JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: wonga66 on September 02, 2009, 05:54:22 PM
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Ehud Barak http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1111901.html expects soldiers to die for the State of Israel.
But is it too much to give up one's precious life for the current State: to expect death or cruel injury whilst defending non-serving Haredi ingrates who despise you, Israeli Arabs who hate you, Israeli leftists and liberals who are total opponents of True Torah and Kahanism, and the rest of the mostly unworthy Israeli population who can't wait to emigrate to LA and NY.
Let alone taking orders from evil military incompetents like Barak, his predecessor Peretz, Chiefs of Staffs like Halutz, Rabin etc
No wonder Israeli soldiers are demoralised defending all these unworthies.
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Nobody cares what you think, Nonny.
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"Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Gen. Patton Speech;
http://www.turtletrader.com/patton.html
:soldier:
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"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Gen. Patton Speech;
http://www.turtletrader.com/patton.html
:soldier:
I love this quote.
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and the rest of the mostly unworthy Israeli population who can't wait to emigrate to LA and NY.
So, we are all unworthy, huh? Get some fresh air, please! ::)
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It is a mitzvah and the soldiers know the risks.
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Nonny aka Mifletzet aka Flechette aka Galileerat aka wonga66 usually puts pictures in his posts. Since he forgot to do so here, I'll add a picture.
(http://www.topnews.in/files/barak.jpg)
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I know the risk and I'm doing it. I think your opinions are crap.
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I know the risk and I'm doing it. I think your opinions are crap.
That name better be a joke, especially if you are Israeli.
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Nope
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Nope
So you believe that there is no sanctity to Eretz Yisrael? You are simply fighting in defense of "Israeliness"?
Do you believe the Jewish people were given Eretz Yisrael by Hashem?
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Every inch of land that Hashem gave to us, should be Eretz Yisrael right now.
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Every inch of land that Hashem gave to us, should be Eretz Yisrael right now.
I doubt if 1% of Deform Jews believe that, dude.
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Every inch of land that Hashem gave to us, should be Eretz Yisrael right now.
So how are you Reform? Reform Jews do not even believe that Eretz Yisrael was given to us. They believe whatever the professor of religious studies tells them.
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Different congregations believe different things.
Every single one in my congregation does, dude.
Bonesfan, I love how you guys sit around complaining about different denominations. Have fun while the muslims are killing us off, thanks.
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Different congregations believe different things.
Every single one in my congregation does, dude.
Bonesfan, I love how you guys sit around complaining about different denominations. Have fun while the muslims are killing us off, thanks.
What city do you live in?
I grew up in the reform community and I can tell you that if there was a whole congregation that believed in Greater Israel, they would be well-known throughout the REform community and very hated.
That being said, Reform Jews do not believe in Greater Israel, and I would really like to know this Reform congregation where everyone believes in Greater Israel. As I said, I was raised in the Reform movement, so there is no fooling me on these things, and I know the mindset of Reform Jews very well.
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http://www.or-hadash-haifa.org/ (In Israel)
http://tx016.urj.net/rabbi.htm (In US)
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Reform is not Judaism. it is a cult which basically establishes a country club for people of Jewish ethnicity. When I was a child my parents enrolled my brother and I in a Reform 'Temple'... Thank goodness my parents were bright enough to realize that what they were teaching was not Jewish... We were Bar Mitzvahed in a Conservative synagogue... I have since become a Bal Teshuva and attend Orthodox minyans.
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Great to hear your opinions but I think differently. I'm proud to be Reform, and I'm proud to pick up arms for Israel.
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Great to hear your opinions but I think differently. I'm proud to be Reform, and I'm proud to pick up arms for Israel.
Do you believe in the Torah? Or is it just a book or fairy tails? Every Reform congregation here in USA denies Torah and mitzvot... I read one of your links and it belittles some mitzvahs it considers 'ritual'... What is the meaning of this?
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Great to hear your opinions but I think differently. I'm proud to be Reform, and I'm proud to pick up arms for Israel.
What brought you to this forum?
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Yes I believe in Torah and Mitzvot
and what brought me to these forums were my political beliefs.
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Yes I believe in Torah and Mitzvot
and what brought me to these forums were my political beliefs.
Why are you attracted to 'Judaism lite'? The truth is Judaism is much more involved than eating bagels and lox...
PS: I notice a picture of a guitar on the bimah... Do you believe it is OK to play musical instruments on Shabbat? Do you drive to services? These are the areas where 'Progressive Judaism' are destroying the Jewish soul...
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Yes I looked at the site and it definitely was a far cry from real Judaism.
One thing I noticed, this synagogue was offering easy conversions for intermarried Olim.
As well, every year the synagogue delivers food to poor Ethiopian families in Israel. Why anybody would do charity based on race can only be explained by the same liberal self-serving attitude and the false displays of virtuousness to people who are black, simply to feel good.
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Reform Jew, what are your political believes? Are you a Kahanist?
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What wrong with being Jewish "lite". Most of the IDF soldiers I met are Reform. The reform Jews I know believe in G-D but don't believe in some rituals like wearing keepah and etc.
It actually makes sense because I don't think anybody was putting on tefelin 3,500 years ago. I don't think G-D told the Jews to put on tefilin as soon as they invented plastic. Can we get some Torah quotes on rituals such as these.
Btw, the mindset of Reform Jews are, "I don't need to do rituals for G-D to love me. All I have to do is be a good person".
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What wrong with being Jewish "lite". Most of the IDF soldiers I met are Reform. The reform Jews I know believe in G-D but don't believe in some rituals like wearing keepah and etc.
It actually makes sense because I don't think anybody was putting on tefelin 3,500 years ago. I don't think G-D told the Jews to put on tefilin as soon as they invented plastic. Can we get some Torah quotes on rituals such as these.
Btw, the mindset of Reform Jews are, "I don't need to do rituals for G-D to love me. All I have to do is be a good person".
There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.
That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means. In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.
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What am I? I don't believe in wearing Keepah because Moses didn't wear it, neither did Abraham, or even the Jews of the Roman Empire. What I believe is that you just need to be a good person, don't murder, don't steal, don't be a bad person, and G-D will love you. I remember some Rabbis were caught selling Ecstasy (they were Heredis) in the 90s. I'd rather be a good person overall then a guy who spends all of his time doing rituals. I wasn't raised very religious because of Soviet influence on my family but I was always told that there is a G-D watching me and what I do.
I do know that I'm not living true Judaism though. I do fast on Yom Kippur, I go to the synagouge and pray on Yom Kippur, and I was Bar Mitzvahed.
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Different congregations believe different things.
Every single one in my congregation does, dude.
Bonesfan, I love how you guys sit around complaining about different denominations. Have fun while the muslims are killing us off, thanks.
So you go to a reform synagogue in Haifa, and everyone in your "congregation" believes in Greater Israel? I find that hard to believe.
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There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.
That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means. In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.
And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.
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What am I? I don't believe in wearing Keepah because Moses didn't wear it, neither did Abraham, or even the Jews of the Roman Empire. What I believe is that you just need to be a good person, don't murder, don't steal, don't be a bad person, and G-D will love you. I remember some Rabbis were caught selling Ecstasy (they were Heredis) in the 90s. I'd rather be a good person overall then a guy who spends all of his time doing rituals. I wasn't raised very religious because of Soviet influence on my family but I was always told that there is a G-D watching me and what I do.
I do know that I'm not living true Judaism though. I do fast on Yom Kippur, I go to the synagouge and pray on Yom Kippur, and I was Bar Mitzvahed.
That knowledge greatly separates you from a Reform Jew, because it means you have the capacity to strive towards being a better Jew. Reform Jews, on the other hand, believe that their type of Judaism is suprior to Orthodoxy, and thus never have any reason to change their ways.
As for a Kippa, yes Jews did wear it in Roman times, and it is in the Talmud, but I can understand your sentiments.
As for just needing to be "a good person", this is simply not true. What you stated were a few Noachide laws, which all humans are bound to. Jews being the Chosen People, have much more intense and much more numerous obligations, and this includes rituals and codes of behaviour.
I find it interesting that you are aware that your family's religion was destroyed by the Soviets, yet you don't seem to want to compensate for what they did by returning tothe ways of your forefathers. You should not let the despicable Soviet authorities continue to harm your sense of Judaism in the year 2009.
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There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.
That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means. In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.
And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.
If there are Haredim that do not follow the Torah on how to treat their fellow man, they then too are not being good Jews.
Also, rituals and other things like that come from the Torah, which represents the eternal essence of Judaism. So, one who does not follow the Torah but is a nice person is not practicing Judaism as authentically as one who does follow the Torah, including in their everyday relations with people.
Lastly, I have had the pleasure of being hosted by Haredim in Israel, and it is unfounded to say that the majority of Haredim are morally bankrupt and indecent. THe majority of Haredim follow the Torah, and thus are not morally bankrupt at all. One cannot deny that their priorities are mixed up, but that is not as a result of malice of or moral bankruptcy.
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ALL the soldiers know the risks and it is a TREMENDOUS mitzvah.
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ALL the soldiers know the risks and it is a TREMENDOUS mitzvah.
I do not know if I can agree with you on that.
Those who volunteer from Chutz L'Aretz are definitely performing a tremendous Mitzvah in fighting.
I do not know how much of a Mitzvah it is to be drafted and forced to fight, because that does not necessarily guarantee that every soldier will fight hard to defend Eretz Yisrael. For example, there are many members of Peace Now in Tzahal who refuse to serve in certain places. These scumbags are by no means performing a Mitzvah just by being members of Tzahal.
As for dying while defending Eretz Yisrael, this is a kiddush hashem, and is one of the greatest mitzvahs one can perform for Am Yisrael.
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Reform Jew,
I feel for you and hope that our discussion here has not turned you away from our faith. We are in the month of Elul and we are supposed to be working on bringing unity to Klal Yisroel. We are supposed to be doing the required tikkun {rectification} of our middot {character traits} in our act of Teshuva {return to Hashem}.
Please study deeper our beliefs. Torah is very good for the soul, for the Jewish soul, and for the world. There is so much great wisdom in the holy Scriptures and the Talmud and the writings of our sages... Every day I study Torah at the website http://www.torahanytime.com . Please give a listen to some of the pre-Rosh Hashanna talks and maybe you will be attracted further.
I hope that your Jewish studies increase...
muman613
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Different congregations believe different things.
Every single one in my congregation does, dude.
Hey man, I respect that.
Reform changes with the winds. It really does vary from congregation to congregation, almost completely different religions....
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Yes I believe in Torah and Mitzvot
and what brought me to these forums were my political beliefs.
Why are you attracted to 'Judaism lite'? The truth is Judaism is much more involved than eating bagels and lox...
He just said he believes in Torah and Mitzvot. And then you counter about lox and bagels... I really hope you're not comparing or actually think he refers to lox and bagels when he says something like "I believe in Torah and Mitzvot." He knows what that means. This is not your average reform Jew. So I can appreciate this guy.
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What wrong with being Jewish "lite". Most of the IDF soldiers I met are Reform. The reform Jews I know believe in G-D but don't believe in some rituals like wearing keepah and etc.
Most IDF may be secular and/or "traditional" but I assure you, they are NOT reform. Israel is a different place than America.
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It actually makes sense because I don't think anybody was putting on tefelin 3,500 years ago. I don't think G-D told the Jews to put on tefilin as soon as they invented plastic.
Plastic? ???
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There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.
That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means. In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.
And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.
Your opinion, but not Judaism's opinion. When we are commanded to do mitzvot, that does not mean mindless ritualistic, and a guy with a black hat but selling drugs or doing whatever terrible crime while outwardly appearing religious by eating only kosher. We are commanded to keep the mitzvot AND be a good person is part and parcel of it. That some people are better able to be a good person than others (or some people are less able to, less willing to, or just plain don't care), does not in any way take away from our obligation to keep mitzvot. When someone points out that they don't like how a certain haredi person or group acts, and says they don't care about mitzvot because of it, it sounds like people just making excuses. One thing has got nothing to do with the other. And as Yochai has pointed out, I assure you that what some people assume to be behavior of large groups of haredim is not generally true. Some bad apples, like any group, so what?
PART of keeping the mitzvot is to have ahavat Yisrael.... It doesn't supercede everything.
That's the problem with reform, they tried to take one or two mitzvot and then redefine Judaism as ONLY those one or two while taking away, stifling, minimizing all the rest. What's left is vapid emptiness without appeal and without spirituality. But unfortunately haredi are sometimes guilty of the same thing, focusing too much on one or two things and not enough on others (not nearly focused enough on milchemeth misswa for example). But at the same time, haredim are still loyal to Torah and the tradition. Reform as a whole just does not have that.
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There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.
That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means. In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.
And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.
If there are Haredim that do not follow the Torah on how to treat their fellow man, they then too are not being good Jews.
Also, rituals and other things like that come from the Torah, which represents the eternal essence of Judaism. So, one who does not follow the Torah but is a nice person is not practicing Judaism as authentically as one who does follow the Torah, including in their everyday relations with people.
Lastly, I have had the pleasure of being hosted by Haredim in Israel, and it is unfounded to say that the majority of Haredim are morally bankrupt and indecent. THe majority of Haredim follow the Torah, and thus are not morally bankrupt at all. One cannot deny that their priorities are mixed up, but that is not as a result of malice of or moral bankruptcy.
Well said. I agree with you here 100%
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According to this http://www.thebarrychamishwebsite.com/newsletters/atillabarak061907.htm
religious Israeli soldiers have died and been deliberately sacrificed by Barak!
Would you obey an order from an unworthy leftist settlement-dismantler like Barak?
(http://www.famedpeople.com/pictures/Ehud-Barak.jpg)
And he has the gall to tell soldiers that they must expect to die....for his career and NWO masters he means!
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According to this http://www.thebarrychamishwebsite.com/newsletters/atillabarak061907.htm
religious Israeli soldiers have died and been deliberately sacrificed by Barak!
Would you obey an order from an unworthy leftist settlement-dismantler like Barak?
And he has the gall to tell soldiers that they must expect to die....for his career and NWO masters he means!
You know who writes stuff like this and who buys into it? Someone looking for an excuse not to serve. (or perhaps a "justification" for their refraining from doing so).
And I'm NOT talking about chamish here. He has his own issues.
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I can type for hours on this topic.............
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I can type for hours on this topic.............
Hm. That's interesting. So um... why not.... Type something. Go ahead.
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Liberal Jews are helping the muslims to kill us off. Yes, that is a fact !
Liberal Jews voted for this monster that is now occupying the White House.
Liberal Jews who side with our enemies have turned against their own people and G-d.
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Liberal Jews are helping the muslims to kill us off. etc
Perhaps you posted to the wrong thread. This has nothing to do with the topic here. I also don't think your first statement is accurate. Whatever "liberal Jews" may be doing wrong, none of them do it with any intention to "kill people off" - people of any kind. Perhaps the worst of them want Israelis killed off, but even that is rare, and certainly not americans.
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Liberal Jews exist in Israel, and this thread is about Israel.
Liberal Jews are helping muslims to kill off the Jews, this is true in Israel.
Liberal Jews in Israel are helping the muslims to get more land, that is true, is it not?
Liberal Jews in Israel trusted obama and their realtives here in the US voted for him, is that true or not?
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Liberal Jews exist in Israel, and this thread is about Israel.
That is a bit of a stretch. This thread was about people fighting in the IDF to defend Israel.
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Liberal Jews in Israel trusted obama and their realtives here in the US voted for him, is that true or not?
No, that's not true. Majority of Jew in Israel hate obama. He's mostly seen as a pariah. That includes some of the left. Not that that matters anyway, what's it got to do with Jews in America? Their "relatives" ? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do leftist Jews in Israel have only liberal relatives? And do they only live in USA? Are all family members the same political persuasion? Not realistic.
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I see no reason to blame Liberal Jews, as opposed to all Liberal people.
Why only talk about Liberal Jews, and ignore that most people who voted in Obama were NOT JEWISH.
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I see no reason to blame Liberal Jews, as opposed to all Liberal people.
Why only talk about Liberal Jews, and ignore that most people who voted in Obama were NOT JEWISH.
But more should be expected from Jews. That is the problem.
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I see no reason to blame Liberal Jews, as opposed to all Liberal people.
Why only talk about Liberal Jews, and ignore that most people who voted in Obama were NOT JEWISH.
But more should be expected from Jews. That is the problem.
If history has taught us anything, it is that less can be expected from the Jews in terms of politics.
Secular Jews have always been overwhelmingly liberal, even in Europe in the old days. So the fact that 78% of Jews voted for Obama should not surprise people, nor should they fear it as much.
BUT, the White Christian population does not have this history of Liberalism, so it is much more dangerous that so many of these type of people are now becoming liberal.
If Jews are Liberal, the status quo remains, but if the rest of America becomes liberal, then America is doomed.
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I once had an argument with a WN-type person on youtube who was blaming most of America's problems on left wing Jews even though there are many more gentiles in the United States. I don't like it when people overemphasize left wing Jews.
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Liberal Jews exist in Israel, and this thread is about Israel.
That is a bit of a stretch. This thread was about people fighting in the IDF to defend Israel.
If I misunderstood this thread please accept my apology. Thanks.
Shalom - Dox
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No, that's not true. Majority of Jew in Israel hate obama. He's mostly seen as a pariah. That includes some of the left. Not that that matters anyway, what's it got to do with Jews in America? Their "relatives" ? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do leftist Jews in Israel have only liberal relatives? And do they only live in USA? Are all family members the same political persuasion? Not realistic.
She said that LIBERAL Jews in Israel support Obama. How is that not true?
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I once had an argument with a WN-type person on youtube who was blaming most of America's problems on left wing Jews even though there are many more gentiles in the United States. I don't like it when people overemphasize left wing Jews.
That is true, the self-hating leftist Jews of America are only serving their Gentile masters.
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I see no reason to blame Liberal Jews, as opposed to all Liberal people.
Why only talk about Liberal Jews, and ignore that most people who voted in Obama were NOT JEWISH.
I know Jews are a minority but even the idea that 1 Jew would vote for obama is unacceptable to me.
There is no mention from me about how the Liberal Jews were soley responsible for getting obama elected.
You think I don't know that most americans who voted for obama are not Jewish?
I make comments about liberal Jews and you assume I don't know any facts about how obama got into power?
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Thank you Bonesfan. I am glad you understood what I was trying to say.
Kahane said this tread was about Jews fighting to defend Israel and I began to rant about the troubles liberal Jews cause.
I never meant to get off the subject, however Liberal Jews have created such problems that it does pertain ( to a certain degree ) about the defense of Israel. The righteous Jews who are fighting for the very existence of Israel are in conflict with the Liberal Jews in Israel who happen to be defending the nazi palestinians.
Shalom - Dox
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I see no reason to blame Liberal Jews, as opposed to all Liberal people.
Why only talk about Liberal Jews, and ignore that most people who voted in Obama were NOT JEWISH.
But more should be expected from Jews. That is the problem.
Thank you Mo.