JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: White Israelite on September 08, 2008, 12:30:18 PM
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so I was reading about the Large Hadron Collider and apparently there are some fears from people that this thing could create a black hole and destroy the earth, any opinions on this?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/09/08/lhc.collider/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
I've heard a little bit of news about it before, but 10 billion dollars spent on this thing is pretty rediculous if you ask me. More people have been on the moon than in the deep sea, we probably know more about space than our own planet.
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Hi,
I just read something very scary from the Rueters site on this. I dont know what kind of scientist said this but it is idiotic:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL846768920080908
"If some of what we expect to find does not turn up, and things we did not foresee do, that will be even more stimulating because it means that we understand less than we thought about nature," said British physicist Brian Cox.
This man is an idiot... You do not do an experiment if it could cause unintended damage. I am beginning to think there should be protest against this experiment. It seems these scientists just want to play with their big toys.
muman613
PS: Why are they doing this on September 10th? Is there a connection to September 11th?
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Hi,
I just read something very scary from the Rueters site on this. I dont know what kind of scientist said this but it is idiotic:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL846768920080908
"If some of what we expect to find does not turn up, and things we did not foresee do, that will be even more stimulating because it means that we understand less than we thought about nature," said British physicist Brian Cox.
This man is an idiot... You do not do an experiment if it could cause unintended damage. I am beginning to think there should be protest against this experiment. It seems these scientists just want to play with their big toys.
muman613
PS: Why are they doing this on September 10th? Is there a connection to September 11th?
I don't know if the date holds anything significant but if that quote is true, rather dsturbing.
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If this machine creates a sustainable and ever increasing black hole, then it may create doubts in some surviving minds that the millions of other sustaining black holes within universe have been created by such machines. ;)
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Yes, I am quite concerned about it.....
:o
Like we already don't have enough to worry about??????
:-\
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I wish they'd build a bigger one. These colliders are very cool.
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Well if we die tomorrow, you heard it here on JTF first. I'm going to the store to get some beer and nachos O0
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Nothing may happen... I mean nothing may happen after that! ;)
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Nothing may happen... I mean nothing may happen after that! ;)
I laughed when someone said it could open a portal to an alien world, that reminds me of the video game halflife. Guess i'll be killing headcrabs with a crowbar.
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(http://www.hgsc.bcm.tmc.edu/downloads/graphics/Bang.jpg) :::D :::D :::D
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BIG BANG >> Annihilation of one in to many.
BLACK HOLE >> Annihilation of many in to one.
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(http://www.hgsc.bcm.tmc.edu/downloads/graphics/Bang.jpg) :::D :::D :::D
LMAO wow what a coincidence when I mentioned half-life
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2nbedn7.jpg)
damn image resizer, now it's too small and hard to see :(
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Hi,
I just read something very scary from the Rueters site on this. I dont know what kind of scientist said this but it is idiotic:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL846768920080908
"If some of what we expect to find does not turn up, and things we did not foresee do, that will be even more stimulating because it means that we understand less than we thought about nature," said British physicist Brian Cox.
This man is an idiot... You do not do an experiment if it could cause unintended damage. I am beginning to think there should be protest against this experiment. It seems these scientists just want to play with their big toys.
muman613
PS: Why are they doing this on September 10th? Is there a connection to September 11th?
With all due respect, this post is highly insulting to those who made it their life's work to find out how the world which God created so perfectly works. Many of these scientists are religious because they can see that the world is just so perfect, it's just that the evil God hating scientists are louder because they are presenting the illogical point of view. Finding just how perfect God's creation is should be something that's encouraged. And September 10th is just a random day, how could it be connected to September 11th? Is doing anything that may (not will) cause somebody some danger illegal in September? Last I checked it wasn't one big conspircay.
In conclusion, what's wrong with the quest for knowledge?
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This man is an idiot... You do not do an experiment if it could cause unintended damage. I am beginning to think there should be protest against this experiment. It seems these scientists just want to play with their big toys.
muman613
PS: Why are they doing this on September 10th? Is there a connection to September 11th?
With all due respect, this post is highly insulting to those who made it their life's work to find out how the world which G-d created so perfectly works. Many of these scientists are religious because they can see that the world is just so perfect, it's just that the evil G-d hating scientists are louder because they are presenting the illogical point of view. Finding just how perfect G-d's creation is should be something that's encouraged. And September 10th is just a random day, how could it be connected to September 11th? Is doing anything that may (not will) cause somebody some danger illegal in September? Last I checked it wasn't one big conspircay.
In conclusion, what's wrong with the quest for knowledge?
Nic,
There is nothing wrong with a quest for knowledge as long as the repercussions are taken into consideration. It sounds like those who are running the experiment have absolutely no idea what the outcome will be . This is very, very irresponsible and patently wrong. Playing with these kinds of things could lead to irreversible consequences. Even the 'knowledgeable' scientists dont really know what they are doing. They are playing craps with the lives of the entire world. Do they really have the right to do this? I dont think they do.
I had no problem with the experiment and I believed that it will probrobly not yield any useful information. But when I read that they dont even know what to expect, and they hope for results which they didnt forsee, then I think they are idiots of the biggest magnatude.
I am a computer scientist and I know that if I do something wrong my entire system can be brought down. So I am very careful before I do something. It seems the scientists are just blindly smashing particles in the hopes that something will happen. This is dangerous!
muman613
PS: And 9/11 is always important to me because it is the yartzeit {anniversary of death} for my brother who died in the World Trade center. It has come to represent a day of death to me and if something, G-d forbid, happens because these 'scientists' game goes bad then I will be very angry.
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From what I know about black holes these objects can become dangerous if they get out of control. Since nobody hasn't created or handled a black hole yet I feel they shouldn't play around with it.
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From what I know about black holes these objects can become dangerous if they get out of control. Since nobody hasn't created or handled a black hole yet I feel they shouldn't play around with it.
Yet. Key word. Someone needs to at some point if we are to ever understand them
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And more common sense:
People who play with fire will get burned...
muman613
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Nic,
There is nothing wrong with a quest for knowledge as long as the repercussions are taken into consideration. It sounds like those who are running the experiment have absolutely no idea what the outcome will be . This is very, very irresponsible and patently wrong. Playing with these kinds of things could lead to irreversible consequences. Even the 'knowledgeable' scientists dont really know what they are doing. They are playing craps with the lives of the entire world. Do they really have the right to do this? I dont think they do.
I had no problem with the experiment and I believed that it will probrobly not yield any useful information. But when I read that they dont even know what to expect, and they hope for results which they didnt forsee, then I think they are idiots of the biggest magnatude.
I am a computer scientist and I know that if I do something wrong my entire system can be brought down. So I am very careful before I do something. It seems the scientists are just blindly smashing particles in the hopes that something will happen. This is dangerous!
muman613
PS: And 9/11 is always important to me because it is the yartzeit {anniversary of death} for my brother who died in the World Trade center. It has come to represent a day of death to me and if something, G-d forbid, happens because these 'scientists' game goes bad then I will be very angry.
Why would you be more angry on September the 10th than any other day that isn't 11th September?
As I say, they don't know what to expect. Nor did those making nuclear reactors for the first time. Look where we are with those now, a non-oil energy source. Very dangerous stuff potentially, but it had to be done to progress science.
Anyway, the liklihood is nothing will go significantly wrong.
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Why would you be more angry on September the 10th than any other day that isn't 11th September?
As I say, they don't know what to expect. Nor did those making nuclear reactors for the first time. Look where we are with those now, a non-oil energy source. Very dangerous stuff potentially, but it had to be done to progress science.
Anyway, the liklihood is nothing will go significantly wrong.
Nic,
If they are going to destroy the world I would like it to be on a different day than the day which I remember my brother. I dont think it is too hard to understand this. The day is a dark day in my life and it just seems odd that of all the days of the year it would fall out that they would do this on the day before 9/11. There may be no correlation, but to me it seems ominous.
muman613
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Nic,
If they are going to destroy the world I would like it to be on a different day than the day which I remember my brother. I dont think it is too hard to understand this. The day is a dark day in my life and it just seems odd that of all the days of the year it would fall out that they would do this on the day before 9/11. There may be no correlation, but to me it seems ominous.
muman613
Can you not understand that there are only 365 days in a year to pick? There will be something evil attached to every day of the year, and certainly something very evil within 1 day of any day they could have picked. No offence but whilst 9/11 was the most awful tragedy in the US, it was mourned, lost, but not so relevant (on a personal level, on a level where you consider the threat it's the same to everyone in the world) to those in Europe where the LHC is. I doubt they really gave much thought to the day and it's better like that, there'll be someone mourning a terrorist/war atrocity every day of the year.
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Can you not understand that there are only 365 days in a year to pick? There will be something evil attached to every day of the year, and certainly something very evil within 1 day of any day they could have picked. No offence but whilst 9/11 was the most awful tragedy in the US, it was mourned, lost, but not so relevant (on a personal level, on a level where you consider the threat it's the same to everyone in the world) to those in Europe where the LHC is. I doubt they really gave much thought to the day and it's better like that, there'll be someone mourning a terrorist/war atrocity every day of the year.
Nic,
I dont care what other day they choose. To me PERSONALLY this is a bad day. And if they mess up the world it will be even worse.
muman613
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Nic,
I dont care what other day they choose. To me PERSONALLY this is a bad day. And if they mess up the world it will be even worse.
muman613
Muman..i realize this day was a horrible day on a personal level. I don't blame you for being upset. However, Nic is correct. There have been many days of infamy that have led to tragedy. I hope that you find comfort in your life with the loss you experienced. I don't know what it's like to wear your shoes. However, we read in Yom Kippur in the Yizkor service the way one can essentially help those who have passed to live on is to pursue the causes he/she purused. I hope your brother (?) pursued righteous causes.
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Muman..i realize this day was a horrible day on a personal level. I don't blame you for being upset. However, Nic is correct. There have been many days of infamy that have led to tragedy. I hope that you find comfort in your life with the loss you experienced. I don't know what it's like to wear your shoes. However, we read in Yom Kippur in the Yizkor service the way one can essentially help those who have passed to live on is to pursue the causes he/she purused. I hope your brother (?) pursued righteous causes.
Dr Dan,
Yes my brother was a great man and the loss is great. I will again provide a link to a memorial for my brother...
http://www.cantorfamilies.com/cantor/jsp/tribute.jsp?ID=4493
muman613
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:( :'(
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Sorry about the bad news Muman.
BTW... can we all agree that we have NO IDEA whether or not this collider will be dangerous. Unless there are any physicists here spcializing in this sorta thing on this forum.
I sure as hell hope that the scientist who claims this could start a black whole is a complete crack-pot.
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Sorry about the bad news Muman.
BTW... can we all agree that we have NO IDEA whether or not this collider will be dangerous. Unless there are any physicists here spcializing in this sorta thing on this forum.
I sure as hell hope that the scientist who claims this could start a black whole is a complete crack-pot.
Thanks Briann,
We dont know what will happen. My feeling is it will be a non-event because they dont even know what they are looking for. I just think it is wrong to do experiments like this where the scientists admit there may be 'unforeseen' events.
muman613
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This is not dangerous, it's wonderful. 8)
We're going to have so many new things come out of this eventually, and in the short term, we'll understand our universe better. O0
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I hope Hashem would have mercy on Humanity and forbid any disaster. But I agree that there is a correlation with this experiment and 9/11. 9/11 just happened because apikorsim prefered their own death to respecting Jews. Had they respected Israel and renuonced hate, recognised Jerusalem and Torah, no Islamic lunatic would have had they minimum suppoort as to create al-Qaeda. The West had already experienced that terrorist orgs. grow when haters are given hope, but they prefered to continue with their evil paths.
And now, they are doing the same, they base their argument that the collider is safe on the idea that Earth is 5.000.000.000 years old, and so, those collisons have taken place one million times naturally, and nothing happened. But Torah says Earth is only 5768 years old, and so statistics would show that these collisions would have occurred naturally only once, or never. And even if we consider Bereshit to be symbolic, wouldn't it be possible that Hashem is preventing this phenomenum in Nature everyday? These scientists are not religious. They have completely disregarded the Divine intervention and attempt to explain everything by reason, excluding G-od, even if they may believe in Him (they deny His control of the Universe).
And attempting to know the orgins of the world is not sience. It's rebellion and vanity. Why wanting to know that secret? Just to have it in mind for some decades? Don't those experts remember that, even if nothing goes wrong, they will die as any human being, and their knowledge will die with them?
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This is not dangerous, it's wonderful. 8)
We're going to have so many new things come out of this eventually, and in the short term, we'll understand our universe better. O0
I couldn't agree more.
I hope Hashem would have mercy on Humanity and forbid any disaster. But I agree that there is a correlation with this experiment and 9/11. 9/11 just happened because apikorsim prefered their own death to respecting Jews. Had they respected Israel and renuonced hate, recognised Jerusalem and Torah, no Islamic lunatic would have had they minimum suppoort as to create al-Qaeda. The West had already experienced that terrorist orgs. grow when haters are given hope, but they prefered to continue with their evil paths.
And now, they are doing the same, they base their argument that the collider is safe on the idea that Earth is 5.000.000.000 years old, and so, those collisons have taken place one million times naturally, and nothing happened. But Torah says Earth is only 5768 years old, and so statistics would show that these collisions would have occurred naturally only once, or never. And even if we consider Bereshit to be symbolic, wouldn't it be possible that Hashem is preventing this phenomenum in Nature everyday? These scientists are not religious. They have completely disregarded the Divine intervention and attempt to explain everything by reason, excluding G-od, even if they may believe in Him (they deny His control of the Universe).
And attempting to know the orgins of the world is not sience. It's rebellion and vanity. Why wanting to know that secret? Just to have it in mind for some decades? Don't those experts remember that, even if nothing goes wrong, they will die as any human being, and their knowledge will die with them?
Is this not because everything has a reason? (That reason can be traced, eventually, back to God) How, please do explain, is the quest for knowledge of our existance "vanity"? Surely your argument can be extended that there is no point in learning anything for knowledge to pass down the generations as we'll just die. For example, why bother learning about how to make good music and passing this down the generations when you're just going to die eventually. This is an argument that logically contradicts the notion of the afterlife and I therefore respectfully suggest that it is wrong. And how is this denying God's control of the universe AT ALL?! Surely it's confirming that God built a universe that is so perfectly governed by hard and fast rules that has been created to an exact specification to allow us to thrive. That's not denying God, quite the reverse.
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I couldn't agree more.
Is this not because everything has a reason? (That reason can be traced, eventually, back to G-d) How, please do explain, is the quest for knowledge of our existance "vanity"? Surely your argument can be extended that there is no point in learning anything for knowledge to pass down the generations as we'll just die. For example, why bother learning about how to make good music and passing this down the generations when you're just going to die eventually. This is an argument that logically contradicts the notion of the afterlife and I therefore respectfully suggest that it is wrong. And how is this denying G-d's control of the universe AT ALL?! Surely it's confirming that G-d built a universe that is so perfectly governed by hard and fast rules that has been created to an exact specification to allow us to thrive. That's not denying G-d, quite the reverse.
Nic,
So you believe that everything can be known and we have the ability to do what Hashem himself does. I think this is rather vain myself. There is a reason that we dont know everything. I dont have a problem admitting that I will never know everything. As I said earlier, I believe that the more we think we know the less we actually know. But Hashem has HIDDEN HIMSELF on purpose. By smashing atoms or sending probes into space we do not get closer to him, we actually distance ourselves from him.
muman613
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Nic,
So you believe that everything can be known and we have the ability to do what Hashem himself does. I think this is rather vain myself. There is a reason that we dont know everything. I dont have a problem admitting that I will never know everything. As I said earlier, I believe that the more we think we know the less we actually know. But Hashem has HIDDEN HIMSELF on purpose. By smashing atoms or sending probes into space we do not get closer to him, we actually distance ourselves from him.
muman613
Nonsense. No, we can't know what God does. However we can see the day to day workings of His creation and become more certain of it's infinite beauty and power by the day. It does not take us closer to God, every discovery made begs another question, which all trace to God. However, looking at least at the parts we as humans can understand is seriously interesting and makes many many many people (even high profile scientists though they do not speak out about it much) very sure of God's existance. Surely this is a good thing. Observing Gods creation as carefully as possibly is exciting, interesting and above all useful in scientific progress. Science deals in fact. The Big Bang is only a theory, therefore it is not scientific. Mass and gravity definitely exist (however they are unexplained) so they are scientific. Surely human nature and the thirst for being as knowledgable about God's creation as possible are excellent justifications for all of this.
Besides, you tell me one place where it says in the Bible that science experiments such as these are not to be carried out.
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Is this not because everything has a reason? (That reason can be traced, eventually, back to G-d) How, please do explain, is the quest for knowledge of our existance "vanity"? Surely your argument can be extended that there is no point in learning anything for knowledge to pass down the generations as we'll just die. For example, why bother learning about how to make good music and passing this down the generations when you're just going to die eventually. This is an argument that logically contradicts the notion of the afterlife and I therefore respectfully suggest that it is wrong.
If they care about the next generations they would work for a better world, not for curiosity. There are many good things to do for future generations and for the present also. The world establishment is preparing a horrible future.....full of hate and wars. How can they claim that they do this experiments out of love for next generations?
And I don't deny afterlife, but I suppose that, in the Olam Habaa, all neccessary knowledge will be spiritual and provided by Hashem
And how is this denying G-d's control of the universe AT ALL?! Surely it's confirming that G-d built a universe that is so perfectly governed by hard and fast rules that has been created to an exact specification to allow us to thrive. That's not denying G-d, quite the reverse.
We don't know if the world is governed perfectly by rules. We only assume it. What if there is no rule at all, and Hashem not only created the world but is also guiding it at every moment? They assume atoms collisions are safe becasuse it occurs naturally everyday. But is it safe? What if, according to physics, the world should explode every second, but Hashem is doing millions of miracles per second to save us?
The idea that the world was created once and now it is governed by natural rules is contrary to the Torah.
And the Bible has no prohibition against these experiments in written, but Torah is much more than a written text. The Sages forbade to investigate the beggining of the world.
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If they care about the next generations they would work for a better world, not for curiosity. There are many good things to do for future generations and for the present also. The world establishment is preparing a horrible future.....full of hate and wars. How can they claim that they do this experiments out of love for next generations?
And I don't deny afterlife, but I suppose that, in the Olam Habaa, all neccessary knowledge will be spiritual and provided by Hashem
We don't know if the world is governed perfectly by rules. We only assume it. What if there is no rule at all, and Hashem not only created the world but is also guiding it at every moment? They assume atoms collisions are safe becasuse it occurs naturally everyday. But is it safe? What if, according to physics, the world should explode every second, but Hashem is doing millions of miracles per second to save us?
The idea that the world was created once and now it is governed by natural rules is contrary to the Torah.
And the Bible has no prohibition against these experiments in written, but Torah is much more than a written text. The Sages forbade to investigate the beggining of the world.
OK let me start by saying I'm not Jewish so I didn't know about what the sages say. My apologies. In any case, they are not investigating the beginning of the world, they are creating conditions they believe to have been present in the beginning to investigate the world as it is at the moment.
While we can't ever know if the world is goverened by laws, we only assume it, this is true of all knowledge we claim to have. How is it anti Torah to say that God created a world which is perfect and has flawless rules governng it? Surely the whole idea of free will revolves round God just "letting us get on with it" which, logically extended would mean that the world would have to be predictable otherwise we wouldn;t know if we are coming or going.
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I do not believe this will cause the world to be destroyed. I've heard the arguments and I think it is silly to think a black hole could be so small. A black hole is a black hole because of the gravity due to mass.
:nuke:
Hashem is completely in full control because G-d has no boundaries or limitations and every day we exist is a miracle. History is not over yet. We have promises from the Torah.
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I laughed when someone said it could open a portal to an alien world, that reminds me of the video game halflife. Guess i'll be killing headcrabs with a crowbar.
That game is FUN! ;D
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If it opens a door to another dimension it could let Zombies in. I hate Zombies. I love to blow away Zombies.
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg267/Heidkue/incaseofzombie.jpg) (http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn246/nadinemel/funny/In_Case_Of_Zombies.jpg)
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Have they done the test yet? Does anyone know? Today was the big day...
I noticed we are all still here....... :laugh:
Yayyyyyyyyy.......
:dance: :dance: :dance:
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Have they done the test yet? Does anyone know? Today was the big day...
I noticed we are all still here....... :laugh:
Yayyyyyyyyy.......
:dance: :dance: :dance:
(http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/fail/4/failhole.jpg)
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Maybe not. :o I keep hearing a loud sucking noise from the direction of Europe!!
\
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Maybe not. :o I keep hearing a loud sucking noise from the direction of Europe!!
\
:::D
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:::D
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:::D 8)
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Of course it could just be that Pamela (Obama) Anderson has made a trip over there.
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Of course it could just be that Pamela (Obama) Anderson has made a trip over there.
(http://images.contentreserve.com/ImageType-100/1096-1/%7BA4D84EA5-8C38-450F-9270-96FD3A3B9668%7DImg100.jpg)
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The Large Hadron Collider is officially out of commission until spring 2009 due to damage caused by the September 10th start-up. Apparently Doomsday has been moved a year ahead people.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26856525/