JTF.ORG Forum
Save Western Civilization => Save Serbia => Topic started by: AryehYehudah on October 31, 2008, 12:33:48 AM
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Hi, I am just wondering what you guys think about this. I am looking a pro-Serbia neo-nazi group who is fighting for Serbians rights. They claim its Jews and Zionists who were responsible for attacking Serbia and giving Kosovo to Albanians. I know from talking with many Serbs that you support Israel and shun Nazism, so please don't feel that I am accusing you, as I did in the past. Anyhow, I know that Blood and Honor groups and other Neo-Nazis are more prevalent in Russia, Croatia, Bosnia and other post-Soviet eastern bloc countries thatn Serbia. I just would like to know what majority of Serbians think. Is there many Serbians who believe Zionism or Jews are responsible for the devastation that Serbs incurred at the hands of the left-wing liberal governments. I was reading some neo-nazis boards online and viewing websites and I came across some disturbing pro-Serbian nationalism on these sites. Well, I know Serbians feel hurt and left in the gutter by the West, but I wonder, out of desperation, are many siding with White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis? I know obviously that the Serbs on this website are pro-Zionist and Jew and shun all the anti-semitism that the Blood and Honor group promotes. As I said, I am still learning more of Serbia and would like to hear some opinions. Please tell me what they think of this Serbian Blood and Honor movement. According to them, they say the Jews are responsible for all the hardships Serbia faces today.
http://www.skrewdriver.net/serb1.html
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I am glad you ask this.We Serbs do have a few Nazi in Serbia now,but you have them in Israel as well.
Why are they?A srewed lot,some of them have one parent Muslem,some of them are looking to blame
somebody,for the povetry.
By the way most of them think most of Jews are rich.
Maybe they are Nazi,since they do not mix well with other Serbs.
Some get paid to visit Serbian forums and pretend that there iz more Nazi in Serbia,than it is.
They are not strong,just stupid,slow and not very brave.
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Personally I know just one Serb who is Neo Nazi, but this group of ppl is small, weird!
I guess in all countries one will find specimens like that! you can not judge a whole country to be antizionistic if 2 men are Nazi!
Another analogy can be for ex: if Gypsies from Romania go abroad their country and do bad things there, that doesn't mean that all Romanians are criminals!
We condemn this type of behavior in Serbia! Serbs didn't allow Neo Nazi March in Belgrade two weeks ago! That would answer your question?
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Personally I know just one Serb who is Neo Nazi, but this group of ppl is small, weird!
I guess in all countries one will find specimens like that! you can not judge a whole country to be antizionistic if 2 men are Nazi!
Another analogy can be for ex: if Gypsies from Romania go abroad their country and do bad things there, that doesn't mean that all Romanians are criminals!
We condemn this type of behavior in Serbia! Serbs didn't allow Neo Nazi March in Belgrade two weeks ago! That would answer your question?
Yes, I am happy to hear Serbia banned such a march. I did not know that. I know in most Eastern EUropean countries, including RUssia, neo-nazism is celebrated and they march freely. Even here in USA, neo-nazis are relatively free to march and advertise their Jew-hating propaganda machine. I guess the pictures were scary on the website and give people false understanding. They are polluting your churches by holding Serbia flag in front of Serbian Orthodox Church and using the hitler salute. Many Jews, including myself, are freaked out at Eastern European nazis, so when we see these pics we worry. I realize these are a subset of rogues who are trying to defame your country and church. These people shoiuld be executed, but I know in the name of "human rights" they will be allowed to promote their garbage.
Please fight to stop these neo-nazis who are feeding on your people as prey. THey see you are in bad situation and will love to make you think Jews were responsible for the destruction of Serbia and Kosovo. They will tell you Madeline Albright, the Jewess, is the person behind this. Just remember there is many Jews who have voted to destroy homes of other Jews and even working to genocide our own race. But, these nazi apes love to have a common enemy. THey are simple and white people with low intelligence and so they like afro-americans will focus on one enemy for all problems. They don't realize how many Jews have been fighting Muslims, foreigners and trying to establish a peaceful and progressive society. They always close their eyes on the much greater majority of gentiles who have bene workign for the destruction of the White Race. Yes, they claim the Jews are responsible for all heresies.
I pray Serbians don't buy into this garbage. Iwas just reading a huge posting on Blood and Honor website praising some Serbian general for his work in murdering Jews in WWII. They seem to have some affection for your country, this group. Please, I hope Serbians don't buy into this garbage like the Russians and other Eastern Europeans have. I have fiath Serbians will rise above this, just as they rose above Nazis in WWII and fought to the death to defend their nation and help assist Jewish people.
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NAZI APES.Yes that what they are and they look like apes.
They are not strong,but should be put down now,not to wait.
Sometimes I go to Serbian forum,and if I am upset with some nasty Nazi,I give them
the answer in Jidish or hebrew. :laugh:
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Shalom Brother AryehYehudah,
Thanks for posting this question. Of course I can't speak for all righteous Gentile Serbs here on JTF, but as a Jew, I can tell you what I know after doing my own extensive research on this issue independently. These neo-Nazi and "White Power" groups in Serbia are - thank G-d - a very tiny minority of the Serbian population.
A few major differences between these Serbian neo-Nazi groups and the Croatian Ustasha Nazis are:
1) Groups like "Blood and Honor" are comprised mainly of unemployed, young, poorly educated, soccer-hooligan types who fortunately are a very small percentage of the Serbian population.
2) Unlike the Croatian Ustasha which has very broad support in terms of Croatian culture [eg musicians,poets,authors], the Croatian Catholic clergy, the Croat intelligentsia-academia in the universities, the official Croatian government and Croat social strata across all age, education and income groups, there is no similar mass overwhelming support from the Serbian population as a whole for any of these neo-Nazi groups.Serbs overwhelmingly condemn these groups as the "lunatic fringe of society" just like they are condemned as lunatics here in America by the majority of the American people.
3) In Croatia they have this band called "Thompson" [lead singer's real name is Marko Perkovic] who glorifies the Holocaust in the Jasenovac death camp and sings songs praising "Maks' butchers"!! - who were a group of incredibly cruel Ustasha killers in Jasenovac led by Vjekoslav "Maks" Luburic - and he regularly sings songs about Croatia being a victim of the "satanic Jewish-Masonic conspiracy". Thompson attracts many Croat nuns, priests and former government officials to his concerts. "Thompson"'s concerts regularly attract upwards of 60,000 to 100,000 Croats - basically the maximum amount that can fit into the stadiums in the Croatian capitol, Zagreb -and these 60,000 to 100,000 Croats all simultaneously give the "Za Dom Spremni" [Croat version of the German "Sieg Heil" salute]whilst listening to his "music"!
Please read the following article:
Oppose Fascist Rock Star's US Tour with the Truth - Part 1 by Jared Israel - Member of the International Commission on Jasenovac
http://emperors-clothes.com/tour.htm
(http://tinyurl.com/2jqj8v)
[inappropriate image removed]
(http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012548thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_koncert_fasisticki_pozfrav.jpg)
(http://emperor.vwh.net/pix/manyhands.jpg)
(http://emperor.vwh.net/pix/practicing-small.jpg)
(http://www.juliagorin.com/images/NunThompson.jpg)
[inappropriate image removed]
[inappropriate image removed]
(http://emperor.vwh.net/pix/flag-u.jpg)
[inappropriate image removed]
(http://emperor.vwh.net/pix/legija-s.jpg)
(http://emperor.vwh.net/pix/kidfront-a.jpg)
(http://emperor.vwh.net/pix/kidback-a.jpg)
(http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012730thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_koncert_mac.jpg)
(http://www.lupiga.com/vijesti/slike/20070618012841thompson_maksimir_maksimirski_stadion_marko_perkovic_koncert_za_dom_spremni.jpg)
See also Julia Gorin's excellent articles at the following links:
http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=911
http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/index.php?s=Perkovic&submit=Search&paged=2
http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/index.php?s=Perkovic&submit=Search
As you know brother AryehYehudah, we have here in the United States hundreds, perhaps thousands of these skinhead, neo-Nazi, "White Power" "White Nationalist" and so-called "Aryan" groups all over the country - like the White Aryan Nations, White Aryan Resistance, StørmFrønt, the Ku Klux Klan, etc., whom we of course - in the interests of free speech - allow to stage rallies and protest publicly against the imaginary American "ZOG" but most righteous right-wing conservative Americans condemn these groups and distance themselves from them. The same attitude applies to the vast majority of Serbs in Serbia.
I have had a few confrontations with members from these neo-Nazi groups on zootube and one thing I have noticed is that zootube definitely goes out of its way to encourage and promote these vile neo-Nazi groups as much as possible, but when Jews and righteous Gentiles - whether Serbian or American - react by trying to post videos in response, they invariably get deleted by zootube's moderators. JTF brother Dalmacija has already written to me about these Serbian neo-Nazi groups and I can confirm independently from my own research that what he told me about them being a tiny minority of the Serbian population was - thankfully - the truth.
Shalom,
Joshua.
EDIT: Please do NOT post inappropriate or immodest images -Shlomo
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Shalom once again brother AryehYehudah,
I forgot to mention that there is growing evidence to suggest that intelligence agencies from Western governments in the European Union and NATO are covertly supporting these European neo-Nazi groups behind the scenes. The EU and NATO have covertly funded and promoted these global neo-Nazi groups [like "Blood and Honor"] - and especially their chapter in Serbia - in order to deflect blame and responsibilty for the destruction of Serbia during the 1990's by EU/NATO governments themselves - and to simultaneously paint the entire Serbian nation with a Nazi brush, thus making the defense of the righteous Serbian people all the more difficult.
They do this by disseminating crude propaganda promoting the ridiculous and insane theory that "the Jews" who supposedly "control the Zionist US government" were behind the nearly 10 year long UN sanctions imposed on Serbia and the 3 month long terror bombing of civilians in Serbia and Kosovo-Metohija from March to June 1999.Their so-called "evidence" for this ludicrous theory? That "there were many Zionist Jews in Bill Clinton's administration like Holbrooke, Clark, Berger, Albright, Cohen, Rubin, et al".
Of course, they DON'T tell the truth that these so-called "Zionist Jews" were NOT real Zionists at all and of course neglect to mention that they worked tirelessly AGAINST the interests and security of Israel and the Jewish people during Clinton's two terms in office.
See the articles in the "Civil Wars In Yugoslavia" section at http://www.hirhome.com for more in-depth information.
Shalom,
Joshua.
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Shalom Joshua,
THanks for this detailed and well constructed information. Yes, I think I am starting to get a better idea of the situation. You're right, every country has neo-nazis and many other countries are promoting them. What made worried about Serbia is that it was neglected and abused and I thought maybe some people would lash out at Jews, as they are seen as people of the "West". Well, I think most Serbians have proven to be honorable and brave in times of crisis and, just as the resisted Hitler's decree of hating Jews in WWII, today they also do not forget their history and resist the pleas of these same people. Of course, one reason I still worry about Serbia falling into this trap is that they do claim brotherhood with Russia, which is a major anti-semitic nation. However, the mentality of Russians does not seem to rub off on Serbians and they seem to be independant in their ideologies and principles. Well, I do feel more confident aobut Serbia. Seeing this garbage on the web will only divert people from the truth and give Jewish people wrong view of Serbians.
It is true Europeans would like to build and fund neo-nazi groups in countries they feel are contrary to their gay, leftist , Pro-Islamic and Pro-Communist ideologies. What I see in Croatia is insanity.
This is off the subject, but relates to what I see with these Croatian nazi celebrations:
I wish Israel was not so cowardly right now. We have no backbone anymore and our country is full of cowards and homosexuals. How can we let a non-nuclear country like Croatia so openly celebrate nazism? I think Israel should threaten to nuke their country or have them stop. If I was the leader of Israel I would tell them that any country who openly celebrates the mass-murder of my people, wil lthemselves be mass murdered. Eye for an eye! And better their children fall than mine! Well, this hedonism is proliferating in Europe and it seems there is a few nations who are trying to resist the decimation being caused by the liberal, homosexual, nazi , Pro-Islamic empire that is being established in Europe. Just like rats in a sewer, so are these people multiplying throughout Europe and USA too. I wish Israel would start conquering these countries like in ancient times and setting up military bases so we can have a leg to stand on. Why should we have to beg Turkey for permission to do test flights with our air force? Why should we beg India for permission to launch satellites? We only own 5% of our original land and we are even disposing of more of it, to leftist-Arab nazi scum. I think Serbia should prepare to attack its enemies, all the same if it is was concerned for its well being. Serbia should train itself for an attack on Croatia and BOsnia. Maybe they are doing this and hoping Russia will defend them. However, Russia would never do so. If Israel can get a right-wing leader in power, this joint effort would be a viable option. Europeans leftists are concerned only with destroying anything holy and pure.
Sorry, I know some may disagree with my analogy about conquest, but that is how Israel established its sovereignty in ancient times, by conquering its enemies and taking over their land. Better that it is in our hands than the hands of our enemies.
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I wish Israel was not so cowardly right now. We have no backbone anymore and our country is full of cowards and homosexuals. How can we let a non-nuclear country like Croatia so openly celebrate nazism? I think Israel should threaten to nuke their country or have them stop. If I was the leader of Israel I would tell them that any country who openly celebrates the mass-murder of my people, will themselves be mass murdered. Eye for an eye! And better their children fall than mine! Well, this hedonism is proliferating in Europe and it seems there is a few nations who are trying to resist the decimation being caused by the liberal, homosexual, nazi , Pro-Islamic empire that is being established in Europe. Just like rats in a sewer, so are these people multiplying throughout Europe and USA too. I wish Israel would start conquering these countries like in ancient times and setting up military bases so we can have a leg to stand on. Why should we have to beg Turkey for permission to do test flights with our air force? Why should we beg India for permission to launch satellites? We only own 5% of our original land and we are even disposing of more of it, to leftist-Arab nazi scum. I think Serbia should prepare to attack its enemies, all the same if it is was concerned for its well being. Serbia should train itself for an attack on Croatia and BOsnia. Maybe they are doing this and hoping Russia will defend them. However, Russia would never do so. If Israel can get a right-wing leader in power, this joint effort would be a viable option. Europeans leftists are concerned only with destroying anything holy and pure.
Shalom brother AryehYehudah,
Great reply! I agree that once the people of Israel and Serbia throw out their traitorous leftist leaders and put into power true conservative right-wing leaders, we Jews should forge a formal military alliance with righteous right-wing Serbs and destroy our common Islamofascist and Nazi enemies.
I hope I don't offend my Serbian brothers and sisters here who look to Russia with [false delusions of] hope, but the fact of the matter is that Russia is still run by former communists and a criminal robber-baron monopoly-"capitalist" [i.e., Globalist] oligarchical elite, who over the last 18 years have done very little to help Serbia apart from engage in rhetoric and hollow, empty promises of military assistance. We have seen this terrible betrayal and stabbing of the Serbian people in the back by the Russian political elite time and time again over the last 18 years.
Russia could have smashed every NATO and EU attack against Serbia during the 1990's but deliberately chose not to do so. In fact Russia did the complete opposite by backing every pro-EU/NATO leftist,globalist, traitorous anti-American, anti-Serbian manuever by the Clinton administration. First, by abandoning the Serbian people to their fate in their darkest hour and most critical time of need in the months leading up to the expulsion of 500,000 Serbs from Croatia and Krajina in 1995. Secondly, during the 3 month NATO bombing of civilian areas in Kosovo-Metohija and Serbia from March to June 1999.
Since Vladimir Putin came to power in 2000, Russia has continued the Yeltsin-era communist policies: instead of supplying Serbia with the most sophisticated anti-aircraft and surface to surface weapons so Serbia can defend herself, Putin's regime supplies communist Venezuela and Islamofascist Iran with these high-tech weapons instead!
This is a terrible ongoing betrayal of their blood brother Slavic Serbian Orthodox Christian kin which I hope the righteous Serbs here on JTF can agree with me is totally unacceptable behavior by the Russian government. This is NOT the way a true blood-brother ally and friend would behave towards a "little sister" like Serbia in her time of greatest need when she is threatened with annihilation by the Albanian and Bosnian muslim savage beasts in Kosovo-Metohija and Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as by the Croat Ustasha Nazi beasts in Croatia and occupied Krajina.
I wrote elsewhere on another thread:
If Serbs truly wish to regain their freedom and their sacred religious and cultural heartland they must be prepared to fight and die for it. History has proven time and again that freedom doesn't come cheap. If the EU threatens the Serbs with economic sanctions (the way Bush Snr did in 1992 via the UN) or if the EU threatens a military attack against Serbia via NATO, the Serbs should immediately threaten to annihilate all of the Albanian muslims in Kosovo and all of the Bosnian muslims in Bosnia.
If Washington decides to again betray the Serbs - the way Washington did during the 1990's under those two swines Bill and Hillary Clinton - and back the fascist-socialist EU in any kind of blackmail by making Clinton-esque economic or military threats against the Serbs (a la March,1999) for daring to reclaim their Serbian dignity, honor and national sovereignty - then Serbia should immediately launch a blitzkrieg style military campaign to expel all EU/NATO troops, retake all of Kosovo-Metohija and expel all the Albanian muslims and Bosnian muslims from Serb-land once and for all.
Yes, this will entail many civilian and military deaths but this is the only way to deal with muslim Nazi scum who commit beheadings of "infidels" for fun.
After kicking out the traitorous, evil pro-EU regime of Boris Tadic [who recently said that "Serbs should forget the Holocaust in WW2 Ustasha Croatia"], Serbia should build fast breeder nuclear reactors and produce several hundred nuclear warheads with sophisticated intercontinental or at least intermediate range ballistic missile delivery systems capable of defeating any kind of anti-missile defense system that the Croats, Albanian and Bosnian muslims could possibly obtain from any source. That way, in the event of a large scale regional or European war, the Serbs would not have to fear a multiple attack by the Ustasha Croats, Bosnian and Albanian Islamofascists on several fronts as happened during the Holocaust from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars of the 1990's.
Our experiences as Jews since the founding of the Holy Jewish homeland of Eretz Yisrael in 1948, show us that the only thing these muslim savage beasts understand and respect is OVERWHELMING MILITARY FORCE.
Likewise, our allies - the righteous Gentile Serbs inside and outside Serbia's borders - must also realize, from their bitter experiences during the Holocaust in Croatia and Bosnia from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars waged against Serbs during the 1990's [eg the mass beheadings,throat cutting and bodily dismemberment of Serbian men,women and children in Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia], that the only thing these murderous Croat Ustasha, Albanian KLA and Bosnian SDA muslim Nazi beasts understand and respect is sheer OVERWHELMING BRUTE FORCE. If the chips are down and worse comes to worst in a major European or World War, then clearly survival instincts of self-defense demand that in order to prevent another repeat of the 1941-1945 Holocaust of Jews and Serbs we need to use OVERWHELMING BRUTE FORCE in the form of Nuclear annihilation of these murderous savage Nazi beasts in a pre-emptive strike against their bases of operation, BEFORE these savage beasts try to annihilate us - Jews and Serbs - with the very same type of weapons. A reminder of what awaits us if Israel, America and Serbia fail to act against these beasts before it is too late:
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5605/nukeexplosionxc3.gif)
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9858/abombpj8.gif)
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AryehYehudah
You, AryehYehudah, and like these Nazis both hate Orthodoxy.
You, AryehYehudah, can start to call me a Jew - together with these anti- Orthodox friends of you. Because according to these Nazis, which you promote, here, I am following a Jewish religion....
You also had problem with my religion in the past?
AryehYehudah are you also saying that I am following a Jewish sekt?
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Hi, I am just wondering what you guys think about this. I am looking a pro-Serbia neo-nazi group who is fighting for Serbians rights. They claim its Jews and Zionists who were responsible for attacking Serbia and giving Kosovo to Albanians. I know from talking with many Serbs that you support Israel and shun Nazism, so please don't feel that I am accusing you, as I did in the past. Anyhow, I know that Blood and Honor groups and other Neo-Nazis are more prevalent in Russia, Croatia, Bosnia and other post-Soviet eastern bloc countries thatn Serbia. I just would like to know what majority of Serbians think. Is there many Serbians who believe Zionism or Jews are responsible for the devastation that Serbs incurred at the hands of the left-wing liberal governments. I was reading some neo-nazis boards online and viewing websites and I came across some disturbing pro-Serbian nationalism on these sites. Well, I know Serbians feel hurt and left in the gutter by the West, but I wonder, out of desperation, are many siding with White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis? I know obviously that the Serbs on this website are pro-Zionist and Jew and shun all the anti-semitism that the Blood and Honor group promotes. As I said, I am still learning more of Serbia and would like to hear some opinions. Please tell me what they think of this Serbian Blood and Honor movement. According to them, they say the Jews are responsible for all the hardships Serbia faces today.
http://www.skrewdriver.net/serb1.html
It would be easier to convince Serbs to join our side as the moderators on Nazi forums generally have multinational sections and the Serbs and Croats always get into fights, a lot of the admins of those forums are partial to keeping the Croats and end up banning Serbs who raise their voice about the issue, I think a lot of them are misguided and directing their hate on a scapegoat.
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It would be easier to convince Serbs to join our side as the moderators on Nazi forums generally have multinational sections and the Serbs and Croats always get into fights, a lot of the admins of those forums are partial to keeping the Croats and end up banning Serbs who raise their voice about the issue, I think a lot of them are misguided and directing their hate on a scapegoat.
Shalom brother WhiteIsraelite,
I agree that it is a lot easier to convince Serbs to join JTF. The Ustasha Croats are antisemitic Jew hating Nazis who idolize and adore Adolph Hitler because he created the Ustasha [Nazi] state for them in World War 2. The vast majority of Croats today celebrate and glorify this murderous state [see the photos I posted above as proof - 100,000 Croats - the maximum number that can fit into the Croatian stadiums - flock to see the Nazi band "Thompson" led by Croat Ustasha fanatic, Marko Perkovic] where 100,000 Croats give the Nazi salute and sing along with Marko Perkovic's songs praising the Holocaust of Serbs and Jews in the Croatian death camps known as Jasenovac and Stara Gradiska.
Of course our job here at JTF would be a lot easier if zootube would stop banning Chaim's videos where he has exposed all of this Croat Ustasha Nazism. Chaim's brilliant videos discussing this mass Croat support for the Ustasha are constantly flagged by Croats - especially this Croat Nazi piece of garbage calling himself "Marbus":
http://www.youtube.com/Marbus0
He also has a channel here where he attacks Chaim:
http://www.youtube.com/user/JTFSUX
and this is his other channel where he pretends he is from Denmark:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DarkPyramid0
He even brags about it his anti-JTF flagging campaign on another anti-JTF neo-Nazi zootube page run by some David Duke-loving neo-Nazi freak with the user name of "SamanthaTheCat":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FDY-6P62YE
"ahhh Jsullvian he was the first victim of my JTF flagging campaign a year ago. Got him suspened from Youtube back when i used to flagg JTF videos."
Notice especially the large letter "U" on the left hand side of his channel page - you can see the "U" [Ustasha] symbol sitting atop the Croat Ustasha flag. Also notice the background image of his channel is that of Croat Nazi Fuehrer, Ante Pavelic!!
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3137/marbususerpage2sv5.jpg)(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8352/marbususerpagezx6.jpg)
The pro-Nazi leftist morons at Peace Now have even favorited Marbus' video falsely calling Chaim is a "terrorist" but without telling us that Marbus is a neo-Nazi Ustasha terrorist admirer himself!! One zootube user bythe name of "USA4Evamore" wrote the following about this Nazi piece of garbage responsible for Chaim's videos being pulled from zootube:
Has anybody noticed that one of the video favorites of Peace Now is this guy Marbus who is a Croatian Nazi Ustasha terrorist admirer?Marbus even has a picture of the Croat Nazi Fuehrer,Ante Pavelic,on his profile as the background image!
Visit pavelic-papers(dot)com.The Croat Ustasha are the oldest European Nazi terrorist group in the world still in existence.They murdered over a Million Serbs,Jews & Gypsies during the Holocaust.The Ustasha are admired by most Croats today as "Croat heroes"!
To All JTF brothers and sisters here who have zootube accounts - It is payback time: flag all of the videos uploaded to zootube by this Nazi piece of garbage going by the zootube user names of "Marbus0", "JTFSUX" and "DarkPyramid0".
http://www.youtube.com/Marbus0
http://www.youtube.com/user/JTFSUX
http://www.youtube.com/user/DarkPyramid0
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Neo Nazi sluts!
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Comment by JTF brother ProJewCatholic:
"Neo Nazi sluts!"
LOL! ROFL! LMAO!
:::D :::D :laugh: :laugh: :throw: :throw:
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Shalom brother AryehYehudah,
Great reply! I agree that once the people of Israel and Serbia throw out their traitorous leftist leaders and put into power true conservative right-wing leaders, we Jews should forge a formal military alliance with righteous right-wing Serbs and destroy our common Islamofascist and Nazi enemies.
I hope I don't offend my Serbian brothers and sisters here who look to Russia with [false delusions of] hope, but the fact of the matter is that Russia is still run by former communists and a criminal robber-baron monopoly-"capitalist" [i.e., Globalist] oligarchical elite, who over the last 18 years have done very little to help Serbia apart from engage in rhetoric and hollow, empty promises of military assistance. We have seen this terrible betrayal and stabbing of the Serbian people in the back by the Russian political elite time and time again over the last 18 years.
Russia could have smashed every NATO and EU attack against Serbia during the 1990's but deliberately chose not to do so. In fact Russia did the complete opposite by backing every pro-EU/NATO leftist,globalist, traitorous anti-American, anti-Serbian manuever by the Clinton administration. First, by abandoning the Serbian people to their fate in their darkest hour and most critical time of need in the months leading up to the expulsion of 500,000 Serbs from Croatia and Krajina in 1995. Secondly, during the 3 month NATO bombing of civilian areas in Kosovo-Metohija and Serbia from March to June 1999.
Since Vladimir Putin came to power in 2000, Russia has continued the Yeltsin-era communist policies: instead of supplying Serbia with the most sophisticated anti-aircraft and surface to surface weapons so Serbia can defend herself, Putin's regime supplies communist Venezuela and Islamofascist Iran with these high-tech weapons instead!
This is a terrible ongoing betrayal of their blood brother Slavic Serbian Orthodox Christian kin which I hope the righteous Serbs here on JTF can agree with me is totally unacceptable behavior by the Russian government. This is NOT the way a true blood-brother ally and friend would behave towards a "little sister" like Serbia in her time of greatest need when she is threatened with annihilation by the Albanian and Bosnian muslim savage beasts in Kosovo-Metohija and Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as by the Croat Ustasha Nazi beasts in Croatia and occupied Krajina.
I wrote elsewhere on another thread:
If Serbs truly wish to regain their freedom and their sacred religious and cultural heartland they must be prepared to fight and die for it. History has proven time and again that freedom doesn't come cheap. If the EU threatens the Serbs with economic sanctions (the way Bush Snr did in 1992 via the UN) or if the EU threatens a military attack against Serbia via NATO, the Serbs should immediately threaten to annihilate all of the Albanian muslims in Kosovo and all of the Bosnian muslims in Bosnia.
If Washington decides to again betray the Serbs - the way Washington did during the 1990's under those two swines Bill and Hillary Clinton - and back the fascist-socialist EU in any kind of blackmail by making Clinton-esque economic or military threats against the Serbs (a la March,1999) for daring to reclaim their Serbian dignity, honor and national sovereignty - then Serbia should immediately launch a blitzkrieg style military campaign to expel all EU/NATO troops, retake all of Kosovo-Metohija and expel all the Albanian muslims and Bosnian muslims from Serb-land once and for all.
Yes, this will entail many civilian and military deaths but this is the only way to deal with muslim Nazi scum who commit beheadings of "infidels" for fun.
After kicking out the traitorous, evil pro-EU regime of Boris Tadic [who recently said that "Serbs should forget the Holocaust in WW2 Ustasha Croatia"], Serbia should build fast breeder nuclear reactors and produce several hundred nuclear warheads with sophisticated intercontinental or at least intermediate range ballistic missile delivery systems capable of defeating any kind of anti-missile defense system that the Croats, Albanian and Bosnian muslims could possibly obtain from any source. That way, in the event of a large scale regional or European war, the Serbs would not have to fear a multiple attack by the Ustasha Croats, Bosnian and Albanian Islamofascists on several fronts as happened during the Holocaust from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars of the 1990's.
Our experiences as Jews since the founding of the Holy Jewish homeland of Eretz Yisrael in 1948, show us that the only thing these muslim savage beasts understand and respect is OVERWHELMING MILITARY FORCE.
Likewise, our allies - the righteous Gentile Serbs inside and outside Serbia's borders - must also realize, from their bitter experiences during the Holocaust in Croatia and Bosnia from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars waged against Serbs during the 1990's [eg the mass beheadings,throat cutting and bodily dismemberment of Serbian men,women and children in Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia], that the only thing these murderous Croat Ustasha, Albanian KLA and Bosnian SDA muslim Nazi beasts understand and respect is sheer OVERWHELMING BRUTE FORCE. If the chips are down and worse comes to worst in a major European or World War, then clearly survival instincts of self-defense demand that in order to prevent another repeat of the 1941-1945 Holocaust of Jews and Serbs we need to use OVERWHELMING BRUTE FORCE in the form of Nuclear annihilation of these murderous savage Nazi beasts in a pre-emptive strike against their bases of operation, BEFORE these savage beasts try to annihilate us - Jews and Serbs - with the very same type of weapons. A reminder of what awaits us if Israel, America and Serbia fail to act against these beasts before it is too late:
Shalom Joshua,
You really said it all Joshua!!! Yes, Russia with its false promises and hidden agenda will use and exploit the poor Serbians in their time of dire need. Jews and Serbians must unite and we must stay away from the oligarchs who are trying to manipulate us so they can carry out their heinous crimes and try to cripple the spirits of G-d's people. Well, you said so much , I cannot even comment much.. What you wrote here is a deep explanation, beyond what I ccould have even done, of what I was telling Serbians on here from the beginning. Good work. Yes, I know I also reproached the Russian Orthodox church, but not because I think the people themselves are bad, but rather they work based on an aristocracy in connection with the government, promoting a hidden agenda and masking their atrocities with holy faces. There is something very evil and dark conjuring in the shadows and most people are blind to the fact. I was just watching how Jews were falling over and drooling when Barack Hussein said he really loves him. He really, really, really, really loves them, We Jews are gullible like some Serbians, soon as someone pats us on our back and says they are our friend, we just fall head over heels in love and respect to them. Little can we see how the same person sticks a knife in our back when we are most vulnerable or when we let our guard down. As far neo-nazism, it is a disease of not only uneducated whites; this disease has infiltrated to highest people of society; hence , 6,000,000 dead Jews later, we have seen its effects. This disease will not stop without a vaccine; the vaccine is conquest and destruction. A virus does not become good, it must be eradicated through means of intervention. When we fail to vaccinate our people from the diseases of nazism and Islam, the disease will attack us; therefore, our white blood cells do not lay dormant. Our own bodies know biologically are programmed to fight off an intruder; but us humans for some reason or programmed to give refuge and allow an intruder to devastate us. Ignorance and lack of knowledge are plaguging the world.
Shalom Dalmacija,
Ton down on your insults of me, calling me a nazi and such. Lets have a conversation with the admins if you need to result to such punative slanders. We shall see if I am truly a nazi. My relatives suffer great persecution from nazis and fascists, so if you want a fight with a Jewish man, calling him a nazi is the way to go. I, myself will avoid such a fight, as I am person with a rational mind and I don't need to resort to engaging in scuffles with irrational people. I was presenting an important issue that many others seem to recognize and not ignore. You have made many comments on this site contrary to the well-being of both Jews, Americans and Serbian people. I respect Serbia needs our support greatly, but don't resort to making childish insults against me and making false claims of me being a nazi (which I am not) and you being a Jew (which you are not). Let me tell you, any country that allows neo nazis to do nazi salutes in the open at your ancient holy sites is a country I condemn. This is a country that I worry about, so since your country allows it, I will speak out against it. I do respect that your country and people, but why attack me. If Neo-Nazis were doing nazi salutes at Jewish synagogues in Israel, I would also present the cause there as well. I am not biased at all; you would be amazed how you misinterpret me.
I did say I am learning more about Serbia. When I originally made comments denouncing its church and people, I knew nothing of your country or church. You want to go study statistics, you will see Jews are treated like dogs in 90% of Eastern European countries and much of the foul treatment Jews face is sponsored by the local churches, including Catholic and Orthodox. However, Orthodox are more traditional and traditions are not always good . Once again, I gave great respect to Serbian Orthodox church for not partaking in the crimes that other Orthodox churches have done against Jews in Eastern EUrope. Let me start by giving my respect to your Orthodox church in Serbia and I would be glad to even come visit one of your churches and meet your priests. I have visited several churches. Yes, I even attempted to visit Russian Orthodox Church, but I did not pursue as I was insulted for wearing Star of David necklace and was told my relatives were Christ killers. I know there is good and bad people all over the world. It was very wrong for me to judge every Orthodox Church the same, I apologize for that.
Now, I hope people can see the truth in what I was writing, and the Serbians, like Dalmacija, should not feel so superior as to beat down any form of concern or criticism of what is happening in their country. Us Jews constantly beat down and criticize Israel; since you are on a Jewish site and sponsored and respected, I think you would open to such, as well.
Shalom
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AryehYehudah,
Do not say that I was calling you a Nazi or a National Socialist.
I was only saying that your behavior in the past towards the Orthodox Church – in general – and Orthodoxy was a Nazi way of behaving.
That does not automatically say that you are a 100% convinced Nazi.
Neither does this mean that you have fascist intentions also towards other people. I said that your behavior towards Orthodoxy and the Orthodoxy countries was a Nazi oriented behavior.
After everything what you have said in the past it is very disrespectful to open a topic about “Serbian” Nazis. You are not the right person to open such a topic.
This is pure disrespectful!
You come to an Serbian subforum and start to attack Orthodox Churches and nations and then you open this kind of topic. You have appologized to us(than you for that), but that does not justify to open such a topic after all you have done.
You do not know what it means being a Serb.
You should first inform your self about Serbs, Serbian history and tradition – before you start like this.
A Serbs is somebody who belongs to the Serbian Orthodox Church.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is very clarify about this one.
The Serbian nationality is only for those who are Orthodox believers.
All others who have accepted Roman Catholicism or Islam, have also lost their Serbian nationality as well as their religion....
Look some Serbs do not agree with this policy. They claim that even if a Serb decides, on purpose or under certain circumstances, leave Orthodoxy he must not lose also his nationality. Otherwise, he will automatically become a Croat or something else.
That’s also a good point.
But I agree with the statement of the Serbian Orthodox church.
There is no such thing as a non Orthodox Serb. You are only a Serb if you are Orthodox.
That means that Orthodoxy has far more value than the Serbian nationality.
With out Orthodoxy we are not Serbs anymore.
Communism and Nazism are theories which were established in the West – by Western ideologists. These theories both condemn Orthodoxy. There were even serious atrocities committed against Serbian and Russian people in the name of these theories. Nazism and communism are an Excuse to justify the prosecution against Orthodox people for example.
There is no such think as a Serbian Nazi or communist.
These people are only Serbs by name – on paper. There is nothing Serbian about them.
We simply, consider these people as fallen Serbs. The same with Croats and Bosnians. They have both accepted the religion of our conquerors – since that moment they have stopped being Serbian. But we Orthodox Serbs are still willing to give them a chance to return to their original faith and to restore the fault of their fore fathers.
Croats and Bosnians can not be converted into Orthodoxy, they can only return to Orthodoxy - like Emir Kosturica (a former Muslim Serb (Bosnian)) is saying.
You can not be a Nazi and a Serb together.
You can not serve G-d and mammon in the same time.
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AryehYehudah,
Do not say that I was calling you a Nazi or a National Socialist.
I was only saying that your behavior in the past towards the Orthodox Church – in general – and Orthodoxy was a Nazi way of behaving.
That does not automatically say that you are a 100% convinced Nazi.
Neither does this mean that you have fascist intentions also towards other people. I said that your behavior towards Orthodoxy and the Orthodoxy countries was a Nazi oriented behavior.
After everything what you have said in the past it is very disrespectful to open a topic about “Serbian” Nazis. You are not the right person to open such a topic.
This is pure disrespectful!
You come to an Serbian subforum and start to attack Orthodox Churches and nations and then you open this kind of topic. You have appologized to us(than you for that), but that does not justify to open such a topic after all you have done.
You do not know what it means being a Serb.
You should first inform your self about Serbs, Serbian history and tradition – before you start like this.
A Serbs is somebody who belongs to the Serbian Orthodox Church.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is very clarify about this one.
The Serbian nationality is only for those who are Orthodox believers.
All others who have accepted Roman Catholicism or Islam, have also lost their Serbian nationality as well their religion....
Look some Serbs do not agree with this policy. They claim that even if a Serb decides, on purpose or under certain circumstances, leave Orthodoxy he must not lose also his nationality. Otherwise, he will automatically become a Croat or something else.
That’s also a good point.
But I agree with the statement of the Serbian Orthodox church.
There is no such thing as a non Orthodox Serb. You are only a Serb if you are Orthodox.
That means that Orthodoxy has far more value than the Serbian nationality.
With out Orthodoxy we are not Serbs anymore.
Communism and Nazism are theories which were established in the West – by Western ideologists. These theories both condemn Orthodoxy. There were even serious atrocities committed against Serbian and Russian people in the name of these theories. Nazism and communism are an Excuse to justify the prosecution against Orthodox people for example.
There is no such think as a Serbian Nazi or communist.
These people are only Serbs by name – on paper. There is nothing Serbian about them.
We simply, consider these people as fallen Serbs. The same with Croats and Bosnians. They have both accepted the religion of our conquerors – since that moment they have stopped being Serbian. But we Orthodox Serbs are still willing to give them a chance to return to their original faith and to restore the fault of their fore fathers.
Croats and Bosnians can not be converted into Orthodoxy, they can only return to Orthodoxy - like Emir Kosturica (a former Muslim Serb (Bosnian)) is saying.
You can not be a Nazi and a Serb together.
You can not serve G-d and mammon in the same time.
Shalom brother Dalmacija,
you are to be commended for such a thoughtful, courteous, and deeply informative response to brother AryehYehudah - clarifying what you were saying in your previous reply. I know I may almost sound like a JTF moderator when I say this: I am very, very proud of the maturity, courtesy and deep respect both of you have shown to each other on the JTF forum today in explaining each other's view points. I am immensely proud of both of you!
Mazal Tov!!
:clap: ;)
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You want to go study statistics, you will see Jews are treated like dogs in 90% of Eastern European countries and much of the foul treatment Jews face is sponsored by the local churches, including Catholic and Orthodox.
Who has written these statistics?
Do you really believe that local Orthodox churches participated in the prosecution against Jews in Russia? I have never heard such a think and I do not think that all Jews will agree with this. To claim that the authorities of Tsarist Russia had anti Semitic laws or propaganda is not normal and in struggle with historical facts.
Anti Semitism = to prosecute Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.
Do you really think that the authorities of Tsarist Russia went door to door to clloect Jewish people in order to prosecute them? Thats rudiculous man!
Tsarist Russia was an Orthodox state whose foundation was based on Orthodox laws.
In Orthodoxy many Jewish prophets of the oldd Testament were ethnically Jews.
To say that Orthodoxy hates Jews or has a problem with Jews is rediculous and wrong.
In contradcition to you, we Orthodox people do not hate other people.
We have no problems with Muslims, Jews or Catholcis or with other non Orthodox people. Like real Christians we consider all people as creations of G-d and our brothers by Adam.
Let me start by giving my respect to your Orthodox church in Serbia and I would be glad to even come visit one of your churches and meet your priests. I have visited several churches.
You can talk to me I am also an Orthodox Serb.
Of course you are welcome in Serbian Church no problem.
We have very good experiences with Jews who visit our Churches...
Yes, I even attempted to visit Russian Orthodox Church, but I did not pursue as I was insulted for wearing Star of David necklace and was told my relatives were Christ killers.
Come brother,
If I went to a synagogue wearing a big Orthodox cross.... What kind of impression would I leave? What will they say to me. They will also say something about the sign of my religion. And I will give them right. You must know where you can wear those sings and where not...
Use your mind brother.... In Churches you have people and people sometimes say ridiculous thinks... Do not take it to personally!
Why were you linking these insults to the Orthodox teachings?
Do I complain about the insults which were addressed to some Orthodox priests in Jerusalem by certain people over there?
Do you hear me complain about that?
Of course not... Where you have people you always have trouble!
I know there is good and bad people all over the world. It was very wrong for me to judge every Orthodox Church the same, I apologize for that.
Oke thank you... I appreciate this.
-
Who has written these statistics?
Do you really believe that local Orthodox churches participated in the prosecution against Jews in Russia? I have never heard such a think and I do not think that all Jews will agree with this. To claim that the authorities of Tsarist Russia had anti Semitic laws or propaganda is not normal and in struggle with historical facts.
Anti Semitism = to prosecute Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.
Do you really think that the authorities of Tsarist Russia went door to door to clloect Jewish people in order to prosecute them? Thats rudiculous man!
No not ridiculous, absolutely did happen, read your history book!
How would you know are you a Jew? Just like I don't know what it means to be a Serb, you do not know what it means to be a Jew. How do you know how we were treated in Russia? While your people were living peaceful life in your slavic nations, attending church, socializing in your cities, we were having our villages burned, women raped, even children butchered in the name of the Orthodox church of Russsia. Did you think any Jews were allowed in Moscow or Kiev? I bet there was plenty of Serbas allowed to live there. We were the "Christ Killers"! What other institution but a church could coin the term, "Christ Killer". I don't think you know so much of Jewish history in Eastern EUrope, it shows by the some of your ignorant statments you make about us. YOu know plenty about Serbian history and suffering of Serbs in Europe; that I definately see. Do the Jews on the website a favor and stop bashing us when we question intentions of Serbs and be open to conversation like the other Serbians I have talked to who were more respectable and gave me better answer than your insults of me. I am educating myself about Serbia, so stop attacking me when I first came onto the site and new very little of your people. Go do us Jews a favor and study some about the oppression of our people in eastern Europe. Really, I don't know why people here don't care when you say such statements that us Jews never suffered at the hands of Orthodox Christians or in Eastern Europe is outrageous. You openly criticize Catholics for their atrocities they committed against Jews, you think Orthodox did not participate? We were brutalized! Wake up Dalamacija and smell the truth. Why was Serbia bombed? Because people were profoundly ignorant; rejecting to hear the truth of the situation. Many would cry day and night for the Albanians, yet refuse to look at the history and suffering of Serbs. You are doing the same to us Jews by denying our history in favor of your religious comrades.
Come brother,
If I went to a synagogue wearing a big Orthodox cross.... What kind of impression would I leave? What will they say to me. They will also say something about the sign of my religion. And I will give them right. You must know where you can wear those sings and where not...
Good point, yet Russia has some very large churches in Israel with its giant crosses reaching out to heaven. Many Orthodox prietss go to Western Wall with crosses exposed. I suppose we are reather accepting, maybe we shouldnot be. Nonetheless, the Star of David was a small necklace, not a giant huge star of David on my head. Nobody could see it. Its not like an Orthodox priest who has a giant cross hanging from his neck. However, since we ould respect him as a religious elder and if he walked into a synaogogue to observe, I do no think they would force him to hide his religious emblems. Then again, it depends on synagogue to synagogue. You misunderstand me anyhow. They did not want me to hide my Star for the church, NO! They said my Star of David was evil and that I should permanently remove it! I would have no problem removing it for a church meeting if it bothered them there. But they were ridiculing my faith, which I hate! If a Christian wears a cross and it brings him closer to G-d, I will not insult him and call him a wood worshipper or an idol worshipper. SOme Jews do that and we should stop them for their bad behavior.
Use your mind brother.... In Churches you have people and people sometimes say ridiculous thinks... Do not take it to personally!
Why were you linking these insults to the Orthodox teachings?
Do I complain about the insults which were addressed to some Orthodox priests in Jerusalem by certain people over there?
Do you hear me complain about that?
Of course not... Where you have people you always have trouble!
Well, sad to say many Orthodox priests have been known to also send insults out to the Jewish people even in their own land! Yes, I reject any hatred towards any people of faith. However, Russian priests live very nicely with huge amount of land that is suppose to be for Jews. Many of them openly welcome Palestinainas and have voiced for Palestinain rights. They even threw out the head of the Greek Orthodox Church from Israel. He rebuilt his church in West Bank with his new "Palestinia-n" friends. He was calling for the destruction of Israel and claim it was Arab land, Jews did not belong there. That was real nice that Israel help fund his church and gave him a nice place to stay and look how he repaid us.
Tsarist Russia was an Orthodox state whose foundation was based on Orthodox laws.
In Orthodoxy many Jewish prophets of the oldd Testament were ethnically Jews.
To say that Orthodoxy hates Jews or has a problem with Jews is rediculous and wrong.
Yes, in Bible, Jews are looked on highly. Well, that is because Jews (or people of Hebraic ancestory) wrote most of the bible, including New T-estament. However, as you know Orthodox churches are not all same. Like Catholics, many believe the bible is just one book of many. Many Christians in Russia did not care about that the all the prophets were Israelites, even Jesus was born from the tribe of Judah. They just focused on the poorly translated text that spoke of a group of rogue Pharisees persecuted and murdered their G-d. They don't read the bible the way it is written. Even Hitler made some claim about Jesus being a Celtic who was oppresed by evil Jewish slave masters. I know what is written in the bible, that doesn't mean people interpret it that way. The Catholics in Spain read the bible too and acknowledge all the prophets were ethnic Israelites. Yet, it did not stop the Spanish INquisition. Nor did it stop the slaughter of the JEws in the Crusades, who were viewed as heretics and, of course, "Christ Killers". Hate to break the news, but many "FALSE" CHristians were responsible for death of millions of Jews.
Yes you did call me a nazi, go read above. You got some nerve too.. This is a Jewish website (at least I think it is) and I know you think its a Serbian website, but you forget this website main cause is to help save Jews and defend their own people, not Serbians. You do have Serbian websites. I bet if I as a Jew, would go onto a Serbian site and say some of the things about Serbs you say to me, I would not last long. Once again, many of us Jews are self-hating and we spoil our allies. Many of our allies take advantage of us, as you can see. A good example, George Wahabi Bush, our old ally, and now the one who is preaching for us to give Golan to the Syrian Nazis.
YOu attack me from what I said in the past. Perhaps I should attack some of your statements defending the Tzar, Chavez, Castro, Ahmedinejab, and, of course, Putin. I do not like scuffling with you.. However, if I see pictures of neo-nazis do nazi salute with a serbian flag hanging from your Orthodox churches, your damn right I will post it on a Jewish website and question you about it. DOn't behave like a fascist and try to force me to silence myself. Please, don't go making orders about who is qualified to be concerned about nazism in Serbia and who is not. I am a Jew, I am just as qualified as you to be concerned about this and you should remember that. I don't see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Serbs, but I see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Jews and most of the world's anger is against Jews, not Serbians. YOu have never been the world's scapegoat, my people have. Also, these neo-nazi, blood and honor people, are trying to promote a teaching that Jews were responsible for the bombings in Kosovo. I will ask Serbs to speak about it and if you refuse you are just breeding the censorship and ignorance which is how anti-semitism spawns and proliferates amongst the European people. If Jews are waving Anti-Serbian flags or salutes in Yerushalayim, I will post it on here too!
DO ME A FAVOR: Can you visit this website: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.com I WILL SEND YOU THIS LINK AS A PERSONAL MESSAGE. I would like you to read this website of the history of our people. Please study it. Before you make any more rebukes against me and painting a fantasy picture of the nice life us Jews had in Eastern Europe; go read the facts, which your russian-inspired history books will not tell you. Hear the history of the Jews, from a Jewish perspective.
The History of Jews in Russia and relation of Church and Government. (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html
The History of Jews in Ukraine (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/ukraine.html
The History of Jews in Belarus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Belarus.html
The History of Jews in Moldova
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/moldova.html
The History of Jews in Romania
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/romania.html
The History of Jews in Bulgaria
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/bulgaria.html
The History of Jews in Greece
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Greece.html
Genocide of Jews and Serbians in Kosovo, by Muslim Albanians and their Nazi Allies
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Kosovo.html
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AryehYehudah,
Thanks for the information.
I am reading the sources.
Let me remind you that you are proving to me information which is written by Western institutions.
I will contact some Russians and arrange information from the Russian point of view reagarding this subject.
-
Guys stop it already please.
-
They will stop! I know that!
-
Who has written these statistics?
Do you really believe that local Orthodox churches participated in the prosecution against Jews in Russia? I have never heard such a think and I do not think that all Jews will agree with this. To claim that the authorities of Tsarist Russia had anti Semitic laws or propaganda is not normal and in struggle with historical facts.
Anti Semitism = to prosecute Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.
Do you really think that the authorities of Tsarist Russia went door to door to clloect Jewish people in order to prosecute them? Thats rudiculous man!
No not ridiculous, absolutely did happen, read your history book!
How would you know are you a Jew? Just like I don't know what it means to be a Serb, you do not know what it means to be a Jew. How do you know how we were treated in Russia? While your people were living peaceful life in your slavic nations, attending church, socializing in your cities, we were having our villages burned, women raped, even children butchered in the name of the Orthodox church of Russsia. Did you think any Jews were allowed in Moscow or Kiev? I bet there was plenty of Serbas allowed to live there. We were the "Christ Killers"! What other institution but a church could coin the term, "Christ Killer". I don't think you know so much of Jewish history in Eastern EUrope, it shows by the some of your ignorant statments you make about us. YOu know plenty about Serbian history and suffering of Serbs in Europe; that I definately see. Do the Jews on the website a favor and stop bashing us when we question intentions of Serbs and be open to conversation like the other Serbians I have talked to who were more respectable and gave me better answer than your insults of me. I am educating myself about Serbia, so stop attacking me when I first came onto the site and new very little of your people. Go do us Jews a favor and study some about the oppression of our people in eastern Europe. Really, I don't know why people here don't care when you say such statements that us Jews never suffered at the hands of Orthodox Christians or in Eastern Europe is outrageous. You openly criticize Catholics for their atrocities they committed against Jews, you think Orthodox did not participate? We were brutalized! Wake up Dalamacija and smell the truth. Why was Serbia bombed? Because people were profoundly ignorant; rejecting to hear the truth of the situation. Many would cry day and night for the Albanians, yet refuse to look at the history and suffering of Serbs. You are doing the same to us Jews by denying our history in favor of your religious comrades.
Come brother,
If I went to a synagogue wearing a big Orthodox cross.... What kind of impression would I leave? What will they say to me. They will also say something about the sign of my religion. And I will give them right. You must know where you can wear those sings and where not...
Good point, yet Russia has some very large churches in Israel with its giant crosses reaching out to heaven. Many Orthodox prietss go to Western Wall with crosses exposed. I suppose we are reather accepting, maybe we shouldnot be. Nonetheless, the Star of David was a small necklace, not a giant huge star of David on my head. Nobody could see it. Its not like an Orthodox priest who has a giant cross hanging from his neck. However, since we ould respect him as a religious elder and if he walked into a synaogogue to observe, I do no think they would force him to hide his religious emblems. Then again, it depends on synagogue to synagogue. You misunderstand me anyhow. They did not want me to hide my Star for the church, NO! They said my Star of David was evil and that I should permanently remove it! I would have no problem removing it for a church meeting if it bothered them there. But they were ridiculing my faith, which I hate! If a Christian wears a cross and it brings him closer to G-d, I will not insult him and call him a wood worshipper or an idol worshipper. SOme Jews do that and we should stop them for their bad behavior.
Use your mind brother.... In Churches you have people and people sometimes say ridiculous thinks... Do not take it to personally!
Why were you linking these insults to the Orthodox teachings?
Do I complain about the insults which were addressed to some Orthodox priests in Jerusalem by certain people over there?
Do you hear me complain about that?
Of course not... Where you have people you always have trouble!
Well, sad to say many Orthodox priests have been known to also send insults out to the Jewish people even in their own land! Yes, I reject any hatred towards any people of faith. However, Russian priests live very nicely with huge amount of land that is suppose to be for Jews. Many of them openly welcome Palestinainas and have voiced for Palestinain rights. They even threw out the head of the Greek Orthodox Church from Israel. He rebuilt his church in West Bank with his new "Palestinia-n" friends. He was calling for the destruction of Israel and claim it was Arab land, Jews did not belong there. That was real nice that Israel help fund his church and gave him a nice place to stay and look how he repaid us.
Tsarist Russia was an Orthodox state whose foundation was based on Orthodox laws.
In Orthodoxy many Jewish prophets of the oldd Testament were ethnically Jews.
To say that Orthodoxy hates Jews or has a problem with Jews is rediculous and wrong.
Yes, in Bible, Jews are looked on highly. Well, that is because Jews (or people of Hebraic ancestory) wrote most of the bible, including New T-estament. However, as you know Orthodox churches are not all same. Like Catholics, many believe the bible is just one book of many. Many Christians in Russia did not care about that the all the prophets were Israelites, even Jesus was born from the tribe of Judah. They just focused on the poorly translated text that spoke of a group of rogue Pharisees persecuted and murdered their G-d. They don't read the bible the way it is written. Even Hitler made some claim about Jesus being a Celtic who was oppresed by evil Jewish slave masters. I know what is written in the bible, that doesn't mean people interpret it that way. The Catholics in Spain read the bible too and acknowledge all the prophets were ethnic Israelites. Yet, it did not stop the Spanish INquisition. Nor did it stop the slaughter of the JEws in the Crusades, who were viewed as heretics and, of course, "Christ Killers". Hate to break the news, but many "FALSE" CHristians were responsible for death of millions of Jews.
Yes you did call me a nazi, go read above. You got some nerve too.. This is a Jewish website (at least I think it is) and I know you think its a Serbian website, but you forget this website main cause is to help save Jews and defend their own people, not Serbians. You do have Serbian websites. I bet if I as a Jew, would go onto a Serbian site and say some of the things about Serbs you say to me, I would not last long. Once again, many of us Jews are self-hating and we spoil our allies. Many of our allies take advantage of us, as you can see. A good example, George Wahabi Bush, our old ally, and now the one who is preaching for us to give Golan to the Syrian Nazis.
YOu attack me from what I said in the past. Perhaps I should attack some of your statements defending the Tzar, Chavez, Castro, Ahmedinejab, and, of course, Putin. I do not like scuffling with you.. However, if I see pictures of neo-nazis do nazi salute with a serbian flag hanging from your Orthodox churches, your damn right I will post it on a Jewish website and question you about it. DOn't behave like a fascist and try to force me to silence myself. Please, don't go making orders about who is qualified to be concerned about nazism in Serbia and who is not. I am a Jew, I am just as qualified than you to be concerned about this and you should remember that. I don't see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Serbs, but I see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Jews and most of the world's anger is against Jews, not Serbians. YOu have never been the world's scapegoat, my people have. Also, these neo-nazi, blood and honor people, are trying to promote a teaching that Jews were responsible for the bombings in Kosovo. I will ask Serbs to speak about it and if you refuse you are just breeding the censorship and ignorance which is how anti-semitism spawns and proliferates amongst the European people. If Jews are waving Anti-Serbian flags or salutes in Yerushalayim, I will post it on here too!
DO ME A FAVOR: Can you visit this website: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.com I WILL SEND YOU THIS LINK AS A PERSONAL MESSAGE. I would like you to read this website of the history of our people. Please study it. Before you make any more rebukes against me and painting a fantasy picture of the nice life us Jews had in Eastern Europe; go read the facts, which your russian-inspired history books will not tell you. Here the history of the Jews, from a Jewish perspective.
The History of Jews in Russia and relation of Church and Government. (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html
The History of Jews in Ukraine (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/ukraine.html
The History of Jews in Belarus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Belarus.html
The History of Jews in Moldova
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/moldova.html
The History of Jews in Romania
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/romania.html
The History of Jews in Bulgaria
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/bulgaria.html
The History of Jews in Greece
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Greece.html
Genocide of Jews and Serbians in Kosovo, by Muslim Albanians and their Nazi Allies
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Kosovo.html
Shalom everyone,
What an awesome reply, brother AryehYehudah!
This is why I am so proud to be a member of JTF and a contributor to this forum. Like I said earlier, I really admire the way brother AryehYehudah and Dalmacija are being civil, courteous, and respecting each other in this debate. None of us can ever stop learning and it is fantastic that we can see a Jew and a Serb communicate ideas in a mutually respectful and mutually beneficial way on this forum.
I think what has come out clearly in this debate is that - as brother AryehYehudah has already stated - not all Orthodox countries are the same, just as not all Roman Catholic countries are the same [case in point - Ustasha Nazi Croatia is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic].There are of course many,many good, decent and righteous Orthodox Chrsitians and Roman Catholics who respect the Jews and Israel, just as there are some bad Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics who hate the Jews and Israel.
The fact of the matter is that the Serbian Orthodox church and Serbia [and historically Serbian lands in Bosnia, Krajina and Croatia] respect the Jews as proven throughout history - especially Serbian Orthodox Christian believers' heroic actions during the Shoah [Holocaust]. Interestingly enough the Serbian people themselves throughout modern history have always referred to Jews in Serbia as "brother and sister Serbs of the Jewish Mosaic faith."
I think this explains the actions of the overwhelming majority of Serbs during World War 2 in defying Hitler when Nazism and Fascism appeared unstoppable, refusing European antisemitism and risking their own lives in hiding and saving many thousands of Jews in Serbia and elsewhere in Yugoslavia during the Holocaust.
As brother AryehYehudah has already pointed out, he is still learning much about the history of Serbs, Serbia and her Serbian Orthodox Christian church just as Dalmacija is also learning about the history of Jews in Russia, Ukraine and other Orthodox countries in Eastern Europe.
At the risk of sounding like a JTF moderator again, I want to thank brother AryehYehudah and brother Dalmacija once again for keeping the debate civil and mutually respectful so that all of us here can learn something new about the history of the Jewish and Serbian people in Europe.
Mazal Tov!
:clap: ;)
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The History of Jews in Russia and relation of Church and Government. (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html
The History of Jews in Ukraine (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/ukraine.html
The History of Jews in Belarus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Belarus.html
The History of Jews in Moldova
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/moldova.html
The History of Jews in Romania
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/romania.html
The History of Jews in Bulgaria
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/bulgaria.html
The History of Jews in Greece
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Greece.html
Genocide of Jews and Serbians in Kosovo, by Muslim Albanians and their Nazi Allies
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Kosovo.html
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exaple - this is what your sources are writing:
Because of blatant Serbian anti-Semitism, the Jewish population in the area decreased each year. In 1912, 5,000 Jews remained in Serbia.
This source talks about:
BLATANT SERBIAN ANTI-SEMITISM ? ? ? ?
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/serbia.html (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/serbia.html)
liars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.,............
This anti Orthodox propaganda does not only include false propaganda against Orthodox Tsarist Russia but also against Orthodox Serbia...
I am reading this side and this side is full of anti- Serbian and anti Orthodox propaganda...
This site is declaring that Milos Obrenovic and other Serbian royal leaders were anti Semites? Pure anti Orthodox and Western propaganda....
If you believe this kind of information than you have really lost every sence for reality..
Serbia was one of the most tolerant countries to the Jews?
Is this what we deserve?
What a shame!
Do not forgot that many Jewish US lobbysts had lobbied for the NATO bombing campaign against Serbia. Even during the civil wars in Croatia and Bosnia Jews of influence supported the Croatian Muslim agression against Serbia.
I think that these Jewish lobbysts like Madeline Albight and many others are far more dangerous to the Serbs, than the so called Serbian Nazis are to the Jews!
AryehYehudah
I will confront you with video materials of two US Jewish gentlemans who, during a meeting, in Kosovo had promised to the Albanian majority in 1988 that they will have their own sovereignty.
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OK, you are crying that the Jewish Virtual Library is a lying website. I never read what they wrote about Serbia. I question how tolerant Serbians were to Jews over 1000s of years. All of Europe hated us and I don't see how Serbians, being apart of Orthodox Christian empire, tolerated the Jews in their land, when every other country banned us and treated as inferior. I really am not aware of your history over 1000 years. I know the Jews lived well in Kosovo with their Serbian counterparts.
For you to say this is propaganda against Tsarist Russia is bullsh*t .. I will go and research and post other links about the history of Jews in Tsarist Russia. The piece of sh*t the Tsar murderd many of my relatives and had us fleeing for our lives. My grandmother watched women in her village raped by the Tsar's soldiers. We had to flee Russia and its Orthodox chuch as they were massacring us. Many Jews joined the Red Army and became Communist because the Christians were brutalizing them and treating them like dogs. We were being forced to assimilate as Christians and give up our culture and identity or face persecution or death. Had your slavic brothers not have massacred us and treated us so bad, there would not be so many left-wing Jews like ALbright today. You can thank yourself for this. However, the Communists later turned on Jews and forced them also to leave their religion behind. Doesn't seem like we ever had any tolerance or peace in our existence. You Serbians never suffered so much over the years. We have not had a country or home for 1000s of years. As for how Serbia treated the Jews 1000 years ago, that is debatable. Anti-semtism was rampant in every country in Europe in ancient times. How can you verify the treatment of Jews over 1000 years ago in your country? Are you telling me Jews were not banned in Serbia from being traders back in those times? Can you find me non-Serbian or non-Russian references backing up this claim? I think, however, Jews have lived better in Serbia and Kosovo in recent years, especially during WWII, than in other countries in EUrope.
I suggest you watch the movie called Fiddler on the Roof, for some basic education. You can watch as the Orthodox Church closes its eyes when the Russians go and burn the village, ransack our synagogue. Of course the movie paints a much prettier picture than the truth. DUring the pogroms, they would murder men women and children and even rape our women. My mother has some goyish Russian features thanks to so-called Christian soldiers using the women as sex slaves. The Jew is known in RUssia to this day as "Christ Killer". Are you telling me the Church had nothing to do with this term? DOn't worry Dalmacija, there is plenty of sources beyond Jewish Virtual Libray that talks about the oppressive policies of Tsarist Russia against Jews. You are fighting a losing battle on JTF to deny our suffering in Tsarist RUssia; its really silly, actually. In my opinion, and Jews who denies the suffering we had in Tsarist Russia or in any other European nation, is a "Self-Hating Jew". That type of Jew deserves what is coming to him. Jewish Virtual Library are composed by various authors, some may be a bit biased in views; nonetheless, many Jewish People find it good source of information.
You saying that the people in Russia , its government and church did not sponsor pogroms? Perhaps I will just say that USA and Albanians never did any wrong to Serbia. That is just Serbian propaganda!
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Here, I am posting from various sources about the treatment of Jews in Tsarist Russia. Dalmacija claims the JEws lived happy lives and were treated well under the Tsar's rules. I hope these history links will help disprove his ignorant statments. It is almos the equivalent of people saying there was No Holocaust. Holocaust and Pogrom Denial is a sickness, bred by people who wish to deny the wrongdoings to Jews for whatever reasons. I hope Dalmacija, you can read this; although I feel you just want to be right and me to be wrong. Please read some of these other links. I know a man as resourceful as you can have read about this, but I think you rae on purpose trying to deny the history to cover up any wrongdoings that your brethren can have done to us. You want to paint a fantasy picture of the glory of the Tsarist empire, that really never existed for us Jews; since we were the rejects and garbage of the Tsar's empire. He would throw Jews out of their homes and order they be executed whenever he felt in the mood.
We can thank your Russian brothers for writing the book, "PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION", which is read in every arab country to this day; a grave attack on the Jewish people.
As ridiculous as this might sound to us today, the Protocols were seized upon as "proof" that the world was dominated by Jews who were responsible for all of the world's problems.
Fans and proponents of the Protocols have included such anti-Semites as: Henry Ford, the founder of Ford Motor Company; Adolf Hitler, as might be expected; Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser; and King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, among others.
These pogroms were seldom spontaneous, though incitement by Christian clergy around the Christian holidays could drive the masses into a frenzy. However, in Czarist Russia, most of the pogroms were government organized. Why would the Czarist government organize mobs to target Jews? Because Jews were the classic scapegoats for the economic problems of Russia (and many other countries in history).
Writes Berel Wein in Triumph of Survival (p. 173) of the reign of Alexander III:
"Expulsions, deportations, arrests, and beatings became the daily lot of the Jews, not only of their lower class, but even of the middle class and the Jewish intelligentsia. The government of Alexander III waged a campaign of war against its Jewish inhabitants ... The Jews were driven and hounded, and emigration appeared to be the only escape from the terrible tyranny of the Romanovs."
The Kishinev pogrom happened when there was a lot of tension in Russia (two years before the first, unsuccessful revolution). Wanting to dispel the tension, the Czarist government once again organized a pogrom against the Jews.
Strange as it may sound, the Kishinev pogrom received a lot of international attention. This was because by this time pogroms were something that the "enlightened" Western World no longer found acceptable. (If only they knew what they themselves would do to the Jews 40 years later!)
Between 1903 and 1907 was a period of great internal unrest in Russia. Nicholas's incompetence coupled with excessive taxation and the humiliating defeat of Russia during the Russo-Japanese War (1904-05) let to the first Russian Revolution in 1905 which led to a few short-lived reforms in the government. This period also proved disastrous for the Jewish community there were 284 pogroms with over 50,000 casualties. The level of violence was unbelievable.
There was only so much of this kind of thing that people could take. The Jewish community was being devastated and people were looking for a way out. Jews were running out of the shtetls and joining all of the anarchist, communist, socialist, bundist movements that they could find in the hopes that they would be able to change the situation in Russia. Jews have been history's great idealists and during this time they were desperate to find some way of making things better. (We will cover their activism when we discuss the events surrounding World War I.)
America is refuge to Jews from Evil Russian Empire that Oppressed Us. My grandparents are included in the exodus of people who came to USA. I do have my great grandfather's and my grandmother's records from Ellis Island. We have recently discovered them.
We might recall (from Part 23) when the Jews were exile by the Babylonians, the exile had happened in two stages. First the Babylonians took away 10,000 of the best and the brightest, and that turned out to be a blessing in disguise because when the Jews arrive in Babylon, there is a Jewish infrastructure in place. Yeshivas had been established, synagogues built, there was a kosher butcher and a mikveh. Jewish life could continue and as a result we saw hardly any assimilation during the Babylonian exile.
However, when the poor Jews of Russia arrived en masse in America at the end of the 19th century -- passing through the famous Ellis Island -- they found no Jewish infrastructure in place. The Jews who had preceded them in the migration of the 1830s were German Jews (about 280,000 of them). These German Jews -- who resented the poorer Russian Jews -- were either Reform, (and did not believe that the Torah was G-d-given nor in any specific G-d-given law that Jews had to keep) or they were secular Jews who totally eschewed Jewish tradition. Thus, the poor Russian Jews stepped into the Golden Land of Assimilation as we shall see in the next installment.
Undoubtedly the Russian church can be criticised for its total submission to the State in the Synodical period (after the abolition of the Patriarchage in the early eighteenth century), for its inability to express an independent opinion and for its failure to demonstrate love for one's neighbour and defence of the persecuted in accordance with the basic teachings of the Gospel: unlike the Western church, the Russian Orthodox Church took no steps to protect the Jews. But once again we must emphasise that unlike the Western churches, antisemitic policies were not conducted in the name of the Russian Orthodox Church.
It does not follow, however, that the clerics and priests of the Russian Orthodox Church were not prone to antisemitic attitudes. The cruellest attacks on Jews can be found in Orthodox polemics, in the sermons and speeches of the most illustrious clerics and hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, from Iosif Volotsky to St John of Kronstadt. At the end of the nineteenth century the antisemitic views of Archbishop Nikon of Vologda, Hieromonk Iliodor (Trufanov), Archpriest Ioann Vostorgov were widely known. These individuals were not expressing an official church position on the Jewish question, which had simply not been formulated; they reflected the widely-held negative attitudes of the general population towards the Jews.
It is important to remember that an equal number of Russian Orthodox clerics, including senior hierarchs, openly defended persecuted Jews, at least from the second half of the nineteenth century. In Russia, perhaps more than in the West, hierarchs of the church and professors in the theological academies refuted the accusations that Jews conducted pogroms and ritual sacrifices and were organising a 'worldwide conspiracy', as they fought for the social rights of Jews (16). Soloviev, Bulgakov, Ilyin and other prominent Russian religious philosophers played an active role in this movement. However, neither the number of speeches by the Christian community, nor the impassioned nature of their appeals on behalf of the Jews, could alter the general hatred of Jews characteristic of the Russian population since medieval times. A corresponding attitude towards the Jews was reflected also in state and religious laws (17).
Given the duty of every Orthodox Christian to be guided by the teachings of the church embodied in Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition, then his/her attitudes towards Jews and Judaism must equally be governed by Holy Tradition, since in accordance with Orthodox teaching the true meaning of Holy Scripture is revealed exclusively through Holy Tradition. However, due to the particular objective social, religious and historical circumstances prevailing at that time, Holy Tradition dating from the period of the holy fathers is suffused with an overt antisemitic spirit. This mood was reflected both in the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils and in the works of the holy fathers, where Jews were called 'murderers of G-d' and 'a despised people'. Generation after generation of Christians were educated in the spirit of this 'teaching of contempt' (to use an expression coined by the French historian J. Isaac) in relation to Jews, which led to the most terrible persecutions of the Jews by Christian society over the last seventeen-hundred years.
As has already been noted, religious hatred of the Jews was for centuries also prevalent in the consciousness of Western Christians. However, the opportunity for the teaching of the church to evolve, seen in the historical experience and practice of the Roman Catholic Church, living in the context of a gradual rejection of the old medieval world view and the growth of anti-clerical tendencies, meant that by the time of the sixteenth century the fathers of the Council of Trent (1545 - 63) had developed the thesis that the guilt of Christians, who continue to crucify the Son of G-d by their own sinfulness, is greater than the guilt attached to the Jews (21). The Second Vatican Council of the Roman Catholic Church cancelled the guilt of the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ and expressed its 'sorrow' for its antisemitism. In the ensuing thirty years the Catholic theological understanding of Israel has undergone further significant changes and definitive progress has been made in Catholic-Jewish relations (22).
Unlike the Catholic Church, the Protestant Church from the outset declared Holy Tradition to be the work of man. This made it possible to reject prevailing medieval anti-Jewish concepts and formulate an independent approach to the Jewish question on the basis of new criteria. Such a step did not entirely rid Protestantism of occasional manifestations of antisemitism, but it gave an opportunity each time to reassess and reformulate their religious and philosophical approaches in the context of a changing society. Following the Holocaust, many Protestant churches adopted a radical position in relation to Jews and Judaism through their categorical rejection of all forms of antisemitism and anti-Judaism, of paternalistic attitudes and ultimately through a rejection of any form of missionary activity among the Jews.
Thus the Western churches had the opportunity in the second half of the twentieth century to develop a new position in relation to Judaism. Unlike them, the Russian Orthodox Church has not taken such steps, being wholly governed by the writings of the holy fathers about the Jews 'who crucified Christ'. Russian Orthodox teaching still rests on medieval preconceptions; thus the most extreme Orthodox antisemites can logically claim that their monstrous anti-Jewish invective is based upon 'Church teaching'.
If, for example, St John Chrysostom, one of the most esteemed church fathers, called the Jews 'unclean and foul' and the synagogue 'a refuge of demons', then, given the accepted sanctity of Holy Tradition, the Orthodox Christian has no cause to think otherwise. Indeed nearly all of the most respected church fathers are not distanced from him in their attitudes towards the Jews, including the most respected church activists from Bishop Ignatiy Bryanchaninov to St John of Kronstadt (23). Conversely, there is to our knowledge not even one church father who has professed a genuine love for the Jews in accordance with the Biblical commandments. In this sense, the position of those modern authors who angrily denounce antisemites, denying that they are 'true' Christians, strikes us as somewhat bizarre (24). Following such logic one could add the most respected pillars of the Orthodox Church to the list of 'pseudo-Christians' and deny the genuineness of their faith, given the sorry two-thousand-year history of Judeo-Christian relations. What, then, is true Christianity?
The Moscow Patriarchate has not reacted in any way to the dozens of openly antisemitic books which have been published by Orthodox authors, nor to the articles published in the fascist and neo-fascist press, calling itself 'Orthodox'. In cathedrals and Orthodox bookstalls it is perfectly possible to buy a copy of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, printed under the title of a book by S. Nielus, Velikoye v malom. In addition, openly antisemitic books have been published from time to time by the church itself (38). The hierarchy makes no response either to the representations of the few clergy and laypeople who are troubled by the problem of antisemitism, nor to the appeals of of Western theologians on the same question (39). Instead, with the exception of Metropolitan Ioann, who had the full support of the first group of believers described above, the remaining Russian Orthodox hierarchs prefer not to touch on the Jewish question at all and not to take any measures in this regard (continuing the long tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church), choosing instead to limit themselves to general appeals for tolerance and hoping to avoid being subjected to criticism from both the conservative and democratic factions in the church (40)
Blood Libel Alive and Well in Russia
Literature distributed in Novosibirsk, Russia, warned gentiles to beware of the Jews, who seek to kidnap their children before Passover in order to murder them and use their blood for matza (the unleavened bread that may only include flour and water according to Jewish law).
"Beware Russian parents,” read the pamphlets, according to Yediot Acharonot. “Keep watch over your children before the coming of April 2008, the Jewish holiday of Passover. These disgusting people still engage in ritual practice to their gods. They kidnap small children and remove some of their blood and use it to prepare their holy food. They throw the bodies out in garbage dumps.”
The "blood libel" regarding Jews and their supposed use of children's blood for making matzas dates back to 12th century England, and has served as an excuse for anti-Jewish violence on numerous occasions since.
Jews in Novosibirsk say the pamphlets are just the tip of the iceberg, and that anti-Jewish graffiti can be seen all over the region. Just 13,000 Jews live in the Novosibirsk region, which is located in Siberia.
PLEASE READ:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire
http://www.jcrelations.net/en/?id=787
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSpogroms.htm
http://www.jewishmag.com/77mag/czarpurim/czarpurim.htm
http://factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000416.html
http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/88361.html
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125633
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071029223230AAU24vl
http://www.St o rmFr o nt.org/forum/showthread.php?t=288814
Holocaust/Pogrom Denial is a Sin Against G-d.. All who deny will be destroyed by Hashem. I will fight against all holocaust/pogrom deniers!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JAcJDL5Cfg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS5euC3_P9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m6FI8qYjLQ&feature=related
Song Annatevka from Fiddler on Roof. The scene in movie takes place after the Tzar orders all Jews to leave their village or be put to death. Beautiful song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWiRetxeviw
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Shalom to all of you dear Jewish friends and Bog Pomogo my dear Serbians,
My husband is Jewish,my parents are Serbians,I was born in UK.
Lets love each another,since not many people Today like any of us.
On one of the Serbian forum,I have been warn that they will ban me since I said
something ,just simple words taht I hate RED low-lifes and anti Jewish members on the forum.
Well I am mother ,and will not start puting yellow star on my liittle boys to please somebody.
If I have to purchase gun I will in near future.
Peace and Love to to you all.
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You can not compare the Jewish Destiny in Russia, Serbia and in other Orthodox countries with the Jewish fate in the former fascist countries. I am not going to buy your lies against Orthodox Serbia and Tsarist Russia.
You are right about this one that many Jews were indeed involved in the communist revolution in the year of 1917.
The commanders of the red army and the influential politicians of the USSR as well as the theoreticians (Trotsky) were Jews.
The Tsar and his family was in 1918 captured by Jewish communists and executed in cold blood by Czecha Jews.
To kill the Tsar Nikochals II was a very, very horrible crime.
They did not need to humiliate the Russian nations like that. The Tsar did not deserved to be killed, together with this wife and children, in cold blood.
During the USSR 56 million Orthodox citizens were murdered by the Bolshevik regime.
You can not compare the attitude of the Tsar towards the Jews, with the murdering of 50 million Orthodox Russians - frim 1917 until 1988.
We can do some research on this together.
Find names and backgrond information of USSR politicians, theoreticians and Stalin's agents. They you will see that there were many Jews present in the USSR government.
You know what happened to Orthodox churches and people during USSR?
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You can not compare the Jewish Destiny in Russia, Serbia and in other Orthodox countries with the Jewish fate in the former fascist countries. I am not going to buy your lies against Orthodox Serbia and Tsarist Russia.
Yes, you paint a lying fantasy that Russians and Orthodox treated Jews fairly. You are just same as Arab and European holocaust deniers. You deny the oppression and pogroms Russians did to Jews.
You are right about this one that many Jews were indeed involved in the communist revolution in the year of 1917.
The commanders of the red army and the influential politicians of the USSR as well as the theoreticians (Trotsky) were Jews.
The Tsar and his family was in 1918 captured by Jewish communists and executed in cold blood by Czecha Jews.
To kill the Tsar Nikochals II was a very, very horrible crime.
They did not need to humiliate the Russian nations like that. The Tsar did not deserved to be killed, together with this wife and children, in cold blood.
I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II. Praise Hashem that such a brutal criminal was finally put to death. Yes, those Jews joined Bolsheviks out of desperation, because your slavic brothers were torturing, murdering, stealing and raping our people. You are an ignorant person and I wouldn't be suprise with how you talk, if you are not a Blood and HOnor member in private, infiltrating this site. Really, I think there is many good Serbians on this site and they are more respectful than you are. They are open to conversation and looking over the history of Jews. They don't go painting a fantasy of the life of Jews in Eastern Europe like you do. I noticed your last few posts are about Jews and how they are contributing to the destruction of Kosovo. You are only confirming my original fear of why I posted this thread of "Blood and Honor in Serbia". They are making the same false claims that "Jews" are behind the destruction of Serbia. Do I complain that some of your generals in Serbia joined Hitler and helped massacre some Jews during WWII? However, you focus very much on how a few rogue Jews contributed to Kosovo crisis.
Anti-Semitic pogroms of 1903-1906
Main article: Kishinev pogrom
The administration of Nicholas II published anti-Semitic propaganda that encouraged people to riot in various parts of the Pale of Settlement, resulting in the pogroms of 1903-1906. Viacheslav Plehve, the Minister of the Interior, paid the Kishinev newspaper "Bessarabets" for anti-Semitic material, and the press during the Russo-Japanese War accused the Jews of being a fifth column. This accusation encouraged the eruption of numerous pogroms, especially after Russia lost the war. Pogroms also resulted from the government's reaction to the 1905 revolution. [12]
During the USSR 56 million Orthodox citizens were murdered by the Bolshevik regime.
You can not compare the attitude of the Tsar towards the Jews, with the murdering of 50 million Orthodox Russians - frim 1917 until 1988.
We can do some research on this together.
Find names and backgrond information of USSR politicians, theoreticians and Stalin's agents. They you will see that there were many Jews present in the USSR government.
You know what happened to Orthodox churches and people during USSR?
Once again, your hero the Tzar and the Orthodox church created great atrocities against both Jews and even the RUssian people. THey joined the communists out of blind ignorance thinking they would bring freddom and a solution. Of course, it all backfired when they realized that the communists were just as bad and worse than Tsar. Stalin, himself was an athiest version of the Tsar. He, more or less carried out the same atrocities and to a greater degree. Whereas the Tsar would massacre Jews for refusing to convert to Orthodox CHristianity, Stalin would massacre Jews for refusing to accept athiesm and denying their Jewish identity.
I sent this post to some other Jewish members, to see how they feel about your heretical comments about the denying of the treatment of Jews in Tsarist Russia.
Once again, I want Serbians to know I support them and will never deny their history of suffering at the hands their enemies, like Dalmacija denies our history of suffering under Tsarist and Christian rule. I know not all Christians and countries are the same. I feel that we do have a great ally with many Serbians and I am honored to see how Jews and Kosovo people united together for hundreds of years and suffered persecution from muslims together, still united. Again, I think the Serbians or their Orthodox church are not responsible for any wrongdoings to Jews. MY argument is against Russia and its holocaust it made agaisnt the Jewish people.
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Shalom,
The worst Pogrom which I am reminded of every day is the Massacre of Uman which occured in 1768 in the city of Uman. Here is the information which is posted on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman
The Masscre of Uman was the 1768 massacre of the Jews and Poles at Uman, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by the Ukrainian Haidamak rebel army.
Uman was a well-fortified town that held a large garrison part of Polish troops. This fact made Uman one of the primary targets of Koliyivschyna movement, and, probably, the siege of Uman was planned well in advance. It is known for a fact[citation needed] that Ivan Gonta, an officer in the private militia of Count Potocki (composed of Registered Cossacks) was accused of connections with haidamakas by local Jewish community three months before the siege; however, due to the lack of hard evidence and the sudden death of a star witness on his road to Uman no formal charges were made. It also should be noted that although Ivan Gonta was de-facto the commander of Uman cossacks he was not the most senior in their ranks.
In early June of 1768 the leader of the Ukrainian rebels Maksym Zalizniak marched on Uman after capturing Cherkasy, Korsun and Kaniv. As Zalizniak openly encouraged the slaughter of Jews and Poles, the town was filled with refugees. A large camp filled with Polish nobility and their private militia, regular soldiers and Jewish refugees was stationed outside the city walls. Polish troops that outnumbered the forces of rebels, and, therefore it was decided that some of the forces should guard the ramparts while Gonta with his cossack unit would meet the Haidamakas in open battle. However, when Gonta met Zalizniak's units he openly declared that he is going to join Koliivschyna. Some sources claim that the formal commanders of the unit were sent back to Uman, although the authenticity of the story is highly disputed.
The united troops razed the encampment on June 14th and tried to penetrate the ramparts by hiding the rebels behind the backs of Gonta's Registered Cossacks. However, the attempt failed, and so the siege started on June 17th. The very first day large number of Ukrainians deserted the ranks of Polish forces and joined the rebels when the city was surrounded.
After three days of the siege the city fell to Zalizniak in spite of a courageous defense in which the Jews also played an active role. The tragic event occurred after the betrayal of commandant Mladanovitch, who wanted to buy the lives of Poles betraying Jews to Zaliznak and Gonta. This evolved into the the violent and bloody massacre (where Mladanovitch was himself killed). The Jews then gathered in the synagogues, where they were led by Leib Shargorodski and Moses Menaker in an attempt to defend themselves, but they were destroyed by cannon fire. Most of the remaining Jews in the city were subsequently killed.
Most historians[who?] give an estimate of number of Poles and Jews who were killed in the “massacre of Uman” as to be between 12,000 and 20,000 (it includes Polish army units and private militia). The most conservative estimate is given by Gonta during his trial (2,000) while some of the Jewish historians[who?] put the number close to 50,000. The anniversary of the commencement of the massacre, Tammuz 5, henceforth known as the “Evil Decree of Uman,” was observed as a fast and by a special prayer. Nachman of Breslov settled in Uman, and before his death there, he said, “the souls of the martyrs (slaughtered by Gonta) await me”. After his death in 1811, the Hasidim of Breslov used to come to Uman in large numbers to prostrate themselves at his grave.
This is why I will remember what Russians did to my family...
muman613
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Shalom,
The worst Pogrom which I am reminded of every day is the Massacre of Uman which occured in 1768 in the city of Uman. Here is the information which is posted on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman
The Masscre of Uman was the 1768 massacre of the Jews and Poles at Uman, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth by the Ukrainian Haidamak rebel army.
Uman was a well-fortified town that held a large garrison part of Polish troops. This fact made Uman one of the primary targets of Koliyivschyna movement, and, probably, the siege of Uman was planned well in advance. It is known for a fact[citation needed] that Ivan Gonta, an officer in the private militia of Count Potocki (composed of Registered Cossacks) was accused of connections with haidamakas by local Jewish community three months before the siege; however, due to the lack of hard evidence and the sudden death of a star witness on his road to Uman no formal charges were made. It also should be noted that although Ivan Gonta was de-facto the commander of Uman cossacks he was not the most senior in their ranks.
In early June of 1768 the leader of the Ukrainian rebels Maksym Zalizniak marched on Uman after capturing Cherkasy, Korsun and Kaniv. As Zalizniak openly encouraged the slaughter of Jews and Poles, the town was filled with refugees. A large camp filled with Polish nobility and their private militia, regular soldiers and Jewish refugees was stationed outside the city walls. Polish troops that outnumbered the forces of rebels, and, therefore it was decided that some of the forces should guard the ramparts while Gonta with his cossack unit would meet the Haidamakas in open battle. However, when Gonta met Zalizniak's units he openly declared that he is going to join Koliivschyna. Some sources claim that the formal commanders of the unit were sent back to Uman, although the authenticity of the story is highly disputed.
The united troops razed the encampment on June 14th and tried to penetrate the ramparts by hiding the rebels behind the backs of Gonta's Registered Cossacks. However, the attempt failed, and so the siege started on June 17th. The very first day large number of Ukrainians deserted the ranks of Polish forces and joined the rebels when the city was surrounded.
After three days of the siege the city fell to Zalizniak in spite of a courageous defense in which the Jews also played an active role. The tragic event occurred after the betrayal of commandant Mladanovitch, who wanted to buy the lives of Poles betraying Jews to Zaliznak and Gonta. This evolved into the the violent and bloody massacre (where Mladanovitch was himself killed). The Jews then gathered in the synagogues, where they were led by Leib Shargorodski and Moses Menaker in an attempt to defend themselves, but they were destroyed by cannon fire. Most of the remaining Jews in the city were subsequently killed.
Most historians[who?] give an estimate of number of Poles and Jews who were killed in the “massacre of Uman” as to be between 12,000 and 20,000 (it includes Polish army units and private militia). The most conservative estimate is given by Gonta during his trial (2,000) while some of the Jewish historians[who?] put the number close to 50,000. The anniversary of the commencement of the massacre, Tammuz 5, henceforth known as the “Evil Decree of Uman,” was observed as a fast and by a special prayer. Nachman of Breslov settled in Uman, and before his death there, he said, “the souls of the martyrs (slaughtered by Gonta) await me”. After his death in 1811, the Hasidim of Breslov used to come to Uman in large numbers to prostrate themselves at his grave.
This is why I will remember what Russians did to my family...
muman613
IMHO, your information is right, yet the conclusion is wrong. The crime was committed by Ukrainians, yet you blame Russia. Despite Russians and Ukrainians are close relatives, they have different langaguages and mentalities. They had many quarrels in the past and even several wars. And today they have many disputes.
Russians and Ukrainians are not less as different as Serbs and Croats are.
On zootube I often see as Croats and Ukrainians unite against Serbs and Russians. Croats and Ukrainians sided with Nazis in WW II, while Serbs and Russians fought and defeated them
By the way, today America supports Croats and Ukrainians against Serbs and Russians.
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I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.
SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS. You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...
I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...
I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"
PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....
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I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.
SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS. You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...
I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...
I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"
PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....
Dalmacija..
Fine, BELIEVE what YOU believe, but you are NOT walking in LOVE as YOUR book COMMANDS.
It PLAINLY says in YOUR book that if your FOOD offends people YOU ARE NO LONGER WALKING IN LOVE.
Actually it is us JEWISH people, here on THIS forum that need to be asking HaShem to forgive YOU.
Go back and READ YOUR OWN BOOK.
Any REAL Christian KNOWS the suffering for almost 2000 years that has been INFLICTED on Jewish people- my own family FORCED into EXILE b/c of the Spanish Inquisition with FORCED indoctrinations.
It is ALSO written in YOUR book to "TAKE THE PLANK OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE, before removing the SPEC from your BROTHERS eye! REPENT!
Another thing....where do YOU think that YOU got YOUR faith??
THE JEWS- JUDAISM.
Now GO and REPENT, and leave my brethren ALONE.
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AsheDina
You guys have nice words and nice talks but in practice its all different..
Is not it....?
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where do YOU think that YOU got YOUR faith??
I do not understand you correctly?
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I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.
SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS. You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...
I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...
I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"
PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....
I bet you never cried when the lives of innocent Jews were butchered, brutalized, raped, pillaged and their homes destroyed by your piece of sh*t Tzar. I will tell you, if JTF will start sponsoring and defending the Tzar, I will leave and never come back to this site. There is enough self-hating Jews and Jew haters like you to go around the world a thousand times. I am sick of the crap you post. Save your stupid Tzar-loving speech for your StørmFrønt or BLood and Honor accounts, on JTF you keep your mouth shut about the Tzar as a hero, I hope you understand? If I start honoring the King of Albania as a hero, you would feel likewise. Maybe some of our moderators are sleeping in bed with people like you (SELF-HATING JEW SYNDROME), but I and other JEws are ready to do what we can to stop you. You are , indeed, the most dangerous member on JTF website and promote an anti-semitic agenda here, which I am shocked is tolerated. Don't go crying to Jesus , I am tired of the hypocrisy of your type of religion. I am sick of being your "CHrist Killer" . The G-d of Israel is one who has no respect of persons and will punish evildoers for their crimes, regardless of race. Your Tzar met the fate of Our G-d, Hashem and what a horrible fate he met! Just realize that Hashem punished Tzar for torturing, brutalizing and making a mockery of our race and heritage. Your stupid Tzar. Tzar Shmar! You can go crying and mourning for your Tzar and praying to Jesus that the evil Kike/Zhid named AryehYehudah gets bashed on the head by neo-nazis; but Hashem is with me and he will defend his inheritance Ya'akov/Yisro'el! He will come to defend Lady Tzyon. Even when your Tzar was forcing us to be converted to Orthodox CHristians and murdering us in villages, we never succumbed. I will not succumb to you. Many Jews resisted the Bolsheviks the same way. Your slavic brethren (Russians, Ukranians, Poles), help to brutalize our race for generations.
You should give some respect for the Jewish people and their history and stop spewing your Anti-Semtic hating crap on this site. Its enough you constantly bad mouth USA and all its people and history. But, if you want to go calling us Jews the murderers of your blood-thirsty, selfish, Jew hating Tzar, you got another thing coming buddy!
Spectator:
Whoever, claims Ukranians were not under the Russian wing is fooling themself. Ukranians and Russians worked in one accord in their tyrannical oppression of the Jews. Ukranians are hardly any different in mindset than their Russian comrades. And FYI, the pogrom that Muman is describing was just one of many, many, many. Did you ever make any comment on the hundreds of pogroms the Russians have done to Jews at the order of the the Tzar?
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Once again, I want Serbians to know I support them and will never deny their history of suffering at the hands their enemies, like Dalmacija denies our history of suffering under Tsarist and Christian rule. I know not all Christians and countries are the same. I feel that we do have a great ally with many Serbians and I am honored to see how Jews and Kosovo [Serbian] people united together for hundreds of years and suffered persecution from muslims together, still united. Again, I think the Serbians or their Orthodox church are not responsible for any wrongdoings to Jews. MY argument is against Russia and its holocaust it made against the Jewish people.
Shalom brother AryehYehudah,
That is precisely what I think too. I too fully support the Serbian Orthodox church and the Serbian Orthodox people just like you do.Acknowledging the pogroms which happened to the Jews under Tsarist Russia is NOT an attack on all Orthodox Christians. I think because brother Dalmacija is a strict religious observer of the Orthodox Christian faith he feels deeply offended if if he feels someone is attacking his faith. That is completely normal and understandable.
Criticism of the Russian perpetrators of the anti-Jewish pogroms that occurred in Tsarist Russia does NOT amount to attacking Serbia and the Serbian Orthodox church. We Jews have no quarrel with the Serbian people or their Orthodox Christian faith. However we must acknowledge that many Russian Orthodox believers in the 19th and 18th century under the rule of the Russian Tsars were antisemitic and engaged in anti-Jewish pogroms.
However that does not mean that I now condemn every single Russian,Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Serbian etc.,Orthodox Christian person on the face of this earth for the pogroms which occurred in Tsarist Russia during the 19th and 18th centuries.
Likewise, I don't blame every single Orthodox Christian or Russian today for what Pyotr Ivanovich Rachkovsky - head of the Tsar's secret police [the Okhrana] - did by writing and disseminating the notorious forgery known as the "Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion" - much of which was based on Maurice Joly's novel "Dialogue in Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu" and an antisemitic novel called "Biarritz" by a Prussian [German] secret police informer named Hermann Goedsche.
However I do expect Russians and their Orthodox Christian allies to acknowledge that this happened. We cannot pretend that this never happened. I understand that Dalmacija is a deeply religious Orthodox Christian and views the Russian people as his blood brothers and sisters, so I can understand that he wishes to protect the Russians who belong to the Russian Orthodox church which he says is the same as the Serbian Orthodox church. But history has proven that the Russians and Serbians - despite having the same Orthodox Christian faith - are NOT the same people in terms of their attitudes towards the Jews.
The same applies to Roman Catholic countries and believers - not all of the Roman Catholic peoples' attitudes towards the Jews - or indeed their attitudes towards Nazism/Fascism and Adolph Hitler's Nazi party during the Holocaust of European Jewry were/are the same.All we need to do is look at how Croatia today is an openly Nazi [Ustasha] admiring country to see that.
I also expect decent, righteous Roman Catholics to acknowledge the massive crimes of genocide against 1.2 Million Serbs, Jews and Roma that occurred in the Vatican-supported Ustasha Nazi Croatia during the Holocaust in Yugoslavia from 1941 to 1945. In bringing this issue up, we Jews are NOT attacking ALL Roman Catholics or the Roman Catholic faith. We also expect Roman Catholics to acknowledge that we Jews cannot agree with the beatification of Pope Pius XII and the Croat Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac known as the "Patron Saint of Genocide" during the Holocaust in Ustasha Croatia from 1941 to 1945. Also, Jews in Israel have the right to hold exhibitions and have exhibits in museums exposing Pope Pius XII's role and close relationship with Nazi Germany and Ustasha Croatia during the Holocaust.
Like I said before, I understand that Russia and Serbia have a deep religious and Slavic blood connection and that Russians and Serbs fought heroically over many centuries against the evil Ottoman Islamic savages - especially during the so-called "Russo-Turkish" wars of the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries.
That history of immense sacrifice - with millions of Russians fighting and dying for freedom and liberty against the Ottoman Islamic savage beasts is wonderful, but we also need to look at the historical facts about what happened to Jews during the time of Tsarist Russia with the anti-Jewish pogroms and acknowledge that it happened and was a terrible tragedy for the Jewish people. I am sure that brother Dalmacija fully agrees with me on this despite his misunderstandings and differences of opinion with brother AryehYehudah over the course of several debates here on JTF.
Shalom,
Joshua.
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I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.
SHAME ON YOU FOR SAYING THIS. You know how to play with sensitive sides of people? This is pure Evil...
I will quote my Lord Jesus Christos the Son of the one and only living G-d - the living word which became flesh and blood and died on the cross for the sins of whole humanity...
I will quote Jesus when He was dying on the Cross:
"Father, Father please forgive them they do not know what they are doing"
PS:
I have never met such a horrible person like now....
Dalmacija..
Fine, BELIEVE what YOU believe, but you are NOT walking in LOVE as YOUR book COMMANDS.
It PLAINLY says in YOUR book that if your FOOD offends people YOU ARE NO LONGER WALKING IN LOVE.
Actually it is us JEWISH people, here on THIS forum that need to be asking HaShem to forgive YOU.
Go back and READ YOUR OWN BOOK.
Any REAL Christian KNOWS the suffering for almost 2000 years that has been INFLICTED on Jewish people- my own family FORCED into EXILE b/c of the Spanish Inquisition with FORCED indoctrinations.
It is ALSO written in YOUR book to "TAKE THE PLANK OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE, before removing the SPEC from your BROTHERS eye! REPENT!
Another thing....where do YOU think that YOU got YOUR faith??
THE JEWS- JUDAISM.
Now GO and REPENT, and leave my brethren ALONE.
Shalom sister Paulette,
I can understand where you are coming from and agree with what you are trying to say here, but PLEASE, I implore both you and brother Dalmacija, let's not turn this into another "rabble rousing" style of partisan religious/ethnic tit-for-tat type of verbal warfare of "us" versus "them". We are ALL brothers and sisters here fighting the good fight of faith against our enemies TODAY - the Islamofascist savages, communists/socialists and Nazi beasts trying to take over and destroy our great country and all of Western civilization - so we must remain UNITED against our evil enemies and not attack each other in an ad hominem and personal way.
I also implore dear brother AryehYehudah and brother Dalmacija to please remember this important fact of why we are all here on JTF and to PLEASE debate each other and express differences of opinion without resorting to personal attacks and insults against each other.
Shalom,
Joshua.
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I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.
Ahi, you are completely wrong. The Judaism teaches that we must pray for the kings because they are the source of order. Even a bad Tsar is better than anarchy. When there's an anarchy, people mass kill each other without any fear. This very thing happened after Nicholas II was killed.
You should also know that when Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812, he promised freedom of religion and civil rights to the Russian Jews. Yet the great Alter Rebbe (known also as Rabbi Shenur Zalman from Liady) supported Russian Tsar Alexander! He knew that the Napoleon's "emancipation" will make the Jews more rich but at the same time it will lead to spiritual degradation and assimilation. On the other hand, in Russia Jews will probably live in poverty but their beleif in G-d will only be stronger. The Rebbe has sent several Jews as spies to the French army, who occupid high posts there and provided the Russians with military intelligence. Rebbe's tribute to the victory was noticed by Tsar Alexander who gave him the title of Honorable Citizen. Five generations of Chabad Rabbis benefited from this title to make the life of Russsian Jews better.
Aryeh Yehuda,
I don't want to say that there was no oppression of Jews in Russia. But it was no stronger than in European countries. It is not proper to use the word "holocaust" while describing Russian attitude to the Jews. And don't mention Bogdan Khmelnitsky who committed mass kill of the Jews in 17th century, he and his army were Ukrainians.
The Ukrainians ans Russians are different. I was born in Belarus and lived there for 20 years. I know exactly that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians are different peoples. I know exactly that Ukrainans as a nation are more antisemitic and most of pogroms were in the Ukraine.
While being generally oppressive to the Jews, the Russian state sometimes did very good things to us. They vanquished German Nazis. They liberated Auszwitz. They supplied arms to Israel through Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia in 1948, when the IDF was just born and suffered a great arms shortage. And if you say that they were doing it in their own interest, I also state that America helps Israel in its own interest too.
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Shalom Joshua,
You are a very intelligent person and I respect your post you just made. Just know that I have gained much respect for Serbia and its people. I, originally, posted this post not to degrade Serbians, but to hear their feelings of false teachings that neo-Nazis, Blood and HOnor, have been promoting. Unless you are blind and dumb, you can easily find neo-nazi and other Jew hating websites that are promoting many pro-Serb articles and many of them look to Milosevic as a hero. This has brought fear to me and other Jews that Serbians may get tricked into joining this movement, as a small number have done, due to the fact that they have been abused by the Western World and need an outlet. I am happy to see many Serbians are resisting neo-nazis and white nationalists and brushing off the praise that they get from these people. However, I wanted to address this to the Serbians on the forum and see that we can share.
However, Dalmacija made some very bad responses on the subject, slandering me, calling me bad names. Then he starts making anti-semitic rants claiming the Jews murdered the Tzar in cold blood and that many Jews support the death of Serbia. In effect, he was sayign the very same thigns, I fear that any Serbian would say about our people. Joshua, I know you really have a deep love of Serbia and feel sad for the oppression that was done to them, but I hope you can see the type of things Dalmacija are saying are highly offensive to the Jewish people. I have apologized for the slanders I made against Serbia's church when I first came to JTF. This was done out of ignorance. However, Dalmacija constantly makes slanders to our people and, not only does he not apologize, he seems to just make more and more.
How can JTF accept a person on their site who says the JEws murdered the Tzar in cold blood? This belongs on Blood and HOnor website, not JTF. Please, brother Joshua, I plead to you, to look deeper at what he says, and stop trying to make everyone look innocent. Please, being a religious Christian, doesn't mean you get to deny the suffering of people. You made great points and I agree with you achei Joshua, 100%
As for Serbs, please remember our heritage and suffer and us Jews will be your achim (Brothers) in arms.. We will fight and die by your side.. As for those self-hating Jews that Dalmacija is ranting about; well, just know that there are self-hating Serbians to who did come to the side of nazis. So, neither us Jews or you Serbians are innocent. However, we will remove the despots from our ranks and unite the holy and righteous people together.
This is my plead to JTF: Jews, Serbians , please do not deny our Jewish history. DOn't let people like Dalmacija say that Jews murderd the Tsar in cold-blood or that saying bad Jews are more dangerous to Serbia than neo-nazis are to us Jews. I know real Serbs will also look down on the tyranny of the Tsar and unite with their Israelite brothers and end the repressive policies of tyrants.
G-d bless Serbia and Milosevic for being brave and defending Jews and fighting Islamonazi demons.
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AryehYehudah
What about 56 million Russians which were killed by Bolshevik Jews?
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I was only saying that your behavior in the past towards the Orthodox Church – in general – and Orthodoxy was a Nazi way of behaving.
That does not automatically say that you are a 100% convinced Nazi.
They will stop! I know that!
Yes, you are right, Jasmina. It will stop now.
Dalmacija, I have warned you so many times over and over again. I have stood up for you when you were almost banned in the past. Now, you start more fights and respond cruelly, breaking most of the rules of the forum and showing complete disregard to me and the other members of the forum. I'm tired of wasting my time on this nonsense when all the other replies handled the issue calmly with maturity and dignity. It seems like you can't help yourself, start out calling everyone nazis, threaten people, and that you refuse to control your temper.
Dalmacija, you are banned.
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I honor those Jews who murdered TSar Nicholas II.
Ahi, you are completely wrong. The Judaism teaches that we must pray for the kings because they are the source of order. Even a bad Tsar is better than anarchy. When there's an anarchy, people mass kill each other without any fear. This very thing happened after Nicholas II was killed.
Did we pray for Nebuchadenezzar when he destroyed our temple and put us into slavery? We must pray for our own kings, but not for kings who oppress us and force us to lose our religion and heritage. DId you forget the Tsar tried to force Jews to become Christians and repressed us from writing in our language or practicing our religion? Chaver, you really are very confused and seem to lack some knowledge of Russian history from Western standpoint; I think as you say you live in Belarusl; you were educated and brainwashed under the Soviets.
You should also know that when Napoleon invaded Russia in 1812, he promised freedom of religion and civil rights to the Russian Jews. Yet the great Alter Rebbe (known also as Rabbi Shenur Zalman from Liady) supported Russian Tsar Alexander! He knew that the Napoleon's "emancipation" will make the Jews more rich but at the same time it will lead to spiritual degradation and assimilation. On the other hand, in Russia Jews will probably live in poverty but their beleif in G-d will only be stronger. The Rebbe has sent several Jews as spies to the French army, who occupid high posts there and provided the Russians with military intelligence. Rebbe's tribute to the victory was noticed by Tsar Alexander who gave him the title of Honorable Citizen. Five generations of Chabad Rabbis benefited from this title to make the life of Russsian Jews better.
Well, there was Rabbis who helped King (FUhrer) Adolf Hitler too? So what? Ever heard of the Judenratt? Many Jews shunned the British, Russians and knew Germany and its people were their homeland. Well, according to your logic, we should have not rebelled against Adolf Hitler either, since he was a king. Sure he tried to genocide our race, but it would have only made us stronger people; after all, being in Auschwitz and being starved and worked to death, then gassed, bring us much closer to Hashem. How about being under the rule of Caesar? Did you mind that he use to feed Jews to lions for entertainment? Any king who will make war against El'keynu (Our G-d) is no king in the eyes of Hashem. Yes, that same Tsar who honored Rabbis refused to let any Jews become officers, regardless of the fact some faught harder and risked their life for Russia. We were always treated as inferior subspecies of humans, like animals. WHy should we honor such a tyrant as a king? Hashem knows a true king; he is ANoited By Hashem! These kings are not Anoited of Hashem.
Aryeh Yehuda,
I don't want to say that there was no oppression of Jews in Russia. But it was no stronger than in European countries. It is not proper to use the word "holocaust" while describing Russian attitude to the Jews. And don't mention Bogdan Khmelnitsky who committed mass kill of the Jews in 17th century, he and his army were Ukrainians.
You cannot say there is no opression of Jews in Russia. That would be absurd.
Jews were treated much worse in Russia, Ukraine, Poland than elsewhere in Europe. Many Jews escaped to Germany, just to get some relief to the horrific treatment they faced. Of course, later in time, the Jews would face worse treatment in the Third Reich, but that is a different story altogether. Many Jews were much happier under Kaiser than the Tsar.
The Ukrainians ans Russians are different. I was born in Belarus and lived there for 20 years. I know exactly that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians are different peoples. I know exactly that Ukrainans as a nation are more antisemitic and most of pogroms were in the Ukraine.
While being generally oppressive to the Jews, the Russian state sometimes did very good things to us. They vanquished German Nazis. They liberated Auszwitz. They supplied arms to Israel through Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia in 1948, when the IDF was just born and suffered a great arms shortage. And if you say that they were doing it in their own interest, I also state that America helps Israel in its own interest too.
They did not do good things for the love of Jews. You know those same Russians wanted to make an allegiance with Adolf Hitler. However, Adolf Hitler refused to align with inferior slavic/mongoloid bolsheviks and wanted them all destroyed. So, of course, the Russians had to fight. THey did not free Auschwitz out of the kindness of their hearts; but rather it was just another military target of the Germans that had to be destoyed.
The Russians supplied arms to Israel? That is rubbish. THe Russians supplied arms to Arabs and all of Israel's enemies ever since Israel's birth. Almost every weapon that Arabs/Persians can boast of today came from the Russians. Excluding, the Saudis of course! The Russians did all in their power to destroy the rogue state of Israel, who refused to be another Russian communist puppet state. Yes, go study a bit of history about 1948 war , Six Day war and Yom Kippur War. Where those arabs flying Migs or American jets? Were those arabs armed with M-16s or AK-47s? All of the sopshiticated arab artillery and military equipment was supplied, courtesy of the Russian empire. hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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AryehYehudah, I just banned Dalmacija for fighting.
You are a good Jew and a very intelligent person. Please debate calmly and respectfully. I do not need more fighting.
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I understand Shlomo. Sorry for my anger.. Really, I do have a bit of temper problem at times.. May G-d forgive me and I pray to stop. I never intended to get in a quarrel here. Really, I was just about ready to leave this thread behind, because the other Serbians made me happy with their response. Then I was insulted by Dalmacija. I apologize for getting hot tempered. No matter what people say, I must approach my arguments in a calm, well-constructed manner. I give much respect to Joshua (4International) and others for being more cool-headed in their refutations and posts than myself. Please, I am sorry.. This is very emotional subject for me.. I will not let my emotions get the best of me..
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I understand Shlomo. Sorry for my anger.. Really, I do have a bit of temper problem at times.. May G-d forgive me and I pray to stop. I never intended to get in a quarrel here. Really, I was just about ready to leave this thread behind, because the other Serbians made me happy with their response. Then I was insulted by Dalmacija. I apologize for getting hot tempered. No matter what people say, I must approach my arguments in a calm, well-constructed manner. I give much respect to Joshua (4International) and others for being more cool-headed in their refutations and posts than myself. Please, I am sorry.. This is very emotional subject for me.. I will not let my emotions get the best of me..
You did provoke him quite a bit. Saying he was "crying" for example.
He was actually fairly objective. You were just talking generally about russian anti-semitism. I doubt he was denying it, you didn't really discuss things rationally with him.
He shouldn't have tried to discuss things with you for so long.
4international would have been able to argue facts with him.. and it looks like he has in the past.
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Oops, Dalmacija was juat banned.. Here's what I was going answer him about Bolshevik Jews:
Dalmacija,
You should know the following more facts about those Bolsheviks of Jewish origin:
1. They abandoned the Jewish Tradition and served an monstrous Communist idea that is completely alien to Judaism. Hafetz Chaim, the great rabbi of the Jews at that time, cursed those people.
2. They severely persecuted and killed their fellow Jews who remained loyal to the Jewish way.
3. The committed a deadly sin of Hillul HaShem - Desecration of G-d's name. While being Jewish, they committed great crimes and threby gave the ground to antisemites who mention their deeds when they balme or attack Jews.
4. Their crimes didn't go unpunished. While having high posts in the government, those Bolshevik Jews were not the ultimate rulers of Russia. They ALL were killed in the same vaults by the same means they were killing others.
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However, Dalmacija made some very bad responses on the subject, slandering me, calling me bad names. Then he starts making anti-semitic rants claiming the Jews murdered the Tzar in cold blood and that many Jews support the death of Serbia. In effect, he was sayign the very same thigns, I fear that any Serbian would say about our people. Joshua, I know you really have a deep love of Serbia and feel sad for the oppression that was done to them, but I hope you can see the type of things Dalmacija are saying are highly offensive to the Jewish people. I have apologized for the slanders I made against Serbia's church when I first came to JTF. This was done out of ignorance. However, Dalmacija constantly makes slanders to our people and, not only does he not apologize, he seems to just make more and more.
How can JTF accept a person on their site who says the JEws murdered the Tzar in cold blood? This belongs on Blood and HOnor website, not JTF. Please, brother Joshua, I plead to you, to look deeper at what he says, and stop trying to make everyone look innocent. Please, being a religious Christian, doesn't mean you get to deny the suffering of people. You made great points and I agree with you achei Joshua, 100%
Shalom brother AryehYehudah,
you see I was just about to do precisely just that - what you just suggested. I was just about to write to brother Dalmacija privately, but unfortunately I was too late!! I feel very sad that this has happened but I could see it coming. You see this is what happens when people lose their cool. I have been provoked by numerous people on many occasions on the internet [even sadly, once or twice here on JTF] and I always try and respond respectfully to people and understand their point of view by reading between the lines.
I wasn't trying to make anybody here look innocent - instead I was trying to understand their heart and soul and why they think the way they do. I always try and correct them whenever I can when I believe that what they are saying is wrong. But I always show RESPECT and COURTESY and never engage in ad hominem name calling.
I know brother Dalmacija has a good heart because I have spoken to him privately on many occasions and he really spilled his guts to me. He really trusts me and expressed his deep love for Israel and the Jewish people so many times and was absolutely and unequivocally sincere about it.He never once showed any sympathy or empathy for any kind of Fascist, white supremacist or neo-Nazi cause even once. Quite the contrary - he said that he can't stand those people and that being a Nazi, Fascist or white supremacist means you automatically STOP BEING A SERB and stop being an Orthodox Christian. I never heard anyone put it quite like that before.
I can understand his immense feelings of rage, hurt, anger and frustration at the enormous suffering of his people in Krajina, Bosnia and Kosovo at the hands of the Clinton and Bush administrations - supporting the Islamic Bosnian and Albanian savages and the Croat Ustasha Nazis - which Chaim himself has discussed on numerous occasions in many JTF videos [especially the one called "The Betrayal of the Heroic Serbs".
It is such a shame that brother Dalmacija wears his heart on his sleeve - being so sensitive means he so easily loses his temper and says some unbelievably stupid things which deep down he doesn't really believe at all. He lost his temper yet again today and this time was banned by brotehr Shlomo as a result. I warned him that this could easily happen and unfortunately for him, it did. I am sorry to see that JTF has lost such a good Serbian member as a result.
Shalom,
Joshua.
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You did provoke him quite a bit. Saying he was "crying" for example.
He also provoked me quite a bit too. Well, that was a figure of speech, meaning he was making yelling out.. Did you happen to notice he called me a nazi? I guess you will side with him , that is ok.. I am not going to quarrel with you to. Q_Q. I have seen your posts and I know you are a person who likes to get in arguments with people and also I have seen you antagnoize many members on this board. I will not engage with you. I don't think you mind when you provoke people.
He was actually fairly objective. You were just talking generally about russian anti-semitism. I doubt he was denying it, you didn't really discuss things rationally with him.
He shouldn't have tried to discuss things with you for so long.
Oh Gosh.. Lol.. yeah sure he was.. He wrote that the Jews murdered 56,000,000 Russians and that the Jews murdered The Tsar in cold-blood. That is objective?
Hey, I am not arguing here! I am just defending myself against false accusations that QQ is bringing against me.. ;D Personally, I think QQ is just making broad generalizations. He has refused to read a majority of this thread.
Shalom Alecheim.
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I am going to lock this thread. I can tell that emotions are running high and I think it's for the best.