JTF.ORG Forum
The Worldwide Crisis of Islam => The Truth About Islam => Topic started by: MrPatriot1776 on August 16, 2009, 12:53:20 AM
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I just have some food for thought.
On my Facebook page, I did an update about a Pakistani Taliban Chief being killed in an American missile strike.
The comment I saw, moreover who it was coming from, greatly surprised me. Muhammad Umair Jafri said,
"I feel happy about he Being Killed.
Regards,
A Pakistani"
Can you belive it? There is actually a Muslim against extremism.
And this is not an isolated incident. We see Turkey, the Iraqi Secutirty Forces, and and the Northern Alliance (in Afghanistan) allying with America. On top of that, we see Iranians - Iranians - protesting Ahmadinejad.
I will admit that we will rarely see Muslims supporting Israel, but at least some don't want Israel "wiped off the map."
In light of all of this, I think it's ignorant at best to think all Muslims are hateful, violent extremists. They may have an inherently hateful book, though. I will admit that.
What do you guys think?
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I don't know any Muslims. The only ones I knew were a few janitors in my old yeshivah. The regular was a good guy but the fill ins stole 400 shekel from me and I hope they die of leukemia for that.
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I don't know any Muslims. The only ones I knew were a few janitors in my old yeshivah. The regular was a good guy but the fill ins stole 400 shekel from me and I hope they die of leukemia for that.
I know lots of Muslims. Mansour, Kia, Siavash, etc. They would never hurt a fly.
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true not all Muslims are like that.
However, Muslims are not our primarily target, its Islam. The religion, or ideology of Islam. Just because they don't have the heart to follow it, or they don't even know whats in there, doesn't mean Islam is fine.
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true not all Muslims are like that.
However, Muslims are not our primarily target, its Islam. The religion, or ideology of Islam. Just because they don't have the heart to follow it, or they don't even know whats in there, doesn't mean Islam is fine.
I'll agree with you on that. But, what do you think about forming alliances with freedom-loving Muslims?
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true not all Muslims are like that.
However, Muslims are not our primarily target, its Islam. The religion, or ideology of Islam. Just because they don't have the heart to follow it, or they don't even know whats in there, doesn't mean Islam is fine.
I'll agree with you on that. But, what do you think about forming alliances with freedom-loving Muslims?
Sure why not. I'm not against people, I'm against the ideology. And if someone follow that ideology, I'm against him. Freedom-loving muslims don't follow this ideology. Maybe they think they do, but in reality they overlook a lot of aspects about muhammad and the koran, because following muhammad completely means being a terrorist.
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בס"ד
Every Al Taqqiya swine can use that kinda lie. A Muslim by definition is EVIL.
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true not all Muslims are like that.
However, Muslims are not our primarily target, its Islam. The religion, or ideology of Islam. Just because they don't have the heart to follow it, or they don't even know whats in there, doesn't mean Islam is fine.
I'll agree with you on that. But, what do you think about forming alliances with freedom-loving Muslims?
Sure why not. I'm not against people, I'm against the ideology. And if someone follow that ideology, I'm against him. Freedom-loving muslims don't follow this ideology. Maybe they think they do, but in reality they overlook a lot of aspects about muhammad and the koran, because following muhammad completely means being a terrorist.
Yes, makes sense.
This is why those obsessed with Islam hate them.
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I have Pakistani admirers of my anti-sharia artworks. That's jsut strange in Pakistan. They are either pro-Western and fear Taliban and fanatism to ruin their lives and there is the other extreme of those who are extremely Muslamic and anti-everything-outside-Pakistan!
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There are. But they are the minority.
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Well-said, by both.
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I don't know any Muslims. The only ones I knew were a few janitors in my old yeshivah. The regular was a good guy but the fill ins stole 400 shekel from me and I hope they die of leukemia for that.
Whoa! Calm down. It's just money.
And I know a few Muslims who describe themselves as "moderate" and some don't even care about their religion.
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I don't know any Muslims. The only ones I knew were a few janitors in my old yeshivah. The regular was a good guy but the fill ins stole 400 shekel from me and I hope they die of leukemia for that.
Whoa! Calm down. It's just money.
And I know a few Muslims who describe themselves as "moderate" and some don't even care about their religion.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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There are not good Muslims. Those who are "good" aren't Muslims and not religious. So they aren't Muslims.
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There are not good Muslims. Those who are "good" aren't Muslims and not religious. So they aren't Muslims.
exactly.
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There are not good Muslims. Those who are "good" aren't Muslims and not religious. So they aren't Muslims.
True. If one's a "good" Muslim, he isn't a Muslim.
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Keep in mind that a Muslim Nazi hating another Muslim Nazi does not make him good. They all hate each other and that is why they are willing to send there own children to die as marters.
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Mr Patriot, here is the problem....while some muslims are not violent and do not openly advocate jihad, you have to bear in mind they still worship mohamed who is the founder of the evil koran.
islam is a sick evil twisted ideaology and anyone who goes along with it should never be trusted.
The only muslims I would trust, would be muslims who have left islam and verbally expose the evils of their former religion.
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The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. :dance:
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What about Muslims that become Christians? I know of some somewhere. They get along well with Jews. Please, noone throw rocks at me, but they are not terrorists, they believe in following the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob now. (I might delete this if it starts a war, lol)
I know this goes against the norm, but....
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What about Muslims that become Christians? I know of some somewhere. They get along well with Jews. Please, noone throw rocks at me, but they are not terrorists, they believe in following the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob now. (I might delete this if it starts a war, lol)
I know this goes against the norm, but....
Hanna, as you may recall, I have some reason to agree with you. However, what I really think is that it all depends on the context. In western Turkey there are huge numbers of thinking young people who at the most pay only lip service to Islam, and to them personally I have no problem. However, I do have a problem with anyone whatsoever who takes Islam seriously.
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yes....
What about Muslims that become Christians? I know of some somewhere. They get along well with Jews. Please, noone throw rocks at me, but they are not terrorists, they believe in following the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob now. (I might delete this if it starts a war, lol)
I know this goes against the norm, but....
Hanna, as you may recall, I have some reason to agree with you. However, what I really think is that it all depends on the context. In western Turkey there are huge numbers of thinking young people who at the most pay only lip service to Islam, and to them personally I have no problem. However, I do have a problem with anyone whatsoever who takes Islam seriously.
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There are not good Muslims. Those who are "good" aren't Muslims and not religious. So they aren't Muslims.
They may be Muslims statistically but in the eyes of religious Muslims, they are as kuffar and even worse than a Jew or a Christian! Muslims hate non-religious Muslims more than they hate Jews and Christians!
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Yes, I agree.....
Mr Patriot, here is the problem....while some muslims are not violent and do not openly advocate jihad, you have to bear in mind they still worship mohamed who is the founder of the evil koran.
islam is a sick evil twisted ideaology and anyone who goes along with it should never be trusted.
The only muslims I would trust, would be muslims who have left islam and verbally expose the evils of their former religion.
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There are 3 types of muslims
1-Secular muslims (with that those that interested in politics usually will be against the wests foriegn policy, and there are secular muslims that are support it for their own gain) Mahmud Abbas.
2-Regular normal muslims following Islam: average, god fearing, follows Islam as it was followed by the prophets.(oppose Israel and see it as unjust)
3-Al-Qaida and the likes- These use Islam only as a political platform for their power. They take one verse out of context(similar to what I see here) and say ok, what we do is permitted.
The alqaida muslims are you guys talk about, that hate other muslims and wvr
I welcome any debate or if anyone needs further explanation
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There are 3 types of muslims
1-Secular muslims (with that those that interested in politics usually will be against the wests foriegn policy, and there are secular muslims that are support it for their own gain) Mahmud Abbas.
2-Regular normal muslims following Islam: average, G-d fearing, follows Islam as it was followed by the prophets.(oppose Israel and see it as unjust)
3-Al-Qaida and the likes- These use Islam only as a political platform for their power. They take one verse out of context(similar to what I see here) and say ok, what we do is permitted.
The alqaida muslims are you guys talk about, that hate other muslims and wvr
I welcome any debate or if anyone needs further explanation
You are right. There are 3 types of Muslims.
1. Pedophile Muslims
2. Nazi Muslims
3. Terrorist Muslims
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Joseph, why do you think muslims are leaving the middle east and going to live in every Country on Earth?
Is there any paticular reason muslims are doing this?
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As for the fact that the middle east AT PRESENT is not as up to par on the advancements of the rest of the world. I agree.
However, that is not a result of Islam, rather it is the result of a lack of Islam. At the time when Islam hit is height, Scientific advancements was everywhere, islamic scholars and mosques were everywhere, and jews in Muslim spain were releived of any persecution they used to endure in europe.
and there are many jewish scholars that agree that under the islamic empire, jews lived well thats is because there was NO INJUSTICE. as for now, Islam is regaining from the impact of colonial era and other things.
read the quran without biases.
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As for the fact that the middle east AT PRESENT is not as up to par on the advancements of the rest of the world. I agree.
However, that is not a result of Islam, rather it is the result of a lack of Islam. At the time when Islam hit is height, Scientific advancements was everywhere, islamic scholars and mosques were everywhere, and jews in Muslim spain were releived of any persecution they used to endure in europe.
and there are many jewish scholars that agree that under the islamic empire, jews lived well thats is because there was NO INJUSTICE. as for now, Islam is regaining from the impact of colonial era and other things.
read the quran without biases.
saying that the jews lived under some islamic state during some period of time doesn't prove anything. However, showing that in HUNDRED other periods of time jews were NOT persecuted by muslims in any islamic state, would prove anything. Need I quote you the hundred historical events where muslims persecuted jews and christians, or do you want me to just quote you the koran and the hadiths for that matter? you choose.
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As for the fact that the middle east AT PRESENT is not as up to par on the advancements of the rest of the world. I agree.
However, that is not a result of Islam, rather it is the result of a lack of Islam. At the time when Islam hit is height, Scientific advancements was everywhere, islamic scholars and mosques were everywhere, and jews in Muslim spain were releived of any persecution they used to endure in europe.
and there are many jewish scholars that agree that under the islamic empire, jews lived well thats is because there was NO INJUSTICE. as for now, Islam is regaining from the impact of colonial era and other things.
read the quran without biases.
saying that the jews lived under some islamic state during some period of time doesn't prove anything. However, showing that in HUNDRED other periods of time jews were NOT persecuted by muslims in any islamic state, would prove anything. Need I quote you the hundred historical events where muslims persecuted jews and christians, or do you want me to just quote you the koran and the hadiths for that matter? you choose.
I dont need to say anything, the historical facts are thier if you would just go to unbiased website, not IhateIslam.com. it seems like you do not want to believe what you see is true, even though there are many jewish scholars that can do anything but agree with the fact the jews were well in Islamic empires. There could have been instances here and thier BUT that was not the norm through the 1427 year history of Islam. The norm of jewish-persecution was in europe, not in morroco, not in eygypt, not syria, and not in iran or iraq or turkey. AND ESPECIALLY NOT IN SPAIN WHERE THERE WAS A LARGE JEWISH MINORITY.
and by the way, when the nazis came to the morrocan king, they told him to handover the jews of his country, he stated there are no jews, there are only morrocans. showing his unbiased justice that wvr religion, you were equal to all the citizens.
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Shouldn't your username be Yusuf.21?
You are sinning by using a bastardized English translation of your prophet Yusuf's good name! What would Allah think of you?
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I dont need to say anything, the historical facts are thier if you would just go to unbiased website, not IhateIslam.com. it seems like you do not want to believe what you see is true, even though there are many jewish scholars that can do anything but agree with the fact the jews were well in Islamic empires. There could have been instances here and thier BUT that was not the norm through the 1427 year history of Islam. The norm of jewish-persecution was in europe, not in morroco, not in eygypt, not syria, and not in iran or iraq or turkey. AND ESPECIALLY NOT IN SPAIN WHERE THERE WAS A LARGE JEWISH MINORITY.
and by the way, when the nazis came to the morrocan king, they told him to handover the jews of his country, he stated there are no jews, there are only morrocans. showing his unbiased justice that wvr religion, you were equal to all the citizens.
THE TEARS OF JIHAD
These figures are a rough estimate of the numbers the deaths of non-Muslims caused by the political act of jihad.
Africa
Thomas Sowell estimates that eleven million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and fourteen million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East[2]. For every slave captured many others died. Estimates of this collateral damage vary. The renowned missionary David Livingstone estimated that for every slave who reached the plantation five others died by being killed in the raid or died on the forced march from illness and privation.[3] Those who were left behind were the very young, the weak, the sick and the old. These soon died since their main providers had been killed or enslaved. So, for twenty-five million slaves delivered to the market, we have the death of about 120 million people. Muslims ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa.
120 million Africans
Christians
The number of Christians martyred by Islam is nine million.[4] A rough estimate by Raphael Moore in History of Asia Minor is that another fifty million died in wars by jihad. So to account for the one million African Christians killed in the 20th century we have:##
60 million Christians
Hindus
Koenard Elst in Negationism in India[5] gives an estimate of eighty million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the “funeral pyre of the Hindus”.
80 million Hindus
Buddhists
Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that in jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis (servants to Islam); everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India. The total is roughly ten million.[6]
10 million Buddhists
Jews
There were not enough Jews killed in jihad to significantly affect the totals of the Great Annihilation. The jihad in Arabia was 100 percent effective but the numbers were in the thousands, not millions. After that the Jews submitted and became the dhimmis (servants and second class citizens) of Islam and did not have geographic political power.
Total
This gives a rough estimate of 270 million killed by jihad.
Now [censored] off pretty please. Get your misleading [censored] out of here and off to soudan or yemen where you would fit just right in in a true islamic society.
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And if you think www.faithfreedom.org is Ihateislam.com , then boy you are hopeless. Do you know whats the worst part of being brainwashed? is that you don't know it. Same with your women. Your women don't know that they are slaves. Maybe because since childhood they manipulate them and implant the sense of slavery in their blood and genes, so when they grow up, they won't realize FREEDOM when they see it. Islam is the worst hoax of ideology to have struck the intellectual 'sane' human world. Why don't you follow this ex muslim-sheikh path that converted to christianity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HXX2fO8pM4
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first of all bonesfan, if you were joking.. haha, but if you were serios, how would my name effect my belief, no i dont have to change my name.
madmarv, again with the baseless facts,
first of all the numbers you give or way out of scope of even the population possible to be killed. like even if someone wanted to kill that many and wouldnt be possible because there would be enough people.
madmarv, again with the baseless facts, the head of them that in the slave trade, slaves were also sent to the arab countries, HAH NO, they were all sent across the atlantic were they were seen as "inferior and made by god to work. " Islam spread throughout africa through muslim merchants and travellers and not by fighting(excluding north africa which was easilty aquired due to local happines with the new muslim rulers, and it was a berber who opened spain for Islam.
and this is a historical fact you prlly wont find in your websites but find in every history book.
as for the christian number I have no idea how you came to such a number, what made muslim armies conquere asia minor and mideast easily was that the muslim leaders were ten times more just and fair with thier subject and local population slowly happily entered Islam.
Its muslims that should be angered with the crusaders who entered most arab cities and massacered its inhabitants. blood reached thier knees,
but what did saladin do, he did not shed blood when he entered jerusalem. because that would be anti-Islamic.
as for the hindus and budhists, you are wrong to say that Islam only allows jews and christians to survive as dhimmis, mohammad did not force the idolators of mecca to do anything, and they were completly defenseless and over powered. India was Islamically controlled for over 1000 years, it would not have lassted that long have what you said be true, there might have been one ruler who was harsh to hindus but that was against the norm.
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first of all bonesfan, if you were joking.. haha, but if you were serios, how would my name effect my belief, no i dont have to change my name.
madmarv, again with the baseless facts,
first of all the numbers you give or way out of scope of even the population possible to be killed. like even if someone wanted to kill that many and wouldnt be possible because there would be enough people.
madmarv, again with the baseless facts, the head of them that in the slave trade, slaves were also sent to the arab countries, HAH NO, they were all sent across the atlantic were they were seen as "inferior and made by G-d to work. " Islam spread throughout africa through muslim merchants and travellers and not by fighting(excluding north africa which was easilty aquired due to local happines with the new muslim rulers, and it was a berber who opened spain for Islam.
and this is a historical fact you prlly wont find in your websites but find in every history book.
as for the christian number I have no idea how you came to such a number, what made muslim armies conquere asia minor and mideast easily was that the muslim leaders were ten times more just and fair with thier subject and local population slowly happily entered Islam.
Its muslims that should be angered with the crusaders who entered most arab cities and massacered its inhabitants. blood reached thier knees,
but what did saladin do, he did not shed blood when he entered jerusalem. because that would be anti-Islamic.
as for the hindus and budhists, you are wrong to say that Islam only allows jews and christians to survive as dhimmis, mohammad did not force the idolators of mecca to do anything, and they were completly defenseless and over powered. India was Islamically controlled for over 1000 years, it would not have lassted that long have what you said be true, there might have been one ruler who was harsh to hindus but that was against the norm.
Yeah deny. All you know is denying and avoiding arguments. Source from here: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=5794&sec_id=5794
And again, any subject regarding Islam you will find it in www.faithfreedom.org.
THE DISASTERS OF THE QURAN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYRxrE3-F8U&feature=related
3 Parts. That is, if you have the heart and 1/4 of a brain to watch and understand it.
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I'll watch, I doubt Ill be convinced because me, without even being an Islamic scholar I know I will be able to easily explain why his points are un_islamic and baseless.
but you know what, I challenge you to read the quran in full, then find something WITHOUT FEELING OF HATRED AND BIAS, and challenge anything it says. I bet you havent even read the whole torah or bible.
www.quranexplorer.com lets see if you have the heart and brain to read it all.
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I'll watch, I doubt Ill be convinced because me, without even being an Islamic scholar I know I will be able to easily explain why his points are un_islamic and baseless.
but you know what, I challenge you to read the quran in full, then find something WITHOUT FEELING OF HATRED AND BIAS, and challenge anything it says. I bet you havent even read the whole torah or bible.
www.quranexplorer.com lets see if you have the heart and brain to read it all.
I'm an arab. I read the quran in arabic. I have a copy from it and another copy in my grandpa's. I read it one and a halt time so far (still reading the second time) and I've read many hadiths. When I finished reading it for the first time, I said to myself, what could drive a human being into believe in such nonsense? turning away to the hadiths, I was convinced that muhammad was nothing but a hating warmonger selfish pervert. If you can prove that he's not, someone is challenging you and is willing to pay 50,000 USD.
Here you go: http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/
Goodluck, and don't forget to bring all your scholars that REALLY know Islam to the debate.
You know when I see a muslim, the first thing that comes to my mind is a wish, that wish is not that he converts to christianity, or judaism, but to just leave Islam once and for all and then get his life back and from that point on he can get up on his feet.
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I'll watch, I doubt Ill be convinced because me, without even being an Islamic scholar I know I will be able to easily explain why his points are un_islamic and baseless.
but you know what, I challenge you to read the quran in full, then find something WITHOUT FEELING OF HATRED AND BIAS, and challenge anything it says. I bet you havent even read the whole torah or bible.
www.quranexplorer.com lets see if you have the heart and brain to read it all.
Hey, Youssouf! I have read the quran completely and it is full of contradictions, distortions of the Torah and even lies about the whole story of the people of Israel. It DOES condemn the Jews or says Jews were condemned by allah. The Chritians are also entitled as kuffar and the rare phrases saying that as "poeple of the scripture" they may stay alive is only accepted if they pay "jizya". Common, Islam is an ideology which wants to dominate the world in the name of evil.
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Anyone who worships a cult like book such as the evil koran has the potential to go from being smart to being the stupidest prerson in the room. "That Religon makes people retarted" Chaim
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I just have some food for thought.
On my Facebook page, I did an update about a Pakistani Taliban Chief being killed in an American missile strike.
The comment I saw, moreover who it was coming from, greatly surprised me. Muhammad Umair Jafri said,
"I feel happy about he Being Killed.
Regards,
A Pakistani"
Can you belive it? There is actually a Muslim against extremism.
And this is not an isolated incident. We see Turkey, the Iraqi Secutirty Forces, and and the Northern Alliance (in Afghanistan) allying with America. On top of that, we see Iranians - Iranians - protesting Ahmadinejad.
I will admit that we will rarely see Muslims supporting Israel, but at least some don't want Israel "wiped off the map."
In light of all of this, I think it's ignorant at best to think all Muslims are hateful, violent extremists. They may have an inherently hateful book, though. I will admit that.
What do you guys think?
I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you.
I think I have said this before here:
"All muslims are not extremists just like all those who watch kiddie-porn are not child rapists".
Do you think that those people protesting Iran are good Muslims?
Do you think that if opposition comes in power in Iran it will do any good to the world?
That is just like saying Fatah is much better than Hamas.But in reality there's no difference between.
There are many Muslims who will not support Sharia or Taliban , but don't think that makes them good.
Here are the reasons:
Muslims have a very strong feeling of tribalism.If a Palestinian terrorist gets killed, you will find muslims all over the world protesting against Israel.Do you think all those who are protesting are terrorists?
Definitely not.But think of just the opposite, where non-Muslims are killed by Muslims.How many Muslims can you find protesting against their fellow Muslims.Very few.That also not because they think it is wrong but simply because they are scared of backlash against them.
Muslims don't have any capacity for self-criticism.They will claim they are the one who are oppressed.
There are Muslims who will condemn terrorists and their violent activities.But if you ask them what's the reason for all this violence.They will always blame the America and the West.They will claim that the West have been oppressing them for so many years, and that's the reason why so many Muslims are turning fundamentalists.So, in the end they will justify the acts of terrorists.
I don't think there's any difference between terrorists and terrorist-sympathizers.
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A religion is not just a book. If a Muslim keeps the dietary laws, prays and fasts but does not support violence in anyway, if he openly supports Israel's right to exist and be free (not just abstaining from calling to wipe it off), then he can be considered an ally. But I have never heard about a pro-Israel Muslim. A Muslim who opposes fundamentalism just to be comfortable and get rid of Islamic intromisions in his life, or to live a more free and civilised life, but still has some objection to openly speaking out for Israel is just an hypocrite and cannot be considered an ally. However, we can encouarage even bad Muslims to rebel against fundamentalism for selfish reason (without aligning with them) because it would weak the enemy. Divide et impera (Divide and you shall rule)