JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gentile on June 07, 2009, 12:08:24 AM
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Probably old news but what the ???
CINCINNATI (AP) — Describing herself as the "new face of Judaism," Alysa Stanton became the first black female rabbi in the country during an ordination in Cincinnati.
Stanton, of Blue Ash, was among 14 rabbis ordained Saturday at the Plum Street Temple. She will serve as rabbi of the predominantly white Congregation Bayt Shalom in Greenville, N.C., beginning this summer.
The Cincinnati Enquirer reported on its Web site that Stanton said her goals are to break down barriers, build bridges and provide hope.
A native of Cleveland, she studied at Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, the oldest institution of higher Jewish education of Reform Judaism in the United States.
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How sad this is the new face of Judaism. She will start an afro-centrist synagogue which tries to prove how blacks are da real Jews.. I didn't think women , especially black women can be rabbis. I like her homo rainbow flag tallis, I guess in order to be ordained to this position she probably had to be a lesbian too.
I gues these were amongst the 70% heretical "fake" Jews who voted for HUssein Obama. Sad that amongst Jewish people there has to be these deviant Self-hating Jews who have done so much to attack their own race.. THere is a new book I want to read by Aaron Kline, called "The Late State of Israel". Its about how Israel is suffering self-destruciton by its own political elite and left-wing radical trouble makers. Iran, Lebanon and Palestians are getting the upper hand only because the left-wing donkeys are ruling the country and under the authority of the anti-semitic USA liberal leadership.
Black lesbian rabbis.. watch out.. One day she may try to run for PM of Israel. She will have Mahmoud Abbas running as President..
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she looks like shes going to perform prayer services at white castle
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A woman can't be a Rabbi therefore she nothing but a blasphemer
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What has religion in this country come to when there are some so-called Jewish worship places with female rabbis and so-called Christian worship places with monsters like Tiller in the leadership? I hope that people know neither of those situations are genuine but are done by very misguided people.
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-06-06-black-woman-rabbi_N.htm?csp=34
(http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2009/06/06/black-rabbix.jpg)
Ohioan becomes 1st black female rabbi in USA
CINCINNATI (AP) — Describing herself as the "new face of Judaism," Alysa Stanton became the first black female rabbi in the United States during an ordination in Cincinnati.
Stanton, of Blue Ash, was among 14 rabbis ordained Saturday at the Plum Street Temple. She will serve as rabbi of the predominantly white Congregation Bayt Shalom in Greenville, North Carolina, beginning this summer.
The Cincinnati Enquirer reported on its website that Stanton said her goals are to break down barriers, build bridges and provide hope.
A native of Cleveland, she studied at Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, the oldest institution of higher Jewish education of Reform Judaism in the United States.
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"her goals are to break down barriers"
What exactly does that mean?
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I am sorry, I did not notice Gentile's post about this black female "Rabbi" :o
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I wonder if she's even Jewish by halacha
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Shalom Y'all! When be services? The only thing I can think of is: OY VEY IZ MEIR! :o
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I wonder if she's even Jewish by halacha
I think probably not. I know some black Jews who have black gentile fathers and white Jewish mothers, but that woman looks fully black. Assuming she's a convert, she probably underwent a reform conversion since she studied at a reform Jewish institute. Reform "conversions" are not valid according to Israeli law or according to traditional Judaism.
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I question her honesty entirely. I think she is just setting up a scam. As the first so called black female rabbi, she is guaranteed to be flushed with funding. She hit the jackpot.
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Not taking a jab at women BTW. Actually I am not opposed to women being ordained as clergy in the Church as long as they have been truly called.
However, in my very limited understanding of Judaism I was thinking that there are Rabbinical restrictions that should not be challenged. Please correct me if I am mistaken as I have the upmost respect for Judaic Law.
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i did not know that there were women rabbis too
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There are no female Rabbis in Orthodox Judaism. This will not change. This is one of the reasons Orthodox Judaism is the only Judaism I consider to be authentic. The others, Reform & Conservative, are Judaism Lite for the idiots. I know many nice Jews who consider themselves Reform or Conservative, but I know what they really are spiritually, they are fooling themselves and trying to fool Hashem {we know he cannot be fooled}.
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Not taking a jab at women BTW. Actually I am not opposed to women being ordained as clergy in the Church as long as they have been truly called.
However, in my very limited understanding of Judaism I was thinking that there are Rabbinical restrictions that should not be challenged. Please correct me if I am mistaken as I have the upmost respect for Judaic Law.
The woman is not allowed to teach according to Paul. (1. Timotheus 2:12)
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"The woman is not allowed to teach according to Paul. (1. Timotheus 2:12)"
Very familiar with this passage, many have built arguments on it. My only thing is this is what Paul said.
As you know, Paul was very opinionated and confrontational and would go head-to-head with another Apostle in an instant.
My heart-held belief is Christ never denied women the opportunity to participate in His ministry.
He knows our heart better than we do.
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;D :dance:
Oy der Schvartza Rebbetzin da-da-da-da-da..................
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"The woman is not allowed to teach according to Paul. (1. Timotheus 2:12)"
Very familiar with this passage, many have built arguments on it. My only thing is this is what Paul said.
As you know, Paul was very opinionated and confrontational and would go head-to-head with another Apostle in an instant.
My heart-held belief is Christ never denied women the opportunity to participate in His ministry.
He knows our heart better than we do.
This is your assumption. Of cause Jesus respected the women, but he never choose one of them for leadership. Paul states himself several times, that he is choosen by Jesus personally for his service to teach. So I listen to his advise.
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What makes her jewish to even make her into rabbi? I'm sorry the reform are not even practicing judaism
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"The woman is not allowed to teach according to Paul. (1. Timotheus 2:12)"
Very familiar with this passage, many have built arguments on it. My only thing is this is what Paul said.
As you know, Paul was very opinionated and confrontational and would go head-to-head with another Apostle in an instant.
My heart-held belief is Christ never denied women the opportunity to participate in His ministry.
He knows our heart better than we do.
Peter also said women cannot teach.. That they have to be submissive and under male authority.. Being women rabbi is big no no in Christian religion too.. And don't try to knock Paul, because like over half the amount of books in the New Testament were written by him, so he must have some knowldge about Christianity that you don't. Watch out for heart held beliefs, King Solomon wrote, what is more deceptive than the heart. Stick to scriptual teachings and don't let your heart guide you away from the Good Book.
Anyhow, I agree with Mumam.. The Orthodox Jews are the ones who really adhere to the teachings of the Torah an Talmud. They live and breathe the religion and deveote themselves entirely to Hashem. They have managed 1000s of years without women or homosexual rabbis. Why do they need this today? If anyone read teh news like few years ago a COnserative SYnagogue in Los Angeles ordained the first lesbian woman rabbi ever. Please nobody hate me when saying this, but I think these reform, neo-conservative Jews are all clowns who are just playing some sick game with Hashem's Torah and that he will punish them like he did when Israelites sacrificed to Molech and to g-ds of the Babylonians. I know the frummish, devoted, Orthodox, Chassidim, Haredi are very blessed in Hashem's eyes and one day they Israel will be ruled under their authority.
As far as the other clowns, like Ms. Afro Mama Lesbo Rabbi.. I just think they are fuel for the fire of hell. Assuming they don't repent for this vulgar and demeaning lifestyle.
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In my opinion Judaism is much less mysogynistic than Christianity. Women are equal to men in many respects but they have different obligations than men. According to Jewish belief women are not obligated in the time-bound mitzvahs such as davening at certain times, wearing tefillin, and such. The only time-bound mitzvah which I can think about is the lighting of Shabbat candles. Women are also able to learn and to teach, as a matter of fact I know of several Rebbetzins who are very knowledgable and I know women who study under them.
I knew a Christian who regulary beat his wife and he showed me NT justification for beating his wife. I don't think Christianity {in its true form} was very friendly to women, and it is why christian clergy aren't allowed to marry while Rabbis should be married. Also the belief in Original Sin which cast Eve in a very disturbing light. I believe that Judaism is much enlightened compared to both Christianity and Islam when it comes to women issues.
PS: I do support seperation of genders during davening and learning not because I think there is anything impure about women, it is a fear of the thoughts which will enter mine and other mens heads when we see beautiful women. See http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,35099.msg354917.html#msg354917
PPS: Judaism also has many Women role models such as Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, Rachel, Miriam, Batyah, Tzipporah, Deborah, Ruth and others.
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I knew a Christian who regulary beat his wife and he showed me NT justification for beating his wife. I don't think Christianity {in its true form} was very friendly to women, and it is why christian clergy aren't allowed to marry while Rabbis should be married. Also the belief in Original Sin which cast Eve in a very disturbing light. I believe that Judaism is much enlightened compared to both Christianity and Islam when it comes to women issues.
What about that rabbi who got busted on nightline for being a pedophile? He was visitng the house of what he thought was a young girl who wanted to have sex. I guess all Jewish people are like this? I suppose all Chrsitains are wife beaters and rape alter boys.
You really shouldn't make such bold accusations without backing it up with scripture. I am sure I can find some Jewish person who did something wrong and say you see how Judaism is much more unfriendly to women. As far as I know one of the Jewish prayers , "Thank you G-d for not making me a gentile, slave or a woman." Christianity and Judaism have many similairties and have many same teachings about women. Husbands are not allowed to beat their wives in Christianity anymore than they are allowed in Judaism. So, I would respect that on behalf of the CHristian members here you don't make blind accusations based on what idiot you met, because some person can do the same thing with Jews and twist and manipulate the scriptures as with the one prayer I showed you. Contrary to what you claim, women were not always treated with great respect in Judaism. I am not saying its wrong, since most societies were male dominated until the last 40 years or so. As far as you saying Christains believe in Adam and Eve, are you telling me Jewish people believe otherwise? Does this not come from Bereshit? Also, does it not say in Torah that a woman who is found not to be a virgin (Blood on sheets) after her marriage night is to be taken out in the streets to be stoned to death? Of course i Know thaat these rules are not in effect anymore, but you shouldn't just rant about how bad Christianity is and cruel to women. Christian women had a very great role in the ministry and as mothers and sisters and were greatly loved. You won't find any verse in New Testament about beating, stoning or killing women. Since you claim to know so much, why not you find me the verse and show me where they allow wife beating in CHristianity?
We need not have a religious battle now do we?
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There are no female Rabbis in Orthodox Judaism. This will not change. This is one of the reasons Orthodox Judaism is the only Judaism I consider to be authentic. The others, Reform & Conservative, are Judaism Lite for the idiots. I know many nice Jews who consider themselves Reform or Conservative, but I know what they really are spiritually, they are fooling themselves and trying to fool Hashem {we know he cannot be fooled}.
thanks for clearing it.
I was told by my local Guru...since he has been attending every Hindu-Jewish summits, in Judaism, just like Hinduism... women are not supposed to enter synagouges during their menstrual cycle.. really? or did i hear it wrongly... Other things like removing shoes outside before entering a temple, like Hinduism.. Its very interesting. Sanctity and Purity has to be maintained at the highest level for Spiritual reasons!
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Women have many important roles in Judaism, Rabbi is not one of them.
This is exactly how it looks, a mockery. She is no Rabbi, and the place she conducts her little shows (I won't call them religious services) is no Synagogue.
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I knew a Christian who regulary beat his wife and he showed me NT justification for beating his wife. I don't think Christianity {in its true form} was very friendly to women, and it is why christian clergy aren't allowed to marry while Rabbis should be married. Also the belief in Original Sin which cast Eve in a very disturbing light. I believe that Judaism is much enlightened compared to both Christianity and Islam when it comes to women issues.
What about that rabbi who got busted on nightline for being a pedophile? He was visitng the house of what he thought was a young girl who wanted to have sex. I guess all Jewish people are like this? I suppose all Chrsitains are wife beaters and rape alter boys.
You really shouldn't make such bold accusations without backing it up with scripture. I am sure I can find some Jewish person who did something wrong and say you see how Judaism is much more unfriendly to women. As far as I know one of the Jewish prayers , "Thank you G-d for not making me a gentile, slave or a woman." Christianity and Judaism have many similairties and have many same teachings about women. Husbands are not allowed to beat their wives in Christianity anymore than they are allowed in Judaism. So, I would respect that on behalf of the CHristian members here you don't make blind accusations based on what idiot you met, because some person can do the same thing with Jews and twist and manipulate the scriptures as with the one prayer I showed you. Contrary to what you claim, women were not always treated with great respect in Judaism. I am not saying its wrong, since most societies were male dominated until the last 40 years or so. As far as you saying Christains believe in Adam and Eve, are you telling me Jewish people believe otherwise? Does this not come from Bereshit? Also, does it not say in Torah that a woman who is found not to be a virgin (Blood on sheets) after her marriage night is to be taken out in the streets to be stoned to death? Of course i Know thaat these rules are not in effect anymore, but you shouldn't just rant about how bad Christianity is and cruel to women. Christian women had a very great role in the ministry and as mothers and sisters and were greatly loved. You won't find any verse in New Testament about beating, stoning or killing women. Since you claim to know so much, why not you find me the verse and show me where they allow wife beating in CHristianity?
We need not have a religious battle now do we?
There is no need for a battle as I am just expressing my opinion.
Regarding our differences in understanding of Bereseit I offer the following account from Wiki {and I am aware of Wikis qualities but I believe this describes the Jewish understanding adequately}...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Man
Judaism
Judaism and Islam interpret the account of the fall as being simply historical, Adam and Eve's disobedience would have already been known to G-d even before he created them, thus draw no particular theological implications for human nature.[citation needed] That is, man's setting, condition, and environment have in essence changed - but not man himself. Quite simply, because of Adam's actions, he and his wife were removed from the garden, forced to work, suffer pain in childbirth, and die. However, even after expelling them from the garden, G-d provided that people who honor G-d and follow G-d's laws would be rewarded, while those who acted wrongly would be punished.
Some Muslims believe that Adam and Eve were clothed in the Garden and stripped when they were expelled. However, these stories hold no significant weight in any Judaic-Christian type of doctrine.[3]
Christianity
Christianity interprets the fall in a number of ways. Traditional Christian theology accepts the teaching of St Paul in his letter to the Romans[4] "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of G-d" and of St John's Gospel that "G-d so loved the world that he sent his only son (Jesus Christ) that whoever believes on him should not perish, but have everlasting life".Gospel of John 3:16
The doctrine of original sin, as articulated by Saint Augustine's interpretation of Saint Paul, provides that the fall caused a fundamental change in human nature, so that all descendants of Adam are born in sin, and can only be redeemed by divine grace. Sacrifice was the only means by which humanity could be redeemed after the Fall. Jesus, who was without sin, died on the cross as the ultimate redemption for the sin of humankind.
One tradition within Christianity is that the serpent of Genesis was an incarnation of Satan, while others claim it was an incarnation of Lilith, a consort of Samael.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin
Christianity portal
Original sin[1] is, according to a doctrine proposed in Christian theology, humanity's state of sin resulting from the Fall of Man.[2] This condition has been characterized in many ways, ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature", to something as drastic as total depravity or automatic guilt by all humans through collective guilt.[3]
Those who uphold the doctrine look to the teaching of Paul the Apostle in Romans 5:12-21 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 for its scriptural base,[2] and see it as perhaps implied in Tanach passages such as Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3.
Some Christians do not accept the doctrine indicated by the terms "original sin" or "ancestral sin", which are not found in the Bible.[4] The doctrine is not found in other religions, such as Judaism,[5] Hinduism[6] and Islam.
Roman Catholic teaching regards original sin as the general condition of sinfulness (lack of holiness) into which human beings are born, distinct from the actual sins that a person commits. It explicitly states that original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants.[7]
The prevailing view also in Eastern Orthodoxy is that man bears no guilt for the sin of Adam. Orthodoxy prefers the term "ancestral sin",[8] which indicates that "original sin is hereditary. It did not remain only Adam and Eve's. As life passes from them to all of their descendants, so does original sin. We all of us participate in original sin because we are all descended from the same forefather, Adam."[9] An important exposition of the belief of Eastern Christians identifies original sin as physical and spiritual death, the spiritual death being the loss of "the grace of G-d, which quickened (the soul) with the higher and spiritual life".[10] Others see original sin also as the cause of actual sins: "a bad tree bears bad fruit" (Matthew 7:17, NIV), although, in this view, original and actual sin may be difficult to distinguish.[11]
Also from Chabads site: http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/90765/jewish/The-Curse-of-Eve.htm
Interestingly, this portrayal of Eve as an icon of feminine deceit is featured more in Christian liturgy than in Jewish works, which may be linked to Judaism's divergent interpretation of the Original Sin. According to the Torah, the story of Adam and Eve is far more complex than a simple "she led him to sin" tale. Our sages explain that G-d commanded Adam not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, and to relay the message to his wife. However, rather than entrusting Eve with G-d's exact commandment, Adam informed her that they were forbidden to touch the tree. He intended the addition as a safeguard, but the misinformation made Eve vulnerable to the trickery of the snake, who enticed her into sin by first proving that nothing bad will happen if she merely touches the tree. Thus, the birth of sin was not just the story of a seductive woman luring man into evil; it's also the world's first male-female miscommunication, laying the ground work for many, many more to come. (This mistake was later rectified when, prior to the giving of the Torah, G-d commanded Moses to teach the laws to the women first.)
PS: I did not mean to imply that all Christians beat their wifes. As you point out there are good and bad in every religion. But I believe that overall the outlook on women in Christianity is tainted by the belief in Original Sin and blame Eve for it.
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"her goals are to break down barriers"
What exactly does that mean?
That sounds familiar. Kind of like what obama has been saying all along!
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IF JEws don't blame Eve for being the first to sin, then how come its women who are afflicted with the pains of child birth and it is says taht the woman's yearning will be for her husband and he will be the master/lord what ever term the Hebrew Torah uses over her. I have heard many Chrsitians who have used your interpretation and many Jews who believe that it was Eve who was deceived and then misled the husband. As far as I can see it, our views are the same, depending on whether you come from the pro-woman or pro- man way of thought. All the beliefs are interpreted by JEwish or Christians scholars in simliar ways. Some lean towards the man being at fault, some say woman, some say both. I don't think you have any means to go around saying Christians blame Eve for sin and therefore treat women bad. Women were treated very bad in their societies around the world and were treated less than human and JEsus gave them a position of honor and respect and allowed them to be apart of his ministry and enter their synagogues (or what is now called churches), where they preached and congregated. He forced peopel to wake up and look at women as mothers, sisters and daughters. He help gave an active role in the church and got them involved in spreading the Word and helping others. As far as I know at this time, women in most of the world, except in Persia and few other places, where not allowed to have any interaction with men or be active members of the ministry or society. Paul wrote there is now no Jew nor Gentile, nor slave or free , nor man or woman to counter, meaning everyone was welcomed to be apart of the religion and treated with respect.
Islam is taken from arabic paganism where mutilating your wives and collecting groups of women to be your so-called wives/prostitute store was the norm. Arabs have always been treacherous to their women. Islam did liberate women , as they do claim, in the context of arab pagan society. Since they learned some Judaic-Christian values they now realized that they must now have a reason for cutting off their wives haed. IN olden times, Arabs would just behead their wives and leave the min desert; they were not even a human or any life form worth more than a donkey.
Every religion has woman beaters. Don't use the example of the one wife beater as reflecting Christianity and I won't use any example of black lesbian rabbi as representing Judaism.
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At least she is not a Muslim convert fomenting terrorism.
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I question whether she even was smart enough to pass to Rabbi exam and accumulate all the requisite learning. To be a Rabbi, you need to have a very smart and analytical mind and good memory. She doesn't look smart on her photograph.
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Muman, please pardon the expression here but a Christian man is supposed to love his wife as Christ loved the church. There should also be respect for each other, for the role each plays in a marriage situation. That stupid man you ran into probably didn't read the whole verses of what he was quoting. He only read the parts he wanted to.
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Wow, didn't mean for things to get off track.
What I said about women in the ministry relates more to the Protestant church rather than the Catholic church or the Eastern Orthodox church; and certainly not to Rabbinical Judaism.
I am not knocking Paul or any apostle, let's make that clear. Paul was a champion for Christ and gave his very life for Him. He worked unceasingly til his dying day to keep the fledgling church on course which was a monumental task to say the least. I cannot even begin to fathom that level of responsibility. Paul also knew that women had a new found freedom but--as yet--they must keep silent in the church and not teach doctrine. In time, women such as Phoebe and Lydia would become "leading women".
Paul was also human and admited this repeatedly, "Oh Wretched man that I am", he knew firsthand the power of the Almighty. Christianity has much to be thankful for in the epistles of Paul.
Furthermore, the Apostles were chosen for Christ by the Father. As we know, one didn't work out; that old serpent tried, but to no avail.
The history of the canonized Christian Bible is long and complex and arguments as to its true form and language go on, but the message remains the same. The Lord knows our thoughts before we do and He knows what's in our hearts, there is nothing we can hide from Him. This again is fact, it's in the "Good Book". "...for He is greater than our hearts..."
"He who has ears, let him hear"