JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on March 04, 2009, 11:09:29 PM
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Whore Actress Megan Fox To Star In Upcoming Films Hex and Fathom
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/2009/03/megan-fox-moves.html
This is just a change-of-pace thread to get our minds off the unpleasantness that has recently gone on here and the feud that we have recently had with the ASPCA "forum" and its five teenaged autistic active posters. I saw this on Yahoo today and had to make a comment. It's nothing new really--just a reminder of the evil days we live in and the nonstop campaign by Hollywood to turn every single young person into amoral Amalek.
The evil kurva and Amy Whorehouse doppelganger Megan Fox (ys"vz), a proud bisexual who has boasted of having affairs with female strippers (something she probably was before making it big), brags about her sex drive in smutty magazines such as FHM, and resembles a Harlem streetwalker in every photo shoot she is in, has been just given two plum movie roles by the Jew-hating Hollyweird establishment. Would a non-whoring actress ever get these roles? Gimme a break here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan_Fox
I would post a picture of this disgusting human petri dish, but don't want to make our good members vomit. It is very easy to find photos of this harlot all over the internet if you so wish to.
As for why I insist on using the royal y.s. on this whore, let me just remind you all of the spiritual holocaust that she is helping to inflict on America. Her fans are largely teens--stupid girls who will think that her behavior is alright and hormone-crazed adolescent boys--who are too ignorant, secular, and worldly to know any better than to reject her evil ways. Also, what about the righteous men and women who unfortunately battle sexual sin and temptation who will be sadly tempted by the sick ways of this demoness? I will admit to not knowing for sure if this creature is an actual Jew-hater or not, but really, can there be any doubt that this Angelina Hoelie (yimach schma vezichra) lookalike mirrrors all of her views? Do sluts ever have any mercy towards G-d's long-suffering Chosen People?
Chaimfan
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This is indeed a chilling whore. She probably has slept with every young shvartza male in the NBA.
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C.F, you should make a Hollywood rant blog...
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This is indeed a chilling whore. She probably has slept with every young shvartza male in the NBA.
Judging from her comments and track record the WNBA is probably much more to her tastes.
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Yay, another lovely topic...
Megan Fox must be very very evil... I guess I gotta hate her now... Who the heck is Megan Fox?
(you know Yemach Shma means may her memory be erased... You made sure I will have a memory of her... I hope I dont learn more about her)
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Yay, another lovely topic...
Megan Fox must be very very evil... I guess I gotta hate her now... Who the heck is Megan Fox?
(you know Yemach Shma means may her memory be erased... You made sure I will have a memory of her... I hope I dont learn more about her)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan_Fox
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Like I really needed to see a picture of a woman dressed so immodestly... I could have imagined that... My point was not to learn about her... My point was to point out if we really want to remove someones memory from earth we should not even talk about them.
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Like I really needed to see a picture of a woman dressed so immodestly... I could have imagined that... My point was not to learn about her... My point was to point out if we really want to remove someones memory from earth we should not even talk about them.
How is she dressed so immodestly?
What is she supposed to dress like she is amish
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See this posting about Erasing the memory of Amalek:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,32658.msg332812.html#msg332812
In Jewish observance we have the quality of tzniut, modesty. It is hard to explain to people who have no concept of this. Yes, this woman is of low social status, as some would call a whore, but that is her business. My concern is shielding my eyes from seeing this kind of smut.
Sure we all know that people who live such wonton lives will not recieve the much valued reward in the afterlife. But maybe they dont care and they forfiet their portion in the world to come. That should not impact me... What is important to me is to learn, to better my character atrributes, and to glorify the world which Hashem has created. It is my mission as a Jew to attribute all the good in this world to Hashems glory, as we say "The entire world will be filled with Hashems glory (Yeshayah 6:3)"
Im sorry I dipped my soul into this topic...
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Ayy.. this is such a silly thread. I must say... I am learning about all the Hollywood starletts thanks to C.F.
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Americanhero, I actually have to agree with Muman on this one. I refrained from posting her pic for this very reason. Chaim has warned us against posting the pictures of attractive Amalek (not that I think Fox is attractive, but conceivably she could tempt some of our brothers to lust). Why don't you edit that post and simply provide a link to that pic so that people can choose whether or not to see it?
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Americanhero, I actually have to agree with Muman on this one. I refrained from posting her pic for this very reason. Chaim has warned us against posting the pictures of attractive Amalek (not that I think Fox is attractive, but conceivably she could tempt some of our brothers to lust). Why don't you edit that post and simply provide a link to that pic so that people can choose whether or not to see it?
I don't think she is that bad looking in that pic, I simply think she is a disgusting piece of garbage. Their is no question she looks better than barack hussein obamas wife lol.
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Megan Fox is amalek now :::D :::D
CF your posts are gold. Pure entertainment. But please leave it to us Jews to decide who amalek is. Thank You
- Nadav
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Megan Fox is amalek now :::D :::D
CF your posts are gold. Pure entertainment. But please leave it to us Jews to decide who amalek is. Thank You
- Nadav
Nadav, why do you have to be so negative towards him? while it's true that fox is not Amalek because she has not pursued the jewish people, why don't you just explain it nicely to keep the forum civil?
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This is indeed a chilling whore. She probably has slept with every young shvartza male in the NBA.
I think they only like obese white women. :::D
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Megan Fox is amalek now :::D :::D
CF your posts are gold. Pure entertainment. But please leave it to us Jews to decide who amalek is. Thank You
- Nadav
Nadav, why do you have to be so negative towards him? while it's true that fox is not Amalek because she has not pursued the jewish people, why don't you just explain it nicely to keep the forum civil?
That is constructive criticism... That is much better.
I do agree with DWI that you should cut CF some slack because he has shown that his heart is in the right place when it comes to several very important issues. I do appreciate his work for JTF and as much as I disagree with some of his positions I believe that we are capable of civil discourse.
We have had members here who even though they were righteous in some respects they had a problem with interpersonal issues. Some people who always look to demean and belittle other forum members will not be tolerated.
One reason I was selected to be a moderator here at JTF is because it is important to be moderate in some circumstances. I believe that you Nadav, and you CF, and I share a good deal of positions politically. Even though we are not all the same we can learn from each other. As I have pointed out in some of my Torah postings, Jewish wisdom dictates that we should aspire to be like Aharon, Moshes brother, who was capable of making peace between a husband and wife who were arguing, and bring brothers together who disagreed.
Please let us not hold grudges against our brothers. If we expect the world of Jews to observe the Mitzvot, and the Bnei Noach to obey the 7 commands, we should make examples of ourselves and commit to doing more mitzvahs. This is the essence of Jewish belief, that through doing the mitzvahs (or not) we can affect the world, for good or heaven forbid for the bad.
Shalom
Ethics of the Fathers (Pirkie Avot)
1:12. Hillel and Shammai received from them. Hillel would say: Be of the disciples of Aaron--a lover of peace, a pursuer of peace, one who loves the creatures and draws them close to Torah.
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When I saw Megan Fox in Transformer, I first thought her to be the daughter of Sharone Stone.
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Muman, I know that you and Chaim differ on the matter but how do you define Amalek? Isn't any person who is evil considered to be Amalek? Couldn't it be argued that people like Fox are rodfim against righteous and moral people, especially males who are tempted to lust and immorality because of her?
Fox is trying to teach hundreds of millions of people that homosexuality is cool and normal--particularly women, who historically (though it's changing fast) have not been as involved in perversion as men have. She has openly said that she believes every human being is naturally and normally attracted to both genders. What kind of evil, satanic dreck is that? She is attempting to commit a moral holocaust against 300 million Americans.
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Some of these comments are the funniest things ever. I like these light topics sometimes, they get my mind off the horrible things happening to Israel, America and other righteous people and nations.
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Muman, I know that you and Chaim differ on the matter but how do you define Amalek? Isn't any person who is evil considered to be Amalek? Couldn't it be argued that people like Fox are rodfim against righteous and moral people, especially males who are tempted to lust and immorality because of her?
Fox is trying to teach hundreds of millions of people that homosexuality is cool and normal--particularly women, who historically (though it's changing fast) have not been as involved in perversion as men have. She has openly said that she believes every human being is naturally and normally attracted to both genders. What kind of evil, satanic dreck is that? She is attempting to commit a moral holocaust against 300 million Americans.
I dont agree with you on this... It is not unusual to say that everyone has drives like this. In Jewish belief it is not wrong to be a homosexual, it is wrong to actually commit the sex act with a man. A person who can control his/her urges has risen above nature. It is not wrong for a man to look at a woman, as it is natural and the way the yetzer hara is supposed to work. It is said that without the yetzer hara nobody would have a family. In this case the evil inclination works for the good end. A jew is supposed to glorify Hashem with both of his souls {his good and his evil inclination}.
According to Torah a man could only be killed if a witness had seen him commit a sex act with another man and had rebuked him. As I have been saying that the crime of homosexual acts is on the same severity as the crime of desecrating the Shabbat. One cannot condemn either act alone, as both are equally repugnant and against Hashems will.
As we have often pointed to the example of Pinchas... The Rabbis have taught that the desecration of Hashems name was so pronounced because the transgression occured right in front of Moshes eyes. What people do behind closed doors is their own business, between them and the L-rd. I don't persecute gays for being gay, I persecute their attempt to spread the belief that it is OK. Maybe it is natural but that is no excuse. Maybe people are born cleptomaniacs but they must learn to control their urges and contribute to society. In Judaism we accept that people are challenged with a variety of tests, and homosexuality may be one of those challenges. Nobody can argue that it is not a perversion before our G-d.
I would not support an argument that they are rodfim. The crime I would consider would be placing stumbling blocks before the blind and misleading people to a life of sin.
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CF...again??
On February 26 I locked this thread of yours
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,32368.0.html
Today you open another silly thread about this woman! Why? Is she THAT important for our cause?
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I dont agree with you on this... It is not unusual to say that everyone has drives like this. In Jewish belief it is not wrong to be a homosexual, it is wrong to actually commit the sex act with a man. A person who can control his/her urges has risen above nature.
This is very interesting.. I've never heard that view before. Is this a popular view, or is this how some rabbi's translate it?
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I dont agree with you on this... It is not unusual to say that everyone has drives like this. In Jewish belief it is not wrong to be a homosexual, it is wrong to actually commit the sex act with a man. A person who can control his/her urges has risen above nature.
This is very interesting.. I've never heard that view before. Is this a popular view, or is this how some rabbi's translate it?
I will provide some links and some commentary:
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/homosexuality-and-judaism.htm
Judaism, Nature and Homosexuality
A primary function and overall goal of the commandments is nothing less than the transformation of the individual. Judaism addresses the human being as it finds him — in his "natural" state — seething with animal passions, ridden with negative character traits. Through the agency of those Divine tools of refinement that are the commandments, the Torah beckons man to exchange his obsession with sensuality, his pettiness, self-centeredness and worse for a world of spiritual grandeur and ultimate meaning.
The implacable foe with which Judaism's battle is forever pitched, then, is not so much secularism or even non-belief as it is "nature," that is, the human being's intense desire to eschew growth and change, to remain static in the face of G-d's summons to greatness. No one perceived — and furiously opposed — this overarching Judaic objective more than the modern-day manifestation of evil incarnate, Adolf Hitler. He wrote in "Mein Kampf," "a man must...understand the fundamental necessity of Nature's rule.... Then he will feel that in a universe where...force alone forever masters weakness ... there can be no special laws for man."
The nature of the challenge posed by the Torah will, of course, vary with the individual, based on proclivities both inborn and acquired. For some, that challenge will be the struggle to control anger and aggressiveness, while for others, it will be the attempt to rein in arrogance and reach out in acknowledgement of the other. Yet others' particularly daunting charge will be combating powerful sensual drives, with their potential to reduce the unlimited human potential to nothing more than the pursuit of shallow, momentary fleshy pleasures. This is no less true for the individual who claims to have been "born gay" than for anyone else. …
When the Torah decreed that all sexual activity should be channeled into marriage, writes Dennis Prager, it ensured that sex no longer dominated society, heightened male-female love and sexuality, and began the arduous task of elevating the status of women. The ban on homosexuality desexualized religion[1], gave boundaries and controls to the strongest of man’s sensual urges which until then had been expressed in every which way[2]. When Judaism demanded that all sexual activity be channeled into marriage, it changed the world. The subsequent dominance of the Western world, says Dennis Prager, can largely be attributed to the sexual revolution initiated by Judaism, and later carried forward by Christianity.
The revolutionary nature of Judaism's prohibiting all forms of non-marital sex was nowhere more radical, more challenging to the prevailing assumptions of mankind, than with regard to homosexuality.
Indeed, Judaism may be said to have invented the notion of homosexuality, for in the ancient world sexuality was not divided between heterosexuality and homosexuality. That division was the Bible's doing. Before the Bible, the world divided sexuality between … active and passive roles[3].
As Martha Nussbaum, professor of philosophy at Brown University, recently wrote, the ancients were no more concerned with people's gender preference than people today are with others' eating preferences:
Boys and women were very often treated interchangeably as objects of (male) desire. What was socially important is to penetrate rather than to be penetrated. Sex is understood fundamentally not as interaction, but as a doing of something to someone. In this environment, homosexuality was rampant[4].
Judaism changed all this. It rendered the "gender of the object" very "morally problematic"; it declared that no one is "interchangeable" sexually. And as a result, it ensured that sex would in fact be "fundamentally interaction" and not simply "a doing of something to someone."
It is the Hebrew Bible that gave humanity such ideas as a universal, moral, loving G-d; ethical obligations to this G-d; the need for history to move forward to moral and spiritual redemption; the belief that history has meaning; and the notion that human freedom and social justice are the divinely desired states for all people. It gave the world the Ten Commandments, ethical monotheism, and the concept of holiness (the goal of raising human beings from the animal-like to the Godlike).
Judaism cannot make peace with homosexuality because homosexuality denies many of Judaism's most fundamental principles. It denies life, it denies G-d's expressed desire that men and women cohabit, and it denies the root structure that Judaism wishes for all mankind, the family[5].
by Eytan Kobre
http://www.jlaw.com/Commentary/homosexuality.html
Homosexuality
Richard Greenberg
Homosexuality was one of several red-flag issues raised during the recent confirmation hearings for Attorney General John Ashcroft.
Having glimpsed a Pentacostal Christian perspective on this subject, I couldn't help wondering how many Jews out there -- regardless of political affiliation -- must be curious about Judaism's stance on homosexuality. With that as a backdrop, I offer a tradition-oriented Jewish primer that I hope will help.
First, let's consult the "Constitution" of the Jews, the Torah. Even a cursory reading of the relevant sections shows that the Torah is unequivocally opposed to the homosexual act, which it twice labels an abomination: Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. It's worth noting that this prohibition is grouped with several other unacceptable sexual practices, including bestiality. Scholars have reviewed various attempts to justify homosexual behavior through the "reinterpretation" of these Torah passages, and have found them to be unconvincing.
So significant is the ban on homosexual activity that it is part of the afternoon Torah reading for Yom Kippur.
Moreover, Judaism has taken this admonition to heart over the centuries. "Even in antiquity, when countless cultures and religions incorporated homosexuality in some form, Judaism absolutely rejected homosexual practices," writes New York attorney Eytan Kobre in a recent edition of the Forward.
End of discussion? Not really. Being a guidebook for living, Judaism should be expected to deal forthrightly, compassionately -- and above all, realistically -- with questions that flow from such a stern prohibition. The most critical one is this: If the act is forbidden, how are we to relate to the actors themselves?
The answer: As human beings and fellow Jews, individuals created b'tzelem elokeem, in the image of G-d. Judaism may disapprove of homosexual activity, but not of the homosexual himself. "He is as beloved in G-d's eyes as any other Jew, and is as responsible as any Jew is in all the mitzvahs," according to Rabbi Shraga Simmons of Aish HaTorah.
Nobody's perfect; we all sin -- and when we do, we are expected to do teshuvah, or repentance. The same holds true for this particular variety of sinner. "He need not feel irreparably and irretrievably stigmatized," wrote Rabbi Barry Freundel of Congregation Kesher Israel in Washington, D.C. "Above all, he need not feel excluded from the community."
The dynamic might change, however, if the individual insists on taking a public, activist approach that seeks to legitimize inherently unacceptable behavior. In that case, he would run the risk of distancing himself from the community -- as would, for example, any Jew who publicly and explicitly promotes, say, the desecration of Shabbos or the wanton violation of other Jewish laws.
Whether homosexual activity is the product of nature or nurture is not critical. Judaism holds that the behavior of all functioning adults can and must be controlled, whether or not genes play a role in determining that behavior. As Eytan Kobre pointed out, "a primary function and overall goal of the commandments is nothing less than the transformation of the individual." A key aspect of that transformation is the harnessing of personal passions and desires, a test we all face.
The fact is, predilections exist for all sorts of unacceptable and unlawful behavior, including that which causes bloodshed. The Talmud (Shabbos 156a) recognizes this, advising those thusly affected to channel their predisposition into useful endeavors by becoming surgeons or mohels, for example. Remember: Judaism does not govern orientations; only acts. "A desire for lobster dinner is not a violation of kashrus laws," notes Rabbi Simmons. "Only the dinner is. The same is true with homosexuality."
Regarding homosexuality, Jews are placed in the position of trying to be both steadfast and humane, and it isn't always easy to pull that off. There are, however, honorable people who have tried their best to walk that tightrope, and have succeeded. They have found a way to be compassionate and understanding while not embracing the unembracable.
Both of these articles confirm my statement that Judaism looks at Homosexuality as a sin against G-d, but that the individual has free-will to choose his action. Even if there are urges and even genetic predisposition to homosexuality, the individual must obey the laws which Hashem gave us. People do many wrong things, Shabbos desecration is one of the worst for a Jew... And as I have said before the Shabbos desecrator does the same desecration as a homosexual by not listening to the words of G-d as given to the Jews at Sinai.
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Interesting post, Muman. Now since we're discussing the Jewish view of homosexuality, would any of you men want your sisters or daughters marrying a man with a homosexual preference (who presumably never had gay sex)? It's one thing to say the act is immoral, and that such urges can be controlled. But what about women? Is it fair that such men who have no physical attraction to women, should have to marry them? Is that fair to the women in question?
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Now C.F., since you bring up Megan Fox again, I just have to say that you're giving this woman way too much power. While I agree that she's a loose woman, I don't thing it's accurate to say she's committing some kind of moral Holocaust against Americans. We all have free will. So we can choose whom to identify with. Also, most teens have parents, whose job it is to raise moral, civilized children. It does NOT take a village to raise a child. It takes a husband and wife. If more parents either home schooled their kids, or sent them to religious private schools, and limited their television viewing, we wouldn't have to worry about the latest Hollywood floozies.
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Interesting post, Muman. Now since we're discussing the Jewish view of homosexuality, would any of you men want your sisters or daughters marrying a man with a homosexual preference (who presumably never had gay sex)? It's one thing to say the act is immoral, and that such urges can be controlled. But what about women? Is it fair that such men who have no physical attraction to women, should have to marry them? Is that fair to the women in question?
I would not marry a woman that is attracted to women..
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C.F., like I said before, I think you need to find yourself a nice girl to marry.
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I dont agree with you on this... It is not unusual to say that everyone has drives like this. In Jewish belief it is not wrong to be a homosexual, it is wrong to actually commit the sex act with a man. A person who can control his/her urges has risen above nature.
This is very interesting.. I've never heard that view before. Is this a popular view, or is this how some rabbi's translate it?
I gotta put my two cents in here.
I can honestly say... that I have NEVER EVER had an urge to have sex with a man. and I have NEVER found a guy attractive. In fact... I dont even like women who are the slightest bit masculine. Men are hidous to me. Its as grotesque as bestiality to me.
I think most men are like this (Lets say 80%)
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BUT!!! with that being said... there are certainly men who have different urges. I know guys who have confided that they WERE attracted to guys... and I assumed that they were joking... but I think they were genuine. THEY are the ones that have this conflict.... NOT a majority of men. THEY are the ones that need direction... and guidance... and parenting so that they can understand which urgings that they should NOT act on.
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C.F., like I said before, I think you need to find yourself a nice girl to marry.
With all due respect Lisa, I don't grasp the relevance of this to the fact that the entire establishment is forcing this human dreck down our throats. This story I posted about was a Yahoo headline, and was not something I sought out on my own.
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Muman, I respectfully disagree with your analysis, for two reasons.
1: Megan Fox (may her name be obliterated and may she be removed from this earth like the cancerous tumor that she is) is not simply sharing what her own tastes and attractions are. She went out of her way to say, in a smut magazine (FHM, which is all but a soft-core porn rag), that she believes that every single one of us is a bisexual at heart. Not only is that a lie from Gehenom, but her motive here was not just to give her opinion--it was to state that this behavior is normal, acceptable, and should be partaken in by all. In that same interview, she bragged about engaging in a sick lesbian affair with a hooker. Obviously she did not just keep her perverse fantasies to herself; she acted on them. Fox (ys) is a part of the general moral incineration of our youth today, and in particular she is playing on the popular contemporary male fantasy of female homosexual activity (I would give the vernacular slang for this, but I do not want to debase the forum with this term, and besides I think most guys here know what the term is already). Moreover, what kind of impact is she having on people who really do have internal struggles with homosexuality and are trying honestly to fight it? She is trying to murder their souls!
2: I can say that in Christian theology, thoughts do count. Jesus very clearly taught that any willful indulgence in an evil thought--be it lust, adultery, or murder--regardless of whether it was actually acted upon--will be judged exactly the same as the actual deed. I don't know what the Torah/Talmud says on the matter, but I am quite certain that Judaism frowns just as much on willfully prurient thoughts as Christianity does. I'd like to see what some other religious Jews say on the matter, but am quite positive that Chaim would agree that homosexual fantasy is also an abomination in the eyes of Hashem.
Here is what the Christian New Testament (the gospel of Matthew) says on this matter. I realize that not many in this thread are Christians, but I find it germane to illustrate the basis of my zero-tolerance policy on moral perversion.
You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Chaimfan
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Muman, I respectfully disagree with your analysis, for two reasons.
1: Megan Fox (may her name be obliterated and may she be removed from this earth like the cancerous tumor that she is) is not simply sharing what her own tastes and attractions are. She went out of her way to say, in a smut magazine (FHM, which is all but a soft-core porn rag), that she believes that every single one of us is a bisexual at heart. Not only is that a lie from Gehenom, but her motive here was not just to give her opinion--it was to state that this behavior is normal, acceptable, and should be partaken in by all. In that same interview, she bragged about engaging in a sick lesbian affair with a hooker. Obviously she did not just keep her perverse fantasies to herself; she acted on them. Fox (ys) is a part of the general moral incineration of our youth today, and in particular she is playing on the popular contemporary male fantasy of female homosexual activity (I would give the vernacular slang for this, but I do not want to debase the forum with this term, and besides I think most guys here know what the term is already). Moreover, what kind of impact is she having on people who really do have internal struggles with homosexuality and are trying honestly to fight it? She is trying to murder their souls!
2: I can say that in Christian theology, thoughts do count. Jesus very clearly taught that any willful indulgence in an evil thought--be it lust, adultery, or murder--regardless of whether it was actually acted upon--will be judged exactly the same as the actual deed. I don't know what the Torah/Talmud says on the matter, but I am quite certain that Judaism frowns just as much on willfully prurient thoughts as Christianity does. I'd like to see what some other religious Jews say on the matter, but am quite positive that Chaim would agree that homosexual fantasy is also an abomination in the eyes of Hashem.
Here is what the Christian New Testament (the gospel of Matthew) says on this matter. I realize that not many in this thread are Christians, but I find it germane to illustrate the basis of my zero-tolerance policy on moral perversion.
You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Chaimfan
It is well known that that the Torah only forbids the actual act itself. What is important is what deeds are done.. This is another example of the big gaping difference between your religion and Judaism. I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is why Judaism doesn't have Rabbis preaching eternal hell for all transgression. Because Christianity doesn't have 613 mitzvahs it is very easy to call yourself righteous without doing a whole heck of a lot. There is no difference in Torah between one who eats non-Kosher food and a homosexual as both are denying G-ds word just the same. I suspect you don't keep Kosher, and I suspect you don't observe Shabbat, so you know what I am saying here.
It seems you have gaping wholes in your understanding of Jewish theology and it shows...
PS: C.F. Chaim is not Hashem... Hashem gave us Torah and it is clear, for 3500 years that what I am saying is true. If you want more proof I can send it to you... You are out of control in your rage against homosexuals. There are gays who are working on fixing themselves. I think because you believe in a physical Satan you take it out on everyone you think is quote-unquote Satanic {whatever that means}.
PPS: By your own quote you condemned yourself. (You have looked at and lusted for Condi Rice, and you admit it). You my friend are a sinner and will burn in hell for eternity because you look at women... You have posted multiple posts with pictures of scantily clad women and you are causing others to sin... My G-d I hope you pray for your soul.
One last thought... Please show me a Jewish source which supports your position... I challenge you to find it...
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She went out of her way to say, in a smut magazine (FHM, which is all but a soft-core porn rag), that she believes that every single one of us is a bisexual at heart.
Wow, that is liberalism at its extreme. Pathetic!!!
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Having said this I am also very clear that Homosexuality is a sin against G-d and should be removed from the world. But I will not condemn every gay person to the same judgment. Remember we are not the judges of other people and Judaism teaches that we should judge ourselves first, make ourselves perfect, then we can judge. Unless people are able to judge fairly they themselves are guilty of a bigger sin than homosexuality.
I rail against homosexuals who are trying to normalize it and make it palatable to young people. But my doing so does not involve any hatred of the people who are caught up in the sin. Society is not at a high level now and people may be naive about the truth {Torah}.
There is a big difference in Jewish thought and Christian thought about it... It has to do with what Torah says about Jews and sexual relations.
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From http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/6/Q1/ which is a Yeshiva in Israel
"
A Curious, Wondering Jew writes:
Dear Rabbi,
Now that science has determined that homosexuality is genetically transmitted how does that affect the Jewish view of Homosexuals?
Thank you,
Dear Curious, Wondering, Jew,
Two points. First: Although there has been some research into the role genetics has on homosexuality, no conclusive evidence to support this claim has emerged. That some people have a predisposition to this kind of behavior is not in question, but the argument about its origins continues. Even if it was proven that homosexuality is genetically transmitted, that would not mean that we must condone the behavior. There are many conditions that are genetically transmitted (for example, color blindness) yet we continue to search for a way to overcome them.
Second: The Torah's view of Jewish homosexuals is that they are just as much a part of the community as everyone else. We have an obligation to treat them with the same respect and compassion that we must treat every other human being. What is objectionable in the eyes of the Torah is the particular sexual act, NOT the person. "Thou shalt not lie with a man after the manner of a woman: it is an abomination." The Torah is not judging the person; only the behavior.
The difficulty arises when people insist on identifying homosexuals exclusively by their sexual orientation. Then when the sexual behavior is condemned, this condemnation is transferred to their entire modus vivendi. Human beings are much more than their sexual behavior and must be treated that way.
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http://www.nishma.org/articles/update/updatejune92-homosexuality.htm
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Homosexuality: Is There a Unique Torah Perspective?
The modern permissive response to homosexuality presents a distinctive challenge for the modern Torah Jew. Clearly, without entering into the technical discussion of whether the prohibition involves only the act or also includes the condition, the Torah attitude is definite. The homosexual lifestyle is not an alternative. In our times, however, rather than coinciding with the moral views of the society that surrounds us, the Torah stand places us in conflict.
Maintaining a position that is contrary to the attitudes of others is not in itself a problem. Modern views of homosexuality, however, present a unique challenge because current legitimate information and understanding of the gay personality forces a new contemplation on the theory behind this law and, more specifically, on how we are to respond to the individual who finds himself or herself subject to this desire.
Throughout the ages, the prohibition of homosexuality was perceived as easily understood. Basing themselves on T.B. Nedarim 51a, commentators explained the act as unnatural, a perversion of the human sexual drive. Although Judaism understood sexuality as having a function beyond the procreative, it also understood that the reproductive factor was an inherent component. While the actual ability to have children in no way interfered with the permissiveness of the natural act (relations with a barren wife is permitted), an act that, by definition, totally ignores the reproductive factor could not be accepted or deemed a correct reflection of the human love that includes the sensual. The repulsion felt towards homosexuality was considered to be supportive of this analysis. See Sefer haChinuch, mitzva 209; Ramban, Vayikra 18:21. The law was not a chok, beyond human understanding, but rather a mishpat, in line with the moral logic within us. There was no need to further investigate the matter.
Today, however, the gay individual is perceived asa person desiring love and companionship, just like the heterosexual, but who can only find this connection with someone of the same sex. With some scientific and psychological justification, he or she is seen as someone subject to his/her homosexual drive. This may even be considered unfortunate; some homosexuals openly declare that they wish they were 'straight'. However, it is seen as the reality. As such, the modern response to homosexuality is one of sympathy and support.
While, we, in allegiance to Torah, cannot support this alternative, the valid reasons for sympathy for the homosexual's dilemma has initiated new discussion of the subject with specific focus on how to respond to the individual. Rabbi Norman Lamm in "Judaism and the Modern Attitude to Homosexuality", Encyclopedia Judaica Year Book 1974, introduced the concept of psychological ones, duress. Moshe Halevi Spero in Judaism and Psychology: Halakhic Perspectives, chapter 11 and Handbook of Psychotherapy and Jewish Ethics, chapter 8 built on his psychological models of sin and neurosis. Rabbi Barry Freundel in "Homosexuality and Judaism", Journal of Halacha and Contemporary Society, Number XI, called upon us to view and treat the homosexual within an atmosphere of kiruv and outreach, the same way we relate to other individuals who sin. The arguments are worthy of review and are catalysts for further discussion and debate. What criteria, for example, are to be employed to clarify when a person's inner drives approach the ones level? What comparisons are to be made between the unmarried heterosexual with no Halachically sanctioned outlet for his/her sexuality and the homosexual? There is, one issue, though, that is not addressed. Why did G-d create the homosexual drive? What is its purpose?
The simple understanding of the homosexual drive is that it is a perversion of heterosexuality. The many reasons explaining the prohibition clearly support the Torah sanction of sexuality only within the husband-wife/family context. Some modern research, however, points to a biological basis for the gay interest. A foundation of Jewish thought has always been that everything G-d created has a purpose (see T.B. Chulin 56b; Iggeret haKodesh,[--- Unable To Translate Graphic ---]chapter 2). The Vilna Gaon in Even Shelaima 1:7, building on T.B. Shabbat 156a, implies that every drive has some form of outlet that is acceptable within Torah. In Biur HaGra, Mishlei 22:6, the Gaon's position seems to be even stronger, that the challenge of man is not to destroy or ignore one's drives but to direct each of his/her drives towards the method of satisfaction that includes the service of G-d. What, than, is the Torah outlet for the homosexual drive? One could argue, simply, that it is heterosexuality. While healthy heterosexual conduct within marriage obviously would be part of the teshuva goal of the gay individual, can we say that homosexuality is merely an incorrect manifestation of the general sexual drive? How do we explain the modern research noted above? Must the Torah Jew side with the theorists that disregard the biological basis? Building on the attitude presented in the sources above, we may wish to argue that the gay individual is misreading and confusing two drives. He or she is ignoring a heterosexual drive while practising incorrect forms of satisfaction for what we have termed the homosexual drive. (It is interesting to note that there is psychological research that indicates, what is termed, a homosexual interest in the heterosexual individual - a concept that would support this hypothesis.) The solution, according to Torah, would be for this individual to connect with and correctly respond to his/her heterosexual drive, which does include permitted sexual behaviour,while finding the correct response for his/her homosexual drive, which, obviously, by this definition, is not really sexual in nature. Within the unique perspective of Torah, we may wish to argue that this drive represents something which is totally different than its common manifestation. When we consider that the actions of the murderer and the mohel are both deemed to derive from the same personality characteristic (T.B. Shabbat 156a), although to us they seem so apart in nature, this alternative is not so strange. What, however, could the true understanding of this drive possibly be? It is perhaps because he could find no answer to this question that Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggrot Moshe, Orach Chaim, Part 4, Responsa 115 adopted a very strong position against homosexuality. Human drives are necessary although they must be controlled. Since there is no purpose for the homosexual drive, Rav Moshe contends, it must not be a true drive. Therefore, the underlying reason for gay behaviour, he argues, must be to rebel against G-d, to wish to do something forbidden (perhaps, implying some innate knowledge of its forbidden nature). Rav Moshe's view must be respected, yet, given the new research findings, it may be our generation's challenge ( T.B. Chulin 6b-7a) to try and find the true nature of this drive. The task is obviously a most difficult one. In that the heterosexual may have no comprehension of this drive, it may necessitate a homosexual, fighting his/her own Torah battle, to solve this mystery.
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It is well known that that the Torah only forbids the actual act itself. What is important is what deeds are done.
All I have is one opinion, so far.
This is another example of the big gaping difference between your religion and Judaism. I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
That wasn't called for, but I know how you feel about my doctrine already.
This is why Judaism doesn't have Rabbis preaching eternal hell for all transgression.
Again this is just one opinion. I don't know what the Torah/Talmud says for myself, and would want to hear several different Jewish opinions on it therefore.
Because Christianity doesn't have 613 mitzvahs it is very easy to call yourself righteous without doing a whole heck of a lot.
Completely unfounded and uncalled for. Judaism holds that the Seven Noahide Laws are the bare minimum that is required for salvation, at least for Gentiles. Christianity goes beyond the seven laws.
There is no difference in Torah between one who eats non-Kosher food and a homosexual as both are denying G-ds word just the same.
If you are telling me that sin is sin is sin, yeah I agree. Christianity does not argue that some sins are worse than others either, for the most part.
I suspect you don't keep Kosher, and I suspect you don't observe Shabbat, so you know what I am saying here.
According to both Torah Judaism and Christianity, observation of all of Mosaic Law is not necessary for the salvation for all persons.
It seems you have gaping wholes in your understanding of Jewish theology and it shows...
I admitted to not knowing much about Jewish theology; that was never in dispute. What I strongly doubt is that the Sages would ever look kindly upon willful homosexual fantasy (or fantasies of adultery, or murder, or any other evil thing).
PS: C.F. Chaim is not Hashem... Hashem gave us Torah and it is clear, for 3500 years that what I am saying is true. If you want more proof I can send it to you.
Where did I deny that Torah is true?
You are out of control in your rage against homosexuals.
I am raging against celebrities that are promoting harlotry and perversion.
There are gays who are working on fixing themselves.
Megan Fox is certainly not one of them. If she does teshuva I will be the first person to stop attacking her.
I think because you believe in a physical Satan you take it out on everyone you think is quote-unquote Satanic {whatever that means}.
That is irrelevant; whatever the source of a person's evil is, if it is there, G-d condemns it. And no, I don't think Satan does anything except that which G-d allows.
PPS: By your own quote you condemned yourself. (You have looked at and lusted for Condi Rice, and you admit it).
Quite false; I said I found her attractive, not that I delight in pretending that I have sex with her.
You my friend are a sinner and will burn in hell for eternity because you look at women.
I do not respond to personal insults, especially baseless ones such as these.
You have posted multiple posts with pictures of scantily clad women and you are causing others to sin.
Again quite false; I posted one picture of Vanessa Hudgens and Chaim told me to take it down. Also note that I agreed with you when Americanhero posted the picture of Fox, and asked him to take it down. Go back and look for yourself; it's on the first page.
My G-d I hope you pray for your soul.
Muman, conversion activities are not permitted on this forum.
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I suppose according to your belief that I am a sinner because in my mind I desire a cheeseburger w/bacon.... But I haven't had one in over seven years... And I dont think I will ever have a Bacon Cheeseburger again...
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C.F.,
Some of my comments were meant as sarcasm... Im sorry I didn't make it more clear. Also I am not trying to convert you or anything. I am just trying to tell you what the Jewish understanding of Homosexuality is. I have quoted Four sources and have found 100s of others which say the same thing which I have already written.
I dont have hostility towards any other religion... My 'trouble' comes when I read these posts which condemn a good number of people who may be righteous. Remember that Abraham prayed for Sodom, not for the evil people, but for the righteous ones. It must have been very challenging to be righteous in a place like Sodom... Abraham was not able to find 10 righteous souls...
I have heard other Christians express the same idea... "Hate the sin, not the sinner" and this is basically the Jewish perspective. People struggle with many tests and I understand that some may be confused about their sexual orientation {especially in this society}. I walk a balanced approach in that I condemn the act and advise all to avoid the temptation of any sexual immorality. I have struggled with Pornography in the past and it is always hard when images are broadcast on TV and the internet... Because I see my struggle I have compassion on others.
We are to be like Hashem... The middot {character trait} we should emulate is the trait of Rachamim {Compassion} and Chesed {Kindness}. We are not supposed to emulate Hashems attributes of retribution and anger.
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/181/Q5/
Asher Kassel from Rehovot, Israel wrote:
Dear Rabbi,
How do we know that the directive to emulate Hashem's attributes is limited only to the so-called "good" attributes of Hashem (the 13 midot)? What about attributes such as anger, vengeance, etc.?
Dear Asher Kassel,
Actually, we are supposed to emulate all of Hashem's attributes. There is a time and place for anger, such as Pinchas's attack on Zimri and Cozbi. There is even a place for revenge, such as Jacob's sons' revenge against Shechem, and the Jewish People's revenge against Midian.
However, these attributes must only be used according to the dictates of halacha. We're not omniscient, so we don't always know all the relevant factors and consequences. Therefore, we need extreme caution and Torah guidance in these matters.
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Having said this I am also very clear that Homosexuality is a sin against G-d and should be removed from the world. But I will not condemn every gay person to the same judgment. Remember we are not the judges of other people and Judaism teaches that we should judge ourselves first, make ourselves perfect, then we can judge. Unless people are able to judge fairly they themselves are guilty of a bigger sin than homosexuality.
I rail against homosexuals who are trying to normalize it and make it palatable to young people. But my doing so does not involve any hatred of the people who are caught up in the sin. Society is not at a high level now and people may be naive about the truth {Torah}.
There is a big difference in Jewish thought and Christian thought about it... It has to do with what Torah says about Jews and sexual relations.
Muman, I thought that I made clear that a big part of the reason why I hate people like Fox so much is that they are helping to murder the souls of people who are desperately trying to get out of their cycles of sin. There are good and righteous sisters out there who unfortunately do struggle with bisexuality. How do you think the example set by Fox (especially her saying that it is normal and boasting about her own sodomite behavior) affects them? Of course I do not hate people with sexual addictions that are trying to recover! I am actually friends with a very righteous Christian girl who is recovering from same-sex attraction. She is working very hard to defeat this aspect of the sin nature; how do you think people like Megan Fox can influence them except for the negative?
Megan Fox is not someone who is fighting to overcome her homosexuality, but rather flaunts it and shoves it down everybody's throat. Unless she does repentance/teshuva, she is going to hell.
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I suppose according to your belief that I am a sinner because in my mind I desire a cheeseburger w/bacon.... But I haven't had one in over seven years... And I dont think I will ever have a Bacon Cheeseburger again...
Not my business either way; this is between you and G-d.
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I have heard other Christians express the same idea... "Hate the sin, not the sinner" and this is basically the Jewish perspective. People struggle with many tests and I understand that some may be confused about their sexual orientation {especially in this society}. I walk a balanced approach in that I condemn the act and advise all to avoid the temptation of any sexual immorality. I have struggled with Pornography in the past and it is always hard when images are broadcast on TV and the internet... Because I see my struggle I have compassion on others.
Muman, this phrase is an overused Christianese cliche and I do not necessarily hold to it verbatim, but there is some validity to it. I would rephrase it to say "Hate willful sin, love the person who is trying not to sin." The difference between you, who struggled with sexual sin in the past, and someone like Fox is that the latter is embracing their vile, animal wickedness and promoting it as normal to the world, and especially to ignorant, secular American youth (many of who are secular Jews and Christians) who do not know any better and are not prepared to resist it. I have struggled with sexual sin too and it is a big part of the reason why I despise proud harlots like Fox. Like I said before, if I see any evidence of Fox leaving, or even trying to leave, her lifestyle, I will be the first to suspend attacks on her.
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C.F.,
Now that you relate this story I understand more... I do agree it is wrong to lead youngsters astray. This is the sin 'placing a stumbling block before the blind'. I have written many scathing anti-homosexual creeds on SFgate (The SF Chronicles web page) and I am hated there by all the homos. But I always try to explain to them that they are not forced to act, they can have control over their urges. I do not hate them because some may wake up and realize that they are on the wrong path. I believe that Homosexual Jews should be reached out to..
There is an organization I have seen advertised on A7 news (IsraelNationalNews) called Narth..
http://www.narth.com/docs/torah.html
Excerpt:
Actions and Fantasies
Rabbi Rosenberg points out that the Torah strongly forbids the act of homosexuality precisely because it recognizes the capacity of anyone to commit such an act. Although the Toranic prohibition relates to actions, not thoughts, JONAH recognizes the need to work also with individuals who struggle with homosexual thoughts and impulses but do not act out their homosexual fantasies or identify with the gay lifestyle.
"Jewish ethics require us to offer assistance to those who struggle with homosexuality and to understand how to help men and women with same-sex attractions. In today's society, it is important to offer solutions to problems; otherwise, one becomes part of the problem," he says. "We must repeatedly remind ourselves that, in the Torah, it is not the person, but the act that is abhorred. Moreover, even after the act, we have the obligation to promote teshuva ('return') and not censure by the family, leaders, and community."
The spiritual leader of the Elmora Hebrew Center, Rabbi Rosenberg is a licensed social worker and psychotherapist who was trained at the Family Institute of New Jersey. He received his Master's degree in social work from the Wurzweiler School of Social Work of Yeshiva University, and is currently an advanced degree candidate at the Contemporary Center for Advanced Psychoanalytic Studies.
This organization helps them fight against their perversion.
I think we agree that it is wrong... I just try to be more understanding in the hopes that some may do Teshuva.
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Let me just add one more thought... In my youth I thought I knew it all... I rebelled against my mother and father when I moved out of the house at age 18. I got into so much trouble and I still thought I was right and the world was wrong. I did many 'bad' things and I even tried to legalize the thing I was involved with. Now that they are talking about legalizing it (Obama wants to legalize pot) I am fully against it. I did a great deal of changing of my personal values when I did Teshuva... My world changed in leaps and bounds in a short period of three years.
Youth today is very vulnerable because I think our generation has not really done its job of passing on the wisdom which we should have learned. It will take a lot of work to return the world to the state which Hashem wants in order for him to send Moshiach.
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Muman, I don't hate gay people at all in and of themselves. I hate anybody who embraces and loves sin and promotes it as a good thing to gullible, ignorant young humanity. I have had homosexual friends in the past and never once did I give them a moral lecture, believe it or not. If G-d wanted me to condemn them, he would have put me in a place to preach to them. That did not happen. What Megan Fox does is a thousand times worse than being privately homosexual, even being privately unrepentantly homosexual. As soon as I see some repentance out of her, I will cease cursing her.
I am very glad to see that you got out of your sinful lifestyle, but there are millions of people who are still wallowing in their own vomit, and people like Fox just help to keep them there.
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Muman, I don't hate gay people at all in and of themselves. I hate anybody who embraces and loves sin and promotes it as a good thing to gullible, ignorant young humanity. I have had homosexual friends in the past and never once did I give them a moral lecture, believe it or not. If G-d wanted me to condemn them, he would have put me in a place to preach to them. That did not happen. What Megan Fox does is a thousand times worse than being privately homosexual, even being privately unrepentantly homosexual. As soon as I see some repentance out of her, I will cease cursing her.
I am very glad to see that you got out of your sinful lifestyle, but there are millions of people who are still wallowing in their own vomit, and people like Fox just help to keep them there.
I do agree it is wrong to promote sin... But who is responsible for this? The temptation will exist with or without FOX. These issues have existed for thousands of years and I doubt that any individual will be able to make people homosexual. As others said here it is either you are or you aren't. Should I be angry when I turn on the TV and I see a "Bacon Bits commercial", followed by a "Burger King Cheeseburger commercial", followed by a commercial for an online dating site? {Actually this happened to me last week}. When I turn on TV I am BOMBARDED by messages which go against Torah and sometimes the urge to eat a cheeseburger enters my mind. It seemed to me Satan was talking to ME saying look at this world where temptation exists at every turn... I wear my Tzit-Tzits (Ritual Fringes) because we wear them to keep our eyes and ears away from things which will lead us astray. The tzittzits also remind us of ALL the commandments (613) because of the # of knots and strings.
Tzitzit and Tallit
The Torah also commands us to wear tzitzit (fringes) at the corners of our garments as a reminder of the commandments (Numbers 15,37-41). This commandment only applies to four-cornered garments, which were common in biblical times but are not common anymore. Observant Jewish men commonly wear a special four-cornered garment, similar to a poncho, called a tallit katan, so that they will have the opportunity to fulfill this important commandment. The tallit katan is typically worn under the shirt, with the tzitzit hanging out so they can be seen. A larger four-cornered shawl called a tallit (pictured above) is worn by men during morning services, along with the tefillin, though they should be worn in all prayer services at the very least. There are several complex customs for tying the knots of the tzitzit, each filled with religious and numerological significance.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/110307/jewish/Some-Basic-Laws-of-Tzitzith.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/110305/jewish/The-Purpose.htm
The Mitzvah of Tzitzith is mentioned twice in the Torah:
"...they are to make for themselves, throughout their generations, Tzitzith upon the corners of their garments, and to put with the Tzitzith of each corner a thread o f blue. And it shall be unto you for Tzitzith, and you shall look upon it and remember all the commandments o f the L-rd, and do them, and you will not follow your heart and your eyes, after which you go astray; so that you will remember and do all My commandments and be holy unto your G-d..."
Numbers XV: 38ff.
"You shall make for yourself twisted cords upon the four corners of your covering, wherewith you cover yourself."
Deuteronomy XXII: 12
The Torah itself thus explains the purpose of this Mitzvah. In the first passage quoted we find both immediate and long-term aims. The immediate aims consist of one positive and one negative principle:
a) The sight of the Tzitzith is to remind us of all the commandments so that we observe them, and
b) To prevent us from following the inclinations of our heart and eyes which tend to lead us to faithlessness.
The long-term aim is again two-fold:
a) To remember and observe the commands of G-d; and
b) To elevate ourselves to a level of sanctity, to be holy unto G-d.
Just how these simple fringes are attached to our garments to effect so great and all-encompassing a goal? How can the sight of the Tzitzith help us to realize our spiritual selves and to attain our object of human perfection? To understand this we need to probe somewhat deeper into the symbolic aspects of this precept. Our probing will reveal that few commandments are so rich in symbolism; few commandments contain so many allusions and reminders as this Mitzvah. And once we learn to recognize and appreciate these symbols and allusions, we will understand the efficacy of Tzitzith and why it has been said that this single precept is equivalent to all the Mitzvoth of the Torah. (Menachoth 43b)
...
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Muman, the cheeseburger temptation is something that is unique to Jews. In and of itself, promoting non-kosher food in society isn't sinful. Even promoting a dating site is not sinful (depending on what the content of that site is, of course). I'll just focus on those sins that are common to both Judaism and Christianity, or the Seven Noahide Laws, if you will. So, let's just go with sexual temptation. As a Christian, yeah, I would say that Satan may well be tempting you to sin (with the understanding that you have the power to resist him completely, because just like him, you have free will, and the understanding that he does not do anything that G-d allows), and then again, the temptation may purely come from your own heart and desires. The bottom line is that we have free will to indulge in or practice (or not) any sin.
Desire to sin that randomly and involuntarily pops into our mind: not sinful from either a Jewish (as far as I understand it) or Christian perspective. At this stage we can choose to get rid of the evil thought. The Christian Scripture that is used to address the matter is 2 Corinthians 10:5.
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of G-d, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Decision to indulge thought of sin: sinful
Decision to actually commit that sin: obviously sinful
Decision to go out and promote that sin as a good thing: the worst possible thing
The tzitzits/tefillim are something that are outside of my range of knowledge and experience, but I will do my best to comment intelligently upon their use from a Christian view. I would say, and I think most Christians would agree, that any action, practice, or object that helps a person to stay focused on G-d and flee from temptation is laudable and beneficial.
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It would be impossible to rid the world of all temptations. The trick is to decide your either going to indulge or move on to bigger and better things. Cheese burgers are nasty anyway I myself would not give them a second thought. From what you say you have seen the pitfalls of going astray so that in itself should help you to now remain strong. Temptation is not all its cracked up to be.
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It is well known that that the Torah only forbids the actual act itself. What is important is what deeds are done.. This is another example of the big gaping difference between your religion and Judaism. I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is why Judaism doesn't have Rabbis preaching eternal hell for all transgression. Because Christianity doesn't have 613 mitzvahs it is very easy to call yourself righteous without doing a whole heck of a lot. There is no difference in Torah between one who eats non-Kosher food and a homosexual as both are denying G-ds word just the same. I suspect you don't keep Kosher, and I suspect you don't observe Shabbat, so you know what I am saying here.[/b]
It seems you have gaping wholes in your understanding of Jewish theology and it shows...
PS: C.F. Chaim is not Hashem... Hashem gave us Torah and it is clear, for 3500 years that what I am saying is true. If you want more proof I can send it to you... You are out of control in your rage against homosexuals. There are gays who are working on fixing themselves. I think because you believe in a physical Satan you take it out on everyone you think is quote-unquote Satanic {whatever that means}.
PPS: By your own quote you condemned yourself. (You have looked at and lusted for Condi Rice, and you admit it). You my friend are a sinner and will burn in hell for eternity because you look at women... You have posted multiple posts with pictures of scantily clad women and you are causing others to sin... My G-d I hope you pray for your soul.
Muman, you seem like a good guy. But you cannot go around taking passive/aggressive jabs at Christianity, especially being that you're a moderator here.
You wrote the following:
I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is a passive/agressive jab if I ever saw one. Don't think it goes unnoticed. How would you like it if someone were to say to you, "I won't tell you what I think of the Jewish religion because you would be offended?" You would correctly take that as an insult. Now I'm sure you'll say to me "Lisa, this is a Jewish forum." That is true. But we have many wonderful non-Jewish members. So why do you make passing derogatory comments about their religion when they sincerely believe in what JTF is trying to accomplish? How many mainstream Jews do you think would be as supportive of JTF, as good Christians like Chaimfan and others here? So what were you thinking by telling Chaimfan that he's going to burn in hell?
Now if you personally don't want to work with Christians, that's your business. But on this forum, I will thank you to politely agree to disagree on matters of theology.
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It is well known that that the Torah only forbids the actual act itself. What is important is what deeds are done.. This is another example of the big gaping difference between your religion and Judaism. I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is why Judaism doesn't have Rabbis preaching eternal hell for all transgression. Because Christianity doesn't have 613 mitzvahs it is very easy to call yourself righteous without doing a whole heck of a lot. There is no difference in Torah between one who eats non-Kosher food and a homosexual as both are denying G-ds word just the same. I suspect you don't keep Kosher, and I suspect you don't observe Shabbat, so you know what I am saying here.[/b]
It seems you have gaping wholes in your understanding of Jewish theology and it shows...
PS: C.F. Chaim is not Hashem... Hashem gave us Torah and it is clear, for 3500 years that what I am saying is true. If you want more proof I can send it to you... You are out of control in your rage against homosexuals. There are gays who are working on fixing themselves. I think because you believe in a physical Satan you take it out on everyone you think is quote-unquote Satanic {whatever that means}.
PPS: By your own quote you condemned yourself. (You have looked at and lusted for Condi Rice, and you admit it). You my friend are a sinner and will burn in hell for eternity because you look at women... You have posted multiple posts with pictures of scantily clad women and you are causing others to sin... My G-d I hope you pray for your soul.
Muman, you seem like a good guy. But you cannot go around taking passive/aggressive jabs at Christianity, especially being that you're a moderator here.
You wrote the following:
I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is a passive/agressive jab if I ever saw one. Don't think it goes unnoticed. How would you like it if someone were to say to you, "I won't tell you what I think of the Jewish religion because you would be offended?" You would correctly take that as an insult. Now I'm sure you'll say to me "Lisa, this is a Jewish forum." That is true. But we have many wonderful non-Jewish members. So why do you make passing derogatory comments about their religion when they sincerely believe in what JTF is trying to accomplish? How many mainstream Jews do you think would be as supportive of JTF, as good Christians like Chaimfan and others here? So what were you thinking by telling Chaimfan that he's going to burn in hell?
Now if you personally don't want to work with Christians, that's your business. But on this forum, I will thank you to politely agree to disagree on matters of theology.
Lisa, thanks so much for posting this. It is exactly what I wanted to say but wouldn't because I am trying not to get into conflicts on this forum anymore. I believe the environment here could be better for our righteous gentile zionist supporters. I always feel terrible when I see our gentile supporters being personally attacked. I really hope things go back to the good old days when everyone got along here.
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Muman, you seem like a good guy. But you cannot go around taking passive/aggressive jabs at Christianity, especially being that you're a moderator here.
You wrote the following:
I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is a passive/agressive jab if I ever saw one. Don't think it goes unnoticed. How would you like it if someone were to say to you, "I won't tell you what I think of the Jewish religion because you would be offended?" You would correctly take that as an insult. Now I'm sure you'll say to me "Lisa, this is a Jewish forum." That is true. But we have many wonderful non-Jewish members. So why do you make passing derogatory comments about their religion when they sincerely believe in what JTF is trying to accomplish? How many mainstream Jews do you think would be as supportive of JTF, as good Christians like Chaimfan and others here? So what were you thinking by telling Chaimfan that he's going to burn in hell?
Now if you personally don't want to work with Christians, that's your business. But on this forum, I will thank you to politely agree to disagree on matters of theology.
Thanks, Lisa, I do appreciate it, but we already took care of it. I thank you though for being diligent in monitoring the forum and always trying to make peace.
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I am not against Christians at all. I get frustrated when I have explained over and over, and cited several examples of what Jewish thought on the topic is. There are some very obvious differences in the religion of Judaism and the other religions.
I believe JTF will succeed if we bring more Jews to understand the Jewish thought process as evolved from much Torah learning. We have been given 'the blueprint' for how to live. Torah is more than just a holy scripture it is the secret to living a wholesome life. The other religions have taken these ideas and distorted them and religious Jews believe that it is our mission to bring ALL the Jews back to Judaism through observance of mitzvot.
Regarding the topic of cursing all homosexuals I will once again say that people are judged by their action not on their thoughts. Being compassionate to the person who questions his sexuality is the best thing, not pushing him away so that he might sin again. I believe the Jewish solution, through the lens of Torah study, is very just and very fair. In Torah all sin is meted Midah kenneged Midah {Measure for Measure} but we don't know which commands relate to which reward.
I am very proud of C.F. for not lashing back at me concerning that statement. The fact is that while I have no problem with Christians I do have a big problem with leading Jews to assimilation. I am very cognizant of the problem which is virtually annihilating the Jewish people, much more ravaging than Hissssler himself, and it is Jewish men 'marrying' non-Jewish women. I hope that our friendly relationship here would not lead to such things.
It is good that JTF maintains a seperate Jewish and Gentile dating section which should work {if the user is really only looking in the appropriate section}. I am also afraid that many Jews who live in primarily Christian countries end up with spiritual vision which immitates Christianity instead of their true spiritual heritage of Judaism. This is why I resent the Christmases... The Channukah Bushes... The presents on Channukah to immitate Christmas, etc. I resent that Jewish children are losing their heritage because Jewish people are living in Galut {exile}. I resent that Israelis leave Israel because they want to fit into the western image of hip and cool.
Only when Jews stick to Jewish ideas does the Jewish nation have chance. The only reason Jews should be in Israel is to fufill the mission which Hashem tasked Bnai Yisroel with, to inherit the land and be a holy nation, a nation of priests and princesses. If the Jewish nation does not fufill the commands as Hashem gave us we were promised we would be spit out of the land. I want the Jewish people to do Teshuva, to sing once again the Song of the L-rd. If we should rebuild the Temple and devote our souls to glorifying his name do you think we will not merit Moshiach? It has been argued that we must wait for Moshiach before rebuilding but I am one who argues against that. I think he will come if we build it...
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Muman, the fact is that Christianity denounces assimilation and intermarriage just as much as Judaism. Shlomo put it perfectly when he mentioned that we oppose being "unequally yoked" in the Torah forum. Countless thousands, if not millions, of Christians have been lost forever to hedonistic Western secularism just as many Jews have been. There is a spiritual holocaust attacking us, too.
Here are New Testament verses denouncing Christian intermarriage:
A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to Christ.
We have the right to take a believing wife with us like the other apostles...
Christianity does not support its believers intermarrying with Jews or people of any other faith. The "Christian" culture that you fear is made up of self-hating, nominal, secular "Christians". I know that Judaism's collective experience with so-called Christian society has been a nightmare beyond anything words can describe, but it needs to be known that medieval pogromist regimes and postmodern secular Western civilization are both about as Christian as an ADL meeting about showing tolerance for Islam at a Deformed synagogue that serves shrimp appetizers is Jewish.
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Muman, you seem like a good guy. But you cannot go around taking passive/aggressive jabs at Christianity, especially being that you're a moderator here.
You wrote the following:
I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is a passive/agressive jab if I ever saw one. Don't think it goes unnoticed. How would you like it if someone were to say to you, "I won't tell you what I think of the Jewish religion because you would be offended?" You would correctly take that as an insult. Now I'm sure you'll say to me "Lisa, this is a Jewish forum." That is true. But we have many wonderful non-Jewish members. So why do you make passing derogatory comments about their religion when they sincerely believe in what JTF is trying to accomplish? How many mainstream Jews do you think would be as supportive of JTF, as good Christians like Chaimfan and others here? So what were you thinking by telling Chaimfan that he's going to burn in hell?
Now if you personally don't want to work with Christians, that's your business. But on this forum, I will thank you to politely agree to disagree on matters of theology.
I will speak on Nadav's behalf... stop defending the goyim!
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Muman, you seem like a good guy. But you cannot go around taking passive/aggressive jabs at Christianity, especially being that you're a moderator here.
You wrote the following:
I will not tell you what I think about the Christian doctrine because you would be offended.
This is a passive/agressive jab if I ever saw one. Don't think it goes unnoticed. How would you like it if someone were to say to you, "I won't tell you what I think of the Jewish religion because you would be offended?" You would correctly take that as an insult. Now I'm sure you'll say to me "Lisa, this is a Jewish forum." That is true. But we have many wonderful non-Jewish members. So why do you make passing derogatory comments about their religion when they sincerely believe in what JTF is trying to accomplish? How many mainstream Jews do you think would be as supportive of JTF, as good Christians like Chaimfan and others here? So what were you thinking by telling Chaimfan that he's going to burn in hell?
Now if you personally don't want to work with Christians, that's your business. But on this forum, I will thank you to politely agree to disagree on matters of theology.
I will speak on Nadav's behalf... stop defending the goyim!
Are you being funny Vito?
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Umm, unless Catholic Italians are now included under the definition of Jewry, I would venture a yes. :laugh:
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I can't stand homosexual perverts and I have nothing to do with them at all. I stay as far away from them as possible. The people you hang around are the people you become like and I choose not to associate with them. I'm not really sure why you feel a need to defend them.
Muman, you always sound like you talk down to gentiles or Christians and this is very wrong behavior. We are supposed to be a light to the nations - not a bunch of elitists that hurt righteous gentiles that Hashem loves. G-d forbid, we could hurt them so they turn against the Jewish people or give up hope on being righteous. I'm not pleased with this type of destructive attitude that always has to make slams on the Christian members of the forum. They love G-d and are here to help.
Lastly, let's drop the hollywood obsession here. Who cares about this crap? I don't even have a TV and haven't seen a movie in almost a year. My life is better without such wasted time. People love to entertain themselves to death rather than fight for the causes that matter. I wish most people would watch less TV and spend more time reading the Bible or doing things that matter.
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I can't stand homosexual perverts and I have nothing to do with them at all. I stay as far away from them as possible. The people you hang around are the people you become like and I choose not to associate with them. I'm not really sure why you feel a need to defend them.
Muman, you always sound like you talk down to gentiles or Christians and this is very wrong behavior. We are supposed to be a light to the nations - not a bunch of elitists that hurt righteous gentiles that Hashem loves. G-d forbid, we could hurt them so they turn against the Jewish people or give up hope on being righteous. I'm not pleased with this type of destructive attitude that always has to make slams on the Christian members of the forum. They love G-d and are here to help.
Lastly, let's drop the hollywood obsession here. Who cares about this crap? I don't even have a TV and haven't seen a movie in almost a year. My life is better without such wasted time. People love to entertain themselves to death rather than fight for the causes that matter. I wish most people would watch less TV and spend more time reading the Bible or doing things that matter.
C.F. you should have a Hollywood Gossip Column.
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C.F., like I said before, you're giving this young woman too much power by repeatedly writing about her. I agree with you that she's an immoral floozie. But immoral floozies are nothing new. They've always existed, and they (unfortunately) always will. Prostitution is world's oldest profession. If Fox wasn't posing in nudie mens magazines, I assure you, some other woman would be doing the same thing.
But people have free will. The entertainment industry is not responsible for raising our kids. Parents need to be proactive in setting a good moral example for their children by either home schooling them and/or limiting their television exposure.
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Lastly, let's drop the hollywood obsession here. Who cares about this crap? I don't even have a TV and haven't seen a movie in almost a year. My life is better without such wasted time. People love to entertain themselves to death rather than fight for the causes that matter. I wish most people would watch less TV and spend more time reading the Bible or doing things that matter.
Shlomo, I understand where you are coming from but this is news, and I thought that JTF has a moral calling to comment on all the news. I only make threads like this about once a week. I realize that you dislike the word "whore" and so lately have tried to find classier words with the same meaning (harlot, trollop, etc.). Are these threads actually in violation of a forum rule? I could see if I was putting up dozens of threads like this but on average I only do about once a week. I would reckon that they are only about 10% of my threads.
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C.F., like I said before, you're giving this young woman too much power by repeatedly writing about her. I agree with you that she's an immoral floozie. But immoral floozies are nothing new. They've always existed, and they (unfortunately) always will. Prostitution is world's oldest profession. If Fox wasn't posing in nudie mens magazines, I assure you, some other woman would be doing the same thing.
But people have free will. The entertainment industry is not responsible for raising our kids. Parents need to be proactive in setting a good moral example for their children by either home schooling them and/or limiting their television exposure.
I don't think the only way to raise a good and moral child is homeschooling(an excellent alternative to public education I'm sure) or keeping them unaware of what is currently happening in their world.
Parents must be good role models. They must talk to their children about right and wrong. They must set limits and expectations. You can't hide your children under a rock.
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C.F., like I said before, you're giving this young woman too much power by repeatedly writing about her. I agree with you that she's an immoral floozie. But immoral floozies are nothing new. They've always existed, and they (unfortunately) always will. Prostitution is world's oldest profession. If Fox wasn't posing in nudie mens magazines, I assure you, some other woman would be doing the same thing.
But people have free will. The entertainment industry is not responsible for raising our kids. Parents need to be proactive in setting a good moral example for their children by either home schooling them and/or limiting their television exposure.
I don't think the only way to raise a good and moral child is homeschooling(an excellent alternative to public education I'm sure) or keeping them unaware of what is currently happening in their world.
Parents must be good role models. They must talk to their children about right and wrong. They must set limits and expectations. You can't hide your children under a rock.
Don't forget when kids do something wrong they need a good butt whooping
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C.F., like I said before, you're giving this young woman too much power by repeatedly writing about her. I agree with you that she's an immoral floozie. But immoral floozies are nothing new. They've always existed, and they (unfortunately) always will. Prostitution is world's oldest profession. If Fox wasn't posing in nudie mens magazines, I assure you, some other woman would be doing the same thing.
But people have free will. The entertainment industry is not responsible for raising our kids. Parents need to be proactive in setting a good moral example for their children by either home schooling them and/or limiting their television exposure.
I don't think the only way to raise a good and moral child is homeschooling(an excellent alternative to public education I'm sure) or keeping them unaware of what is currently happening in their world.
Parents must be good role models. They must talk to their children about right and wrong. They must set limits and expectations. You can't hide your children under a rock.
Don't forget when kids do something wrong they need a good butt whooping
At least they should have a healthy fear that they might get an arse whooping. 8;)
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Lisa and Bullcat, you can't raise your kids in a hermetic vacuum. Sooner or later, even the most devoutly raised Christian or Jewish children will learn who the vile prostitute Megan Fox (yimach schma vezichra--may the name of the wicked rot in hell) is and will wonder what to do with her mentally speaking. It is true that kids that are raised correctly are far more likely to reject these human abominations than mindless secular youth, but the fact of the matter is that there will always be people who, despite the best efforts of their parents, are too stupid and rebellious for these values to sink in. What then? Megan Fox is urging young women to all be bisexuals, and is deliberately feeding a perverse sexual fantasy that unfortunately many males have in our culture today (thanks to constant bombardment by movies, music, magazines, and porn). If G-d took Fox tomorrow via a rapidly-spreading ovarian abscess, it wouldn't be soon enough.
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Lisa and Bullcat, you can't raise your kids in a hermetic vacuum. Sooner or later, even the most devoutly raised Christian or Jewish children will learn who the vile prostitute Megan Fox (yimach schma vezichra--may the name of the wicked rot in hell) is and will wonder what to do with her mentally speaking. It is true that kids that are raised correctly are far more likely to reject these human abominations than mindless secular youth, but the fact of the matter is that there will always be people who, despite the best efforts of their parents, are too stupid and rebellious for these values to sink in. What then? Megan Fox is urging young women to all be bisexuals, and is deliberately feeding a perverse sexual fantasy that unfortunately many males have in our culture today (thanks to constant bombardment by movies, music, magazines, and porn). If G-d took Fox tomorrow via a rapidly-spreading ovarian abscess, it wouldn't be soon enough.
Your right, C.F..
There are many evil influences in today's society.
Yet, I can't shield my child from all of them.
That is not realistic.
Therefore, I try to be the best role model I can.
I teach her religion instruction class, attend the PTA and volunteer often.
We are very involved with the local senior and veteran groups.
What better role models can there be?
She helps deliver meals on wheels. Has done so from birth(in a car seat). She loves the homebound people we deliver to.
Hopefully - the moral people that she is growing up around will be the people she will emmulate.
When I see things that are evil or immoral, I point that out to her. I also explain the consequences that come with following that path.
As for Megan Fox. I don't wish any evil to befall her. If she lives her life in an evil way...she will have to live with the consequences.
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Evil probably already has befallen this beast in the form of methicillin-resistant syphilis and HPV.