN RESCUED 660 AIRMEN
The American Air Attaché to the U.S. Embassy in Belgrade, Lt Col John Cappello, USAF, speaks about the Halyard Mission that was led by General Draza Mihailovich in WWII and presents the little known story about the achievements of the Pranjani villagers in Serbia.
At the beginning of May 2008 at the American Corner in Kragujevac a very specific exhibition of photographs was opened. Its title was the “Air Bridge”. The citizens of Serbia had an opportunity for the first time to be introduced to events of the WWII that cast a new light on the relationship between Serbia and the U.S. The photographs are an authentic testimony to the greatest rescue mission of Americans from behind enemy lines in the history of warfare, the selfless sacrifice of the Serbs, and the military skill of General Draza Mihailovic. The Halyard (meaning the “lifter”) Mission entered the textbooks of the history of the air force, along with the heroic achievement of the citizens of the small Serbian village of Pranjani at the foothold of Ravna Gora.
The initiative for the organization of the exhibition was given by the American Ambassador, Cameron Munter, and his idea was implemented by the Air Force Attaché to the U.S. Embassy to Belgrade Lt. Col. John Cappello and the Euro Atlantic Initiative NGO.
A Human Story
Lt Col John Cappello said that he is professionally fascinated with the Halyard action and the human story about the people who selflessly sacrificed themselves for the American people.
“When I arrived in Belgrade one year ago I was already familiar with the Halyard Mission. My research was professional. I am a pilot and I like to study historic events, especially those pertaining to the air force. When I arrived in Belgrade I started to look for testimonies about events from WWII. It is known that many aircraft flew above Serbia and that a large number of them fell over Central Serbia. The largest number of American airmen that were shot down by the Nazis was rescued, thanks to Draza Mihailovic and his soldiers,” Lt Col Cappello started the story.
One of the first things Attaché Cappello did was to organize a visit to the village of Pranjani in Serbia. The meeting with participants in the mission and the surviving witnesses fascinated him.
“When I was among the people who directly participated in these rescues during WWII," he said, "and when I heard them talk about them, I became aware that these were not only mere historical facts. I realized that this was a touching story about sacrifice and a tight friendship between the two nations. However, soon I understood that this important story, is little known to the people of Serbia.”
The fact that the events led by Gen Draza Mihailovic are not mentioned in the official history of WWII in Serbia motivated him to organize the exhibition. The starting point for the research was the book about the participants to the Halyard Mission written by Miodrag Pesic titled “Air Bridge Operation”. However, following the opening of the exhibition, people started to call and bring new photographs in.
“We had selected 20 out of the total of 50 photographs that we had at our disposal," said Cappello. "I was surprised when following the opening of the exhibition people started to call and offer new photographs. In Pranjani there is almost no house in which someone did not participate in the rescue of the airmen.
Lt. Col. Cappello stated that history has recorded that in the course of a single day more than 350 airmen were rescued from Pranjani and during the whole action over the course of several months, a total of 660 allied airmen, [among them over 500 Americans] were rescued. So far, that is the largest rescue action of American airmen from hostile territory recorded in modern history.
“If we see WWII as the greatest armed conflict in modern history and the Halyard action as the greatest rescue mission of American airmen, then we can say that Draza Mihailovic has rescued the largest number of U.S. airmen in history. It is known that the largest number of airmen were shot down over occupied Serbia, and it is very interesting to see how Draza Mihailovich managed to protect them from the Nazi armed forces and return them to the allied bases in northern Italy,” Attache Cappello explained.
Objectively with no emotions
The Air Attaché believes that it is strange that such an important event is not mentioned in our history.
“When I realized that your history does not mention these events, I wanted to objectively study them with no emotion and to publish the truth about them. Behind the military rescue operation, there is a much deeper story about friendship and understanding, not only between the direct participants in the events, but between our two nations. We must not forget that Serbs and Americans were allies in both world wars. That friendship exists even now; it is only that it is not discussed much."
The President of the Euro Atlantic Initiative NGO, Daniel Sunter, said that his NGO helped the realization of the U.S. Embassy project.
“The exhibition is one of the many actions that were launched with the objective of presenting a truly incredible air force mission. The “Halyard Mission” is not only interesting from the point of air force history; it is also an important event in the history of relations between the two countries. The Mission had been hidden from the public due to political circumstances. The situation was such that it was not allowed to glorify the successes of Draza Mihailovich. However, this is not about the political or any other connotation of this event, but about its meaning and greatness,” Sunter explained.
Ordinary villagers, the locals of Pranjani, selflessly helped the airmen. They were hiding them in their houses, feeding them, and providing them with medical treatment. This created numerous tight friendships that have lasted to the present. The photographs that were taken in that period are important testimony not only about little known events of WWII but also to the way of living in that period of time. The Halyard Mission is proudly mentioned among the Serbian Diaspora in America, and among the rescued officers and their descendants. The attache believes that the mission is proof of the friendship between the two nations, and perhaps the starting point for successful future cooperation.
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Well I really can't agree for the most part it is untrue! The real people working for the protection of Jews and combined Jews in their forces was the Partisans including of course the famous Moshe Pyade Tito's right hand man. Croatia's disgusting policy on following Hitler and the Utashe movement, and Serbian Cetniks same Bartering of Nazi favors and interests at certain times made Belgrade the first European city to be classified as Judenfrei.....In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable. Please note Jakov Sedlar a jewish man from Split who devoted time amongst his career of high level film production to outline the fallacy of Serbian protection and support of the jews...I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect.
Meytav Haichulim!
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Well I really can't agree for the most part it is untrue! The real people working for the protection of Jews and combined Jews in their forces was the Partisans including of course the famous Moshe Pyade Tito's right hand man. Croatia's disgusting policy on following Hitler and the Utashe movement, and Serbian Cetniks same Bartering of Nazi favors and interests at certain times made Belgrade the first European city to be classified as Judenfrei.....In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable. Please note Jakov Sedlar a jewish man from Split who devoted time amongst his career of high level film production to outline the fallacy of Serbian protection and support of the jews...I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect.
Meytav Haichulim!
Jewish Croat?You got to be kidding me right?!If you were Jew you would know what they have done to your people and how spilled blood together in Jasenovac and Kosovo.Judenfrei?O my g..!It's not the Serbs who have ordered killings and it's not the Serbs who have done killings it's the Germans!Don't you know basic history things?
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How many Jews live in Croatia today?
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You can't trust movies more then history, I hope you have enought intelligence to realize that!
Enligten us about Jasenovac camp please!
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yep,Dado is totally wrong!
as i know serbs never did bad things to jews!
and i didn't hear from any serb,from serbia,montenegro or republika srpska or anywhere else said something bad for the jews.
chetniks were fighting in ww2 against nazis,and communism,for our king and land!
croats ustashas were fighting with other nazis against serbs,jews,russians(not fighting,the ustashas were cowards,they killed innocent unarmed people).
my good friend grandma escaped ustashas nazi camp Jasenovac,she was a child,all her family were killed there,mother,father,sister,brothers :o.
she said brother help her to escape,but he was killed than.
here where i live,old people said that if here haven't been chetniks in ww2,croats ustashas will rule this lands,of course killing everthing that is ortodox.
what i got to say more??!!! >:(
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Dado is wrong, that's for sure but I can't believe he said that? Don't you think our freinds are aware of their history? I guess you just come here, toss something stuped and just go out. There is only one thing you should do to become worth our patience and understanding. That is to read, to educate yourself and ofc to ask!
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Well I really can't agree for the most part it is untrue! The real people working for the protection of Jews and combined Jews in their forces was the Partisans including of course the famous Moshe Pyade Tito's right hand man. Croatia's disgusting policy on following Hitler and the Utashe movement, and Serbian Cetniks same Bartering of Nazi favors and interests at certain times made Belgrade the first European city to be classified as Judenfrei.....In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable. Please note Jakov Sedlar a jewish man from Split who devoted time amongst his career of high level film production to outline the fallacy of Serbian protection and support of the jews...I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect.
Meytav Haichulim!
"I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect."
AND AGAIN "please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect"
YES WE DO! AND YET, YOU HAVEN'T RESPONDED TO ANY OF US!
Are you here calling Serbs LIERS, PROPAGANDISTS?
Are you here to spit upon Serbian victims?
How aren't you ashamed?
How aren't you ashamed to speak like that if you have NO CLUE?
Are you conscious through what kind of horrors Serbs had to go through?
And, you know what? THOSE PEOPLE WERE CIVILIANS, FOR YOUR INFORMATION!
Have you read any non-biased literature, did some research, thought by yourself what's right and what is wrong, made conclusions, studied history deeply so you give yourself the right to post such comment here?
What are your arguments and proofs, except some CROATIAN movie-making industry?
Croatian movie is your argument?
What kind of a person are you?
If you can't back your statements, why are you posting them at all?
And the last, but the most important question:
How can, a Serbian NATIONALIST be pro-German?
What kind of a paradox is that?
And respond once for all!
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Why is everyone attacking dado? He simply stated fact that serbs during ww2 made a postage stamp commemerating beograd as the first city in Europe to be "Judeinfrei". And also there are many pictures of cetniks posing with german soldiers. You cant just brush these off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chetniks_with_German_soldiers.jpg
http://www14.brinkster.com/philayu/SR/serbia3.htm (check out number 5)
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Why is everyone attacking dado? He simply stated fact that serbs during ww2 made a postage stamp commemerating beograd as the first city in Europe to be "Judeinfrei". And also there are many pictures of cetniks posing with german soldiers. You cant just brush these off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chetniks_with_German_soldiers.jpg
http://www14.brinkster.com/philayu/SR/serbia3.htm (check out number 5)
Mario what is your reason for joining this forum?
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Yes Mario, what is your reason for joining this forum.
Personally, I will take the word of blogger Julia Gorin who is Jewish and an expert on Serbian history over some Wikipedia articles.
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Everybody knows, that the Nazis ruled Serbia. Of cause they printed propaganda like this.
But it is clear, that the wast majority of Serbs resisted and don't joined the enemy.
Mario, your proofs proof only, that there were anti-semite stamps printed by the Nazi controlled gouvernment. Nothing more.
:P
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Why is everyone attacking dado? He simply stated fact that serbs during ww2 made a postage stamp commemerating beograd as the first city in Europe to be "Judeinfrei". And also there are many pictures of cetniks posing with german soldiers. You cant just brush these off.
Serbia was occupied territory and they were Nazis who set the agenda.
If your country were occupied by German Nazis and they killed 100 people for one dead Nazi soldier, I'd like to see what postage stamps and pictures you would have produced!
The overwhelming majority of Serbian population did not accept Nazi antisemitic values. They helped the Jews as they could.
Do not distort history!
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Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.
Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?
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Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.
Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?
What is your national background?
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Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.
Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?
Sorry people, I can't find the link, but, please, who has it, please show this idiot the newspaper article which has "Germany has job for all" and "You'll disappear if Bolshevism wins" and than introduce him a little bit with Mein Kamf, to explain him what EXACTLY, IN REALITY that article was supposed to mean/
It was written by GERMANS, on Serbian language, by SERBIAN CYRILLIC alphabet.
He obviously doesn't know much about modern war tactics.
New ages call for new methods, my dear, Mario.
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Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.
Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?
Sorry people, I can't find the link, but, please, who has it, please show this idiot the newspaper article which has "Germany has job for all" and "You'll disappear if Bolshevism wins" and than introduce him a little bit with Mein Kamf, to explain him what EXACTLY, IN REALITY that article was supposed to mean/
It was written by GERMANS, on Serbian language, by SERBIAN CYRILLIC alphabet.
He obviously doesn't know much about modern war tactics.
New ages call for new methods, my dear, Mario.
What the hell does have to do with Serbian sodiers posing with Nazi soldiers????? What were they forced at gun point cmon, grow up
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Where was this picture taken and under which circumstances?
To which units the "Serb" soldiers and the German soldiers belong?
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Why dont you go back and look at it and read the article with it. I thought it was evident who was who.
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Why dont you go back and look at it and read the article with it. I thought it was evident who was who.
Mario, you have not linked any article. You linked only pictures.
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Sorry here it is:
http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2008/05/11/the-patriotic-tradition-of-the-serbian-radical-party/
Im not calling all serbs nazis, im simply backing up Dados claim that some serbs were loyal to Nazis.
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Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.
Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?
Sorry people, I can't find the link, but, please, who has it, please show this idiot the newspaper article which has "Germany has job for all" and "You'll disappear if Bolshevism wins" and than introduce him a little bit with Mein Kamf, to explain him what EXACTLY, IN REALITY that article was supposed to mean/
It was written by GERMANS, on Serbian language, by SERBIAN CYRILLIC alphabet.
He obviously doesn't know much about modern war tactics.
New ages call for new methods, my dear, Mario.
What the hell does have to do with Serbian sodiers posing with Nazi soldiers????? What were they forced at gun point cmon, grow up
For EXAMPLE, it explains WHY someone would post something like that.
Ohoho, "grow up", eh?
And you LEARN HISTORY, to see why Serbs NEVER can be friends to Germans.
As for Nazism, you should BETTER SHUT UP!
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Mario, most of the Serbs during WWII were anti-Nazis. But you have to realize that once the Germans occupied a country, the government had very little choice. They had two choices: either co-operate or suffer the consequences. With that being said, the Serbs did their best to resist the Nazi invasion. Belgrade had already been bombed by Hitler and it would have been unreasonable to continue sacrificing the lives of innocent civilians. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuqSUIvwd4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuqSUIvwd4I)
About the photo. How much do we know about it? Where was it taken? Under which circumstances? Remember that a photograph can be portrayed in ways to adhere to all kinds of particular beliefs. It may very well be that the chetniks co-operated with the Nazis. It may not be true. On what basis? It could have been an attempt to deceive the Germans. History provides different accounts.
The article is very suspicious, objective and clearly biased. Perhaps even comical. The author keeps referring to the Serbian radical party as the "neo-Nazi Serbian Radical Party" which is quite insulting not just to Jews but to the entire world. He calls Kosovo "Kosov-a", even though Kosovo is a Serbian word. For most of the article, he talks about Momcilo Djucic, whom I've never heard of before. He talks about his crimes and almost compares them to the same level as Hitler. He compares the relationship of Vojislav Kostunica and Vladimir Putin to that of Mussolini and Hitler.
I think the author in his own words best describes his legitimacy in his own words: "I have been variously accused of being a...Croat nationalist and a supporter of..Islamism imperialism. Depending on how you define these terms, some or all of this may be accurate." In other words, a mule has more credibility than him.
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Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.
Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?
Sorry people, I can't find the link, but, please, who has it, please show this idiot the newspaper article which has "Germany has job for all" and "You'll disappear if Bolshevism wins" and than introduce him a little bit with Mein Kamf, to explain him what EXACTLY, IN REALITY that article was supposed to mean/
It was written by GERMANS, on Serbian language, by SERBIAN CYRILLIC alphabet.
He obviously doesn't know much about modern war tactics.
New ages call for new methods, my dear, Mario.
What the hell does have to do with Serbian sodiers posing with Nazi soldiers????? What were they forced at gun point cmon, grow up
For EXAMPLE, it explains WHY someone would post something like that.
Ohoho, "grow up", eh?
And you LEARN HISTORY, to see why Serbs NEVER can be friends to Germans.
As for Nazism, you should BETTER SHUT UP!
Shut up, wow thats mature. Thanks for joining the enlightend debate.
No not all serbs, but some were. Hey dont feel bad Italy and Spain also made the unfortunate alliance with Hitlers Germany.
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Mario, most of the Serbs during WWII were anti-Nazis. But you have to realize that once the Germans occupied a country, the government had very little choice. They had two choices: either co-operate or suffer the consequences. With that being said, the Serbs did their best to resist the Nazi invasion. Belgrade had already been bombed by Hitler and it would have been unreasonable to continue sacrificing the lives of innocent civilians. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuqSUIvwd4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuqSUIvwd4I)
About the photo. How much do we know about it? Where was it taken? Under which circumstances? Remember that a photograph can be portrayed in ways to adhere to all kinds of particular beliefs. It may very well be that the chetniks co-operated with the Nazis. It may not be true. On what basis? It could have been an attempt to deceive the Germans. History provides different accounts.
The article is very suspicious, objective and clearly biased. Perhaps even comical. The author keeps referring to the Serbian radical party as the "neo-Nazi Serbian Radical Party" which is quite insulting not just to Jews but to the entire world. He calls Kosovo "Kosov-a", even though Kosovo is a Serbian word. For most of the article, he talks about Momcilo Djucic, whom I've never heard of before. He talks about his crimes and almost compares them to the same level as Hitler. He compares the relationship of Vojislav Kostunica and Vladimir Putin to that of Mussolini and Hitler.
I think the author in his own words best describes his legitimacy in his own words: "I have been variously accused of being a...Croat nationalist and a supporter of..Islamism imperialism. Depending on how you define these terms, some or all of this may be accurate." In other words, a mule has more credibility than him.
Hey man thats your opinion, take it with a grain of salt. I didnt take the damn picture. All im saying is I dont like how Dado was attacked when he was kinda right.
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Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.
Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?
Sorry people, I can't find the link, but, please, who has it, please show this idiot the newspaper article which has "Germany has job for all" and "You'll disappear if Bolshevism wins" and than introduce him a little bit with Mein Kamf, to explain him what EXACTLY, IN REALITY that article was supposed to mean/
It was written by GERMANS, on Serbian language, by SERBIAN CYRILLIC alphabet.
He obviously doesn't know much about modern war tactics.
New ages call for new methods, my dear, Mario.
What the hell does have to do with Serbian sodiers posing with Nazi soldiers????? What were they forced at gun point cmon, grow up
For EXAMPLE, it explains WHY someone would post something like that.
Ohoho, "grow up", eh?
And you LEARN HISTORY, to see why Serbs NEVER can be friends to Germans.
As for Nazism, you should BETTER SHUT UP!
Shut up, wow thats mature. Thanks for joining the enlightend debate.
No not all serbs, but some were. Hey dont feel bad Italy and Spain also made the unfortunate alliance with Hitlers Germany.
GERMANY is one of the most Anti-Serb nations ever!
They had almost exterminated the Serbs in WWI and were supporting the same in WWII.
GO LEARN SOME ISTORY!
When, for the first time after WWII, a German soldier was on the ground, shooting, shot and killed, he killed a Serb!
Germans had always seen Slavs as something "below".
Not to mention the History of Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Even in Mein Kampf, Serbs and other Slavs had been described as "good for work", meaning cheap labor, meaning, inferior and there to be a slave of the "superior".
Serbia was military occupied by Germany. They ran all the institutions (including cinemas, newspapers and post-offices). They (the GERMANS) were the ones doing the dirty job there.
For one dead Nazi, they had killed 100 people.
They were taking children out of their classes and were shooting them.
Serbia was thorn into pieces. The territory of present-day Serbia was divided between 5 countries.
The territory my family comes from was occupied by Bulgaria. They were just ordinary peasants above whose fields were low-flying bombers.
Those traitors were nothing other but foreign puppets. There was one small group that was not much pro-German, but just needed gain. They did nothing, just let Germans kill their own people.
Find ONE concentration camp ran by Serbs.
Some 1,000,000 Serbs died in WWII and you STILL DARE TO CALL THEM N A Z I S ???
Be happy that Internet exists and that you aren't telling this in our faces!
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You're comparing Mussollini's Fascist Italy with Serbia? Are you plain ignorant or are you just trying to stir the pot?
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You want enlightened conversation?
I'm giving you an endless conversation!
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hardly.
Im not trying to stir the pot. Like I said before I was just backing Dado's original claim. Why cant you guys handle that? You keep attacking me like you have something to hide.
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All we have to hide is members like you!
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Mario has been banned.
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Mario has been banned.
WHY??? >:(
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Chaim Ben Pesach:
"This animal keeps referring to Serb heroes as "war criminals". Serb soldiers who fight valiantly against the Islamic Nazi invaders of Europe are "war criminals"?!
Mario wrote some Italian curse words on one of his posts. So he may be a Croat or an Albanian living in Italy".
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,33423.0.html
....That's why...
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Chaim Ben Pesach:
"This animal keeps referring to Serb heroes as "war criminals". Serb soldiers who fight valiantly against the Islamic Nazi invaders of Europe are "war criminals"?!
Mario wrote some Italian curse words on one of his posts. So he may be a Croat or an Albanian living in Italy".
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,33423.0.html
....That's why...
I saw that.
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Well I really can't agree for the most part it is untrue! The real people working for the protection of Jews and combined Jews in their forces was the Partisans including of course the famous Moshe Pyade Tito's right hand man. Croatia's disgusting policy on following Hitler and the Utashe movement, and Serbian Cetniks same Bartering of Nazi favors and interests at certain times made Belgrade the first European city to be classified as Judenfrei.....In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable. Please note Jakov Sedlar a jewish man from Split who devoted time amongst his career of high level film production to outline the fallacy of Serbian protection and support of the jews...I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect.
Meytav Haichulim!
I can't believe 60years old communist propaganda can be found through the fingers of a JTF-er.
Especially this:
In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable.
:o
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Well I really can't agree for the most part it is untrue! The real people working for the protection of Jews and combined Jews in their forces was the Partisans including of course the famous Moshe Pyade Tito's right hand man. Croatia's disgusting policy on following Hitler and the Utashe movement, and Serbian Cetniks same Bartering of Nazi favors and interests at certain times made Belgrade the first European city to be classified as Judenfrei.....In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable. Please note Jakov Sedlar a jewish man from Split who devoted time amongst his career of high level film production to outline the fallacy of Serbian protection and support of the jews...I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect.
Meytav Haichulim!
I can't believe 60years old communist propaganda can be found through the fingers of a JTF-er.
Especially this:
In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable.
:o
Dado was banned! :)
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This is...
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This is...
What?
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That is the problem.I dont know what follows 'is'.
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Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sephardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........
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Andrija Hebrang is SHAME for every Jew.
"On 16 may 2009 Austrian police intervened today at Bleiburg over a group of young men dressed in black uniforms, Zagreb’s Jutarnji list daily reported. According to sources, the young men disturbed order and peace by loud singing and shouting, disrupting the commemoration of the victims of Bleiburg which was taking place at the time.
Croatia’s Interior Minister Tomislav Karamarko said that, unfortunately, signs of Nazi times in Croatia were appearing in Bleiburg. Nazi symbols are also forbidden by law in Austria.
Around nine thousand people gathered at Bleiburg to commemorate the victims of Bleiburg. One of those present was the Croatian Democratic Union’s (HDZ) ANDRIJA HEBRANG(http://www.javno.com/en/foto.php?id=18&rbr=14011&idrf=587961), who ascertained that Croatia was lying on the bones of innocent civilians, on a crime which cannot be forgiven".
36 members of Hebrang’s family were killed in Jasenovac, his brother who was 9 or 10, his grandfather and grandmother, but because they were Jewsand now Hebrang support Ustashe in Blaiburg.
Picture from Blaiburg this zear(http://www.javno.com/en/foto.php?id=18&rbr=14011&idrf=587953)
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http://www.javno.com/en/foto.php?id=18&rbr=14011&idrf=587953
http://www.javno.com/en/foto.php?id=18&rbr=14011&idrf=587964
Pictures Blaiburg Ustashe and Hebrang
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"Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers..."
Sorry to burst your bubble but since you were not here for such a long time how can you write such uninformed nonsense?
Mario was banned not for the reasons you allege; he was not banned because we don't like debate, He was banned because he came on the forum masquerading as an Italian whilst arrogantly making "blood libel" type of accusations against the Serbs on every single one of his posts.
He was consistently stirring up trouble here on the forum, deliberately trying to create division between our Serbian and Jewish members. He was lying about the Serbs every chance he got, behaving like a typical troll: in other words he was making a complete moron out of himself.
He deserved to be banned by our administrators who made the correct decision.
PS: Andrija Hebrang was a typical Nazi Ustasha supporter. So what if he was born a Jew? Self-hating Jews like him are a disgrace.
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Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sefardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........
Tito's Communist Partisans did not even begin fighting the German Nazis until well after Operation Barbarossa [the attack on the Soviet Union by Hitler's Third Reich]. It is now documented that Tito's Communist Partisans were also on many occasions refusing to fight against the Germans because they preferred fighting Mihajlovic's Serbian Royalist Chetniks in a brutal civil war which raged alongside the German occupation.
I suggest you read the book "The Web of Disinformation: Churchill's Yugoslav Blunder" by David Martin.
http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Jan1995.htm
Many Albanians spread their "we saved the Jews from the Nazis during the Holocaust!" baloney to numerous unsuspecting and historically ignorant liberal/leftist Jews on internet discussion forums. Baruch Hashem, JTF is NOT one of these historically ignorant leftist forums!
Albanian prime minister Mustafa Kruja, in a June, 1942 speech made in Kosovo, [at that time part of a fascist Greater Albania] then called the “New Albania”, stated:
(Start Quote)
“The Serbian population of Kosovo should be removed as soon as possible.All indigenous Serbs should be qualified as colonists and as such, via the Albanian and Italian government, be sent to concentration camps in Albania. Serbian settlers should be killed.”
(End Quote)
In the US “Philadelphia Bulletin” newspaper article entitled
“On the Wrong Side in Kosovo” by Joseph Puder of the Interfaith Taskforce for America and Israel, Puder wrote:
“The [Albanian] “Skanderbeg” SS division.partook in the rounding up of Jews who were sent to their death in Bergen Belsen and other Nazi death camps. Bedri Pejjani, a Kosovo Muslim was appointed by the Nazis to rule occupied Kosovo and set out to establish a greater Islamic state in the region with the blessing and support of Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler’s protégé and friend.”
The Albanian government and Albanian authorities took an active part in the extermination of Albanian Jews: In June, 1943, the Albanian police chief suggested the jailing of certain Jews:
"According to our investigation the Jews listed below are dangerous because they are propaganderizing [sic] against the Axis (Rome-Berlin) and they want to organize and hold meetings. We think these people should be taken away from here as soon as possible to one of the concentration fields, because their staying here could be dangerous to the regime."
http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/?p=34
(http://www.serbianna.com/blogs/images/savich_034b.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/001.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/blogs/images/savich_034a.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/002.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/003.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/004.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/005.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/006.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/007.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/012.jpg)
(http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060_files/009.jpg)
In a July, 1944 report by US intelligence, the OSS, on Albania entitled Political and Internal Conditions, it was reported that "Xhafer Deva, Rexhep Mitrovic[a] and Midhat Frasheri are with the Germans. … Anti-semitic measures are being adopted now".
A captured SS document revealed that Deva had been responsible for the deportation of Jews, Communists and partisans to extermination camps as well as for punitive raids by the SS Skanderbeg Division. The small mountain territory had few Jews, so relatively few were captured and killed. This proves that the Albanian government instituted anti-Semitic measures and did deport Albanian Jews to the death camps.
Let’s not confuse the handful of Jews living in Albania [NOT Kosovo] who escaped the Holocaust due to Italian military rule (the Italian troops did not enforce Hitler’s “Final Solution” against the Jews the way German troops did).
So the escape of Albania’s small Jewish population from the Holocaust had more to do with the Italian troops being in command of Albania from 1939 to 1943 and less to do with any noble love for Jews by the Albanians. As historian Carl K. Savich has correctly pointed out:
“During the Italian occupation, they [Jews] were able to disperse and blend in the general population. When Germany occupied Albania in 1943, the Jewish population was already beyond reach.”
http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060.shtml
http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/?p=34
http://4international.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/zero-jews-in-kosovo-today/
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Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sefardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........
What Neo-Nazi far right?
First of all, Nazism, since being based upon socializm, isn't true right and is an insult to the right wing.
Second, there is no Neo-Nazi political party in Serbia, which I can't say for your Western countries!
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Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sefardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........
You want us not to mention Croatia while you did it yourself.
Well, take it now.
Look what they are doing on concerts and how a part of their population acts like and than dare defending them again.
Please, spare us from that "I find that disgusting": "yeah, I know that happened, BUT..."; "concentrate on......" because we all know you're lying and you aren't any sorry nor find anything disgusting, 'cause if you did, you wouldn't come here spitting on that.
The real thing you're doing here is trying to bring apologia for that all and spread history revisionism.
Yeah, there is remembrance in Albania, strangely not in Yad Vashem, too, LOL. Now you're painting Albanians more Jewish than the Jews. You're hilarious.
Don't even think of putting up Serbia's economic situation, because, if any of your Western countries was under such sanctions and had such inflation as you have yourselves imposed on it, any of you would fall apart long ago, especially nowadays when so many young Westerners are weak, capricious nerds offensive to their great ancestors (RIP).
Give a PROOF that Serbia "has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe"!
"now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........"
Now you're trying to inflict that this history is "false", aren't you?
You have exactly such, ironic tone.
"although messed up by ultra right wing politics"
Listen to me, LEFTIST, there’s NO neo-Nazi political party in Serbia 'cause there is no neo-Nazi politician in Serbia.
In the other hand, there are PLENTY of your ULTRA-LEFT liberal pro-crime, pro-NATO, pro-Globalist, pro-gay, pro-marijuana etc politicians who should be shot in public as an example and as a warning to anyone who'd dare to fallow their steps.
The only problem would be that some jerk will always be found to paint them as martyrs and claim how they finished as Marcus Tulius Cicero, for example, while there is no way or possibility to meassure him with them.
And one more thing, NOBODY HERE IS A LEFTIST SO TAKE THE COMMUNIST GARBAGE OUT!!!