JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Americanhero1 on March 23, 2009, 09:41:47 AM
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JERUSALEM – Israel's military condemned on Monday T-shirts worn by soldiers that depict scenes of violence against Palestinians as the army faces increasing domestic criticism over its conduct during the recent Gaza war.
The T-shirts, ordered by troops to mark the end of basic training and other military courses, were worn by a number of enlisted men in different units, the daily Haaretz newspaper reported. They were not made or sanctioned by the military.
One depicts a child in the cross-hairs of a rifle with the slogan, "The smaller they are, the harder it is," said one of T-shirts shown in Haaretz. Another shows a pregnant woman in the cross-hairs and the words "1 Shot 2 Kills." Others depict a soldier blowing up a mosque and Palestinian women weeping over a gravestone.
The Tel Aviv factory that made many of the shirts, Adiv, refused to comment.
The shirts "are not in accordance with IDF values and are simply tasteless," the army said in a statement. "This type of humor is unbecoming and should be condemned."
The statement said disciplinary action would be taken against troops wearing the T-shirts.
The Israeli military has been facing increased criticism at home for its conduct in Gaza in the aftermath of published testimony from several unidentified soldiers released last week.
The soldiers' testimony described troops killing Palestinian civilians, including children, by hastily opening fire under relaxed rules of engagement. The soldiers also reported the wanton destruction of civilian property.
The three-week Gaza offensive, launched to end years of rocket fire at Israeli towns, ended on Jan. 18. According to Palestinian officials, around 1,400 Palestinians were killed, most of them civilians. Thirteen Israelis died, three of them civilians.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090323/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_shocking_shirts
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Tasteless to say the least.
These t-shirts should be banned.
The soldiers who wear/wore these shirts should also receive some sort of punishment.
I don't understand the mentality of these soldiers who want to draw negative attention to the army they serve in and the country they represent.
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Tasteless to say the least.
These t-shirts should be banned.
The soldiers who wear/wore these shirts should also receive some sort of punishment.
I don't understand the mentality of these soldiers who want to draw negative attention to the army they serve in and the country they represent.
Are you crazy? Would you also object to shirts with dead SS members on them?
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Where can I get one of those t-shirts?
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Tasteless to say the least.
These t-shirts should be banned.
The soldiers who wear/wore these shirts should also receive some sort of punishment.
I don't understand the mentality of these soldiers who want to draw negative attention to the army they serve in and the country they represent.
Depicting children in the crosshairs of a gun and joking about how hard it is to kill them...seems beneath decent people. Even if it is a fact about a war on terror that children, do, and will die.
I know that won't be a popular sentiment here.
As a mother...it's how I feel.
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I made my previous comment about the soldiers wearing the anti Palestinian shirts, with a different point in mind.
With all the recent reports coming out from Israeli soldiers stating how the Israeli armies were slaughtering civilians in Gaza.
I feel that it would be better not to add fuel to the fire.
Because as we all know, the unchained liberal media will latch on to this story, run with it, turning it into something it isn't, as well as validating the soldiers' accounts of inhumane treatment of the Gazan civilians.
And we all know that this will spread like wildfire throughout the world through every media outlet.
Making Israel look like the enemy and Hamas as the poor victims.
Anyone who has read any of my posts, knows I am against Arabs living in Israel and that I have extreme hatred for Islam in any form.
Just as Muslims use propaganda to their advantage, Israel should do the same, that's why I said the soldiers should not wear or use discretion when wearing these type of shirts.
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I made my previous comment about the soldiers wearing the anti Palestinian shirts, with a different point in mind.
With all the recent reports coming out from Israeli soldiers stating how the Israeli armies were slaughtering civilians in Gaza.
I feel that it would be better not to add fuel to the fire.
Because as we all know, the unchained liberal media will latch on to this story, run with it, turning it into something it isn't, as well as validating the soldiers' accounts of inhumane treatment of the Gazan civilians.
And we all know that this will spread like wildfire throughout the world through every media outlet.
Making Israel look like the enemy and Hamas as the poor victims.
Anyone who has read any of my posts, knows I am against Arabs living in Israel and that I have extreme hatred for Islam in any form.
Just as Muslims use propaganda to their advantage, Israel should do the same, that's why I said the soldiers should not wear or use discretion when wearing these type of shirts.
I think that goes without saying for most of us on this forum.
In my case, I don't agree with depicting any child in this way. I would hope that is what makes me different then the terrorists in Palestine.
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Bullcat,
Exactly my point, I am glad you understand what I was trying to convey.
We are better than Muslims.
And it is important that we do not give them the amunition they want.
For them killing innocent women and children means nothing, no value.
We are far more humane as well as human about the value of life, especially our precious children. Muslims are missing the emmpathy factor for children, that is what sets us apart from these animals.
There is no reason to stoop to their disgusting level.
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A hundred thousand Muslim children, even unborn babies, aren't worth a Jewish (or righteous Gentile) hangnail. I can tell you that what the Tanach, or OT of the Bible, commands the Jews to do with Amalek is a lot more medieval than what is on those shirts.
I know what you are saying Bullcat, but the good people have been "better" than the terrorists for 60 years now and it's time to take the gloves off and respond to Amalek in the only language they can understand (and I don't mean Arabic).
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The truth is, in the Gaza war, there were many instances of old fat arab women hiding explosives under their big islamic-duffel-bag clothing and these were realities that soldiers had to face of women and children being used as traps to lure in the soldiers to dangerous situations and become sabotaged if they had any compassion on what seemed to be not dangerous terrorists, but what really were part of the enemy forces. I know from first-hand accounts that this happened. This is a hamas/fatah Islamic terrorist tactic.
And thus while the humor of the shirts may be tasteless and may make light of a very serious problem (ie, islamic civilians being used as booby traps in terrorist armed warfare against Jewish soldiers), nonetheless the messages are indeed true, it is harder to do, yet real soldiers were willing to follow their orders to do it in order to protect themselves and their fellow soldiers.
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The reason Israel's existence is threatened is because more Israeli soldiers are willing to ethnically cleanse Jews than treat Amalek like the Bible commands them to.
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I don't think people on this board should judge these courageous men for having tshirts against our enemy, and furthermore, I don't think there should EVER be any sort of legitimization or humanization of an enemy that wants to destroy the Jewish people.
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BEAUTIFUL SLOGANS!! MY FAVORITE IS THE PREGNANT WOMEN "1 Shot two kills"
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I WANT ONE! Where can they be bought?!
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A hundred thousand Muslim children, even unborn babies, aren't worth a Jewish (or righteous Gentile) hangnail. I can tell you that what the Tanach, or OT of the Bible, commands the Jews to do with Amalek is a lot more medieval than what is on those shirts.
I know what you are saying Bullcat, but the good people have been "better" than the terrorists for 60 years now and it's time to take the gloves off and respond to Amalek in the only language they can understand (and I don't mean Arabic).
I can't argue with anything in your post, C.F..
My heart still feels for the children though.
I bet they could have T-Shirts with the same impact, without going there.
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Bullcat,
Exactly my point, I am glad you understand what I was trying to convey.
We are better than Muslims.
And it is important that we do not give them the amunition they want.
For them killing innocent women and children means nothing, no value.
We are far more humane as well as human about the value of life, especially our precious children. Muslims are missing the emmpathy factor for children, that is what sets us apart from these animals.
There is no reason to stoop to their disgusting level.
I do understand what you were trying to say.
It is beyond my comprehension, how these terrorist can hate so much, that they destroy even their own children in the process.
I pray that I am never reduced to that level.
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My heart still feels for the children though.
These "children" would slit your throat and keep walking if they could. They are demons, not human beings.
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If a couple hundred Arab devilcubs were treated as the Bible commands, their parents would dreck their drawers.
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My heart still feels for the children though.
These "children" would slit your throat and keep walking if they could. They are demons, not human beings.
They would. It doesn't change how I feel. Target the adults. Get to the real root of the problem. If they are caught in the 'crosshairs', oh well. I still couldn't set out to kill them or joke about it.
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In my case, I don't agree with depicting any child in this way. I would hope that is what makes me different then the terrorists in Palestine.
Where ??
When you refer to occupied Jewish land as 'Palestine' the terrorists have already won an important battle.
I understand you want to differentiate yourself from the Arabs occupying Jewish land that gleefully murder children, but it's self-defeating to adopt their lexicon.
Using the term 'Palestine' only encourages the Arab mass murderers to kill more Jewish children in order to establish their mythical homeland.
Please refrain from doing so in the future.
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In my case, I don't agree with depicting any child in this way. I would hope that is what makes me different then the terrorists in Palestine.
Where ??
When you refer to occupied Jewish land as 'Palestine' the terrorists have already won an important battle.
I understand you want to differentiate yourself from the Arabs occupying Jewish land that gleefully murder children, but it's self-defeating to adopt their lexicon.
Using the term 'Palestine' only encourages the Arab mass murderers to kill more Jewish children in order to establish their mythical homeland.
Please refrain from doing so in the future.
You can pick apart what I wrote MuckDeFuslims. I may have misspoken...but I'm too old to have you tell me to refrain from anything. Maybe my Mother could have done that once upon a time.
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I don't think people on this board should judge these courageous men for having tshirts against our enemy, and furthermore, I don't think there should EVER be any sort of legitimization or humanization of an enemy that wants to destroy the Jewish people.
This is my last post in this thread. I, speaking only for myself, would never sit in judgement of those courageous men and women for having a t-shirt against OUR enemy. I was only commenting on the T-Shirt itself. I would defend THEIR right to wear it, even if I disagreed with the sentiment. So please don't make it sound like I was attacking the Israeli military men and women.
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In my case, I don't agree with depicting any child in this way. I would hope that is what makes me different then the terrorists in Palestine.
Where ??
When you refer to occupied Jewish land as 'Palestine' the terrorists have already won an important battle.
I understand you want to differentiate yourself from the Arabs occupying Jewish land that gleefully murder children, but it's self-defeating to adopt their lexicon.
Using the term 'Palestine' only encourages the Arab mass murderers to kill more Jewish children in order to establish their mythical homeland.
Please refrain from doing so in the future.
You can pick apart what I wrote MuckDeFuslims. I may have misspoken...but I'm too old to have you tell me to refrain from anything. Maybe my Mother could have done that once upon a time.
I'm not trying to be your mother.
I didn't tell you to do anything. I asked you to please refrain from using the term 'Palestine'.
Nor did I 'pick apart' what you wrote. I simply quoted you and explained why we shouldn't adopt the language of our enemies.
We're never too old to make mistakes or take good advice.
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A hundred thousand Muslim children, even unborn babies, aren't worth a Jewish (or righteous Gentile) hangnail. I can tell you that what the Tanach, or OT of the Bible, commands the Jews to do with Amalek is a lot more medieval than what is on those shirts.
There is no such nation as Amalek today. The descendants of Amalek are dispersed among all nations, including the Jews themselves.
That is why deliberate killing of so-called "Palestinians" or Germans of Nazi era JUST BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO THAT NATIONS is absolutely forbidden by Torah Law. Because there is a chance that same person is not Amaleki.
If an unarmed enemy is ACCIDENTALLY killed, it is not a murder. War is war, and no army in the world can perform without any accidental civilian loss. Any other army would kill much more civilians than IDF, just compare the civilian loss to that inflicted by American, Russian, etc. armies and you'll see the difference.
The same is true when armed enemy teenagers are killed by our soldiers. Soldier has a right and obligation to kill the enemy no matter how old he/she is. His/her life is not any more precious than that of the soldier. The responsibility for teenagers deaths is solely on those who use the - Hamas, Hizbullah, etc. Israel should start a campaign to charge these organizations in crimes against humanity for the use of teenagers and children in their military operations and as human shield.
But deliberate killing of so-called "Palestinians", no matter what age, JUST BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO THAT NATION is absolutely forbidden by Torah Law.
On the other hand, I do not think the soldiers should be punished for wearing such T-shirts. It is very easy to sit in New York or Los Angeles and to speculate about morality and good taste. When you are fighting in the enemy midst and see their ugly nature, when they kill your friends, it is very hard to control emotions. The soldiers are human beings, not angels, and evrey human being has evil inclination (yetzer hara in Hebrew). If you look at this case different, you'll understand that it is very good that the soldiers just wore stupid T-shirts and haven't actually done what is depicted on them.
But Haaretz newspaper is cynically using the soldiers' hard situation and acts in order to undermine the legitimacy of the Israeli Defence Forces. This newspaper is really evil and should be closed immediately, those who write such articles should be charged in treason.
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In my case, I don't agree with depicting any child in this way. I would hope that is what makes me different then the terrorists in Palestine.
Where ??
When you refer to occupied Jewish land as 'Palestine' the terrorists have already won an important battle.
I understand you want to differentiate yourself from the Arabs occupying Jewish land that gleefully murder children, but it's self-defeating to adopt their lexicon.
Using the term 'Palestine' only encourages the Arab mass murderers to kill more Jewish children in order to establish their mythical homeland.
Please refrain from doing so in the future.
You can pick apart what I wrote MuckDeFuslims. I may have misspoken...but I'm too old to have you tell me to refrain from anything. Maybe my Mother could have done that once upon a time.
I'm not trying to be your mother.
I didn't tell you to do anything. I asked you to please refrain from using the term 'Palestine'.
Nor did I 'pick apart' what you wrote. I simply quoted you and explained why we shouldn't adopt the language of our enemies.
We're never too old to make mistakes or take good advice.
:-X
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There is no such nation as Amalek today. The descendants of Amalek are dispersed among all nations, including the Jews themselves.
According to one halachic opinion. The Religious Nationalist camp of rebbes would disagree.
But deliberate killing of so-called "Palestinians", no matter what age, JUST BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO THAT NATION is absolutely forbidden by Torah Law.
First of all there is no Palestinian "nation", but even if there was you would be wrong. This statement almost opposes Zionism himself. What did G-d command the Israelites to do to the Muslim Nazis of ancient times (Canaanites, Amalekites, Midianites, etc.), the Nazi beasts whose satanic moon-worship religion directly spawned Islam?
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These T-shirts should be banned. We must not let our fight against the muslim beasts turn us into insensitive brutes.
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So where can I order one of these T-shirts?
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There is no such nation as Amalek today. The descendants of Amalek are dispersed among all nations, including the Jews themselves.
According to one halachic opinion. The Religious Nationalist camp of rebbes would disagree.
So you want to state that according to other halachic opinions "Palestinians" considered to be Amalek? Please quote them. I think you'll find it hard because such halachic decrees do not exist.
But deliberate killing of so-called "Palestinians", no matter what age, JUST BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO THAT NATION is absolutely forbidden by Torah Law.
First of all there is no Palestinian "nation", but even if there was you would be wrong. This statement almost opposes Zionism himself. What did G-d command the Israelites to do to the Muslim Nazis of ancient times (Canaanites, Amalekites, Midianites, etc.), the Nazi beasts whose satanic moon-worship religion directly spawned Islam?
1. I know there is no Palestinian nation. This term is forged by Arab propaganda to oppose Zionism and the right of the Jews to the Land of Israel. That is why I write it using "" just to avoid long description like "Arabs currently living in the Land of Israel".
(I have to admit it is a very powerful term to appeal to the Christians because for many Christians it is a synonim for "Holy Land", "the land where Jesus was born", etc. so when Arabs are fighting for "Palestine" against the Jews they imply that it is in Christians' interests too).
2. G-d indeed commanded to exterminate (or let peacefully go if they choose to) ancient Cannanites and other sinners but it has nothing to do with our times and with Islam. You do not have any halachic basis to link between two these things. Judaism is law, not poetry and parables.
The fact that G-d commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac does not mean that every Jew or righteous gentile should do that. It was one-time commandment to the specific man. The fact that Pinchas killed Zimri and his Moavite girlfriend while they were committing adultery does not mean that every Jew or righteous gentile should do that.
Each person and generation have their own challenges.
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These T-shirts should be banned. We must not let our fight against the muslim beasts turn us into insensitive brutes.
Very true.
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Any nation that makes war against the Jewish people is Amalek.
No. In times of Moshe and the exodus from Egypt, there were many other nations than Amalek who made wars against the Jews.
And today, while leaders and masterminds of enemy nations may indeed (not necessarily) descend from Amalek, it does not mean that ALL individuals from that nations are Amalekites. That is why we are not allowed to exterminate them. To kill a civilian that does not have a means and intention to kill you is a murder.
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I'll have to post an audio where Chaim talks about the Vilna Gaon, Rabbi Kook, and Rabbi Kahane all saying that all nations that make war against the Jewish people count as Amalek nowadays. With regard to the civilians, Joshua killed civilians during the conquest of Canaan. It is the only way to wipe out evil people to keep your own people safe. Being kind to the cruel is being cruel to the kind. As you know, this is a love site. But we're supposed to be loving Jews, not their enemies who want Jews destroyed.
As I have already said what Joshua has done during the conquest of Canaan was the specific commandent for the certain time against the certain peoples. It has nothing to do with the situation today.
Do not misunderstand me. I am not kind to our cruel enemies. We should destroy terrorist organizations, infrastructure and hateful propaganda. But to achieve this goal, it is absolutely unnecessary [and criminal] to kill ALL Arabs in the Land of Israel.
But yes, post the audio. I want to listen what exactly it says.
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The Jew haters and muslims across the globe are determined to wipe Israel out. Now about the t shirts...you see when it comes to dirty evil propanganda, the muslims excell at that and those t shirts are nothing in comparison to the hate propanganda against the Jews.
Muslims wear all kinds of nazi clothing, hold nazi posters, they have posters and t shirts calling Jews nazis and they turn the truth around completely.
If I were in charge of the Israeli soldiers, I would order them to execute every palestinian. Palestinians were born to MURDER!!! If the Palestinians love death, DAMMIT.........GIVE IT TO THEM! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
I have no compassion for our enemy, our enemy is supposed to be killed and killed soon.
Israel has 2 choices....give up or kill her enemy. There is nothing inbetween.
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The Jew haters and muslims across the globe are determined to wipe Israel out. Now about the t shirts...you see when it comes to dirty evil propanganda, the muslims excell at that and those t shirts are nothing in comparison to the hate propanganda against the Jews.
Muslims wear all kinds of nazi clothing, hold nazi posters, they have posters and t shirts calling Jews nazis and they turn the truth around completely.
If I were in charge of the Israeli soldiers, I would order them to execute every palestinian. Palestinians were born to MURDER!!! If the Palestinians love death, DAMMIT.........GIVE IT TO THEM! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
I have no compassion for our enemy, our enemy is supposed to be killed and killed soon.
Israel has 2 choices....give up or kill her enemy. There is nothing inbetween.
Even if your opinion is that certain groups of people are so evil and so dabgerous that they should be destroyed, you shouldn't take this decision lightly. Actually and Especially because that is your opinion you should not make it into a joke.
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The Jew haters and muslims across the globe are determined to wipe Israel out. Now about the t shirts...you see when it comes to dirty evil propanganda, the muslims excell at that and those t shirts are nothing in comparison to the hate propanganda against the Jews.
Muslims wear all kinds of nazi clothing, hold nazi posters, they have posters and t shirts calling Jews nazis and they turn the truth around completely.
If I were in charge of the Israeli soldiers, I would order them to execute every palestinian. Palestinians were born to MURDER!!! If the Palestinians love death, DAMMIT.........GIVE IT TO THEM! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
I have no compassion for our enemy, our enemy is supposed to be killed and killed soon.
Israel has 2 choices....give up or kill her enemy. There is nothing inbetween.
Even if your opinion is that certain groups of people are so evil and so dabgerous that they should be destroyed, you shouldn't take this decision lightly. Actually and Especially because that is your opinion you should not make it into a joke.
Zelhar, I am not joking. My opinion about how to deal with them is based purely on common sense ( that part of our brain that helps us survive. )
If the Israelis do not remove the palestinians, Israel will cease to exist in 30 or 40 years from now. So what is left?
You obviously cannot negoiate with terrorists, you have to kill terrorists...which is what the palestinians are.
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I have to come down on the side of the shirts being tasteless. While defeating ones enemies and protecting your Loved ones property etc should be a cause for rejoicing, the death of children and other innocents is never a good thing.
I am not saying that the Arab population in Gaza is Innocent. In Fact, they should be condeemed and removed from Israel for their actions. But to promote the killing of a child crosses a line.
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the death of children and other innocents
Are you freakin' kidding me? "Innocents"? The only Arabs that are "innocent" are just-fertilized Arab zygotes. Please. These are the ghouls that dance in the streets and pass out candy when a Jew is blown to bits, and have parties in the town squares of Iraq when dying U.S./British soldiers are dragged through the streets, tied to poles, and burned alive.
I am being a moderate when I say these devil-spawn should be shot. If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
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Hasn't anyone heard the phrase "kill your enemy before they kill you" ?
The original Jewish phrase is "The one who rose up to kill you, kill him first". ("Ha-kam lehargecha, hashkem lehargo" in Hebrew).
It means that if there you see someone who wants to kill you now and has a means to do it (weapon, for example), you are allowed and obliged to kill him in order to save your life. It implies direct and immediate danger to your life.
Therefore, an Arab who lives quietly in his village and breeds his donkeys does not fall into this category. Yes, he may be used by Hamas and he does not like Jews at all, but it is insufficient to kill him. To kill him is to commit murder.
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I'll have to post an audio where Chaim talks about the Vilna Gaon, Rabbi Kook, and Rabbi Kahane all saying that all nations that make war against the Jewish people count as Amalek nowadays. With regard to the civilians, Joshua killed civilians during the conquest of Canaan. It is the only way to wipe out evil people to keep your own people safe. Being kind to the cruel is being cruel to the kind. As you know, this is a love site. But we're supposed to be loving Jews, not their enemies who want Jews destroyed.
I do not believe that they said this. Every nation which rises against the Jews is not Amalek. I have heard several Rabbis explicitly say that today we don't know who Amalek is. Although it certainly seems like the arabs are the inheritors of the role of Amalek it is difficult to prove this to be so. The last known Amalekite was Haman who was of Persian descent.
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/184/Q3/
Fabian wrote:
Dear Rabbi,
Who is Amalek?
Dear Fabian,
Amalek was the illegitimate son of Elifaz, and the grandson of Esav. (Amalek’s mother was the illegitimate daughter of Amalek’s father).
The progeny of Amalek are the archetypal enemy of the Jewish People. Their very existence is diametrically opposed to the Torah. The Sages describe the people of Amalek as being the essence of all the evil in the world.
Today, we don’t know who is descended from Amalek. Around the year 600 B.C.E., the Assyrian conqueror Sancheriv exiled most of the world’s inhabitants from their homelands and scattered them around the world. Since then, the true national identity of any people (except for the Jews) has become obscure.
The concept of "Amalek" goes a long way in helping us understand the baffling phenomenon of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism has no sociological parallel. Even the word is unique: "Anti-Semitism" is the only English word describing hate towards a distinct group of people. There’s no English word for French-hatred, Irish-hatred, or German hatred, even though England fought bitter wars against all these nations.
We are the only people in the world towards whom there exists a unique, distinct hatred. This bears out the Torah’s prediction that until the Mashiach’s days, there will exist a nation, Amalek, with an unexplainable, inborn hatred towards us.
On the issue of the T-Shirts I think those who wore them should be reprimanded. In a war like this where public opinion will obviously be against Israel and the Jews it is best to do the job without saying anything inciteful. Publicly wearing a shirt which has a picture of a baby or child in the cross-hairs is obviously not very smart. Jews are required to be thoughtful of these kinds of issues.
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Sounds like we have some holocaust mentality liberals amongst us on the forums. Wake up people, Palestine and PALESTINIANS are the enemy!
Hasn't anyone heard the phrase "kill your enemy before they kill you" ?
Anyways, which one do you guys like better?
(http://i42.tinypic.com/126b6ns.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/sgnzoy.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/28ldesy.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2isv8yt.jpg)
Are we into making fashion statements or protecting the state of Israel. Israel should do exactly whats needed to eliminate the muslim threat it faces even if it indirectly kills the children of terrorist if need be. What they should never do is advertise the fact that children are put in the cross hairs as a primary target something I am very sure Israel tries greatly to prevent. The shirts are counter productive to the well being of Israel. The levels of stupidity in some of the threads like this sometimes becomes a bit much. Grow up and stop to think what Israels detractors think when they see a shirt like that. No moral society targets children more so starting with Israel as the title of the posts clearly states. The world will not put up with the direct targeting of children even if they are the spawn of the devil and that shirt puts the child murder idea in peoples head.
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If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
We are not German or Muslim Nazis, Ustashe or some other beasts. We are the Jews, the People of G-d. Therefore we will not do so.
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Are we into making fashion statements or protecting the state of Israel. Israel should do exactly whats needed to eliminate the muslim threat it faces even if it indirectly kills the children of terrorist if need be. What they should never do is advertise the fact that children are put in the cross hairs as a primary target something I am very sure Israel tries greatly to prevent. The shirts are counter productive to the well being of Israel. The levels of stupidity in some of the threads like this sometimes becomes a bit much. Grow up and stop to think what Israels detractors think when they see a shirt like that. No moral society targets children more so starting with Israel as the title of the posts clearly states. The world will not put up with the direct targeting of children even if they are the spawn of the devil and that shirt puts the child murder idea in peoples head.
Exactly right, cjd! The enemies of Israel who see such threads are just rejoicing. "Now", they say, "we have the proof that the right-wing Jews plan the genocide of innoncent children!" Maybe Haaretz waited namely for such threads for their new article about Kahane movement.
But after all, this is not the main reason why we should not think so. The main reason is that this is against G-d's will and severe desecration of His Holy Name.
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If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
We are not German or Muslim Nazis, Ustashe or some other beasts. We are the Jews, the People of G-d. Therefore we will not do so.
And God commanded the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites, look at what happens when survivors are left. Palestine must be eliminated.
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If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
We are not German or Muslim Nazis, Ustashe or some other beasts. We are the Jews, the People of G-d. Therefore we will not do so.
And G-d commanded the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites, look at what happens when survivors are left. Palestine must be eliminated.
As I have already said what Joshua has done during the conquest of Canaan was the specific commandent for the certain time against the certain peoples. It has nothing to do with the situation today.
We do not learn Halacha (practical law) directly from Tanach. We learn it from Shulhan Aruch and, more specifically, from the halachic decrees of the present-day rabbis. This is real Judaism.
There is no halachic decree that orders to kill all the Arabs of the Land of Israel.
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I'm pretty sure that it would apply to today the same way as it did back then, because the Jews are currently in possession of the Land of Israel. If it did not apply to today, then the halacha that Jews shouldn't give up Jewish land would also not apply to today.
It was applicable only to those 7 Canaanite peoples.
Not to give up Jewish land does not mean to KILL ALL Arabs.
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If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
We are not German or Muslim Nazis, Ustashe or some other beasts. We are the Jews, the People of G-d. Therefore we will not do so.
And G-d commanded the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites, look at what happens when survivors are left. Palestine must be eliminated.
As I have already said what Joshua has done during the conquest of Canaan was the specific commandent for the certain time against the certain peoples. It has nothing to do with the situation today.
We do not learn Halacha (practical law) directly from Tanach. We learn it from Shulhan Aruch and, more specifically, from the halachic decrees of the present-day rabbis. This is real Judaism.
There is no halachic decree that orders to kill all the Arabs of the Land of Israel.
Are you an Arab?
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Are you an Arab?
No, I am a Jew :)
BTW Jew=Israelite. There is nothing derogatory in this word (I have an impression you avoid using the word "Jew").
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If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
We are not German or Muslim Nazis, Ustashe or some other beasts. We are the Jews, the People of G-d. Therefore we will not do so.
And G-d commanded the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites, look at what happens when survivors are left. Palestine must be eliminated.
Arabs must be removed from the State of Israel however you are not going to do it with a tee shirt. Moreover their is no such thing as a Palestinian or modern day Palestine.
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Are you an Arab?
No, I am a Jew :)
BTW Jew=Israelite. There is nothing derogatory in this word (I have an impression you avoid using the word "Jew").
No I do not, just that a good chunk of Jews forget that they are Israelites after they assimilate into other "cultures".
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Well guys, it's a bit late in Jerusalem.
To those who still doubt that it is forbidden to kill Arabs JUST BECAUSE they are Arabs, I recommend to read my posts again.
Blind hatred is harmful.
Long live the indivisible Land of Israel and Jerusalem, the eternal indivisible capital of the Jewish people!
Good night.
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Spectator, are you a Kahanist?
It's a yes or no question.
No Kahanist would seriously call any Islamonazis "innocent".
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I support the shirts for three reasons:
1--they say exactly what the Biblical answer is to Amalek
2--they really [censored] the Bolsheviks of Israel
3--if they become popular enough, they can influence Israeli culture for the best
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In a war like this where public opinion will obviously be against Israel and the Jews it is best to do the job without saying anything inciteful.
And why should Jews care what the goyim think, especially Nazi goyim?
The animals who attack Israel verbally should be in the crosshairs too, not placated by the good guys.
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the death of children and other innocents
Are you freakin' kidding me? "Innocents"? The only Arabs that are "innocent" are just-fertilized Arab zygotes. Please. These are the ghouls that dance in the streets and pass out candy when a Jew is blown to bits, and have parties in the town squares of Iraq when dying U.S./British soldiers are dragged through the streets, tied to poles, and burned alive.
I am being a moderate when I say these devil-spawn should be shot. If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
I am in full agreement with you on this matter. Some people seem to forget just exactly what Islam and the muslims are all about. Muslims are programmed killing machines compliments of Islam. If muslims are not eradicated, the rest of the world will be eradicated. Muslims are picking up where Hitler left off, why can't some people see this?
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In a war like this where public opinion will obviously be against Israel and the Jews it is best to do the job without saying anything inciteful.
And why should Jews care what the goyim think, especially Nazi goyim?
The animals who attack Israel verbally should be in the crosshairs too, not placated by the good guys.
I agree muman the less said the better. Sometimes the PR war is more important then the actual thing. Tee shirts what a laugh................
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cjd, the world doesn't respect a PR war, but Jewish force. That's the only thing it will ever respect, just like it's the only thing the Muzzie pigs will ever respect.
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I didn't see all of the shirts, but I don't have any problem with the shirt that shows an Arab child with a gun and says, "יותר קטן, יותר קשה " which means, "the smaller, the harder." One thing that makes Arabs in Israel dangerous is that they are willing to sacrafice their children to kill Jews. They sometimes strap bombs to their children in order to kill Jews.
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If it were up to me they'd die a lot more painfully, while their parents watch.
We are not German or Muslim Nazis, Ustashe or some other beasts. We are the Jews, the People of G-d. Therefore we will not do so.
There is vast difference between the use of deadly force aganst an enemy that is willing to got to any lenght to kill you and your people, and torturing children to death. Nowhere in the Bible is this kind of action premited.
These children are not yet able to understand why things are good or evil and have the right to make an informed chioce. That is what free will is all about.
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That's not true. As soon as anybody decides to do anything, they are exercising free will. We discipline our children for hitting others, throwing tantrums, stealing, not sharing, etc. constantly and these are very young children who technically "don't know better".
There is a whole order of magnitude of difference between a toddler who won't share his toys in the sandbox and one who cheers and celebrates when innocent human beings are tortured and killed. Amalek needs to have happen to it what it wishes on others, regardless of age.
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For those who are saying (cue Chaim Ben Pesach's impression of a liberal Bubbe)
"But what are they going to think?"
and are wringing their hands...
CRY ME A FRICKIN RIVER.
:'( Boo hoo.
And CF, keep doing what you do best! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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I have already said what I think about the shirts.
It is not the mission of the Jewish people to kill all of our enemies. Our mission from Torah is to be a light to the nations by setting an example. Torah permits us to kill our enemies, no question about that. But if the Torah was written for many of those who recently have been commenting here, I am sure that Torah would sound more like the Koran than our holy Torah.
I fully support the war in Gaza and I had hoped it would have continued till the mission was accomplished. Nowhere in Torah are we commanded to rejoice in the war. Our Torah does not make war a glamorous or a sacred mission. The wars which were fought were won because of Divine providence, not because of a strong army or viscous curses. Our Jewish heritage teaches us that our strength is in unity and our protection is divine name of Hashem.
It is natural to become angry at the enemy and dehumanize him. I am also angry at the arabs in Israel who throw stones at citizens who march through town with Israeli flags. I do support a loyalty oath from arabs who live in Israel. I think that the lefties in Israel should also make an oath of allegiance. But I don't think that going in public wearing a shirt which the world will hold up and say "Look at what the 'chosen' people do to these poor people" and then it becomes a chillul hashem, and our providence is decreased.
Those who say they don't care about what the world thinks have a point. But the point is simply that it ultimately doesn't matter what the world thinks, it matters what Israel does. But the world will one day realize that Hashem rules the world, and his providence is with his children Israel. This is where we must try to show the world that our moral system is superior to their moral system {Or lack thereof}. We must be a nation which sets itself apart from the others and doesn't stoop to the level of demeaning any life. Jews must stand strong against enemies with a view towards peace.
So I will not join in the crowd of people who use their gift of speech to curse and demean. I choose to use my voice to bless and raise up. I have realized that my view towards blessing has benefited me and people around me are affected.
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I wonder if we're being had with these t-shirts? All the Jew haters constantly talk about Israel trying to kill children and they never have any evidence of deliberate targetting of civilians. Israel goes out of its way to avoid killing civilians yet the Jew haters, self haters and Muzzies constantly perpetuate that lie. This t-shirt seems like a stunt meant to either set up or satirize the Israeli military in an evil way. Is this perhaps a Peace Now ploy?
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I wonder if we're being had with these t-shirts? All the Jew haters constantly talk about Israel trying to kill children and they never have any evidence of deliberate targetting of civilians. Israel goes out of its way to avoid killing civilians yet the Jew haters, self haters and Muzzies constantly perpetuate that lie. This t-shirt seems like a stunt meant to either set up or satirize the Israeli military in an evil way. Is this perhaps a Peace Now ploy?
That is a possibility... The leftist media will exaggerate or distort things...
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I wonder if we're being had with these t-shirts? All the Jew haters constantly talk about Israel trying to kill children and they never have any evidence of deliberate targetting of civilians. Israel goes out of its way to avoid killing civilians yet the Jew haters, self haters and Muzzies constantly perpetuate that lie. This t-shirt seems like a stunt meant to either set up or satirize the Israeli military in an evil way. Is this perhaps a Peace Now ploy?
That is a possibility... The leftist media will exaggerate or distort things...
Pretending to be right wing is a ploy of the far left. Look at all those "undercover in the Christian coalition" stunts they pull.... or Michael Moore's stunts. I think Michael Savage is pulling one off on everyone too.
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We an enemy shouldn't be as trivial as squashing a bug. The message of the shirts basically depreciate the value of human life. We are only allowed to kill as a last resort, and in order to save innocent life.