JTF.ORG Forum
Guns and Self-Defense => Guns/Firearms => Topic started by: Dan Ben Noah on October 16, 2008, 08:15:34 PM
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Shalom
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How much do you want to spend. Do you plan to carry it concealed. Do you live in a single family structure or apartment? Do you have a range nearby where you can practice on a regular basis?
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Children usually start with a .22 rifle.
Adults?
Try a .38sp/.357mag combo revolver. Its simple, allows you to shoot .38sp and .357mag rounds and its lethal.
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(http://www.stelliott.com/guns/Taurus_44_Mag.JPG)
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(http://www.stelliott.com/guns/Taurus_44_Mag.JPG)
That'll work.
I'd get a shorter barrell.
And that's a Taurus (Brazialian) right?
I prefer Smith and Wesson.
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(http://www.stelliott.com/guns/Taurus_44_Mag.JPG)
That'll work.
I'd get a shorter barrell.
And that's a Taurus (Brazialian) right?
I prefer Smith and Wesson.
Yes it is a Taurus
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Yes it is a Taurus
Ricardo Lopez did himself with a Taurus .38.
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My two favorite ones are here
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,21551.0.html
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How much do you want to spend. Do you plan to carry it concealed. Do you live in a single family structure or apartment? Do you have a range nearby where you can practice on a regular basis?
I wouldn't want to spend too much more than $500 at this point. I would like to be able to carry it concealed, but that doesn't really matter. I live in a townhouse, which means I share 2 of my walls with others but I own my portion of the building plus my yard. And yes, I would be able to go to a place nearby to shoot.
Thanks to Scriabin and Americanhero for the input. I will start checking that type out.
You might want to try gun magazines because they give you prices and where to buy them
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The S&W model 60 is a good one:
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Y_aUh9288aXaaM:http://www.zombiecrisis.org)
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Isn't it best to just train with the type of gun you intend to shoot? Some guns are not practical for all situations. Carrying a large .45 caliber may not be necessary on the city streets; however, out in the forest/wilderness, you can forget about a .38 saving your life against a charging angry, rabid or just adrenaline pumped bear or even a mountain lion. Beginner or expert, you should train for the situation you need.
I thought this was a good article.. I am not a gun expert, but have a basic interest. I, don't really use handguns, but I do plan on training soon.. I spend most time in forest, so I would like to start with larger handguns, myself, since fighting off wild animals, like grizzlies or large black bears usually would require it. Not that I go out of my way looking for this type of ordeal, but I have had a few run-ins! Of course, when Barack Hussein comes into power, the only wild animals you will have to really worry about hiding in the forest, are islamonazis.
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/69185-45-acp-beginner-3.html
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Isn't it best to just train with the type of gun you intend to shoot? Some guns are not practical for all situations. Carrying a large .45 caliber may not be necessary on the city streets; however, out in the forest/wilderness, you can forget about a .38 saving your life against a charging angry, rabid or just adrenaline pumped bear or even a mountain lion. Beginner or expert, you should train for the situation you need.
I thought this was a good article.. I am not a gun expert, but have a basic interest. I, don't really use handguns, but I do plan on training soon.. I spend most time in forest, so I would like to start with larger handguns, myself, since fighting off wild animals, like grizzlies or large black bears usually would require it. Not that I go out of my way looking for this type of ordeal, but I have had a few run-ins! Of course, when Barack Hussein comes into power, the only wild animals you will have to really worry about hiding in the forest, are islamonazis.
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/69185-45-acp-beginner-3.html
You would have to unload a lot of ammo on a bear using a .45 caliber
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Come on.
Who's going to be attacked by a Grizzly bear or a cougar?
Don't be silly.
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I had this during my service and I can tell it is safe, easy to use and very robust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_USP
The younger soldiers that were on training could handle it after a few days very well and they hit more often the target than with the old P1.
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I had this during my service and I can tell it is safe, easy to use and very robust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_USP
The younger soldiers that were on training could handle it after a few days very well and they hit more often the target than with the old P1.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/HKUSP.png)
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(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/Fn-five7.jpg)
Fabrique Nationale (FN) Five-seveN (Belgium)
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
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(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/fnp9_2.jpg)
Browning PRO-9 pistol (Belgium / USA)
$587.00
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(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hs-xd-1.jpg)
9mm HS2000 pistol
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
The S&W Model 60 is $300.00 less:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83740
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:47zA2upOjWtFQM:http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Revolvers/SW_Model_60.jpg)
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
The S&W Model 60 is $300.00 less:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83740
You buy from them?
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
The S&W Model 60 is $300.00 less:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83740
You buy from them?
No. I'm just giving an example of the price.
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
The S&W Model 60 is $300.00 less:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83740
You buy from them?
No. I'm just giving an example of the price.
Do you own a Gun?
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
The S&W Model 60 is $300.00 less:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83740
You buy from them?
No. I'm just giving an example of the price.
Do you own a Gun?
What's the difference?
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
The S&W Model 60 is $300.00 less:
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83740
You buy from them?
No. I'm just giving an example of the price.
Do you own a Gun?
What's the difference?
Because you seem to favor revolvers
So you might own a revolver
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http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83165
Glock Pistol Model 17 PI1750201
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http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83165
Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.
Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.
I like simplicity.
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Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.
What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88
This gun is good, but Scribarin is right. I would not pay this price.
I think I would take the revolver too.
For self-defense it is adequate.
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Isn't it best to just train with the type of gun you intend to shoot? Some guns are not practical for all situations. Carrying a large .45 caliber may not be necessary on the city streets; however, out in the forest/wilderness, you can forget about a .38 saving your life against a charging angry, rabid or just adrenaline pumped bear or even a mountain lion. Beginner or expert, you should train for the situation you need.
I thought this was a good article.. I am not a gun expert, but have a basic interest. I, don't really use handguns, but I do plan on training soon.. I spend most time in forest, so I would like to start with larger handguns, myself, since fighting off wild animals, like grizzlies or large black bears usually would require it. Not that I go out of my way looking for this type of ordeal, but I have had a few run-ins! Of course, when Barack Hussein comes into power, the only wild animals you will have to really worry about hiding in the forest, are islamonazis.
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/69185-45-acp-beginner-3.html
.45 ACP is self sufficient for self defense, I would avoid 9mm.
I personally recommend a handgun in .40 S&W, preferrably Glock or Springfield XD.
I had this during my service and I can tell it is safe, easy to use and very robust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_USP
The younger soldiers that were on training could handle it after a few days very well and they hit more often the target than with the old P1.
I own a USP, damn fine handgun, overengineered and very ergonomic to me :)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i249/PILMAN/USP-1.jpg)
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83165
Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.
Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.
I like simplicity.
You ever seen the torture tests on Glocks and modern semi-autos? Military standard testing below
(http://www.streetpro.com/usp/images/usp-cold.jpg)
The HK USP is probably the most thoroughly tested pistol ever produced. The testing process of the USP, already extreme in exceeding strict NATO AC-225 Military Specification Standards, in many ways mirrors the regimen the HK SOCOM pistol was subjected to .
The barrel of the USP is cold-hammer forged from high-grade chromium steel, the same type of steel used in cannon barrels. During testing, a bullet was deliberately lodged in a USP barrel. Another cartridge was then fired into the obstructing bullet. The second bullet cleared the barrel, resulting in a barely noticeable bulge. The pistol was then fired for accuracy and the resulting group measured less than 2.5 inches at 25 meters.
Other less destructive tests reveal much about USP reliability and durability. Function testing a wide selection of ammunition types, one test gun fired more than 10,000 rounds without a single malfunction. That means no stove-pipes, no failures to feed o r eject; no jams! Endurance firings of test samples has passed 20,000 rounds of high performance .40 S&W ammo without any parts failures. Sever temperature tests required the USP to be frozen at -44 degrees F (-42 degrees C) and then fired, frozen again a nd quickly heated to 153 degrees F (67 degrees C), and then fired again. These temperature spectrum tests were continually repeated, and with no adverse effects on the USP.
Demanding NATO Mil-Spec mud and rain tests were conducted, again with the USP passing without difficulty. Water immersion and salt spray also presented no problems to the USP. Outside metal surfaces of the USP are covered with an extremely hard nitro-gas carburized and black oxidized finish.
All internal metal parts, including springs, are coated with a special Dow-Corning process that reduces friction and wear. Both the internal and external finishes have proved to be especially corrosion resistant. For more than two years, German Navy comba t divers have used the same process on weapons parts without any signs of rust.
Safety testing exceeded the ANSI/SAAMI requirements adopted in May 1990. These included dropping a USP with a primed cartridge and decocked hammer on a variety of surfaces without discharging. The USP easily surpassed these commercial requirements, as wel l as German police tests, including repeated drop tests from six feet, hammer first, onto a steel backed concrete slab. Proof round firing resulted in no cracks, deformations, or increase in head space. attempts to fire the USP pistol with an unlocked bre ech proved impossible.
The HK recoil reduction system (patent pending), a mechanical dual spring buffering device, is another feature common to the USP and the HK SOCOM pistol. During the USP testing phase, HK engineers discovered this innovative unit reduces the peak force act ing on the USP grip to less than 300 Newtons (66 pounds). Peak force shock on competing .40 caliber polymer and metal framed pistols climbed to more than 5000 Newtons (1102 pounds).
The primary benefit of low peak shock is a decrease in wear and tear on pistol components. Reduction in peak shock forces also contributes to softer recoil for the shooter, although these "felt recoil" values are much more subjective.
Excerpted from the 1993 Edition of Sentinel Magazine.
Testing Data
Information provided by HK, Incorporated
Tolerance Inspection Trigger Pull, firing pin energy and
protrusion, headspace, caliber,
velocities, etc.
Safety Inspection Controls and safeties
Proof firing (2 Winchester DP40 proof
rounds)
Targeting Zeroing (25 meters, POA/POI)
Ammunition compatibility
More than 85,000 rounds fired thus
far during testing of the USP40
Accuracy (USP40, 10 shots, 25 meters)
Most accurate (3.2 - 3.9 in.)
Reliability/functional test 20,000 round reliability test
Fired in various attitudes, checked
every 1,000 rounds for cracked or
broken parts and for accuracy.
slide manually cycled 1,000 times
after each 10,000 rounds fired.
No normal wear detected in less than
5,100 rounds
USP40 and USP9 perfect record through
first half of the test. Second half
of test ongoing at time of writing
(This document
was printed in August of 1993.)
Barrel obstruction test Live round fired with projectile
positioned at forcing cone and
30mm into muzzle.
No damage to pistol.
Accuracy unaffected.
Drop tests According to SAMMI/ANSI Z299.5/1990 and
German BMI test methods. Primed case in
chamber, 13 dummy rounds loaded, hammer cocked,
safety/decocking lever set to "fire"
All six sixes of weapon, plus 45 degree top
muzzle, onto rubber from height of 4 feet.
Six times onto cocked hammer onto steel/concrete
from height of 3 and 6.7 feet.
No ignition or primer indent permitted. Pistol must
function normally after tests are completed.
Noise level test Measured in dB (A) height of muzzle, 1 meter front
and left of muzzle.
Winchester and Remington 180gr JHP=139 dB
Remington 155gr JHP=143.5 dB
Fouling test 1,000 rounds w/o cleaning or lubrication
Comparable to S&W 4006
Environment test (NATO AC225-D14) Low temp (-46 C, -51 F)
High temp (63 C, 145 F)
Thermal shock (-46 to +63 C)
Mud bath (10 minutes exposure)
Particulate (sand) (10 minute exposure)
Freezing rain (1 hour to -46 C)
http://www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html
Plus you get more capacity with a semi-auto.
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Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.
Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.
I like simplicity.
You ever seen the torture tests on Glocks and modern semi-autos? Military standard testing below
Revolvers are simple and reliable.
Furthermore, this guy is asking for a starter gun.
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Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.
Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.
I like simplicity.
You ever seen the torture tests on Glocks and modern semi-autos? Military standard testing below
Revolvers are simple and reliable.
Furthermore, this guy is asking for a starter gun.
A semi-auto is fine for a starter gun and he can obtain one under 500 dollars.
A revolver isn't immune to problems, i've seen cylinders misalign.
Here's how you field strip a glock, very easy and barely any parts.
less than 10 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXTEZA3vs9E
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Thanks, this is all very helpful. Any recommendations on some good starter rifles/shotguns?
The Remington 870 Express:
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:th9cIaIRVgEfLM:http://img.photobucket.com/)
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Thanks, this is all very helpful. Any recommendations on some good starter rifles/shotguns?
The Remington 870 Express:
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:th9cIaIRVgEfLM:http://img.photobucket.com/)
That is a good one
I have this Mossberg 500 Persuader
(http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/50411.jpg)
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Mossberg 590.
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personally i think all guns should be destroyed and any disput sorted out without any violence and the world would be a better place for all religions. :dance:
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personally i think all guns should be destroyed and any disput sorted out without any violence and the world would be a better place for all religions. :dance:
Good for you
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personally i think all guns should be destroyed and any disput sorted out without any violence and the world would be a better place for all religions. :dance:
Good point, guns should be destroyed so the weak and the elderly can't defend themselves against the physically strong, or women should be raped by men because guns don't exist, or Jews should be murdered by Nazis because guns don't exist because we all know that we're capable of fighting superior numbers without arms, gee why didn't I think of that ::)
SARCASM
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Wow, all these guns are looking great! I wanna one ;D
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I got my first gun when I was 11 years old, it was an air rifle called Slavia 630. :dance: ;)
(http://www.z-shops.eu/images/CZ-630.jpg)
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I got my first gun when I was 11 years old, it was an air rifle called Slavia 630. :dance: ;)
(http://www.z-shops.eu/images/CZ-630.jpg)
Nice weapon
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I got my first gun when I was 11 years old, it was an air rifle called Slavia 630. :dance: ;)
(http://www.z-shops.eu/images/CZ-630.jpg)
Nice weapon
When will you buy the Zoraki 914 Gas-blank pistol? You can buy with your father, only can't wear it on the street, but if you will be 18 and requir permession you will be able to wear it everywhere. :)
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I think in April when I am 18
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I think in April when I am 18
Save your money for the buy then. ;) And don't afraid to use it! :P
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I will not be afraid to use it. ;)
I will shot my enemy to the ground!
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:dance:Cool
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I like your pic... you and the israeli flag! Great!!!
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I like your pic... you and the israeli flag! Great!!!
And the beautiful Jewish and Israeli girls like it too, they add me on facebook, since I added this picture there. ;D Thanks brother by the way. :) Do you like the AMD 65? I think its beautiful gun!
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I like every gun! Give me a gun and I will go to a mosque and make a party
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I like every gun! Give me a gun and I will go to a mosque and make a party
How cool idea. :dance:
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What about this?
http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=3
Mossberg 500 pump action as a starter?
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I actually want a small weapon. A pistol
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I actually want a small weapon. A pistol
Zoraki 914 as I said, buy it now in Germany for free, and if you want wear it, requir permession, when you become 18 years old. :dance: Good luck! ;)
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Thank you! I hope I have luck and my parents say yes
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I'm a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to firearms. I have a preference for older weapons which have a simpler upkeep to them, and they are less expensive.
If you are a beginner, and want to start out in pistols, I suggest trying out a Romanian TTC Tokarev surplus pistol, which you can get for around $200.00 from J&G, and the ammunition for it is also very inexpensive (7.62x25 mm which you can get about 1260 rounds for about $140.00)
For rifles, starting out with a .22 Rifle of your choice makes a lot of sense. Later you can try a larger calibre. An inexpensive option would be a surplus Mosin-Nagant Rifle. They are simple bolt action rifles, but very accurate and highly effective. As well the ammunition for them is very inexpensive (7.62x54R mm which you can get about 450 rounds for about $80.00 to $100.00 on average), but be cautious of what ammo you buy for it. Spent cartridges from lesser quality versions of this ammo sometimes tends to stick in the chamber when it gets hot.
From there you will probably be ready to test your mettle with more sophisticated weaponry and semi-auto rifles.
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Any weapon is good only as the person holding the weapon....PRACTICE PRACTICE.... There are better weapons for different purposes...However the best weapon with a poor shooter is worthless.
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Air guns are very good for a beginer. :dance: