JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: George on November 05, 2008, 09:04:55 PM
-
Any explanations why Jews are so leftist?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p2 (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p2)
-
WOW!!! Thats horrible. But Id like to see that number for Religious Jews.
-
Any explanations why Jews are so leftist?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p2 (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p2)
I know exactly why Jews are leftists. It's a long explanation but perfectly explains why Marxism is a Jewish phenomenon, resulting from centuries of persecution. I should write a paper about it since people, including Jews themselves, don't understand why they're leftists.
-
Jews vote for democrats because they are leftists first, and Jews a distant 8'th.
-
Jews vote for democrats because they are leftists first, and Jews a distant 8'th.
Exactly. They're JINO (Jews in name only.) 80% of frum Yidden voted for McCain!
-
Any explanations why Jews are so leftist?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p2 (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=USP00p2)
I think we've all seen lots of attempts to explain this insanity.
Who knows what the reasons might be ?
One can go insane trying to understand insanity.
The Rav would often say that as a people, Jews were in dire need of a 'national couch'.
How such an intellectually gifted people can be so devoid of a self-preservation instinct is beyond belief, and quite possibly beyond rational explanation.
-
How such an intellectually gifted people can be so devoid of a self-preservation instinct is beyond belief, and quite possibly beyond rational explanation.
Because if he doesn't believe the Torah, then the intellectual will see no reason to be jewish. So they would remove what they see as artificial boundaries. Not to marry non-jews e.t.c.
But I would be interested to see Sparky's explanation on why it is that many jews are leftist.
-
I think this marxist attitude is mainly a problem of reformed and liberal Jews.
Reformed Judaism is imo a sort of Christianity without Jesus. Basically reformed Jews have the same views on theological issues than Christians. The most important point that divides Christians as well as reformed Jews from orthodox Judaism is their point of view of the mosaic law. Christians, like reformed Jews, reject the ritual parts of this law. They focus on the moral /ethical part and ignore the cermonies, which destine the life of every orthodox Jew. If liberal Jews have some cermonies, they are only external, because the participating persons don't acknowledge, that they are necessary for salvation.
But the problem is that this worldview has on Protestants a totally different effect than on reformed Jews, althrough they have the same point of view on this central theological problem. You can see this clearly in the chart.
While fundamental protestants divide in general strictly between fleshly and sacred, reformed Jews are trying - the more they identify themselve with their religion the clearer you see it - to bring the garden of Eden to humanity with all kinds of utopias inclusive mainly the Marxist one. They see their task in life to bring salvation, like they understood, to humanity.
I think all in all reformed Judaism as well as Marxism have their sources in misunderstood Christianity, not in Judaism.
If you read the gospels and you confuse fleshly and sacred/spiritual statements and you will live by this concept you will become a marxist prototype.
The connection between Marxism and Judaism is not really a Jewish problem, but a Christian one that infiltrated Judaism during the Haskala, that Moses Mendelssohn started.
-
<snip>
If you read the gospels and you confuse fleshly and sacred/spiritual statements and you will live by this concept you will become a marxist prototype.
The connection between Marxism and Judaism is not really a Jewish problem, but a Christian one that infiltrated Judaism during the Haskala, that Moses Mendelssohn started.
can you elaborate on that.. what the statements are and how they can be confused.
I heard an interesting remark by Dr Cornel West on Bill Maher. He said somehing laong the lines of - "Jesus fed the poor, I guess they'd say jesus was a socialist"
-
<snip>
If you read the gospels and you confuse fleshly and sacred/spiritual statements and you will live by this concept you will become a marxist prototype.
The connection between Marxism and Judaism is not really a Jewish problem, but a Christian one that infiltrated Judaism during the Haskala, that Moses Mendelssohn started.
can you elaborate on that.. what the statements are and how they can be confused.
I heard an interesting remark by Dr Cornel West on Bill Maher. He said somehing laong the lines of - "Jesus fed the poor, I guess they'd say jesus was a socialist"
I think a good explanation is that if you are fleshly, you focus mainly on material things in this world and if you are spiritual you focus mainly on your private relation to God and you seek your reward in the world to come.
So if you hear i.e. a story from the Bible that talks about social justice, if you are spiritual you ask first youself what wants god from me and then you act secretly. I.e. you put a little bit money in an envelope and throw it at night in the mailbox of your suffering brother.
If you are fleshly, you go out and become a Socialist and try to take the property from other people away in order to spread the wealth around in order to become a powerfull political leader that is admired from all the people for his social attitude.
-
Non-right wing, White Jews have their own minds just like anyone else.
-
How such an intellectually gifted people can be so devoid of a self-preservation instinct is beyond belief, and quite possibly beyond rational explanation.
Because if he doesn't believe the Torah, then the intellectual will see no reason to be jewish. So they would remove what they see as artificial boundaries. Not to marry non-jews e.t.c.
But I would be interested to see Sparky's explanation on why it is that many jews are leftist.
Certainly what you say is true and explains why Jews decrease in numbers and disappear through assimilation. But it doesn't really explain why non-Torah believing Jews or secular Jews are so predominantly leftists.
There could well be a link between non-religious people in general being predisposed to adhering to the Marxist belief that 'religion is the opiate of the masses'. Conversely, this could partly explain why religious people apparently gravitate towards conservatism.
But why would an intelligent people overwhelmingly and consistently embrace a failed leftist ideology and political candidates that will act against their interests, even if they're not religious ?
It just doesn't make sense.
-
The Jews that voted for Osama are the scum of the earth. They still think Whites are the biggest anti-Semites when in fact it's the Blacks and Muslims. Osama's church was as anti-Jewish as the KKK but these dumb kikes still voted for him to counter so called white racism. They were the biggest supporters for Osama behind Blacks.
-
Here's what Osama thinks of the Jews who voted for him:
(http://daveandthomas.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/gorilla_middle_finger.jpg)
-
<snip>
If you read the gospels and you confuse fleshly and sacred/spiritual statements and you will live by this concept you will become a marxist prototype.
The connection between Marxism and Judaism is not really a Jewish problem, but a Christian one that infiltrated Judaism during the Haskala, that Moses Mendelssohn started.
can you elaborate on that.. what the statements are and how they can be confused.
I heard an interesting remark by Dr Cornel West on Bill Maher. He said somehing laong the lines of - "Jesus fed the poor, I guess they'd say jesus was a socialist"
I think a good explanation is that if you are fleshly, you focus mainly on material things in this world and if you are spiritual you focus mainly on your private relation to G-d and you seek your reward in the world to come.
So if you hear i.e. a story from the Bible that talks about social justice, if you are spiritual you ask first youself what wants G-d from me and then you act secretly. I.e. you put a little bit money in an envelope and throw it at night in the mailbox of your suffering brother.
If you are fleshly, you go out and become a Socialist and try to take the property from other people away in order to spread the wealth around in order to become a powerfull political leader that is admired from all the people for his social attitude.
that is extremely interesting..
how about govt spending on education, and health care..
which of the two interpretations would you put that under?
it doesn't seem to fit those 2 examples/interpretations.
would you consider it socialist and evil?
-
How such an intellectually gifted people can be so devoid of a self-preservation instinct is beyond belief, and quite possibly beyond rational explanation.
Because if he doesn't believe the Torah, then the intellectual will see no reason to be jewish. So they would remove what they see as artificial boundaries. Not to marry non-jews e.t.c.
But I would be interested to see Sparky's explanation on why it is that many jews are leftist.
Certainly what you say is true and explains why Jews decrease in numbers and disappear through assimilation. But it doesn't really explain why non-Torah believing Jews or secular Jews are so predominantly leftists.
There could well be a link between non-religious people in general being predisposed to adhering to the Marxist belief that 'religion is the opiate of the masses'. Conversely, this could partly explain why religious people apparently gravitate towards conservatism.
But why would an intelligent people overwhelmingly and consistently embrace a failed leftist ideology and political candidates that will act against their interests, even if they're not religious ?
It just doesn't make sense.
Also, because no boundaries, we are all part of the human race.
How am I any less important than the starving african.
Now, it's obvious to any sensible person that some people really do have more innate ability than others. And that other people e.g. arabs, dont play by those rules.
They are ideological and going for a Star Trek like ideal..
Really if you watch star trek you see no greater example of the intellectual ideal.
I symptahise with it, but I realise that a)we have the torah b)these other groups aren't playing by those nice rules!
Even in Star Trek, when it comes to aliens, you only get one or two nice ones!!
But as far as they are concerned, they ar eon the starship enterprise. They are trying to promote those values..
You could say it is against their self interest, but that -is- their interest, their worldview.
There is an arrogance to it, in having contempt for the arabs or other peoples, thinking they would throw away their tribal culture for the western one..
If they can get more foreign people adopting their ideology, living in their society, then they are setting an example to more. Spreading their world-view.
There is an argument within that. Of multi-culturalism(Celebrating diversity, even bending over backwards or I could say, forwards, for minorities) vs the melting pot(see the light, come in, adapt).
The multi-cultiuralists are extreme leftists, who celebrate other cultures in some attempt to make society more accomodating. They are very ideological about all humanity. They don't say "this guy's useless, we can't have him here".
They try to adapt society to fit him in. To create their starship enterprise.
But of course, notice that the starship enterprise wasn't actually that big!
It was never a standard forced on the entire world.
Leftists want to make the whole world like the starship enterprise. It's very ideological and also very naiive. Even the thing itself, was never meant to be that accomodating, even the science fiction writers knew it wouldn't have worked!
-
<snip>
If you read the gospels and you confuse fleshly and sacred/spiritual statements and you will live by this concept you will become a marxist prototype.
The connection between Marxism and Judaism is not really a Jewish problem, but a Christian one that infiltrated Judaism during the Haskala, that Moses Mendelssohn started.
can you elaborate on that.. what the statements are and how they can be confused.
I heard an interesting remark by Dr Cornel West on Bill Maher. He said somehing laong the lines of - "Jesus fed the poor, I guess they'd say jesus was a socialist"
I think a good explanation is that if you are fleshly, you focus mainly on material things in this world and if you are spiritual you focus mainly on your private relation to G-d and you seek your reward in the world to come.
So if you hear i.e. a story from the Bible that talks about social justice, if you are spiritual you ask first youself what wants G-d from me and then you act secretly. I.e. you put a little bit money in an envelope and throw it at night in the mailbox of your suffering brother.
If you are fleshly, you go out and become a Socialist and try to take the property from other people away in order to spread the wealth around in order to become a powerfull political leader that is admired from all the people for his social attitude.
that is extremely interesting..
how about govt spending on education, and health care..
which of the two interpretations would you put that under?
it doesn't seem to fit those 2 examples/interpretations.
would you consider it socialist and evil?
I think none of this two fields are a natural task for a gouvernment. I think if you transmit my example to health care and education the solution would be the private sector inclusive the religious communities or simply private persons.
But in general I am not shure, if I would be able to wield political power, without loosing my salvation. I think the location for Christians is the community and not the political office. Everybody is today so confident, that he/she will conquer the fleshly world, but the reality proofs that the fleshly world conquers you in the end.
I doubt sometimes if democracy is the best form of gouvernance. Perhaps is a strictly liberal (in the real meaning of Hayek and Friedman) changeless form of gouvernance the best. Democracy had always the attitude to turn into Socialism. Even Gaius Julius Caesar in Rome was a Socialist of the party of the Populares.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populares
Later after the French revolution this country created a lot of leaders with socialist attitudes i.e Napoleon.
Imo strict liberalism is the best for Jews and Christians in gentile countries, because it guarantees the freedom of faith, personal freedom and economic freedom.
----------------------------------------------
I have found a few important passages, that if you undertsand them fleshly, you will see that Judaism is not the source of Socialism, but misunderstood Christianity is.
1. There is the story of the rich man, the camel and the needle eye
There are three different versions of it in Matthew 19:16 ff, in Marc 10:17 ff and in Luke 18:18 ff
2. The so called sermon on the mountain
Matthew 5:1 ff
also important are the letters of Paul. A lot of times he speaks there about caring for the poor.
So in 2. Kor 9:6 ff and in Jacobus 2:1 ff.
If somebody will take this statements out of context and he will understand it in an material way, it makes him idealizing the poor and will bring him directly to Socialism.
The problem with it is only that it is clearly not meant in this direction.
It is clear that the passages meanthe personal relation to the wealth and the poor. They claim nowhere to redistribute the wealth of foreign people, like Obama, Wright & co. have understood. Actually this is imo simply stealing.
-
How such an intellectually gifted people can be so devoid of a self-preservation instinct is beyond belief, and quite possibly beyond rational explanation.
Because if he doesn't believe the Torah, then the intellectual will see no reason to be jewish. So they would remove what they see as artificial boundaries. Not to marry non-jews e.t.c.
But I would be interested to see Sparky's explanation on why it is that many jews are leftist.
Certainly what you say is true and explains why Jews decrease in numbers and disappear through assimilation. But it doesn't really explain why non-Torah believing Jews or secular Jews are so predominantly leftists.
There could well be a link between non-religious people in general being predisposed to adhering to the Marxist belief that 'religion is the opiate of the masses'. Conversely, this could partly explain why religious people apparently gravitate towards conservatism.
But why would an intelligent people overwhelmingly and consistently embrace a failed leftist ideology and political candidates that will act against their interests, even if they're not religious ?
It just doesn't make sense.
Also, because no boundaries, we are all part of the human race.
How am I any less important than the starving african.
Now, it's obvious to any sensible person that some people really do have more innate ability than others. And that other people e.g. arabs, dont play by those rules.
They are ideological and going for a Star Trek like ideal..
Really if you watch star trek you see no greater example of the intellectual ideal.
I symptahise with it, but I realise that a)we have the torah b)these other groups aren't playing by those nice rules!
Even in Star Trek, when it comes to aliens, you only get one or two nice ones!!
But as far as they are concerned, they ar eon the starship enterprise. They are trying to promote those values..
You could say it is against their self interest, but that -is- their interest, their worldview.
There is an arrogance to it, in having contempt for the arabs or other peoples, thinking they would throw away their tribal culture for the western one..
If they can get more foreign people adopting their ideology, living in their society, then they are setting an example to more. Spreading their world-view.
There is an argument within that. Of multi-culturalism(Celebrating diversity, even bending over backwards or I could say, forwards, for minorities) vs the melting pot(see the light, come in, adapt).
The multi-cultiuralists are extreme leftists, who celebrate other cultures in some attempt to make society more accomodating. They are very ideological about all humanity. They don't say "this guy's useless, we can't have him here".
They try to adapt society to fit him in. To create their starship enterprise.
But of course, notice that the starship enterprise wasn't actually that big!
It was never a standard forced on the entire world.
Leftists want to make the whole world like the starship enterprise. It's very ideological and also very naiive. Even the thing itself, was never meant to be that accomodating, even the science fiction writers knew it wouldn't have worked!
You might be onto something here. After all, Captain Kirk and Spock were Jewish.
-
Isn't it stated somewhere in the bible that 2/3 of the Jews will be destroyed for their wickedness? Are these the wicked Jews?
-
<snip>
Leftists want to make the whole world like the starship enterprise. It's very ideological and also very naiive. Even the thing itself, was never meant to be that accomodating, even the science fiction writers knew it wouldn't have worked!
You might be onto something here. After all, Captain Kirk and Spock were Jewish.
That's not exactly the line of thought.
-
that is extremely interesting..
how about govt spending on education, and health care..
which of the two interpretations would you put that under?
it doesn't seem to fit those 2 examples/interpretations.
would you consider it socialist and evil?
I think none of this two fields are a natural task for a gouvernment. I think if you transmit my example to health care and education the solution would be the private sector inclusive the religious communities or simply private persons.
interesting, but I mean that if the public sector is funding health care and education, would you say that is stealing too?
I guess you would.
<snip>
you make many interesting points about democracy leading to socialism,those 2 authors, and christians not seeking office..
Imo strict liberalism is the best for Jews and Christians in gentile countries, because it guarantees the freedom of faith, personal freedom and economic freedom.
Indeed. And even those jews crazy enough to stand with terrorists, they know that it's best to live in the west, that's why they live in america and not iran!
I have found a few important passages, that if you undertsand them fleshly, you will see that Judaism is not the source of Socialism, but misunderstood Christianity is.
<snip>
I can see the huge difference between charity and welfare..
The latter is stealing. (though with a moral twist)
I was reading this article.. it's a review of a book I haven't read, but the subject is interesting "Why Americans Hate Welfare"
http://web.syr.edu/~jmhorv01/review1.html
It actually said that americans don't mind govt money spent on education and health. I notice you don't fit into that article, besides not being american, you think it should be privatised.
I can tell you that in Britain, nobody talks of abolishing the national health service. It's considered a good thing.
Another big difference between America and Britain is that in America people know what socialism is and see it as evil. In Britain it's not spoken of or demonized.
But certainly the socialist regimes we see are all failures. Corrupt regimes.
China, Russia.
Even the kibbutzim(socialist structures within israel) , they were at one time seen as the one example of socialism working out. But apparently they failed - economically (putting aside the anti religiousness in most of them).
Are people educated against socialism in Germany. Or is it just America that is?
-
Self-hating idiot Catholics voted majority Hussein.
-
No, in my schooltime Socialism was promoted. We have had a school school subject, that was called Gemeinschaftskunde ( social studies ). There the teacher, member of the Socialist party SPD, even excused racists with society problems. The idea of personal responsibility was in the years I went to school a foreign term.
I am not opposed to Kibbutz like structures, because if people find together with free will to start a business there is nothing wrong with it.
It can work - look at the Hutterites.
It will be only wrong if people try to enforce it on other people, who don't want it.
And it is a lie, that in Socialism the hierarchies are disestablished and all people becoming brothers. Only the elite is changing.
In the DDR the gouvernment had a special office called KoKo under the leadership of Alexander Schalck-Golodkowski. The main task of it was to bring western trade goods to the elites who lived in luxory, while the people were poor.
Freedom is better than this twisted hypocritical systems. In the end all is about interest and power.
But the worst is if the religious communities melt into the state, like it is fact in Germany and I think great Britain too. In Germany the Central council of Jews in Germany have made a treaty with the gouvernment, like the Protestant church and the catholic church have already. They become through this parastatal institution.
The problem is here clear, that they have to play the tune of the state who pays them. It has destroyd the Churches and now it will destroy the Synagoge communities. They are all so stupid I could puke.
Religious communities can only prosper if they are clearly seperated from the state. This is common sense.
-
No, in my schooltime Socialism was promoted. We have had a school school subject, that was called Gemeinschaftskunde ( social studies ). There the teacher, member of the Socialist party SPD, even excused racists with society problems. The idea of personal responsibility was in the years I went to school a foreign term.
how did you get your education criticising socialism?
any particular books? (the ones by authors mentioned in your signature - Hayek and Freidman ?)
I am not opposed to Kibbutz like structures, because if people find together with free will to start a business there is nothing wrong with it.
It can work - look at the Hutterites.
It will be only wrong if people try to enforce it on other people, who don't want it.
I see.. same difference between welfare and charity.
Also, with charity you can choose a worthy cause.. Welfare can go to those that don't need it.
<snip>
But the worst is if the religious communities melt into the state, like it is fact in Germany and I think great Britain too. In Germany the Central council of Jews in Germany have made a treaty with the gouvernment, like the Protestant church and the catholic church have already. They become through this parastatal institution.
The problem is here clear, that they have to play the tune of the state who pays them. It has destroyd the Churches and now it will destroy the Synagoge communities. They are all so stupid I could puke.
Religious communities can only prosper if they are clearly seperated from the state. This is common sense.
There is a big jewish organisations, like the Board of Deputies of British Jews.
It's like the ADL. (The ADL is cleverly named to avert charges that jews only care about our own)
It's not a religious organisation and they don't really represent religious jews.
It has nothing to do with the way the synagogue service is run.
The Govt really don't interfere with how things are done in the synagogue.. Or the events that synagogues have.
And the really religious jews tend to have many smaller services just in homes. The Govt has nothing whatsoever to do with that. It's basically off the radar.. And the govt don't need to have anything to do with it. They couldn't care less! They like the fact that jews are law abiding.
The lubavitch, probably suspect that secular jewish organisations might not represent them. They do alot of good work with an organisation called "drugs line". They were actually mentioned by William Hague (the leader of the opposition at one time) , in his party's manifesto, as an example to other religious groups.
Gordon Brown (the current british PM) is relatively friendly towards israel. Infact his father was a pastor. Gordon is very friendly with the current chief rabbi, Jonathan Sacks. The relationship with jews and the govt is really very good.
And there is no interference at all with how synagogues run.
We say a prayer for the well-being state every week, i'm sure jews all over the world do infact. I heard that Princess Margaret came to a synagogue service and was flattered by it, it was news to her that we had done so for around , I think I was told it was, 300 years. It's in the talmud to pray for the well-being (I don't want to say wefare ;-) ) of the state
Definitely no problems with govt interference in our religious affairs.
The Chief Rabbi is largely a PR guy.. It's true that he does run the London Bet Din, an important jewish religious court. And maybe others. But he is more of a figure head to it. It's the judges that make the decisions on it..
He has written a good translation of the prayer book.. with other improvements. So he isn't just PR. But it's not like with the Pope that he runs the thing. He's just a rabbi. He's the rabbi chosen to represent us to the nations.
-
Why haven't they learned their lesson from one holocaust? And yes self hating Catholics also voted for this abomination. This world has gone mad, thats it folks we are in the age of the asylum
-
"80% of frum Yidden voted for McCain!"
Then 20% of "frum" Jews in America are evil traitors.
-
Shalom,
It is from Pirkie Avos Chapter 3 Mishnah 2 which reads:
2. Rabbi Chanina, deputy to the kohanim, would say: Pray for the integrity of the government; for were it not for the fear of its authority, a man would swallow his neighbor alive.
-
"80% of frum Yidden voted for McCain!"
Then 20% of "frum" Jews in America are evil traitors.
and greater than 50% of americans then.
It's silly to take statistics out of context.
That is what leftists often do. They often forget "relative/compared to whome/what"
-
why call them "white" Jews...Jews are Jews
-
In my school time I had no education about this issue from nobody, but I felt in my heart, that it was wrong. Later I thought conservatism would save the world, but today I think the only way is to seperate myself from it (Socialism and the state).
I learned about Hayek and Friedman as well as Mises only before a short time. But althrough they were not very religious they have come to the right result.
I think I became a liberal in the same moment I became a believer and I realized, that the highest level we can reach in this world is at least from a human point of view is relative personal freedom. The access to the garden of eden is blocked by the Cherubs and the flame sword. We can not enter. Every attempt has ended in the exact opposite result. We should learn from it.
If we would make it the bible would proven wrong, because G-d says in 1. Mo. 3:17 ff that;
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art , and unto dust shalt thou return.
I have taken the quote from the King James version.
P.S: It is good, that the British communities are independent from the gouvernment. I thought it would be otherwise, because I read that the Queen is the head of the Angelikan Church. So I thought that the development would take the same way, like it is in Germany.
-
As usually happens when discussing liberals and conservatives, the lines become blurred and generalities that pigeonhole individuals and groups emerge.
Thomas Jefferson was certainly a liberal. The founding fathers were probably all classical liberals. At the same time they were extremely conservative on many issues, especially the scope of governmental power and the size of government.
What we identify as liberals today (those whom mistakenly identify themselves as progressives) are a far cry from classical Jeffersonian liberals.
These are people that almost universally want bigger and more powerful government and seem to think this is not incompatible with their professed desire to maximize personal liberties.
Anyway, as far as this thread goes, I still haven't seen a satisfactory explanation as to why a supposedly intelligent group of people such as the Jews continually vote for and work to put the most leftist candidates into political office. At least not an explanation that satisfies me.
Then again, I just can't understand how anyone with an ounce of intelligence can be a liberal Democrat, this doesn't only apply to Jews.
-
In my school time I had no education about this issue from nobody, but I felt in my heart, that it was wrong. Later I thought conservatism would save the world, but today I think the only way is to seperate myself from it (Socialism and the state).
I learned about Hayek and Friedman as well as Mises only before a short time. But althrough they were not very religious they have come to the right result.
I think I became a liberal in the same moment I became a believer and I realized, that the highest level we can reach in this world is at least from a human point of view is relative personal freedom. The access to the garden of eden is blocked by the Cherubs and the flame sword. We can not enter. Every attempt has ended in the exact opposite result. We should learn from it.
If we would make it the bible would proven wrong, because G-d says in 1. Mo. 3:17 ff that;
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art , and unto dust shalt thou return.
I have taken the quote from the King James version.
P.S: It is good, that the British communities are independent from the gouvernment. I thought it would be otherwise, because I read that the Queen is the head of the Angelikan Church. So I thought that the development would take the same way, like it is in Germany.
I can't imagine that the German Govt is causing disruption to how synagogues are run. I spoke to a jew from germany some years ago(his father had gone there because of economic problems, and he has left). He said they are incentivising jews to come there, but because of what germany had done, he couldn't stand being there, he just wanted to get out.
A prayer service can take place in a home or any building, a school, outdoors .. It would take a real communist regime to stop "synagogues"!!
That passage from Genesis can certainly bring one back to earth..
But does socialism really aim at a garden of eden scene(minus G-d)?
People still work in a socialist regime.
And it is possible that we are moving into the messianic era, as a natural thing. e.g. maybe people won't become sick.. because of new tech/medical enchancements. People won't die. [1]
The passage you refer to, near there it writes of enmity/hatred between the snake and the woman and their offspring. Well, nowadays most of us live away from snakes, so we got away from that one!
Maybe one day we will have solar powered vehicles to work the land. And we won't have to work. A solar powered food generator would be good! Then G-d might say "sorry, this is too good for you, i'll send you to the garden of eden " ;-) But that may be near the messianic era.
Another example of somebody getting around that passage.. are people so rich they are born with , to use the english expression, born with a silver spoon in their mouth , and don't have to work. Or cook! Maybe they sit on a goldmine, or they inherit lots of money.As well as a chef and maid and so on.
Generally, man has to work.. But this is true in the socialist system as well, surely. He just doesn't have to work quite as much, and he doesn't get as much.
[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messianism
Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
note for jews largely,
rambam writes of a messianic era coming naturally.
rabbi aryeh kaplan offers his opinion "handbook of jewish thought "(vol 1, I think), the explanation of tech/medical enchancements as a way it could occur naturally.
-
The Jews that voted for Osama are the scum of the earth. They still think Whites are the biggest anti-Semites when in fact it's the Blacks and Muslims. Osama's church was as anti-Jewish as the KKK but these dumb kikes still voted for him to counter so called white racism. They were the biggest supporters for Osama behind Blacks.
they are uninformed and reformed Jews or not religious at all. they did not do their research like the rest of the morons in this country. the night The Animal won, it showed Georgetown students jumping up and down, chanting the mantras and even one guy who took a magic marker and wrote O-BA-MA across his naked chest and kept lifting his shirt up in front of the cameras. talk about a bunch of scary morons that will one day hold important jobs, i.e., lawyers, judges and politicians.
-
I know exactly why Jews are leftists. It's a long explanation but perfectly explains why Marxism is a Jewish phenomenon, resulting from centuries of persecution. I should write a paper about it since people, including Jews themselves, don't understand why they're leftists.
Nope, don't buy it. Jews become leftists because they hate being Jewish, not because they fear persecution. It is the left-wing, self-hating Jews who bring on anti-Semitism, after all. Karl Marx viciously turned on his fellow Jews. He was not acting out a "Jewish phenomenon".
-
Herzl's secular zionism was to end persecution.
plan a)jews convert to christianity.
plan b)state of israel - jews no longer a persecuted minority.
they hate judaism they love goyim and fear goyim rejecting them, they want desperately to be accepted, to be loved by them.
-
I know exactly why Jews are leftists. It's a long explanation but perfectly explains why Marxism is a Jewish phenomenon, resulting from centuries of persecution. I should write a paper about it since people, including Jews themselves, don't understand why they're leftists.
Nope, don't buy it. Jews become leftists because they hate being Jewish, not because they fear persecution. It is the left-wing, self-hating Jews who bring on anti-Semitism, after all. Karl Marx viciously turned on his fellow Jews. He was not acting out a "Jewish phenomenon".
No its a mixture. And Marx didn't turn on Jews, he was never facing them. (He was practically not a Jew at all. Didn't identify as such, wasn't raised as one either- was raised Catholic).
The fear of persecution is a factor especially for people who don't observe. Why? Becuase one who doesn't have the "Higher Fear" which is the Fear of G-d, then they are much more exposed to "lower fears" which is fear of people, the gov. animals, ghosts, etc.
Many Jews do fear their being persecution, and combined with their ignorance of Judaism, they feel that bringing everyone together, and not having divisions between nations, etc. is the correct thing to have and would bring peace (in a limited way they are correct, even Rav Kahane said in regards to Israel and Zionism that having a nation without the real purpose- of building a Holy nation in its land is stupid, racist, and pointless.)
Also they see that voting left is better then right because the right is associated with evangelicals and religious people who have in the past persecuted particularly European Jews. So they have a natural antithesis for them.
-
<snip>Marx didn't turn on Jews<snip>
He did write a book called "A world without jews"
Any jew in power, is almost always secular, and almost always turns on jews..
(they have to avert the claim that they are only for their own)
Marx is an extreme example, maybe a kind of father of them.