13 years of Blood and Honor in Serbia

[AryehYehudah]

Hi, I am just wondering what you guys think about this.  I am looking a pro-Serbia neo-nazi group who is fighting for Serbians rights.  They claim its Jews and Zionists who were responsible for attacking Serbia and giving Kosovo to Albanians.  I know from talking with many Serbs that you support Israel and shun Nazism, so please don't feel that I am accusing you, as I did in the past.  Anyhow, I know that Blood and Honor groups and other Neo-Nazis are more prevalent in Russia, Croatia, Bosnia and other post-Soviet eastern bloc countries thatn Serbia.  I just would like to know what majority of Serbians think.  Is there many Serbians who believe Zionism or Jews are responsible for the devastation that Serbs incurred at the hands of the left-wing liberal governments.  I was reading some neo-nazis boards online and viewing websites and I came across some disturbing pro-Serbian nationalism on these sites.  Well, I know Serbians feel hurt and left in the gutter by the West, but I wonder, out of desperation, are many siding with White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis?    I know obviously that the Serbs on this website are pro-Zionist and Jew and shun all the anti-semitism that the Blood and Honor group promotes.  As I said, I am still learning more of Serbia and would like to hear some opinions.  Please tell me what they think of this Serbian Blood and Honor movement.  According to them, they say the Jews are responsible for all the hardships Serbia faces today.

http://www.skrewdriver.net/serb1.html

[Boyana]

I am glad you ask this.We Serbs do have a few Nazi in Serbia now,but you have them in Israel as well.
Why are they?A srewed lot,some of them have one parent Muslem,some of them are looking to blame
somebody,for the povetry.
By the way most of them think most of Jews are rich.
Maybe they are Nazi,since they do not mix well with other Serbs.
Some get paid to visit Serbian forums and pretend that there iz more Nazi in Serbia,than it is.
They are not strong,just stupid,slow and not very brave.

[Jasmina]

Personally I know just one Serb who is Neo Nazi, but this group of ppl is small, weird!
I guess in all countries one will find specimens like that! you can not judge a whole country to be antizionistic if 2 men are Nazi!
  Another analogy can be for ex: if Gypsies from Romania go abroad their country and do bad things there, that doesn't mean that all Romanians are criminals!
  We condemn this type of behavior in Serbia! Serbs didn't allow Neo Nazi March in Belgrade two weeks ago! That would answer your question?

[AryehYehudah]

Personally I know just one Serb who is Neo Nazi, but this group of ppl is small, weird!
I guess in all countries one will find specimens like that! you can not judge a whole country to be antizionistic if 2 men are Nazi!
  Another analogy can be for ex: if Gypsies from Romania go abroad their country and do bad things there, that doesn't mean that all Romanians are criminals!
  We condemn this type of behavior in Serbia! Serbs didn't allow Neo Nazi March in Belgrade two weeks ago! That would answer your question?

Yes, I am happy to hear Serbia banned such a march.  I did not know that.  I know in most Eastern EUropean countries, including RUssia, neo-nazism is celebrated and they march freely.  Even here in USA, neo-nazis are relatively free to march and advertise their Jew-hating propaganda machine.  I guess the pictures were scary on the website and give people false understanding.  They are polluting your churches by holding Serbia flag in front of Serbian Orthodox Church and using the hitler salute.   Many Jews, including myself, are freaked out at Eastern European nazis, so when we see these pics we worry.  I realize these are a subset of rogues who are trying to defame your country and church.  These people shoiuld be executed, but I know in the name of "human rights" they will be allowed to promote their garbage.

Please fight to stop these neo-nazis who are feeding on your people as prey.  THey see you are in bad situation and will love to make you think Jews were responsible for the destruction of Serbia and Kosovo.  They will tell you Madeline Albright, the Jewess, is the person behind this.  Just remember there is many Jews who have voted to destroy homes of other Jews and even working to genocide our own race.  But, these nazi apes love to have a common enemy.  THey are simple and white people with low intelligence and so they like afro-americans will focus on one enemy for all problems.  They don't realize how many Jews have been fighting Muslims, foreigners and trying to establish a peaceful and progressive society.  They always close their eyes on the much greater majority of gentiles who have bene workign for the destruction of the White Race.  Yes, they claim the Jews are responsible for all heresies. 

I pray Serbians don't buy into this garbage.  Iwas just reading a huge posting on Blood and Honor website praising some Serbian general for his work in murdering Jews in WWII.  They seem to have some affection for your country, this group.  Please,  I hope Serbians don't buy into this garbage like the Russians and other Eastern Europeans have.  I have fiath Serbians will rise above this, just as they rose above Nazis in WWII and fought to the death to defend their nation and help assist Jewish people.

[Boyana]

NAZI APES.Yes that what they are and they look like apes.
They are not strong,but should be put down now,not to wait.
Sometimes I go to Serbian forum,and if I am upset with some nasty Nazi,I give them
the answer in Jidish or hebrew.

[4International]

Shalom Brother AryehYehudah,

Thanks for posting this question. Of course I can't speak for all righteous Gentile Serbs here on JTF, but as a Jew, I can tell you what I know after doing my own extensive research on this issue independently. These neo-Nazi and "White Power" groups in Serbia are - thank G-d - a very tiny minority of the Serbian population.

A few major differences between these Serbian neo-Nazi groups and the Croatian Ustasha Nazis are:

1) Groups like "Blood and Honor" are comprised mainly of unemployed, young, poorly educated, soccer-hooligan types who fortunately are a very small percentage of the Serbian population.


2) Unlike the Croatian Ustasha which has very broad support in terms of Croatian culture [eg musicians,poets,authors], the Croatian Catholic clergy, the Croat intelligentsia-academia in the universities, the official Croatian government and Croat social strata across all age, education and income groups, there is no similar mass overwhelming support from the Serbian population as a whole for any of these neo-Nazi groups.Serbs overwhelmingly condemn these groups as the "lunatic fringe of society" just like they are condemned as lunatics here in America by the majority of the American people.

3) In Croatia they have this band called "Thompson" [lead singer's real name is Marko Perkovic] who glorifies the Holocaust in the Jasenovac death camp and sings songs praising "Maks' butchers"!! - who were a group of incredibly cruel Ustasha killers in Jasenovac led by Vjekoslav "Maks" Luburic - and he regularly sings songs about Croatia being a victim of the "satanic Jewish-Masonic conspiracy". Thompson attracts many Croat nuns, priests and former government officials to his concerts. "Thompson"'s concerts regularly attract upwards of 60,000 to 100,000 Croats -  basically the maximum amount that can fit into the stadiums in the Croatian capitol, Zagreb -and these 60,000 to 100,000 Croats all simultaneously give the "Za Dom Spremni" [Croat version of the German "Sieg Heil" salute]whilst listening to his "music"!

Please read the following article:

Oppose Fascist Rock Star's US Tour with the Truth - Part 1 by Jared Israel - Member of the International Commission on Jasenovac

http://emperors-clothes.com/tour.htm



[inappropriate image removed]









[inappropriate image removed]

[inappropriate image removed]



[inappropriate image removed]











See also Julia Gorin's excellent articles at the following links:

http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=911

http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/index.php?s=Perkovic&submit=Search&paged=2

http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/index.php?s=Perkovic&submit=Search

As you know brother AryehYehudah, we have here in the United States hundreds, perhaps thousands of these skinhead, neo-Nazi, "White Power" "White Nationalist" and so-called "Aryan" groups all over the country - like the White Aryan Nations, White Aryan Resistance, StørmFrønt, the Ku Klux Klan, etc., whom we of course - in the interests of free speech - allow to stage rallies and protest publicly against the imaginary American "ZOG" but most righteous right-wing conservative Americans condemn these groups and distance themselves from them. The same attitude applies to the vast majority of Serbs in Serbia.

I have had a few confrontations with members from these neo-Nazi groups on zootube and one thing I have noticed is that zootube definitely goes out of its way to encourage and promote these vile neo-Nazi groups as much as possible, but when Jews and righteous Gentiles - whether Serbian or American - react by trying to post videos in response, they invariably get deleted by zootube's moderators. JTF brother Dalmacija has already written to me about these Serbian neo-Nazi groups and I can confirm independently from my own research that what he told me about them being a tiny minority of the Serbian population was - thankfully - the truth.


Shalom,

Joshua.

EDIT: Please do NOT post inappropriate or immodest images -Shlomo

[4International]

Shalom once again brother AryehYehudah,

I forgot to mention that there is growing evidence to suggest that intelligence agencies from Western governments in the European Union and NATO are covertly supporting these European neo-Nazi groups behind the scenes. The EU and NATO have covertly funded and promoted these global neo-Nazi groups [like "Blood and Honor"] - and especially their chapter in Serbia -  in order to deflect blame and responsibilty for the destruction of Serbia during the 1990's by EU/NATO governments themselves - and to simultaneously paint the entire Serbian nation with a Nazi brush, thus making the defense of the righteous Serbian people all the more difficult.

They do this by disseminating crude propaganda promoting the ridiculous and insane theory that "the Jews" who supposedly "control the Zionist US government" were behind the nearly 10 year long UN sanctions imposed on Serbia and the 3 month long terror bombing of civilians in Serbia and Kosovo-Metohija from March to June 1999.Their so-called "evidence" for this ludicrous theory? That "there were many Zionist Jews in Bill Clinton's administration like Holbrooke, Clark, Berger, Albright, Cohen, Rubin, et al".

Of course, they DON'T tell the truth that these so-called "Zionist Jews" were NOT real Zionists at all and of course neglect to mention that they worked tirelessly AGAINST the interests and security of Israel and the Jewish people during Clinton's two terms in office.

See the articles in the "Civil Wars In Yugoslavia" section at http://www.hirhome.com for more in-depth information.


Shalom,

Joshua.

[AryehYehudah]

Shalom Joshua,
THanks for this detailed and well constructed information.  Yes, I think I am starting to get a better idea of the situation.  You're right, every country has neo-nazis and many other countries are promoting them.  What made worried about Serbia is that it was neglected and abused and I thought maybe some people would lash out at Jews, as they are seen as people of the "West".  Well, I think most Serbians have proven to be honorable and brave in times of crisis and, just as the resisted Hitler's decree of hating Jews in WWII, today they also do not forget their history and resist the pleas of these same people.  Of course, one reason I still worry about Serbia falling into this trap is that they do claim brotherhood with Russia, which is a major anti-semitic nation.  However, the mentality of Russians does not seem to rub off on Serbians and they seem to be independant in their ideologies and principles.  Well, I do feel more confident aobut Serbia.  Seeing this garbage on the web will only divert people from the truth and give Jewish people wrong view of Serbians.

It is true Europeans would like to build and fund neo-nazi groups in countries they feel are contrary to their gay, leftist , Pro-Islamic and Pro-Communist ideologies.  What I see in Croatia is insanity. 

This is off the subject, but relates to what I see with these Croatian nazi celebrations:
I wish Israel was not so cowardly right now.  We have no backbone anymore and our country is full of cowards and homosexuals.  How can we let a non-nuclear country like Croatia so openly celebrate nazism?  I think Israel should threaten to nuke their country or have them stop.  If I was the leader of Israel I would tell them that any country who openly celebrates the mass-murder of my people, wil lthemselves be mass murdered.  Eye for an eye!  And better their children fall than mine!  Well, this hedonism is proliferating in Europe and it seems there is a few nations who are trying to resist the decimation being caused by the liberal, homosexual, nazi , Pro-Islamic empire that is being established in Europe.  Just like rats in a sewer, so are these people multiplying throughout Europe and USA too.  I wish Israel would start conquering these countries like in ancient times and setting up military bases so we can have a leg to stand on.  Why should we have to beg Turkey for permission to do test flights with our air force?  Why should we beg India for permission to launch satellites?  We only own 5% of our original land and we are even disposing of more of it, to leftist-Arab nazi scum.   I think Serbia should prepare to attack its enemies, all the same if it is was concerned for its well being.   Serbia should train itself for an attack on Croatia and BOsnia.  Maybe they are doing this and hoping Russia will defend them.  However, Russia would never do so.  If Israel can get a right-wing leader in power, this joint effort would be a viable option.   Europeans leftists are concerned only with destroying anything holy and pure.

Sorry, I know some may disagree with my analogy about conquest, but that is how Israel established its sovereignty in ancient times, by conquering its enemies and taking over their land.  Better that it is in our hands than the hands of our enemies.

[4International]

I wish Israel was not so cowardly right now.  We have no backbone anymore and our country is full of cowards and homosexuals.  How can we let a non-nuclear country like Croatia so openly celebrate nazism?  I think Israel should threaten to nuke their country or have them stop.   If I was the leader of Israel I would tell them that any country who openly celebrates the mass-murder of my people, will themselves be mass murdered.  Eye for an eye!  And better their children fall than mine!  Well, this hedonism is proliferating in Europe and it seems there is a few nations who are trying to resist the decimation being caused by the liberal, homosexual, nazi , Pro-Islamic empire that is being established in Europe.  Just like rats in a sewer, so are these people multiplying throughout Europe and USA too.  I wish Israel would start conquering these countries like in ancient times and setting up military bases so we can have a leg to stand on.  Why should we have to beg Turkey for permission to do test flights with our air force?  Why should we beg India for permission to launch satellites?  We only own 5% of our original land and we are even disposing of more of it, to leftist-Arab nazi scum.   I think Serbia should prepare to attack its enemies, all the same if it is was concerned for its well being.   Serbia should train itself for an attack on Croatia and BOsnia.  Maybe they are doing this and hoping Russia will defend them.  However, Russia would never do so. If Israel can get a right-wing leader in power, this joint effort would be a viable option.    Europeans leftists are concerned only with destroying anything holy and pure.

Shalom brother AryehYehudah,

Great reply! I agree that once the people of Israel and Serbia throw out their traitorous leftist leaders and put into power true conservative right-wing leaders, we Jews should forge a formal military alliance with righteous right-wing Serbs and destroy our common Islamofascist and Nazi enemies.

I hope I don't offend my Serbian brothers and sisters here who look to Russia with [false delusions of] hope, but the fact of the matter is that Russia is still run by former communists and a criminal robber-baron monopoly-"capitalist" [i.e., Globalist] oligarchical elite, who over the last 18 years have done very little to help Serbia apart from engage in rhetoric and hollow, empty promises of military assistance. We have seen this terrible betrayal and stabbing of the Serbian people in the back by the Russian political elite time and time again over the last 18 years.

Russia could have smashed every NATO and EU attack against Serbia during the 1990's but deliberately chose not to do so. In fact Russia did the complete opposite by backing every pro-EU/NATO leftist,globalist, traitorous anti-American, anti-Serbian manuever by the Clinton administration. First, by abandoning the Serbian people to their fate in their darkest hour and most critical time of need in the  months leading up to the expulsion of 500,000 Serbs from Croatia and Krajina in 1995. Secondly, during the 3 month NATO bombing of civilian areas in Kosovo-Metohija and Serbia from March to June 1999.

Since Vladimir Putin came to power in 2000, Russia has continued the Yeltsin-era communist policies:  instead of supplying Serbia with the most sophisticated anti-aircraft and surface to surface weapons so Serbia can defend herself, Putin's regime supplies communist Venezuela and Islamofascist Iran with these high-tech weapons instead!

This is a terrible ongoing betrayal of their blood brother Slavic Serbian Orthodox Christian kin which I hope the righteous Serbs here on JTF can agree with me is totally unacceptable behavior by the Russian government. This is NOT the way a true blood-brother ally and friend would behave towards a "little sister" like Serbia in her time of greatest need when she is threatened with annihilation by the Albanian and Bosnian muslim savage beasts in Kosovo-Metohija and Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as  by the Croat Ustasha Nazi beasts in Croatia and occupied Krajina.



I wrote elsewhere on another thread:

If Serbs truly wish to regain their freedom and their sacred religious and cultural heartland they must be prepared to fight and die for it. History has proven time and again that freedom doesn't come cheap. If the EU threatens the Serbs with economic sanctions (the way Bush Snr did in 1992 via the UN) or if the EU threatens a military attack against Serbia via NATO, the Serbs should immediately threaten to annihilate all of the Albanian muslims in Kosovo and all of the Bosnian muslims in Bosnia.

If Washington decides to again betray the Serbs - the way Washington did during the 1990's under those two swines Bill and Hillary Clinton - and back the fascist-socialist EU in any kind of blackmail by making Clinton-esque economic or military threats against the Serbs (a la March,1999) for daring to reclaim their Serbian dignity, honor and national sovereignty - then Serbia should immediately launch a blitzkrieg style military campaign to expel all EU/NATO troops, retake all of Kosovo-Metohija and expel all the Albanian muslims and Bosnian muslims from Serb-land once and for all.

Yes, this will entail many civilian and military deaths but this is the only way to deal with muslim Nazi scum who commit beheadings of "infidels" for fun.

After kicking out the traitorous, evil pro-EU regime of Boris Tadic [who recently said that "Serbs should forget the Holocaust in WW2 Ustasha Croatia"], Serbia should build fast breeder nuclear reactors and produce several hundred nuclear warheads with sophisticated intercontinental or at least intermediate range ballistic missile delivery systems capable of defeating any kind of anti-missile defense system that the Croats, Albanian and Bosnian muslims could possibly obtain from any source. That way, in the event of a large scale regional or European war, the Serbs would not have to fear a multiple attack by the Ustasha Croats, Bosnian and Albanian Islamofascists on several fronts as happened during the Holocaust from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars of the 1990's.

Our experiences as Jews since the founding of the Holy Jewish homeland of Eretz Yisrael in 1948, show us that the only thing these muslim savage beasts understand and respect is OVERWHELMING MILITARY FORCE.

Likewise, our allies - the righteous Gentile Serbs inside and outside Serbia's borders -  must also realize, from their bitter experiences during the Holocaust in Croatia and Bosnia from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars waged against Serbs during the 1990's [eg the mass beheadings,throat cutting and bodily dismemberment of Serbian men,women and children in Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia], that the only thing these murderous Croat Ustasha, Albanian KLA and Bosnian SDA muslim Nazi beasts understand and respect is sheer OVERWHELMING BRUTE  FORCE. If the chips are down and worse comes to worst in a major European or World War, then clearly survival instincts of self-defense demand that in order to prevent another repeat of the 1941-1945 Holocaust of Jews and Serbs we need to use OVERWHELMING BRUTE FORCE in the form of Nuclear annihilation of these murderous savage Nazi beasts in a pre-emptive strike against their bases of operation, BEFORE these savage beasts try to annihilate us -  Jews and Serbs - with the very same type of weapons. A reminder of what awaits us if Israel, America and Serbia fail to act against these beasts before it is too late:

[DALMACIJA]

AryehYehudah

You, AryehYehudah, and like these Nazis both hate Orthodoxy.

You, AryehYehudah, can start to call me a Jew - together with these anti- Orthodox friends of you. Because according to these Nazis, which you promote, here, I am following a Jewish religion....

You also had problem with my religion in the past?
AryehYehudah are you also saying that I am following a Jewish sekt?

[White Israelite]

Hi, I am just wondering what you guys think about this.  I am looking a pro-Serbia neo-nazi group who is fighting for Serbians rights.  They claim its Jews and Zionists who were responsible for attacking Serbia and giving Kosovo to Albanians.  I know from talking with many Serbs that you support Israel and shun Nazism, so please don't feel that I am accusing you, as I did in the past.  Anyhow, I know that Blood and Honor groups and other Neo-Nazis are more prevalent in Russia, Croatia, Bosnia and other post-Soviet eastern bloc countries thatn Serbia.  I just would like to know what majority of Serbians think.  Is there many Serbians who believe Zionism or Jews are responsible for the devastation that Serbs incurred at the hands of the left-wing liberal governments.  I was reading some neo-nazis boards online and viewing websites and I came across some disturbing pro-Serbian nationalism on these sites.  Well, I know Serbians feel hurt and left in the gutter by the West, but I wonder, out of desperation, are many siding with White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis?    I know obviously that the Serbs on this website are pro-Zionist and Jew and shun all the anti-semitism that the Blood and Honor group promotes.  As I said, I am still learning more of Serbia and would like to hear some opinions.  Please tell me what they think of this Serbian Blood and Honor movement.  According to them, they say the Jews are responsible for all the hardships Serbia faces today.

http://www.skrewdriver.net/serb1.html

It would be easier to convince Serbs to join our side as the moderators on Nazi forums generally have multinational sections and the Serbs and Croats always get into fights, a lot of the admins of those forums are partial to keeping the Croats and end up banning Serbs who raise their voice about the issue, I think a lot of them are misguided and directing their hate on a scapegoat.

[4International]

It would be easier to convince Serbs to join our side as the moderators on Nazi forums generally have multinational sections and the Serbs and Croats always get into fights, a lot of the admins of those forums are partial to keeping the Croats and end up banning Serbs who raise their voice about the issue, I think a lot of them are misguided and directing their hate on a scapegoat.

Shalom brother WhiteIsraelite,

I agree that it is a lot easier to convince Serbs to join JTF. The Ustasha Croats are antisemitic Jew hating Nazis who idolize and adore Adolph Hitler because he created the Ustasha [Nazi] state for them in World War 2. The vast majority of Croats today celebrate and glorify this murderous state [see the photos I posted above as proof - 100,000 Croats - the maximum number that can fit into the Croatian stadiums - flock to see the Nazi band "Thompson" led by Croat Ustasha fanatic, Marko Perkovic] where 100,000 Croats give the Nazi salute and sing along with Marko Perkovic's songs praising the Holocaust of Serbs and Jews in the Croatian death camps known as Jasenovac and Stara Gradiska.

Of course our job here at JTF would be a lot easier if zootube would stop banning Chaim's videos where he has exposed all of this Croat Ustasha Nazism. Chaim's brilliant videos discussing this mass Croat support for the Ustasha are constantly flagged by Croats - especially this Croat Nazi piece of garbage calling himself "Marbus":

http://www.youtube.com/Marbus0

He also has a channel here where he attacks Chaim:

http://www.youtube.com/user/JTFSUX

and this is his other channel where he pretends he is from Denmark:

http://www.youtube.com/user/DarkPyramid0

He even brags about it his anti-JTF flagging campaign on another anti-JTF neo-Nazi zootube page run by some David Duke-loving neo-Nazi freak with the user name of "SamanthaTheCat":



"ahhh Jsullvian he was the first victim of my JTF flagging campaign a year ago. Got him suspened from Youtube back when i used to flagg JTF videos."

Notice especially the large letter "U" on the left hand side of his channel page - you can see the "U" [Ustasha] symbol sitting atop the Croat Ustasha flag. Also notice the background image of his channel is that of Croat Nazi Fuehrer, Ante Pavelic!!



The pro-Nazi leftist morons at Peace Now have even favorited Marbus' video falsely calling Chaim is a "terrorist" but without telling us that Marbus is a neo-Nazi Ustasha terrorist admirer himself!! One zootube user bythe name of "USA4Evamore" wrote the following about this Nazi piece of garbage responsible for Chaim's videos being pulled from zootube:

Has anybody noticed that one of the video favorites of Peace Now is this guy Marbus who is a Croatian Nazi Ustasha terrorist admirer?Marbus even has a picture of the Croat Nazi Fuehrer,Ante Pavelic,on his profile as the background image!

Visit pavelic-papers(dot)com.The Croat Ustasha are the oldest European Nazi terrorist group in the world still in existence.They murdered over a Million Serbs,Jews & Gypsies during the Holocaust.The Ustasha are admired by most Croats today as "Croat heroes"!


To All JTF brothers and sisters here who have zootube accounts - It is payback time: flag all of the videos uploaded to zootube by this Nazi piece of garbage going by the zootube user names of "Marbus0",  "JTFSUX" and "DarkPyramid0".

http://www.youtube.com/Marbus0

http://www.youtube.com/user/JTFSUX

http://www.youtube.com/user/DarkPyramid0

[P J C]

Neo Nazi sluts!

[4International]

Comment by JTF brother ProJewCatholic:

"Neo Nazi sluts!"

LOL!  ROFL!  LMAO!

      

[AryehYehudah]

Shalom brother AryehYehudah,

Great reply! I agree that once the people of Israel and Serbia throw out their traitorous leftist leaders and put into power true conservative right-wing leaders, we Jews should forge a formal military alliance with righteous right-wing Serbs and destroy our common Islamofascist and Nazi enemies.

I hope I don't offend my Serbian brothers and sisters here who look to Russia with [false delusions of] hope, but the fact of the matter is that Russia is still run by former communists and a criminal robber-baron monopoly-"capitalist" [i.e., Globalist] oligarchical elite, who over the last 18 years have done very little to help Serbia apart from engage in rhetoric and hollow, empty promises of military assistance. We have seen this terrible betrayal and stabbing of the Serbian people in the back by the Russian political elite time and time again over the last 18 years.

Russia could have smashed every NATO and EU attack against Serbia during the 1990's but deliberately chose not to do so. In fact Russia did the complete opposite by backing every pro-EU/NATO leftist,globalist, traitorous anti-American, anti-Serbian manuever by the Clinton administration. First, by abandoning the Serbian people to their fate in their darkest hour and most critical time of need in the  months leading up to the expulsion of 500,000 Serbs from Croatia and Krajina in 1995. Secondly, during the 3 month NATO bombing of civilian areas in Kosovo-Metohija and Serbia from March to June 1999.

Since Vladimir Putin came to power in 2000, Russia has continued the Yeltsin-era communist policies:  instead of supplying Serbia with the most sophisticated anti-aircraft and surface to surface weapons so Serbia can defend herself, Putin's regime supplies communist Venezuela and Islamofascist Iran with these high-tech weapons instead!

This is a terrible ongoing betrayal of their blood brother Slavic Serbian Orthodox Christian kin which I hope the righteous Serbs here on JTF can agree with me is totally unacceptable behavior by the Russian government. This is NOT the way a true blood-brother ally and friend would behave towards a "little sister" like Serbia in her time of greatest need when she is threatened with annihilation by the Albanian and Bosnian muslim savage beasts in Kosovo-Metohija and Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as  by the Croat Ustasha Nazi beasts in Croatia and occupied Krajina.



I wrote elsewhere on another thread:

If Serbs truly wish to regain their freedom and their sacred religious and cultural heartland they must be prepared to fight and die for it. History has proven time and again that freedom doesn't come cheap. If the EU threatens the Serbs with economic sanctions (the way Bush Snr did in 1992 via the UN) or if the EU threatens a military attack against Serbia via NATO, the Serbs should immediately threaten to annihilate all of the Albanian muslims in Kosovo and all of the Bosnian muslims in Bosnia.

If Washington decides to again betray the Serbs - the way Washington did during the 1990's under those two swines Bill and Hillary Clinton - and back the fascist-socialist EU in any kind of blackmail by making Clinton-esque economic or military threats against the Serbs (a la March,1999) for daring to reclaim their Serbian dignity, honor and national sovereignty - then Serbia should immediately launch a blitzkrieg style military campaign to expel all EU/NATO troops, retake all of Kosovo-Metohija and expel all the Albanian muslims and Bosnian muslims from Serb-land once and for all.

Yes, this will entail many civilian and military deaths but this is the only way to deal with muslim Nazi scum who commit beheadings of "infidels" for fun.

After kicking out the traitorous, evil pro-EU regime of Boris Tadic [who recently said that "Serbs should forget the Holocaust in WW2 Ustasha Croatia"], Serbia should build fast breeder nuclear reactors and produce several hundred nuclear warheads with sophisticated intercontinental or at least intermediate range ballistic missile delivery systems capable of defeating any kind of anti-missile defense system that the Croats, Albanian and Bosnian muslims could possibly obtain from any source. That way, in the event of a large scale regional or European war, the Serbs would not have to fear a multiple attack by the Ustasha Croats, Bosnian and Albanian Islamofascists on several fronts as happened during the Holocaust from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars of the 1990's.

Our experiences as Jews since the founding of the Holy Jewish homeland of Eretz Yisrael in 1948, show us that the only thing these muslim savage beasts understand and respect is OVERWHELMING MILITARY FORCE.

Likewise, our allies - the righteous Gentile Serbs inside and outside Serbia's borders -  must also realize, from their bitter experiences during the Holocaust in Croatia and Bosnia from 1941-1945 and again during the anti-Serbian genocidal wars waged against Serbs during the 1990's [eg the mass beheadings,throat cutting and bodily dismemberment of Serbian men,women and children in Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia], that the only thing these murderous Croat Ustasha, Albanian KLA and Bosnian SDA muslim Nazi beasts understand and respect is sheer OVERWHELMING BRUTE  FORCE. If the chips are down and worse comes to worst in a major European or World War, then clearly survival instincts of self-defense demand that in order to prevent another repeat of the 1941-1945 Holocaust of Jews and Serbs we need to use OVERWHELMING BRUTE FORCE in the form of Nuclear annihilation of these murderous savage Nazi beasts in a pre-emptive strike against their bases of operation, BEFORE these savage beasts try to annihilate us -  Jews and Serbs - with the very same type of weapons. A reminder of what awaits us if Israel, America and Serbia fail to act against these beasts before it is too late:

Shalom Joshua,
You really said it all Joshua!!! Yes, Russia with its false promises and hidden agenda will use and exploit the poor Serbians in their time of dire need.  Jews and Serbians must unite and we must stay away from the oligarchs who are trying to manipulate us so they can carry out their heinous crimes and try to cripple the spirits of G-d's people.  Well, you said so much , I cannot even comment much..  What you wrote here is a deep explanation, beyond what I ccould have even done, of what I was telling Serbians on here from the beginning.  Good work.   Yes, I know I also reproached the Russian Orthodox church, but not because I think the people themselves are bad, but rather they work based on an aristocracy in connection with the government, promoting a hidden agenda and masking their atrocities with holy faces.  There is something  very evil and dark conjuring in the shadows and most people are blind to the fact.  I was just watching how Jews were falling over and drooling when Barack Hussein said he really loves him.  He really, really, really, really loves them,  We Jews are gullible like some Serbians, soon as someone pats us on our back and says they are our friend, we just fall head over heels in love and respect to them.  Little can we see how the same person sticks a knife in our back when we are most vulnerable or when we let our guard down.  As far neo-nazism, it is a disease of not only uneducated whites; this disease has infiltrated to highest people of society; hence ,  6,000,000 dead Jews later, we have seen its effects.  This disease will not stop without a vaccine; the vaccine is conquest and destruction.  A virus does not become good, it must be eradicated through means of intervention.  When we fail to vaccinate our people from the diseases of nazism and Islam, the disease will attack us; therefore, our white blood cells do not lay dormant.  Our own bodies know biologically are programmed to fight off an intruder; but us humans for some reason or programmed to give refuge and allow an intruder to devastate us.  Ignorance and lack of knowledge are plaguging the world.

Shalom Dalmacija,
Ton down on your insults of me, calling me a nazi and such.   Lets have a conversation with the admins if you need to result to such punative slanders.  We shall see if I am truly a nazi.  My relatives suffer great persecution from nazis and fascists, so if you want a fight with a Jewish man, calling him a nazi is the way to go.  I, myself will avoid such a fight, as I am person with a rational mind and I don't need to resort to engaging in scuffles with irrational people.   I was presenting an important issue that many others seem to recognize and not ignore.  You have made many comments on this site contrary to the well-being of both Jews, Americans and Serbian people.  I respect Serbia needs our support greatly, but don't resort to making childish insults against me and making false claims of me being a nazi (which I am not) and you being a Jew (which you are not).  Let me tell you, any country that allows neo nazis to do nazi salutes in the open at your ancient holy sites is a country I condemn.  This is a country that I worry about, so since your country allows it, I will speak out against it.  I do respect that your country and people, but why attack me.  If Neo-Nazis were doing nazi salutes at Jewish synagogues in Israel, I would also present the cause there as well.  I am not biased at all; you would be amazed how you misinterpret me.

I did say I am learning more about Serbia.  When I originally made comments denouncing its church and people, I knew nothing of your country or church.  You want to go study statistics, you will see Jews are treated like dogs in 90% of Eastern European countries and much of the foul treatment Jews face is sponsored by the local churches, including Catholic and Orthodox.  However, Orthodox are more traditional and traditions are not always good .  Once again, I gave great respect to Serbian Orthodox church for not partaking in the crimes that other Orthodox churches have done against Jews in Eastern EUrope.  Let me start by giving my respect to your Orthodox church in Serbia and I would be glad to even come visit one of your churches and meet your priests.  I have visited several churches.   Yes, I even attempted to visit Russian Orthodox Church, but I did not pursue as I was insulted for wearing Star of David necklace and was told my relatives were Christ killers.  I know there is good and bad people all over the world.  It was very wrong for me to judge every Orthodox Church the same,  I apologize for that. 

Now, I hope people can see the truth in what I was writing, and the Serbians, like Dalmacija, should not feel so superior as to beat down any form of concern or criticism of what is happening in their country.  Us Jews constantly beat down and criticize Israel; since you are on a Jewish site and sponsored and respected, I think you would open to such, as well.

Shalom

[DALMACIJA]

AryehYehudah,

Do not say that I was calling you a Nazi or a National Socialist.
I was only saying that your behavior in the past towards the Orthodox Church – in general – and Orthodoxy was a Nazi way of behaving.

That does not automatically say that you are a 100% convinced Nazi.
Neither does this mean that you have fascist intentions also towards other people. I said that your behavior towards Orthodoxy and the Orthodoxy countries was a Nazi oriented behavior.

After everything what you have said in the past it is very disrespectful to open a topic about “Serbian” Nazis.  You are not the right person to open such a topic.
This is pure disrespectful!
You come to an Serbian subforum and start to attack Orthodox Churches and nations and then you open this kind of topic. You have appologized to us(than you for that), but that does not justify to open such a topic after all you have done.

You do not know what it means being a Serb.
You should first inform your self about Serbs, Serbian history and tradition – before you start like this.

A Serbs is somebody who belongs to the Serbian Orthodox Church.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is very clarify about this one.
The Serbian nationality is only for those who are Orthodox believers.   
All others who have accepted Roman Catholicism or Islam, have also lost their Serbian  nationality as well as their religion....

Look some Serbs do not agree with this policy. They claim that even if a Serb decides, on purpose or under certain circumstances, leave Orthodoxy he must not lose also his nationality. Otherwise, he will automatically become a Croat or something else.
That’s also a good point.

But I agree with the statement of the Serbian Orthodox church.
There is no such thing as a non Orthodox Serb. You are only a Serb if you are Orthodox.
That means that Orthodoxy has far more value than the Serbian nationality.
With out Orthodoxy we are not Serbs anymore.

Communism and Nazism are theories which were established in the West – by Western ideologists. These theories both condemn Orthodoxy. There were even serious atrocities committed against Serbian and Russian people in the name of these theories. Nazism and communism are an Excuse to justify the prosecution against Orthodox people for example.

There is no such think as a Serbian Nazi or communist.
These people are only Serbs by name – on paper. There is nothing Serbian about them.
We simply, consider these people as fallen Serbs. The same with Croats and Bosnians. They have both accepted the religion of our conquerors – since that moment they have stopped being Serbian. But we Orthodox Serbs are still willing to give them a chance to return to their original faith and to restore the fault of their fore fathers.
Croats and Bosnians can not be converted into Orthodoxy, they can only return to Orthodoxy - like Emir Kosturica (a former Muslim Serb (Bosnian)) is saying.

You can not be a Nazi and a Serb together.
You can not serve G-d and mammon in the same time. 

[4International]

AryehYehudah,

Do not say that I was calling you a Nazi or a National Socialist.
I was only saying that your behavior in the past towards the Orthodox Church – in general – and Orthodoxy was a Nazi way of behaving.

That does not automatically say that you are a 100% convinced Nazi.
Neither does this mean that you have fascist intentions also towards other people. I said that your behavior towards Orthodoxy and the Orthodoxy countries was a Nazi oriented behavior.

After everything what you have said in the past it is very disrespectful to open a topic about “Serbian” Nazis.  You are not the right person to open such a topic.
This is pure disrespectful!
You come to an Serbian subforum and start to attack Orthodox Churches and nations and then you open this kind of topic. You have appologized to us(than you for that), but that does not justify to open such a topic after all you have done.

You do not know what it means being a Serb.
You should first inform your self about Serbs, Serbian history and tradition – before you start like this.

A Serbs is somebody who belongs to the Serbian Orthodox Church.
The Serbian Orthodox Church is very clarify about this one.
The Serbian nationality is only for those who are Orthodox believers.   
All others who have accepted Roman Catholicism or Islam, have also lost their Serbian  nationality as well their religion....

Look some Serbs do not agree with this policy. They claim that even if a Serb decides, on purpose or under certain circumstances, leave Orthodoxy he must not lose also his nationality. Otherwise, he will automatically become a Croat or something else.
That’s also a good point.

But I agree with the statement of the Serbian Orthodox church.
There is no such thing as a non Orthodox Serb. You are only a Serb if you are Orthodox.
That means that Orthodoxy has far more value than the Serbian nationality.
With out Orthodoxy we are not Serbs anymore.

Communism and Nazism are theories which were established in the West – by Western ideologists. These theories both condemn Orthodoxy. There were even serious atrocities committed against Serbian and Russian people in the name of these theories. Nazism and communism are an Excuse to justify the prosecution against Orthodox people for example.

There is no such think as a Serbian Nazi or communist.
These people are only Serbs by name – on paper. There is nothing Serbian about them.
We simply, consider these people as fallen Serbs. The same with Croats and Bosnians. They have both accepted the religion of our conquerors – since that moment they have stopped being Serbian. But we Orthodox Serbs are still willing to give them a chance to return to their original faith and to restore the fault of their fore fathers.
Croats and Bosnians can not be converted into Orthodoxy, they can only return to Orthodoxy - like Emir Kosturica (a former Muslim Serb (Bosnian)) is saying.

You can not be a Nazi and a Serb together.
You can not serve G-d and mammon in the same time. 

Shalom brother Dalmacija,

you are to be commended for such a thoughtful, courteous, and deeply informative response to brother AryehYehudah - clarifying what you were saying in your previous reply. I know I may almost sound like a JTF moderator when I say this: I am very, very proud of the maturity, courtesy and deep respect both of you have shown to each other on the JTF forum today in explaining each other's view points. I am immensely proud of both of you!

Mazal Tov!!

 

[DALMACIJA]

You want to go study statistics, you will see Jews are treated like dogs in 90% of Eastern European countries and much of the foul treatment Jews face is sponsored by the local churches, including Catholic and Orthodox. 

Who has written these statistics?

Do you really believe that local Orthodox churches participated in the prosecution against Jews in Russia? I have never heard such a think and I do not think that all Jews will agree with this. To claim that the authorities of Tsarist Russia had anti Semitic laws or propaganda is not normal and in struggle with historical facts.
Anti Semitism = to prosecute Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.

Do you really think that the authorities of Tsarist Russia went door to door to clloect Jewish people in order to prosecute them? Thats rudiculous man!

Tsarist Russia was an Orthodox state whose foundation was based on Orthodox laws.
In Orthodoxy many Jewish prophets of the oldd Testament were ethnically Jews.
To say that Orthodoxy hates Jews or has a problem with Jews is rediculous and wrong.

In contradcition to you, we Orthodox people do not hate other people.
We have no problems with Muslims, Jews or Catholcis or with other non Orthodox people. Like real Christians we consider all people as creations of G-d and our brothers by Adam.

   Let me start by giving my respect to your Orthodox church in Serbia and I would be glad to even come visit one of your churches and meet your priests.  I have visited several churches.   

You can talk to me I am also an Orthodox Serb.
Of course you are welcome in Serbian Church no problem.
We have very good experiences with Jews who visit our Churches...

    Yes, I even attempted to visit Russian Orthodox Church, but I did not pursue as I was insulted for wearing Star of David necklace and was told my relatives were Christ killers.

Come brother,
If I went to a synagogue wearing a big Orthodox cross.... What kind of impression would I leave? What will they say to me. They will also say something about the sign of my religion. And I will give them right. You must know where you can wear those sings and where not...

Use your mind brother....  In Churches you have people and people sometimes say ridiculous thinks... Do not take it to personally!

Why were you linking these insults to the Orthodox teachings?

Do I complain about the insults which were addressed to some Orthodox priests in Jerusalem by certain people over there?

Do you hear me complain about that?
Of course not... Where you have people you always have trouble!

  I know there is good and bad people all over the world.  It was very wrong for me to judge every Orthodox Church the same,  I apologize for that. 

Oke thank you... I appreciate this.

[AryehYehudah]

Who has written these statistics?

Do you really believe that local Orthodox churches participated in the prosecution against Jews in Russia? I have never heard such a think and I do not think that all Jews will agree with this. To claim that the authorities of Tsarist Russia had anti Semitic laws or propaganda is not normal and in struggle with historical facts.
Anti Semitism = to prosecute Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.

Do you really think that the authorities of Tsarist Russia went door to door to clloect Jewish people in order to prosecute them? Thats rudiculous man!

No not ridiculous, absolutely did happen, read your history book!

How would you know are you a Jew?  Just like I don't know what it means to be a Serb, you do not know what it means to be a Jew.  How do you know how we were treated in Russia?  While your people were living peaceful life in your slavic nations, attending church, socializing in your cities, we were having our villages burned, women raped, even children butchered in the name of the Orthodox church of Russsia.  Did you think any Jews were allowed in Moscow or Kiev?  I bet there was plenty of Serbas allowed to live there.  We were the "Christ Killers"!  What other institution but a church could coin the term, "Christ Killer".  I don't think you know so much of Jewish history in Eastern EUrope, it shows by the some of your ignorant statments you make about us.  YOu know plenty about Serbian history and suffering of Serbs in Europe; that I definately see.  Do the Jews on the website a favor and stop bashing us when we question intentions of Serbs and be open to conversation like the other Serbians I have talked to who were more respectable and gave me better answer than your insults of me.   I am educating myself about Serbia, so stop attacking me when I first came onto the site and new very little of your people.  Go do us Jews a favor and study some about the oppression of our people in eastern Europe.  Really, I don't know why people here don't care when you say such statements that us Jews never suffered at the hands of Orthodox Christians or in Eastern Europe is outrageous.  You openly criticize Catholics for their atrocities they committed against Jews, you think Orthodox did not participate?  We were brutalized! Wake up Dalamacija and smell the truth.  Why was Serbia bombed?  Because people were profoundly ignorant; rejecting to hear the truth of the situation.  Many would cry day and night for the Albanians, yet refuse to look at the history and suffering of Serbs.  You are doing the same to us Jews by denying our history in favor of your religious comrades.

Come brother,
If I went to a synagogue wearing a big Orthodox cross.... What kind of impression would I leave? What will they say to me. They will also say something about the sign of my religion. And I will give them right. You must know where you can wear those sings and where not...

Good point, yet Russia has some very large churches in Israel with its giant crosses reaching out to heaven.  Many Orthodox prietss go to Western Wall with crosses exposed.  I suppose we are reather accepting, maybe we shouldnot be.  Nonetheless, the Star of David was a small necklace, not a giant huge star of David on my head.  Nobody could see it.  Its not like an Orthodox priest who has a giant cross hanging from his neck.  However, since we ould respect him as a religious elder and if he walked into a synaogogue to observe, I do no think they would force him to hide his religious emblems.  Then again, it depends on synagogue to synagogue.  You misunderstand me anyhow.  They did not want me to hide my Star for the church, NO!  They said my Star of David was evil and that I should permanently remove it!  I would have no problem removing it for a church meeting if it bothered them there.  But they were ridiculing my faith, which I hate!  If a Christian wears a cross and it brings him closer to G-d, I will not insult him and call him a wood worshipper or an idol worshipper.  SOme Jews do that and we should stop them for their bad behavior. 

Use your mind brother....  In Churches you have people and people sometimes say ridiculous thinks... Do not take it to personally!

Why were you linking these insults to the Orthodox teachings?

Do I complain about the insults which were addressed to some Orthodox priests in Jerusalem by certain people over there?

Do you hear me complain about that?
Of course not... Where you have people you always have trouble!

Well, sad to say many Orthodox priests have been known to also send insults out to the Jewish people even in their own land!   Yes,  I reject any hatred towards any people of faith.  However, Russian priests live very nicely with huge amount of land that is suppose to be for Jews.  Many of them openly welcome Palestinainas and have voiced for Palestinain rights.  They even threw out the head of the Greek Orthodox Church from Israel.  He rebuilt his church in West Bank with his new "Palestinia-n" friends.  He was calling for the destruction of Israel and claim it was Arab land, Jews did not belong there.  That was real nice that Israel help fund his church and gave him a nice place to stay and look how he repaid us.

Tsarist Russia was an Orthodox state whose foundation was based on Orthodox laws.
In Orthodoxy many Jewish prophets of the oldd Testament were ethnically Jews.
To say that Orthodoxy hates Jews or has a problem with Jews is rediculous and wrong.

Yes, in Bible, Jews are looked on highly.  Well, that is because Jews (or people of Hebraic ancestory) wrote most of the bible, including New T-estament.  However, as you know Orthodox churches are not all same.  Like Catholics, many believe the bible is just one book of many.  Many Christians in Russia did not care about that the all the prophets were Israelites, even Jesus was born from the tribe of Judah.  They just focused on the poorly translated text that spoke of a group of rogue Pharisees persecuted and murdered their G-d.  They don't read the bible the way it is written.  Even Hitler made some claim about Jesus being a Celtic who was oppresed by evil Jewish slave masters.  I know what is written in the bible, that doesn't mean people interpret it that way.  The Catholics in Spain read the bible too and acknowledge all the prophets were ethnic Israelites.  Yet, it did not stop the Spanish INquisition.  Nor did it stop the slaughter of the JEws in the Crusades, who were viewed as heretics and, of course, "Christ Killers".  Hate to break the news, but many "FALSE" CHristians were responsible for death of millions of Jews.   

Yes you did call me a nazi, go read above.  You got some nerve too..  This is a Jewish website (at least I think it is) and I know you think its a Serbian website, but you forget this website main cause is to help save Jews and defend their own people, not Serbians.  You do have Serbian websites.  I bet if I as a Jew, would go onto a Serbian site and say some of the things about Serbs you say to me, I would not last long.  Once again, many of us Jews are self-hating and we spoil our allies.  Many of our allies take advantage of us, as you can see.   A good example, George Wahabi Bush, our old ally, and now the one who is preaching for us to give Golan to the Syrian Nazis.

YOu attack me from what I said in the past.  Perhaps I should attack some of your  statements defending the Tzar, Chavez, Castro, Ahmedinejab, and, of course, Putin.  I do not like scuffling with you..  However, if I see pictures of neo-nazis do nazi salute with a serbian flag hanging from your Orthodox churches, your damn right I will post it on a Jewish website and question you about it.  DOn't behave like a fascist and try to force me to silence myself. Please, don't go making orders about who is qualified to be concerned about nazism in Serbia and who is not.  I am a Jew, I am just as qualified as you to be concerned about this and you should remember that.   I don't see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Serbs, but I see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Jews and most of the world's anger is against Jews, not Serbians.  YOu have never been the world's scapegoat, my people have.  Also, these neo-nazi, blood and honor people, are trying to promote a teaching that Jews were responsible for the bombings in Kosovo.  I will ask Serbs to speak about it and if you refuse you are just breeding the censorship and ignorance which is how anti-semitism spawns and proliferates amongst the European people.  If Jews are waving Anti-Serbian flags or salutes in Yerushalayim, I will post it on here too!


DO ME A FAVOR: Can you visit this website:  www.jewishvirtuallibrary.com   I WILL SEND YOU THIS LINK AS A PERSONAL MESSAGE.  I would like you to read this website of the history of our people.  Please study it.  Before you make any more rebukes against me and painting a fantasy picture of the nice life us Jews had in Eastern Europe; go read the facts, which your russian-inspired history books will not tell you.  Hear the history of the Jews, from a Jewish perspective.

The History of Jews in Russia and relation of Church and Government.   (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html

The History of Jews in Ukraine  (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/ukraine.html

The History of Jews in Belarus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Belarus.html

The History of Jews in Moldova
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/moldova.html

The History of Jews in Romania
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/romania.html

The History of Jews in Bulgaria
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/bulgaria.html

The History of Jews in Greece
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Greece.html

Genocide of Jews and Serbians in Kosovo, by Muslim Albanians and their Nazi Allies
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Kosovo.html

[DALMACIJA]

AryehYehudah,

Thanks for the information.

I am reading the sources.

Let me remind you that you are proving to me information which is written by Western institutions.

I will contact some Russians and arrange information from the Russian point of view reagarding this subject.

[SerbChicago]

Guys stop it already please.

[Jasmina]

They will stop! I know that!

[4International]

Who has written these statistics?

Do you really believe that local Orthodox churches participated in the prosecution against Jews in Russia? I have never heard such a think and I do not think that all Jews will agree with this. To claim that the authorities of Tsarist Russia had anti Semitic laws or propaganda is not normal and in struggle with historical facts.
Anti Semitism = to prosecute Jews because of their ethnicity or religion.

Do you really think that the authorities of Tsarist Russia went door to door to clloect Jewish people in order to prosecute them? Thats rudiculous man!

No not ridiculous, absolutely did happen, read your history book!

How would you know are you a Jew?  Just like I don't know what it means to be a Serb, you do not know what it means to be a Jew.  How do you know how we were treated in Russia?  While your people were living peaceful life in your slavic nations, attending church, socializing in your cities, we were having our villages burned, women raped, even children butchered in the name of the Orthodox church of Russsia.  Did you think any Jews were allowed in Moscow or Kiev?  I bet there was plenty of Serbas allowed to live there.  We were the "Christ Killers"!  What other institution but a church could coin the term, "Christ Killer".  I don't think you know so much of Jewish history in Eastern EUrope, it shows by the some of your ignorant statments you make about us.  YOu know plenty about Serbian history and suffering of Serbs in Europe; that I definately see.  Do the Jews on the website a favor and stop bashing us when we question intentions of Serbs and be open to conversation like the other Serbians I have talked to who were more respectable and gave me better answer than your insults of me.   I am educating myself about Serbia, so stop attacking me when I first came onto the site and new very little of your people.  Go do us Jews a favor and study some about the oppression of our people in eastern Europe.  Really, I don't know why people here don't care when you say such statements that us Jews never suffered at the hands of Orthodox Christians or in Eastern Europe is outrageous.  You openly criticize Catholics for their atrocities they committed against Jews, you think Orthodox did not participate?  We were brutalized! Wake up Dalamacija and smell the truth.  Why was Serbia bombed?  Because people were profoundly ignorant; rejecting to hear the truth of the situation.  Many would cry day and night for the Albanians, yet refuse to look at the history and suffering of Serbs.  You are doing the same to us Jews by denying our history in favor of your religious comrades.

Come brother,
If I went to a synagogue wearing a big Orthodox cross.... What kind of impression would I leave? What will they say to me. They will also say something about the sign of my religion. And I will give them right. You must know where you can wear those sings and where not...

Good point, yet Russia has some very large churches in Israel with its giant crosses reaching out to heaven.  Many Orthodox prietss go to Western Wall with crosses exposed.  I suppose we are reather accepting, maybe we shouldnot be.  Nonetheless, the Star of David was a small necklace, not a giant huge star of David on my head.  Nobody could see it.  Its not like an Orthodox priest who has a giant cross hanging from his neck.  However, since we ould respect him as a religious elder and if he walked into a synaogogue to observe, I do no think they would force him to hide his religious emblems.  Then again, it depends on synagogue to synagogue.  You misunderstand me anyhow.  They did not want me to hide my Star for the church, NO!  They said my Star of David was evil and that I should permanently remove it!  I would have no problem removing it for a church meeting if it bothered them there.  But they were ridiculing my faith, which I hate!  If a Christian wears a cross and it brings him closer to G-d, I will not insult him and call him a wood worshipper or an idol worshipper.  SOme Jews do that and we should stop them for their bad behavior. 

Use your mind brother....  In Churches you have people and people sometimes say ridiculous thinks... Do not take it to personally!

Why were you linking these insults to the Orthodox teachings?

Do I complain about the insults which were addressed to some Orthodox priests in Jerusalem by certain people over there?

Do you hear me complain about that?
Of course not... Where you have people you always have trouble!

Well, sad to say many Orthodox priests have been known to also send insults out to the Jewish people even in their own land!   Yes,  I reject any hatred towards any people of faith.  However, Russian priests live very nicely with huge amount of land that is suppose to be for Jews.  Many of them openly welcome Palestinainas and have voiced for Palestinain rights.  They even threw out the head of the Greek Orthodox Church from Israel.  He rebuilt his church in West Bank with his new "Palestinia-n" friends.  He was calling for the destruction of Israel and claim it was Arab land, Jews did not belong there.  That was real nice that Israel help fund his church and gave him a nice place to stay and look how he repaid us.

Tsarist Russia was an Orthodox state whose foundation was based on Orthodox laws.
In Orthodoxy many Jewish prophets of the oldd Testament were ethnically Jews.
To say that Orthodoxy hates Jews or has a problem with Jews is rediculous and wrong.

Yes, in Bible, Jews are looked on highly.  Well, that is because Jews (or people of Hebraic ancestory) wrote most of the bible, including New T-estament.  However, as you know Orthodox churches are not all same.  Like Catholics, many believe the bible is just one book of many.  Many Christians in Russia did not care about that the all the prophets were Israelites, even Jesus was born from the tribe of Judah.  They just focused on the poorly translated text that spoke of a group of rogue Pharisees persecuted and murdered their G-d.  They don't read the bible the way it is written.  Even Hitler made some claim about Jesus being a Celtic who was oppresed by evil Jewish slave masters.  I know what is written in the bible, that doesn't mean people interpret it that way.  The Catholics in Spain read the bible too and acknowledge all the prophets were ethnic Israelites.  Yet, it did not stop the Spanish INquisition.  Nor did it stop the slaughter of the JEws in the Crusades, who were viewed as heretics and, of course, "Christ Killers".  Hate to break the news, but many "FALSE" CHristians were responsible for death of millions of Jews.   

Yes you did call me a nazi, go read above.  You got some nerve too..  This is a Jewish website (at least I think it is) and I know you think its a Serbian website, but you forget this website main cause is to help save Jews and defend their own people, not Serbians.  You do have Serbian websites.  I bet if I as a Jew, would go onto a Serbian site and say some of the things about Serbs you say to me, I would not last long.  Once again, many of us Jews are self-hating and we spoil our allies.  Many of our allies take advantage of us, as you can see.   A good example, George Wahabi Bush, our old ally, and now the one who is preaching for us to give Golan to the Syrian Nazis.

YOu attack me from what I said in the past.  Perhaps I should attack some of your  statements defending the Tzar, Chavez, Castro, Ahmedinejab, and, of course, Putin.  I do not like scuffling with you..  However, if I see pictures of neo-nazis do nazi salute with a serbian flag hanging from your Orthodox churches, your damn right I will post it on a Jewish website and question you about it.  DOn't behave like a fascist and try to force me to silence myself. Please, don't go making orders about who is qualified to be concerned about nazism in Serbia and who is not.  I am a Jew, I am just as qualified than you to be concerned about this and you should remember that.   I don't see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Serbs, but I see neo-nazis calling for the death of the Jews and most of the world's anger is against Jews, not Serbians.  YOu have never been the world's scapegoat, my people have.  Also, these neo-nazi, blood and honor people, are trying to promote a teaching that Jews were responsible for the bombings in Kosovo.  I will ask Serbs to speak about it and if you refuse you are just breeding the censorship and ignorance which is how anti-semitism spawns and proliferates amongst the European people.  If Jews are waving Anti-Serbian flags or salutes in Yerushalayim, I will post it on here too!


DO ME A FAVOR: Can you visit this website:  www.jewishvirtuallibrary.com   I WILL SEND YOU THIS LINK AS A PERSONAL MESSAGE.  I would like you to read this website of the history of our people.  Please study it.  Before you make any more rebukes against me and painting a fantasy picture of the nice life us Jews had in Eastern Europe; go read the facts, which your russian-inspired history books will not tell you.  Here the history of the Jews, from a Jewish perspective.

The History of Jews in Russia and relation of Church and Government.   (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html

The History of Jews in Ukraine  (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/ukraine.html

The History of Jews in Belarus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Belarus.html

The History of Jews in Moldova
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/moldova.html

The History of Jews in Romania
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/romania.html

The History of Jews in Bulgaria
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/bulgaria.html

The History of Jews in Greece
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Greece.html

Genocide of Jews and Serbians in Kosovo, by Muslim Albanians and their Nazi Allies
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Kosovo.html

Shalom everyone,

What an awesome reply, brother AryehYehudah!

This is why I am so proud to be a member of JTF and a contributor to this forum. Like I said earlier, I really admire the way brother AryehYehudah and Dalmacija are being civil, courteous, and respecting each other in this debate. None of us can ever stop learning and it is fantastic that we can see a Jew and a Serb communicate ideas in a mutually respectful and mutually beneficial way on this forum.

I think what has come out clearly in this debate is that - as brother AryehYehudah has already stated - not all Orthodox countries are the same, just as not all Roman Catholic countries are the same [case in point - Ustasha Nazi Croatia is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic].There are of course many,many good, decent and righteous Orthodox Chrsitians and Roman Catholics who respect the Jews and Israel, just as there are some bad Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics who hate the Jews and Israel.

The fact of the matter is that the Serbian Orthodox church and Serbia [and historically Serbian lands in Bosnia, Krajina and Croatia] respect the Jews as proven throughout history - especially Serbian Orthodox Christian believers' heroic actions during the Shoah [Holocaust]. Interestingly enough the Serbian people themselves throughout modern history have always referred to Jews in Serbia as "brother and sister Serbs of the Jewish Mosaic faith."

I think this explains the actions of the overwhelming majority of Serbs during World War 2 in defying Hitler when Nazism and Fascism appeared unstoppable, refusing European antisemitism and risking their own lives in hiding and saving many thousands of Jews in Serbia and elsewhere in Yugoslavia during the Holocaust.

As brother AryehYehudah has already pointed out, he is still learning much about the history of Serbs, Serbia and her Serbian Orthodox Christian church just as Dalmacija is also learning about the history of Jews in Russia, Ukraine and other Orthodox countries in Eastern Europe.

At the risk of sounding like a JTF moderator again, I want to thank brother AryehYehudah and brother Dalmacija once again for keeping the debate civil and mutually respectful so that all of us here can learn something new about the history of the Jewish and Serbian people in Europe.


Mazal Tov!

 

[DALMACIJA]

The History of Jews in Russia and relation of Church and Government.   (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/russia.html

The History of Jews in Ukraine  (Half of my Heritage)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/ukraine.html

The History of Jews in Belarus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Belarus.html

The History of Jews in Moldova
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/moldova.html

The History of Jews in Romania
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/romania.html

The History of Jews in Bulgaria
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/bulgaria.html

The History of Jews in Greece
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Greece.html

Genocide of Jews and Serbians in Kosovo, by Muslim Albanians and their Nazi Allies
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Kosovo.html

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exaple - this is what your sources are writing:
Because of blatant Serbian anti-Semitism, the Jewish population in the area decreased each year. In 1912, 5,000 Jews remained in Serbia.

This source talks about:
BLATANT SERBIAN ANTI-SEMITISM ? ? ? ?
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/serbia.html

liars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.,............

This anti Orthodox propaganda does not only include false propaganda against Orthodox Tsarist Russia but also against Orthodox Serbia...

I am reading this side and this side is full of anti- Serbian and anti Orthodox propaganda...

This site is declaring that Milos Obrenovic and other Serbian royal leaders were anti Semites? Pure anti Orthodox and Western propaganda....

If you believe this kind of information than you have really lost every sence for reality..

Serbia was one of the most tolerant countries to the Jews?
Is this what we deserve?

What a shame!
Do not forgot that many Jewish US lobbysts had lobbied for the NATO bombing campaign against Serbia. Even during the civil wars in Croatia and Bosnia Jews of influence supported the Croatian Muslim agression against Serbia.

I think that these Jewish lobbysts like Madeline Albight and many others are far more dangerous to the Serbs, than the so called Serbian Nazis are to the Jews!

AryehYehudah

I will confront you with video materials of two US Jewish gentlemans who, during a meeting, in Kosovo had promised to the Albanian majority in 1988 that they will have their own sovereignty.

[AryehYehudah]

OK, you are crying that the Jewish Virtual Library is a lying website.  I never read what they wrote about Serbia.  I question how tolerant Serbians were to Jews over 1000s of years.  All of Europe hated us and I don't see how Serbians, being apart of Orthodox Christian empire, tolerated the Jews in their land, when every other country banned us and treated as inferior.  I really am not aware of your history over 1000 years.  I know the Jews lived well in Kosovo with their Serbian counterparts. 

For you to say this is propaganda against Tsarist Russia is bullsh*t ..  I will go and research and post other links about the history of Jews  in Tsarist Russia.   The piece of sh*t the Tsar murderd many of my relatives and had us fleeing for our lives.  My grandmother watched women in her village raped by the Tsar's soldiers.  We had to flee Russia and its Orthodox chuch as they were massacring us.  Many Jews joined the Red Army and became Communist because the Christians were brutalizing them and treating them like dogs.  We were being forced to assimilate as Christians and give up our culture and identity or face persecution or death.  Had your slavic brothers not have massacred us and treated us so bad, there would not be so many left-wing Jews like ALbright today.  You can thank yourself for this.  However, the Communists later turned on Jews and forced them also to leave their religion behind.  Doesn't seem like we ever had any tolerance or peace in our existence.  You Serbians never suffered so much over the years.  We have not had a country or home for 1000s of years.  As for how Serbia treated the Jews 1000 years ago, that is debatable.  Anti-semtism was rampant in every country in Europe in ancient times.  How can you verify the treatment of Jews over 1000 years ago in your country?  Are you telling me Jews were not banned in Serbia from being traders back in those times?  Can you find me non-Serbian or non-Russian references backing up this claim?    I think, however, Jews have lived better in Serbia and Kosovo in recent years, especially during WWII, than in other countries in EUrope.

I suggest you watch the movie called Fiddler on the Roof, for some basic education.  You can watch as the Orthodox Church closes its eyes when the Russians go and burn the village, ransack our synagogue.  Of course the movie paints a much prettier picture than the truth.  DUring the pogroms, they would murder men women and children and even rape our women.  My mother has some goyish Russian features thanks to so-called Christian soldiers using the women as sex slaves.  The Jew is known in RUssia to this day as "Christ Killer".  Are you telling me the Church had nothing to do with this term?    DOn't worry Dalmacija, there is plenty of sources beyond Jewish Virtual Libray that talks about the oppressive policies of Tsarist Russia against Jews.  You are fighting a losing battle on JTF to deny our suffering in Tsarist RUssia; its really silly, actually.   In my opinion, and Jews who denies the suffering we had in Tsarist Russia or in any other European nation, is a "Self-Hating Jew".  That type of Jew deserves what is coming to him.  Jewish Virtual Library are composed by various authors, some may be a bit biased in views; nonetheless, many Jewish People find it good source of information.

You saying that the people in Russia , its government and church did not sponsor pogroms?  Perhaps I will just say that USA and Albanians never did any wrong to Serbia.  That is just Serbian propaganda!