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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 11:46:42 AM

Title: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 11:46:42 AM
SAN FRANCISCO – Marijuana advocates are gathering signatures to get as many as three pot-legalization measures on the ballot in 2010 in California, setting up what could be a groundbreaking clash with the federal government over U.S. drug policy.

At least one poll shows voters would support lifting the pot prohibition, which would make the state of more than 38 million the first in the nation to legalize marijuana.

Such action would also send the state into a headlong conflict with the U.S. government while raising questions about how federal law enforcement could enforce its drug laws in the face of a massive government-sanctioned pot industry.

The state already has a thriving marijuana trade, thanks to a first-of-its-kind 1996 ballot measure that allowed people to smoke pot for medical purposes. But full legalization could turn medical marijuana dispensaries into all-purpose pot stores, and the open sale of joints could become commonplace on mom-and-pop liquor store counters in liberal locales like Oakland and Santa Cruz.

Under federal law, marijuana is illegal, period. After overseeing a series of raids that destroyed more than 300,000 marijuana plants in California's Sierra Nevada foothills this summer, federal drug czar Gil Kerlikowske proclaimed, "Legalization is not in the president's vocabulary, and it's not in mine."

The U.S. Supreme Court also has ruled that federal law enforcement agents have the right to crack down even on marijuana users and distributors who are in compliance with California's medical marijuana law.

But some legal scholars and policy analysts say the government will not be able to require California to help in enforcing the federal marijuana ban if the state legalizes the drug.

Without assistance from the state's legions of narcotics officers, they say, federal agents could do little to curb marijuana in California.

"Even though that federal ban is still in place and the federal government can enforce it, it doesn't mean the states have to follow suit," said Robert Mikos, a Vanderbilt University law professor who recently published a paper about the issue.

Nothing can stop federal anti-drug agents from making marijuana arrests, even if Californians legalize pot, he said. However, the U.S. government cannot pass a law requiring local and state police, sheriff's departments or state narcotics enforcers to help.

That is significant, because nearly all arrests for marijuana crimes are made at the state level. Of more than 847,000 marijuana-related arrests in 2008, for example, just over 6,300 suspects were booked by federal law enforcement, or fewer than 1 percent.

State marijuana bans have allowed the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration to focus on big cases, said Rosalie Pacula, director of drug policy research at the Rand Corp.

"It's only something the feds are going to be concerned about if you're growing tons of pot," Pacula said. For anything less, she said, "they don't have the resources to waste on it."

In a typical recent prosecution, 29-year-old Luke Scarmazzo was sentenced to nearly 22 years and co-defendant Ricardo Ruiz Montes to 20 years in federal prison for drug trafficking through a medical marijuana dispensary in Modesto.

At his bond hearing, prosecutors showed a rap video in which Scarmazzo boasts about his successful marijuana business, taunts federal authorities and carries cardboard boxes filled with cash. The DEA said the pair made more than $4.5 million in marijuana sales in less than two years.

The DEA would not speculate on the effects of any decision by California to legalize pot. "Marijuana is illegal under federal law and DEA will continue to attack large-scale drug trafficking organizations at every level," spokeswoman Dawn Dearden said.

The most conservative of the three ballot measures would only legalize possession of up to one ounce of pot for personal use by adults 21 and older — an amount that already under state law can only result at most in a $100 fine.

The proposal would also allow anyone to grow a plot of marijuana up to 5 feet-by-5 feet on their private property. The size, Pacula said, seems specifically designed to keep the total number of plants grown below 100, the threshold for DEA attention.

The greatest potential for conflict with the U.S. government would likely come from the provision that would give local governments the power to decide city-by-city whether to allow pot sales.

Hundreds of medical marijuana dispensaries across the state already operate openly with only modest federal interference. If recreational marijuana became legal, these businesses could operate without requiring their customers to qualify as patients.

Any business that grew bigger than the already typical storefront shops, however, would probably be too tempting a target for federal prosecution, experts said.

Even if Washington could no longer count on California to keep pot off its own streets, Congress or the Obama administration could try to coerce cooperation by withholding federal funds.

But with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder's announcement earlier this year that the Justice Department would defer to state laws on marijuana, the federal response to possible legalization remains unclear.

Doug Richardson, a spokesman for the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy, said the office is in the process of re-evaluating its policies on marijuana and other drugs.

Richardson said the office under Obama was pursuing a "more comprehensive" approach than the previous administration, with emphasis on prevention and treatment as well as law enforcement.

"We're trying to base stuff on the facts, the evidence and the science," he said, "not some particular prejudice somebody brings to the table."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091008/ap_on_re_us/us_marijuana_legalization
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 08, 2009, 01:39:24 PM
Wish I could be outraged by this, but I'm not. Hard to get incensed by a little Mary (no pun intended) when Bolshevik CA authorities are routinely letting murderous, raping schvartzes and other scum walk out of jail after a couple years or not charging them at all.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 01:42:31 PM
(http://planetsmilies.net/smoking-smiley-5427.gif) (http://planetsmilies.net)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 08, 2009, 01:42:57 PM
ROFTLMAO where did you find that emoticon?  :::D
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 01:43:48 PM
ROFTLMAO where did you find that emoticon?  :::D
http://planetsmilies.net/smiley/smoking-5427.html
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: briann on October 08, 2009, 02:16:08 PM
One issue I have with this (as a californian) is the culture it brings.  The redlight district in Holland became a magnet for weirdos and ultimately crime for this reason.  If they did this in parts of California, it would become even worse. 

Also, I dont like the idea that my kids would live in a culture where Pot smoking is common-place.  I understand that it would be regulated and safer, but most people would prefer it be FAR away from where they live.



Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 02:24:04 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 02:25:11 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 02:31:10 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 02:32:25 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 02:36:53 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 02:38:28 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

This is total BS... Pot is not a 'gateway drug' and I have known many who used it while attending university. It also doesn't make you aggressive, it makes you more mellow and less likely to be violent. I used it for almost 20 years and never had I become violent because of pot...

PS: Many more cigarette smokers are more violent than pot smokers..
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 02:38:44 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

That is such BS pot is not a gateway drug.
Pot does not make people agressive.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 02:42:57 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

That is such BS pot is not a gateway drug.
Pot does not make people aggressive.

Look I was in high school and had 5 friends that we always hung out together. 2 used pot. They were more likely to vandalise, rob cars, pick fights etc. Anyone around my old estate that smokes pot turn out to be aggressive and/or drug dealers. Your saying that's ok?
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 02:44:43 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

That is such BS pot is not a gateway drug.
Pot does not make people aggressive.

Look I was in high school and had 5 friends that we always hung out together. 2 used pot. They were more likely to vandalise, rob cars, pick fights etc. Anyone around my old estate that smokes pot turn out to be aggressive and/or drug dealers. Your saying that's ok?

That is people you know.
Just because that is how people acted that you know does not mean everyone will act that way
I know people who are pot heads and they are mellow people.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 02:50:33 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

That is such BS pot is not a gateway drug.
Pot does not make people aggressive.

Look I was in high school and had 5 friends that we always hung out together. 2 used pot. They were more likely to vandalise, rob cars, pick fights etc. Anyone around my old estate that smokes pot turn out to be aggressive and/or drug dealers. Your saying that's ok?

That is people you know.
Just because that is how people acted that you know does not mean everyone will act that way
I know people who are pot heads and they are mellow people.
No you are wrong This is just an example of what pot does. Anywhere in Ireland, anything to do with drugs leads to crime and decay. And it all starts with pot, a friend offers you pot, you give into peer pressure, then you become an addict (most cases not all) then you start with harder drugs.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 02:51:19 PM
I know doctors and engineers who smoke pot... It doesn't make them violent or anti-social, on the contrary... It makes them more sociable, like wine does... Drugs are always subjective in nature, that is each person has his/her own reaction to the substance. I will certainly assert that hard drugs like cocaine and meth are definitely dangerous and should never be legalized.

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 02:52:41 PM
Quote
<snip>

That is people you know.
Just because that is how people acted that you know does not mean everyone will act that way
I know people who are pot heads and they are mellow people.
No you are wrong This is just an example of what pot does. Anywhere in Ireland, anything to do with drugs leads to crime and decay. And it all starts with pot, a friend offers you pot, you give into peer pressure, then you become an addict (most cases not all) then you start with harder drugs.

Maybe thats in Ireland... But here in CA it doesnt work like that... Most professionals here have tried and used pot and they don't have the reactions which you describe... Im sorry that you have this experience... I hope your friends find a way out of the desperation caused by hard drugs. Do not blame pot for their problems... They are to blame..

PS: I am against legalization because I believe it will lead to sliding on other social issues.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 02:53:02 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

That is such BS pot is not a gateway drug.
Pot does not make people aggressive.

Look I was in high school and had 5 friends that we always hung out together. 2 used pot. They were more likely to vandalise, rob cars, pick fights etc. Anyone around my old estate that smokes pot turn out to be aggressive and/or drug dealers. Your saying that's ok?

That is people you know.
Just because that is how people acted that you know does not mean everyone will act that way
I know people who are pot heads and they are mellow people.
No you are wrong This is just an example of what pot does. Anywhere in Ireland, anything to do with drugs leads to crime and decay. And it all starts with pot, a friend offers you pot, you give into peer pressure, then you become an addict (most cases not all) then you start with harder drugs.

That is the same with cigarettes you become addicted Alcohol you become addicted and become an alcoholic.

Where do you get most cases it leads to harder drugs?
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 02:56:36 PM
I know doctors and engineers who smoke pot... It doesn't make them violent or anti-social, on the contrary... It makes them more sociable, like wine does... Drugs are always subjective in nature, that is each person has his/her own reaction to the substance. I will certainly assert that hard drugs like cocaine and meth are definitely dangerous and should never be legalized.


People who smoke pot are cowards who can't face reality thus turning to pot to forget about reality and if anyone says what your doing is wrong they become aggressive. I have experienced this many times. It's a very slippery road and if it becomes legal, you know around the house a child can pick it up and get hooked. Are you prepared to risk the lives of children because you love smoking dope? (and harder drugs for a bigger kick)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 02:59:01 PM
Every drug prescription or not have side effects so why not ban them too then since they might lead to hard drug use
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 03:01:34 PM
Every drug prescription or not have side effects so why not ban them too then since they might lead to hard drug use
Because with pot being made legal like cigarettes you won't need a prescription and have as much as you like.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 03:05:07 PM
Every drug prescription or not have side effects so why not ban them too then since they might lead to hard drug use
Because with pot being made legal like cigarettes you won't need a prescription and have as much as you like.

That being the case the government could regulate it and make pot a lot weaker.
The pot bought on the streets are laced with stuff making them m ore potent and dangerous.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 03:08:13 PM
Every drug prescription or not have side effects so why not ban them too then since they might lead to hard drug use
Because with pot being made legal like cigarettes you won't need a prescription and have as much as you like.

That being the case the government could regulate it and make pot a lot weaker.
The pot bought on the streets are laced with stuff making them m ore potent and dangerous.
Yes goverment makes it weaker then pot heads will want stronger pot and we are in bigger trouble as the drug dealers can buy it legally now, no risk and just make it stronger and sell it for profit.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 03:09:28 PM
I like how here in NorCal there is medical marijuana stores. There are many very potent strains but I think this is a good thing. Also it is relatively easy to grow the stuff {I did this for myself about 10 years ago}...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 03:10:23 PM
Every drug prescription or not have side effects so why not ban them too then since they might lead to hard drug use
Because with pot being made legal like cigarettes you won't need a prescription and have as much as you like.

You don't need a prescription for cigarettes or alcohol which are both many times more dangerous than pot... Even the potent pot...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 03:11:50 PM
I like how here in NorCal there is medical marijuana stores. There are many very potent strains but I think this is a good thing. Also it is relatively easy to grow the stuff {I did this for myself about 10 years ago}...


Most of the people who go to the medical marijuana stores do not need it for medical reasons.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 03:12:22 PM
I like how here in NorCal there is medical marijuana stores. There are many very potent strains but I think this is a good thing. Also it is relatively easy to grow the stuff {I did this for myself about 10 years ago}...


Most of the people who go to the medical marijuana stores do not need it for medical reasons.

Do you live in America?
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 03:13:56 PM
Every drug prescription or not have side effects so why not ban them too then since they might lead to hard drug use
Because with pot being made legal like cigarettes you won't need a prescription and have as much as you like.

You don't need a prescription for cigarettes or alcohol which are both many times more dangerous than pot... Even the potent pot...


Yes that's true but they don't lead to other hard things like oh lets say (CRACK & SMACK).
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 03:17:08 PM
I like how here in NorCal there is medical marijuana stores. There are many very potent strains but I think this is a good thing. Also it is relatively easy to grow the stuff {I did this for myself about 10 years ago}...


Most of the people who go to the medical marijuana stores do not need it for medical reasons.

Do you live in America?
No, but as any logical person would assume that in most cases America or not, those stores aren't for the majority of people with a medical illness that they need pot. They are mainly junkies.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 03:18:15 PM
I like how here in NorCal there is medical marijuana stores. There are many very potent strains but I think this is a good thing. Also it is relatively easy to grow the stuff {I did this for myself about 10 years ago}...


Most of the people who go to the medical marijuana stores do not need it for medical reasons.

Do you live in America?
No, but as any logical person would assume that in most cases America or not, those stores aren't for the majority of people with a medical illness that they need pot. They are mainly junkies.

Those places you need a prescription and or a card that they can check to see if you are allowed to get the pot.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 03:21:42 PM
I like how here in NorCal there is medical marijuana stores. There are many very potent strains but I think this is a good thing. Also it is relatively easy to grow the stuff {I did this for myself about 10 years ago}...


Most of the people who go to the medical marijuana stores do not need it for medical reasons.

Do you live in America?
No, but as any logical person would assume that in most cases America or not, those stores aren't for the majority of people with a medical illness that they need pot. They are mainly junkies.

Those places you need a prescription and or a card that they can check to see if you are allowed to get the pot.
Ok I misinterpreted your last post sorry.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: New Yorker on October 08, 2009, 03:32:03 PM

I'm all for it, take it further, legalize all drugs, let cocaine and heroin cost a nickel a hit, then the drek of society can quickly poison themselves to death and the rest of us won't have to deal with that scum.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 03:35:35 PM

I'm all for it, take it further, legalize all drugs, let cocaine and heroin cost a nickel a hit, then the drek of society can quickly poison themselves to death and the rest of us won't have to deal with that scum.

That is not the way of Torah. We must be socially responsible. But the negative impact of marijuana is negligable. At this time the laws regarding pot are being used for racist reasons. I know that I have been stopped with pot on me and I was let free because I am a white jew, while a black with a similar amount of weed on him has been taken in and locked up... I don't think this should be used for that purpose. I think that pot is not a dangerous drug like cocaine or heroine, and as a result the law should allow for it. But I don't think letting everyone do anything, even dangerous drugs, is a socially responsible idea.

The fact is pot is also not exactly kosher... Either is cigarettes or alcohol because they all have negative impact on the human body. Torah is for life and living and doing substances doesn't increase life, it often has negative impact.

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 08, 2009, 03:56:45 PM

I'm all for it, take it further, legalize all drugs, let cocaine and heroin cost a nickel a hit, then the drek of society can quickly poison themselves to death and the rest of us won't have to deal with that scum.

Problem is that this drug-addled slime will wreak tons of crime and savagery on the rest of society before they die.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: FreedomFighter08 on October 08, 2009, 04:28:58 PM
Quote
Look I was in high school and had 5 friends that we always hung out together. 2 used pot. They were more likely to vandalise, rob cars, pick fights etc. Anyone around my old estate that smokes pot turn out to be aggressive and/or drug dealers. Your saying that's ok?

The only reason they smoked pot was because they were troublemakers and pot was illegal. I know a friend who smokes pot, has a 97% average in high school, and is a really smart guy. He has a job, he's a junior in high school, he's even working out now and he still smokes pot. He doesn't agree that marijuana is a gateway drug because he personally believes that crack should be illegal and everybody who uses hard drugs should be put in jail. But he sees weed as a plant just like cigarettes.

Now let's get this over with and legalize it already. It's gonna happen when the younger generation takes over.

Let's legalize and tax the hell out of weed but throw any drug dealers in jail (increase sentences for marijuana dealers who are dealing without a license).
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 04:36:38 PM
Quote
Look I was in high school and had 5 friends that we always hung out together. 2 used pot. They were more likely to vandalise, rob cars, pick fights etc. Anyone around my old estate that smokes pot turn out to be aggressive and/or drug dealers. Your saying that's ok?

The only reason they smoked pot was because they were troublemakers and pot was illegal. I know a friend who smokes pot, has a 97% average in high school, and is a really smart guy. He has a job, he's a junior in high school, he's even working out now and he still smokes pot. He doesn't agree that marijuana is a gateway drug because he personally believes that crack should be illegal and everybody who uses hard drugs should be put in jail. But he sees weed as a plant just like cigarettes.

Now let's get this over with and legalize it already. It's gonna happen when the younger generation takes over.

Let's legalize and tax the hell out of weed but throw any drug dealers in jail (increase sentences for marijuana dealers who are dealing without a license).
They weren't trouble makers before they used pot.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: FreedomFighter08 on October 08, 2009, 04:39:06 PM
But the point is, did they use pot because they loved the feeling, or because it was illegal and they felt like they were making a statement against society.

But pot doesn't make you agressive. It makes you mellow and hungry. Millions of people in the world are smoking it as we speak and how many of those are stealing or fighting?
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on October 08, 2009, 04:42:48 PM
Wish I could be outraged by this, but I'm not. Hard to get incensed by a little Mary (no pun intended) when Bolshevik CA authorities are routinely letting murderous, raping schvartzes and other scum walk out of jail after a couple years or not charging them at all.

Shalom Bonesfan.....You bring up an excellent point. I am in full agreement with you.

There are far worse things like muslims taking over, criminals being let loose to commit more crimes, welfare to the lazy and illegals out of control, illegals not being sent back, and the list of horrors is endless.
Our State is ruined.


                                           Shalom & G-d Bless you.....

                                                      Dox
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: FreedomFighter08 on October 08, 2009, 04:44:46 PM
But you have the Terminator for governor! What can possibly go wrong when you hire a Hollywood actor who used steroids in bodybuilding competitions to run your whole state... :laugh:

Wait wut? :::D
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 08, 2009, 04:48:44 PM
But the point is, did they use pot because they loved the feeling, or because it was illegal and they felt like they were making a statement against society.

But pot doesn't make you agressive. It makes you mellow and hungry. Millions of people in the world are smoking it as we speak and how many of those are stealing or fighting?
Because they loved the feeling, that's all they used to talk about how high it made them feel, eg. "I was smoke a spliff while joyriding. It feels better to do that high because it takes all the fear away of being caught".
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: briann on October 08, 2009, 05:11:16 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

This is total BS... Pot is not a 'gateway drug' and I have known many who used it while attending university. It also doesn't make you aggressive, it makes you more mellow and less likely to be violent. I used it for almost 20 years and never had I become violent because of pot...

PS: Many more cigarette smokers are more violent than pot smokers..


Yes, Pot makes you melow and lazy.  which is why I cant touch it, since I'm already having issues with fatigue. 

HOWEVER, nearly every study ive seen shows that Pot does MUCH more severe damage to your brain, so you will probably live longer (Or as long) as a regular smoker, but at a major cost to your brain.

Nearly everyone I know who regularly smoked it for a long period of time has problems completing sentences.  Michael Medved decided one day to ONLY take callers who were regular potsmokers to promote marijuana legalization, and EVERY ONE OF THEM either mumbled or spoke really slowly and sounded confused.  This cant be a coincidence, and it went right along with what every other study shows.

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on October 08, 2009, 05:11:27 PM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

A lot of people smoke pot because they think they are going against the law.
If they tax it the people might see it as cigarettes
But pot is much more dangerous than cigarettes as it makes you more aggressive and you are more likely to use heaver drugs. Sources: Life experience. Both my ex-friends and my cousin are now smack heads. They started using pot, then E, then crack and so on. You don't see most cigarette users going on hard drugs.

Irish, crack heads, meth addicts, and herion addicts steal jewelry, money, anything of value and whenever they can, some even rob banks or try to sell their babies on the net.

potheads buy twinkies and potato chips and junk food, then they sit on the couch to veg out and binge on their m&m's. I do not know of one person who smokes pot who has ever stolen anything and they are not crack heads, to the contrary they are golfers, real estate agents, engineers, office managers, etc. Some people that I know personally who smoke, live in homes, pays their bills and live normal lives and they do not allow the pot to bring them down, I think they use it to relax instead of drinking booze.

I do not advocate pot smoking for the record...I am only stating the facts. Now it is true that some people who smoked pot went on to heavier drug use, but their addictions came from using the heavier drugs. Here is one example....meth addicts become hooked on the second try of meth, and their chances of recovery are very slim. Same with herione and crack cocaine...they use it once or twice and become hooked. Pot addicts fall into 2 different categories, one is the stay at home and do nothing type, and the other is the working professional. Neither type of pot smokers are criminals.

I draw the line in saying that anyone who smokes pot should never be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car, driving under the influence of pot can be as deadly as drinking and driving due to the fact pot is a depressant and can affect one's ability to pay attention and react on time.


                                                    Shalom - Dox
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 05:13:23 PM
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b84/rregnier/Smoke/210zwd5.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/HeatherKat23/a-pot-leaf-smoke.gif)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: briann on October 08, 2009, 05:15:45 PM
On a somewhat related note, I know many people who take drugs to mellow themselves out... some take pot, some even take Xanex, and I have seen frigh tening changes in their cognitive abillity, especially people in their 40's and 50's.  Its a very sad story.

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 05:18:28 PM
As I said before, drug effects are subjective... I also know people who are still working professionally and occasionally smoke... Just like everything else in life, moderation is important.

I don't think legalization will cause many problems.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on October 08, 2009, 05:45:19 PM
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b84/rregnier/Smoke/210zwd5.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a3/HeatherKat23/a-pot-leaf-smoke.gif)



 :::D


" wow man .... what's happening to me ? "
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on October 08, 2009, 06:06:44 PM
בס''ד

1. Legalizing drugs does lead to increased drug use. Every European country that has legalized drugs now has a severe drug addiction problem which is much worse than it was when the drug was illegal. Legalization is like giving a stamp of approval to drug use and that greatly increases drug use among young people who have to decide whether to try it or not.

2. Marijuana is definitely a gateway drug for many people. Most heroin, cocaine, crack and meth addicts started with marijuana. The vast majority of recovering addicts will tell you that marijuana started them down the road to self-destruction. I personally met many hardcore junkies who started out smoking joints.

3. Even many people who do not take other drugs but only stay with marijuana become potheads. Potheads are marijuana addicts - yes, marijuana can be addictive. Again, I know quite a few people who ruined their lives with marijuana. They smoke several times a day and feel that they cannot function without it. They are constantly seeking more potent weed to get them high.

4. The fact that cigarettes and booze are also destructive does not justify increasing the destructive effects of marijuana. Because people are addicted to cigarettes and to alcohol, we should make marijuana an even bigger problem?

5. When Rudy Giuliani ordered the New York police to crack down even on the sale of small amounts of marijuana and to crack down on marijuana use, it was one of the factors that led to a dramatic drop in the city's crime rate.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 06:14:48 PM
Is there any study which shows this? I have seen the opposite of what you say. Not that I want to disagree with you but my first-hand observations are completely contrary to what you say.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Serbian Canadian on October 08, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
I think it depends on the person. Chances are that those addicted to crack/cocaine and other hard drugs likely had their start with marijuana. However, there are also a lot of people who are "potheads" or "extreme potheads" who are addicted to marijuana and cannot live a day without smoking but they will not try any other types of drugs.

In High School, I had a very good friend who was incredibly intelligent. He was the best math student perhaps in the entire school. He was also a very good athlete. However, he was very depressed and even suicidal at times because he was without his father. Eventually he tried marijuana and eventually became a pothead. He would skip class in order to go smoke marijuana. He would smoke it 4-5 times a day and never get tired of it. He became completely hooked. I tried everything I could to convince him to stop but he would not listen. In the end, his marks dropped and he barely graduated HS. Since then I've lost complete contact with him. He became very isolated, anti-social and paranoid. I'm pretty sure he tried cocaine, ecstacy and some of the other hard drugs but he was only interested in weed. It was good enough to destroy his life though because it helped him escape his depression.

I don't think marijuana is a gateway drug per se as in it makes you want to try other drugs but different people have different reactions. Someone who has smoked weed for a very long time or since they were young has probably tried a hard drug at least once in their lifetime.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 06:50:45 PM
I don't want to complain about it but I am addicted to Coke... Coca-Cola that is... I know that it is wrong and am working on stopping drinking so much. At this point in time I drink about a 12pack of Coke a day...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 06:53:48 PM
I don't want to complain about it but I am addicted to Coke... Coca-Cola that is... I know that it is wrong and am working on stopping drinking so much. At this point in time I drink about a 12pack of Coke a day...


(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/falderman/head-coke.jpg)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 07:00:48 PM
(http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/18/94/0e7e_1_sbl.JPG)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on October 08, 2009, 07:03:47 PM
I don't want to complain about it but I am addicted to Coke... Coca-Cola that is... I know that it is wrong and am working on stopping drinking so much. At this point in time I drink about a 12pack of Coke a day...



Muman, that is hard on your kidneys. Try drinking water instead of coke, and if you must, you can add sugary apple juice to your water. Each day decrease the amount of apple juice from the water until you get used to the water alone. The only time you should have coke is at the movies with popcorn. That wouldn't hurt your system like drinking a six pack a day. I wish you luck in kicking your soda habit.


                                                      Shalom - Dox
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 08, 2009, 07:04:27 PM
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f118/marker11/cokehead.jpg)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 08, 2009, 07:14:24 PM
I don't want to complain about it but I am addicted to Coke... Coca-Cola that is... I know that it is wrong and am working on stopping drinking so much. At this point in time I drink about a 12pack of Coke a day...



Muman, that is hard on your kidneys. Try drinking water instead of coke, and if you must, you can add sugary apple juice to your water. Each day decrease the amount of apple juice from the water until you get used to the water alone. The only time you should have coke is at the movies with popcorn. That wouldn't hurt your system like drinking a six pack a day. I wish you luck in kicking your soda habit.


                                                      Shalom - Dox

Thank you... I know that I can quit when I want to... Over the High Holiday period last week I went for three days without drinking a coke. I had a headache for the 1st day but by Yom Kippur the headache was gone.

Thanks and I will once again attempt to cut down my coke consumption.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 08, 2009, 07:17:10 PM
בס''ד

1. Legalizing drugs does lead to increased drug use. Every European country that has legalized drugs now has a severe drug addiction problem which is much worse than it was when the drug was illegal. Legalization is like giving a stamp of approval to drug use and that greatly increases drug use among young people who have to decide whether to try it or not.

2. Marijuana is definitely a gateway drug for many people. Most heroin, cocaine, crack and meth addicts started with marijuana. The vast majority of recovering addicts will tell you that marijuana started them down the road to self-destruction. I personally met many hardcore junkies who started out smoking joints.

3. Even many people who do not take other drugs but only stay with marijuana become potheads. Potheads are marijuana addicts - yes, marijuana can be addictive. Again, I know quite a few people who ruined their lives with marijuana. They smoke several times a day and feel that they cannot function without it. They are constantly seeking more potent weed to get them high.

4. The fact that cigarettes and booze are also destructive does not justify increasing the destructive effects of marijuana. Because people are addicted to cigarettes and to alcohol, we should make marijuana an even bigger problem?

5. When Rudy Giuliani ordered the New York police to crack down even on the sale of small amounts of marijuana and to crack down on marijuana use, it was one of the factors that led to a dramatic drop in the city's crime rate.

Chaim, I agree with you. I am not for legalizing dope. However, with the number of horrific travesties of justice taking place in California (and the rest of the nation) as we speak, I cannot be that angered about it.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on October 08, 2009, 07:39:34 PM
I don't want to complain about it but I am addicted to Coke... Coca-Cola that is... I know that it is wrong and am working on stopping drinking so much. At this point in time I drink about a 12pack of Coke a day...



Muman, that is hard on your kidneys. Try drinking water instead of coke, and if you must, you can add sugary apple juice to your water. Each day decrease the amount of apple juice from the water until you get used to the water alone. The only time you should have coke is at the movies with popcorn. That wouldn't hurt your system like drinking a six pack a day. I wish you luck in kicking your soda habit.


                                                      Shalom - Dox

Thank you... I know that I can quit when I want to... Over the High Holiday period last week I went for three days without drinking a coke. I had a headache for the 1st day but by Yom Kippur the headache was gone.

Thanks and I will once again attempt to cut down my coke consumption.


It has been almost one year since I had to go to the hospital...for the last 10 months I drink lots of water and 2 small glasses of cranberry juice each day ( morning and evening. ) My kidneys are great now...no more problems.

I had to go to the hospital often because I never drank water....I hate water but trained myself to drink it.

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: patches on October 08, 2009, 07:50:55 PM
I think alcohol is and always has been much more destructive than pot. Irish Zionist, let me ask you a question. What's a bigger problem in Ireland, alcoholism or potheads running amok?

When people talk about "drugs" they never mention alcohol, but alcohol is a drug too. If alcohol is legal, then pot should be too. My opinion.


Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: FreedomFighter08 on October 08, 2009, 08:33:58 PM
Chaim, I saw my friend today with puffy eyes, and I asked him if he was high. His answer was "how did you know?" This guy is the smartest guy in class and always sticks to his "marijuana does not make people stupid" theory.

But the point is, if you make it illegal, what point does it serve? Fill up our jails with potheads? Our jails should be reserved for criminals, not people who get high, unless they are crack or heroin or meth addicts who are disrupting society.

Not to continue this picture/video meme but:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_qD9uZ8kB8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_qD9uZ8kB8)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Muck DeFuslims on October 09, 2009, 03:16:09 AM
I'm not sure if marijuana should be legalized, but I am sure the use of or possession of small amounts of marijuana should be decriminalized.

The idea of arresting people, trying them in court, and throwing them in jail for smoking a joint or possessing a 1/4 ounce of cannabis is absurd.

Talk about a waste of resources and misplaced priorities.

There is absolutely no doubt that alcoholism and alcoholics have a much more deleterious effect on individuals and society than marijuana use and pot heads ever have or ever could have. Yet as a society we've come to accept bars and taverns on virtually every street corner and being continually bombarded with ads and commercials for beer and booze.

Does this mean marijuana use should be sanctioned or approved ?

Of course not.

We should never encourage the use of drugs of any kind.

But prosecuting and incarcerating people for smoking a joint or possessing a small amount of weed ? C'mon. We've got much bigger problems to deal with.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Cato on October 09, 2009, 03:54:49 AM
I am always astonished by the number of regular contributors to this forum, otherwise calm and sober, who freely admit to drug use whenever the subject is raised. In the UK, marijuana is currently being re-criminalised because of recognition of the damage done by the drug, which is now twenty times stronger than when it was smoked 30 years ago by the crack-heads in government who dreamed up the idea of decriminalising it in the first place. It's strength, however, is irrelevant - of course it's a gateway drug! Anyone who has ever worked in a shop will know the dangers posed by even slightly drugged-up youths, and by an apathetic police force who are half drugged-up themselves with their own free supplies. Anyone who has ever been in a car crash involving a druggie will know the same feeling. In either case, the civil liberties of the druggies are irrelevant.   
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: HiWarp on October 09, 2009, 06:27:38 AM
This is a really bad idea and would cause even more decay. Whats the point of making it legal?

They could tax the hell out of it
So they don't care what could happen to society as long as they tax it?

Congratulations, you have described in one line what the government thinks about most everything.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 09, 2009, 09:46:04 AM
I am always astonished by the number of regular contributors to this forum, otherwise calm and sober, who freely admit to drug use whenever the subject is raised. In the UK, marijuana is currently being re-criminalised because of recognition of the damage done by the drug, which is now twenty times stronger than when it was smoked 30 years ago by the crack-heads in government who dreamed up the idea of decriminalising it in the first place. It's strength, however, is irrelevant - of course it's a gateway drug! Anyone who has ever worked in a shop will know the dangers posed by even slightly drugged-up youths, and by an apathetic police force who are half drugged-up themselves with their own free supplies. Anyone who has ever been in a car crash involving a druggie will know the same feeling. In either case, the civil liberties of the druggies are irrelevant.   

The issue of whether it is a gateway drug is debatable because scientific evidence is otherwise. Many people here have experience that it is not. Nobody is advising anyone to do anything. But Marijuana is definately not a major issue, it should certainly be decriminalized.

There are many 'drugs' which should be illegal and nobody here is suggesting that they all should be legalized or de-criminalized... But there are many good reasons for pot to be decriminalized.

PS: More people die in car crashes due to alchohol than all other drugs combined. By your logic it should be outlawed.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 09, 2009, 09:50:43 AM
I am always astonished by the number of regular contributors to this forum, otherwise calm and sober, who freely admit to drug use whenever the subject is raised. In the UK, marijuana is currently being re-criminalised because of recognition of the damage done by the drug, which is now twenty times stronger than when it was smoked 30 years ago by the crack-heads in government who dreamed up the idea of decriminalising it in the first place. It's strength, however, is irrelevant - of course it's a gateway drug! Anyone who has ever worked in a shop will know the dangers posed by even slightly drugged-up youths, and by an apathetic police force who are half drugged-up themselves with their own free supplies. Anyone who has ever been in a car crash involving a druggie will know the same feeling. In either case, the civil liberties of the druggies are irrelevant.   

The issue of whether it is a gateway drug is debatable because scientific evidence is otherwise. Many people here have experience that it is not. Nobody is advising anyone to do anything. But Marijuana is definately not a major issue, it should certainly be decriminalized.

There are many 'drugs' which should be illegal and nobody here is suggesting that they all should be legalized or de-criminalized... But there are many good reasons for pot to be decriminalized.

PS: More people die in car crashes due to alchohol than all other drugs combined. By your logic it should be outlawed.

Name some then.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 09, 2009, 10:10:52 AM
I am always astonished by the number of regular contributors to this forum, otherwise calm and sober, who freely admit to drug use whenever the subject is raised. In the UK, marijuana is currently being re-criminalised because of recognition of the damage done by the drug, which is now twenty times stronger than when it was smoked 30 years ago by the crack-heads in government who dreamed up the idea of decriminalising it in the first place. It's strength, however, is irrelevant - of course it's a gateway drug! Anyone who has ever worked in a shop will know the dangers posed by even slightly drugged-up youths, and by an apathetic police force who are half drugged-up themselves with their own free supplies. Anyone who has ever been in a car crash involving a druggie will know the same feeling. In either case, the civil liberties of the druggies are irrelevant.   

The issue of whether it is a gateway drug is debatable because scientific evidence is otherwise. Many people here have experience that it is not. Nobody is advising anyone to do anything. But Marijuana is definately not a major issue, it should certainly be decriminalized.

There are many 'drugs' which should be illegal and nobody here is suggesting that they all should be legalized or de-criminalized... But there are many good reasons for pot to be decriminalized.

PS: More people die in car crashes due to alchohol than all other drugs combined. By your logic it should be outlawed.

Name some then.

Off the top of my head here are two:

1) Reduce the overcrowding of jails which currently requires the state to release prisoners before their sentence is completed. Overcrowding is caused by filling jails with minor offenders of drug laws. The amount of money the state can save due to housing 'pot criminals' will be reduced.

2) Taxing the substance and regulating it. This will provide an important revenue stream in CA which is currently issuing IOUs to teachers and other state workers...

There are other benefits also but I will start with these two...

PS: I have said many times that I am not fully for legalization because it may cause erosion of some other social laws. But maybe the gains outweigh the losses...


Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Americanhero1 on October 09, 2009, 10:13:35 AM
I am always astonished by the number of regular contributors to this forum, otherwise calm and sober, who freely admit to drug use whenever the subject is raised. In the UK, marijuana is currently being re-criminalised because of recognition of the damage done by the drug, which is now twenty times stronger than when it was smoked 30 years ago by the crack-heads in government who dreamed up the idea of decriminalising it in the first place. It's strength, however, is irrelevant - of course it's a gateway drug! Anyone who has ever worked in a shop will know the dangers posed by even slightly drugged-up youths, and by an apathetic police force who are half drugged-up themselves with their own free supplies. Anyone who has ever been in a car crash involving a druggie will know the same feeling. In either case, the civil liberties of the druggies are irrelevant.   

The issue of whether it is a gateway drug is debatable because scientific evidence is otherwise. Many people here have experience that it is not. Nobody is advising anyone to do anything. But Marijuana is definately not a major issue, it should certainly be decriminalized.

There are many 'drugs' which should be illegal and nobody here is suggesting that they all should be legalized or de-criminalized... But there are many good reasons for pot to be decriminalized.

PS: More people die in car crashes due to alchohol than all other drugs combined. By your logic it should be outlawed.

Name some then.

Off the top of my head here are two:

1) Reduce the overcrowding of jails which currently requires the state to release prisoners before their sentence is completed. Overcrowding is caused by filling jails with minor offenders of drug laws. The amount of money the state can save due to housing 'pot criminals' will be reduced.

2) Taxing the substance and regulating it. This will provide an important revenue stream in CA which is currently issuing IOUs to teachers and other state workers...

There are other benefits also but I will start with these two...



Don't forget that Taco Bell,Burger King,etc, and snack food companies will have to produce more cause of the munchies
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Rubystars on October 09, 2009, 10:15:28 AM
I think the police should go after people actually harming others rather than harassing someone smoking pot.

I've never used it and never plan to, but I don't think it's so horrible it needs to be illegal.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 09, 2009, 10:21:01 AM
I think the police should go after people actually harming others rather than harassing someone smoking pot.

I've never used it and never plan to, but I don't think it's so horrible it needs to be illegal.
They are also more likely to harm you while their high. And another note, it will increase patients in hospitals as it causes cancer. I heard somewhere it is twice as likely you will get cancer than smoking cigarette's. Also if it becomes legal, it will be cheaper and more readily available, thus increasing death rates.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: The One and Only Mo on October 09, 2009, 10:25:24 AM
I think the police should go after people actually harming others rather than harassing someone smoking pot.

I've never used it and never plan to, but I don't think it's so horrible it needs to be illegal.
They are also more likely to harm you while their high. And another note, it will increase patients in hospitals as it causes cancer. I heard somewhere it is twice as likely you will get cancer than smoking cigarette's. Also if it becomes legal, it will be cheaper and more readily available, thus increasing death rates.


Yes, and assur.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 09, 2009, 10:31:19 AM
I dont know about that claim about cancer. I have seen studies which indicate that THC actually has anti-cancer agents in it... Let me see if I can find those studies:

http://www.nowpublic.com/thc_marijuana_helps_cure_cancer_says_harvard_study

http://www.qmw.ac.uk/news/newsrelease.php?news_id=175

Quote
Researchers investigating the role of cannabis in cancer therapy reveal it has the potential to destroy leukaemia cells, in a paper published in the March 2006 edition of Letters in Drug Design & Discovery.  Led by Dr Wai Man Liu, at Barts and the London, Queen Mary’s School of Medicine and Dentistry, the team has followed up on their findings of 2005 which showed that the main active ingredient in cannabis, tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, has the potential to be used effectively against some forms of cancer.  Dr Liu has since moved to the Institute of Cancer in Sutton where he continues his work into investigating the potential therapeutic benefit of new anti-cancer agents.

http://scienceblogs.com/scientificactivist/2009/04/thc_gives_cancer_cells_the_mun.php
Quote
Through the results of widespread experimentation of the... well... let's say "non-scientific" variety, it's pretty well known that marijuana has the side effect of making the user very hungry. This is one of the many physiological effects of the active ingredient THC (Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol). More relevantly, however, THC and other cannabinoids are actively being investigated for various useful clinical purposes, including the treatment of cancer through the inhibition of tumor growth.

A new study by Salazar et al. in The Journal of Clinical Investigation demonstrates that THC causes tumor cells to begin to degrade themselves from the inside (a process called autophagy, i.e. "self-eating"). Although autophagy has been shown to promote cell survival in some cases and cell death in others, the authors show that in this case it causes cancer cells to undergo programmed cell death (apoptosis). Thus, THC activates a series of events within cancer cells, inhibiting tumor growth.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on October 09, 2009, 10:41:07 AM
Marijuana Side Effects

Marijuana side effects come from smoking or consuming the drug and marijuana side effects influence the mind and body of the user. Marijuana side effects can be as seemingly innocent as an increased appetite to as life threatening as lung cancer. Increased likelihood for accidents is also one of the marijuana side effects. Studies show that 6 to 11 percent of fatal accidents are contributed to by marijuana side effects. Other external marijuana side effects include legal problems, work and financial problems and troubles at home........
http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/marijuana-side-effects.htm


Some of the common side effects of marijuana are:
Trouble remembering things
Sleepiness
Anxiety
Paranoia
Altered time perception

Some people are not affected with these symptoms of marijuana, many are related with the person's health that smoked it, example, people who have a history of mental or health problems should be advised not to smoke or ingest it, unless it was proven that it would not affect his or hers behavior. First time smokers of marijuana should always use a small dose to see how it would effect their body or mind. This is a good way to see if marijuana is OK for you with the minimal side affects and dangers associated with smoking marijuana......
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Marijuana-Side-Effects.html


The Impact on the Mind

Marijuana use reduces learning ability. Research has been piling up of late demonstrating clearly that marijuana limits the capacity to absorb and retain information. A 1995 study of college students discovered that the inability of heavy marijuana users to focus, sustain attention, and organize data persists for as long as 24 hours after their last use of the drug. Earlier research, comparing cognitive abilities of adult marijuana users with non-using adults, found that users fall short on memory as well as math and verbal skills. Although it has yet to be proven conclusively that heavy marijuana use can cause irreversible loss of intellectual capacity, animal studies have shown marijuana-induced structural damage to portions of the brain essential to memory and learning.


The Impact on the Body

Chronic marijuana smokers are prey to chest colds, bronchitis, emphysema, and bronchial asthma. Persistent use will damage lungs and airways and raise the risk of cancer. There is just as much exposure to cancer-causing chemicals from smoking one marijuana joint as smoking five tobacco cigarettes. And there is evidence that marijuana may limit the ability of the immune system to fight infection and disease.....
http://www.acde.org/common/Marijana.htm


Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: The One and Only Mo on October 09, 2009, 10:42:32 AM
Good think I only smoke cigarettes now  :P
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 09, 2009, 10:54:43 AM
IZ,

When I smoked it I had none of those effects...

1) I held a good paying job.

2) I learned new programming languages and operating systems.

3) I drove to work and had no tickets or legal problems.

4) I never had asthma or any other breathing related problems.

Maybe I am just a lucky guy but others I know also did not have these effects. I was concerned about memory loss so I tested myself and discovered that my learning ability was improved when I smoked. I would take an encyclopedia and open it to ten random pages, and look at the first entry of each page... I would read the article and then I would ask someone to quiz me about those topics at a later time. In all cases I retained the topic and could remember verbatim what the article said. To me this indicated that my memory was not being lost due to smoking. To this day some people think I have a photographic memory because I usually remember when and where I found various bits of information.

I am tired of arguing about this.

All I can conclude is that everyone has different reactions to substances and drugs.

PS: Thank Hashem that I survived some of the phases of my life. I live each day in awe of this world and must give credit to the Creator of all things... Every day I say blessings on things in my life because I know I don't deserve the great mercy which has been shown to me in this life...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: The One and Only Mo on October 09, 2009, 10:55:48 AM
U will do well in Tzefat
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 09, 2009, 10:59:12 AM
U will do well in Tzefat

Yes, I hope to find myself there some day soon...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: GoIsraelGo! on October 09, 2009, 11:25:18 AM
IZ,

When I smoked it I had none of those effects...

1) I held a good paying job.

2) I learned new programming languages and operating systems.

3) I drove to work and had no tickets or legal problems.

4) I never had asthma or any other breathing related problems.

Maybe I am just a lucky guy but others I know also did not have these effects. I was concerned about memory loss so I tested myself and discovered that my learning ability was improved when I smoked. I would take an encyclopedia and open it to ten random pages, and look at the first entry of each page... I would read the article and then I would ask someone to quiz me about those topics at a later time. In all cases I retained the topic and could remember verbatim what the article said. To me this indicated that my memory was not being lost due to smoking. To this day some people think I have a photographic memory because I usually remember when and where I found various bits of information.

I am tired of arguing about this.

All I can conclude is that everyone has different reactions to substances and drugs.

PS: Thank Hashem that I survived some of the phases of my life. I live each day in awe of this world and must give credit to the Creator of all things... Every day I say blessings on things in my life because I know I don't deserve the great mercy which has been shown to me in this life...



I agree with you Muman, I am tired of this argument and I am in full agreement with you on this subject, it does effect people differently. I know of people who are very well off mentally and financially and they smoke it on ocassion for relaxing.

                                                  Shalom - Dox
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 15, 2009, 08:12:52 PM
That doesn't mean that it doesn't affect most people, or that the people who seem not to suffer any ill effects are really not experiencing any. Look at lung cancer for instance--weed isn't filtered so it has a lot more tar.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Aces High on October 15, 2009, 08:23:12 PM
There are also people who need medical marijuana for chronic and debilatating medical conditions, and these people are denied the right to use it, and forced to suffer in agony, or take pain pills with harsh side effects.   Anyone politician against the legalization of medical marijuana will never have my support, not ever!   
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 15, 2009, 08:51:56 PM
That doesn't mean that it doesn't affect most people, or that the people who seem not to suffer any ill effects are really not experiencing any. Look at lung cancer for instance--weed isn't filtered so it has a lot more tar.

As I said before there is a lot of confusion in the scientific community about whether or not smoking Marijuana causes cancer... a simple google search comes up with the following:

Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, Study Shows
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html

Marijuana Smoke Linked to Cancer
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20090623/marijuana-smoke-linked-to-cancer

Pot Smoking Not Linked to Lung Cancer
Study Shows No Increased Risk for Even the Heaviest Marijuana Smokers
http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer

Marijuana Use in Supportive Care for Cancer Patients
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Support/marijuana

More Evidence That Marijuana Prevents Cancer
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/142121/more_evidence_that_marijuana_prevents_cancer/

Study Finds No Link Between Marijuana Use and Lung Cancer
http://www.thoracic.org/sections/publications/press-releases/conference/articles/study-finds-no-link-between-marijuana-use-and-lung-cancer.html

Marijuana use linked to increased risk of testicular cancer
http://www.fhcrc.org/about/ne/news/2009/02/09/marijuana.html

As you can see there is much confusion even among the doctors and scientists...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: takebackourtemple on October 15, 2009, 09:42:14 PM
I hope they put it on the ballot and the people vote it down. This would be a huge blow for Marijuana smokers. This of course is assuming the people have enough common sense to vote it down like they did with gay marriages.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 15, 2009, 10:52:22 PM
I hope they put it on the ballot and the people vote it down. This would be a huge blow for Marijuana smokers. This of course is assuming the people have enough common sense to vote it down like they did with gay marriages.

Medical Marijuana was voted on here and it won... And I think, as some others here do, that it is a good thing. As I quoted above there is medical evidence that Marijuana is useful for medical purposes and to deny it to people in pain is wrong. I have a feeling that this is going to pass without any protest from anyone because everyone in California already accepts medical marijuana, and the budget deficit is bad and they need a new source of revenue. There is no comparison between gay marriage and smoking pot... That should be obvious... Our Torah clearly says that Homosexuality is an abomination yet doesn't say anything like that about pot...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Rubystars on October 15, 2009, 10:59:55 PM
I think terminal patients should have access to it even if no one else does at the moment. To deny someone with a terminal illness pain relief is ridiculous. It's got to be safer and less addictive than morphine which should be saved for the later stages of a terminal illness.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: takebackourtemple on October 16, 2009, 05:21:21 AM
   Calling it medical is a tricky way to bias voters. While terminal patients should be allowed to make certain ethical decisions regarding options to extend their lives, the fact that they are dying should not place them above the law. Just because someone is terminal doesn't mean he should murder and steal or commit small infractions such as littering.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Rubystars on October 16, 2009, 08:13:16 AM
   Calling it medical is a tricky way to bias voters. While terminal patients should be allowed to make certain ethical decisions regarding options to extend their lives, the fact that they are dying should not place them above the law. Just because someone is terminal doesn't mean he should murder and steal or commit small infractions such as littering.

It's not about extending life. It's about making the passage to death less painful. Terminal means they're going to die of their disease.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 16, 2009, 09:00:26 AM
Muman, THC is known to ease nausea and improve appetite. That's about it. Its other "curative" powers are mythical, to put it gently.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on October 16, 2009, 10:09:28 AM
Muman, THC is known to ease nausea and improve appetite. That's about it. Its other "curative" powers are mythical, to put it gently.

I posted five or six scientific studies which show that Marijuana has qualities which supress the growth of cancer and you call it a myth... I dont think you looked at the research...

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: ProudAndZionist on October 16, 2009, 10:18:11 AM
Muman, THC is known to ease nausea and improve appetite. That's about it. Its other "curative" powers are mythical, to put it gently.

I posted five or six scientific studies which show that Marijuana has qualities which supress the growth of cancer and you call it a myth... I dont think you looked at the research...



That's right about cancer.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Rubystars on October 16, 2009, 10:36:19 AM
Who is the imitation Bonesfan?
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: ProudAndZionist on October 16, 2009, 10:39:06 AM
Who is the imitation Bonesfan?

I'm the true Bonesfan, that is a cool show!
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: takebackourtemple on October 17, 2009, 10:12:18 PM
   Calling it medical is a tricky way to bias voters. While terminal patients should be allowed to make certain ethical decisions regarding options to extend their lives, the fact that they are dying should not place them above the law. Just because someone is terminal doesn't mean he should murder and steal or commit small infractions such as littering.

It's not about extending life. It's about making the passage to death less painful. Terminal means they're going to die of their disease.

   I was referring to Euthanasia. While murder through mercy killings is prohibited by the torah I can understand how someone in the predicament might have to consider a less severe decision. While I'm against them committing suicide, they might have to make a decision that involves death by a natural cause. A cancer patient might be able to live a lot longer by going through Chemotherapy, but this might also degrade the quality of their remaining life. Someone on life support might have to make the decision whether to pull the tubes or spend the rest of their life on life support. In some cases they might even have a %50 chance of surviving. These are tough decisions regardless of what is wrong or right.
   Deciding to smoke pot or break any other law just because someone is dying is not and argument that I buy into.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Rubystars on October 18, 2009, 02:19:54 AM
If it was legal, they wouldn't be breaking the law. I think reducing nausea, giving some measure of pain relief, and increasing their desire to eat would probably give more quality to their remaining life. I don't see what's wrong in giving them medicines that would make them more comfortable.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: takebackourtemple on October 18, 2009, 08:30:27 AM
If it was legal, they wouldn't be breaking the law. I think reducing nausea, giving some measure of pain relief, and increasing their desire to eat would probably give more quality to their remaining life. I don't see what's wrong in giving them medicines that would make them more comfortable.

   Because Marijuana is not the only or the most effective drug that someone can obtain. It is smoked for social purposes. Personally, I'm not against someone taking drugs in a controlled environment such as a hospital under the correct conditions, but given the nature of Marijuana, people who are not terminal are going to find ways to qualify. Then they are going to start smoking it in clubs and public places where general smoking is illegal. G-d forbid someone asks them to stop, there will be discrimination law suits.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Aces High on October 18, 2009, 09:31:25 AM
If it was legal, they wouldn't be breaking the law. I think reducing nausea, giving some measure of pain relief, and increasing their desire to eat would probably give more quality to their remaining life. I don't see what's wrong in giving them medicines that would make them more comfortable.

   Because Marijuana is not the only or the most effective drug that someone can obtain. It is smoked for social purposes. Personally, I'm not against someone taking drugs in a controlled environment such as a hospital under the correct conditions, but given the nature of Marijuana, people who are not terminal are going to find ways to qualify. Then they are going to start smoking it in clubs and public places where general smoking is illegal. G-d forbid someone asks them to stop, there will be discrimination law suits.

I agree with Ruby Stars.  There is a person in my life with chronic, and a very painful disease that needs medical marijuana to help alleviate the pain. And I don't give a dammm what anybody here says, I mean anybody, about their problems with legalizing medical marijuana.   I don't care about your issues with it!   I get pretty emotional when people try to lay their crap on me, when some someone I love dearly, is in chronic pain. 
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: cjd on October 18, 2009, 10:11:48 AM
If it was legal, they wouldn't be breaking the law. I think reducing nausea, giving some measure of pain relief, and increasing their desire to eat would probably give more quality to their remaining life. I don't see what's wrong in giving them medicines that would make them more comfortable.

   Because Marijuana is not the only or the most effective drug that someone can obtain. It is smoked for social purposes. Personally, I'm not against someone taking drugs in a controlled environment such as a hospital under the correct conditions, but given the nature of Marijuana, people who are not terminal are going to find ways to qualify. Then they are going to start smoking it in clubs and public places where general smoking is illegal. G-d forbid someone asks them to stop, there will be discrimination law suits.

I agree with Ruby Stars.  There is a person in my life with chronic, and a very painful disease that needs medical marijuana to help alleviate the pain. And I don't give a dammm what anybody here says, I mean anybody, about their problems with legalizing medical marijuana.   I don't care about your issues with it!   I get pretty emotional when people try to lay their crap on me, when some someone I love dearly, is in chronic pain. 
Some time back I worked with a person that came down with heart and Kidney failure. If this wasn't enough in the last year of his life he also developed cancer. He found that pot helped him with the pain and also increased his appetite. His children and grand children would buy it from the local dealers because he was not able to get it through legal means. He was lucky enough to have childred and grandchildren willing to do this for him however what is a sick person to do when the people around them are unwilling to do so. Why should this substance not be used as any other prescription drug when prescribed by a doctor if its helpful to the sick and dying.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Aces High on October 18, 2009, 10:44:27 AM
If it was legal, they wouldn't be breaking the law. I think reducing nausea, giving some measure of pain relief, and increasing their desire to eat would probably give more quality to their remaining life. I don't see what's wrong in giving them medicines that would make them more comfortable.

   Because Marijuana is not the only or the most effective drug that someone can obtain. It is smoked for social purposes. Personally, I'm not against someone taking drugs in a controlled environment such as a hospital under the correct conditions, but given the nature of Marijuana, people who are not terminal are going to find ways to qualify. Then they are going to start smoking it in clubs and public places where general smoking is illegal. G-d forbid someone asks them to stop, there will be discrimination law suits.

I agree with Ruby Stars.  There is a person in my life with chronic, and a very painful disease that needs medical marijuana to help alleviate the pain. And I don't give a dammm what anybody here says, I mean anybody, about their problems with legalizing medical marijuana.   I don't care about your issues with it!   I get pretty emotional when people try to lay their crap on me, when some someone I love dearly, is in chronic pain. 
Some time back I worked with a person that came down with heart and Kidney failure. If this wasn't enough in the last year of his life he also developed cancer. He found that pot helped him with the pain and also increased his appetite. His children and grand children would buy it from the local dealers because he was not able to get it through legal means. He was lucky enough to have childred and grandchildren willing to do this for him however what is a sick person to do when the people around them are unwilling to do so. Why should this substance not be used as any other prescription drug when prescribed by a doctor if its helpful to the sick and dying.


Thanks CDJ. 

Anybody interested in learning about the latest in  legislation for the legalization of marijuana across the country, needs to check this website:
http://norml.org/
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Rubystars on October 18, 2009, 11:41:19 AM
I'd do anything for my family if they were in pain like that. I wouldn't even know where to go to get the stuff but I'd find out.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: The One and Only Mo on November 09, 2009, 08:04:16 PM
Tim Lincecum of the San Francisco Giants was arrested for pot.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Iron Greek on November 10, 2009, 05:30:19 AM
I believe this country has alot more to worry about than the fight against marijuana! I support legalization of marijuana! I think they should take all the money they are using to fight pot and aim that into securing our borders and deporting illegal aliens!
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Rubystars on November 10, 2009, 07:06:11 AM
I think regular cigarettes are worse than pot because people tend to smoke more cigarettes and get addicted to them.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: The One and Only Mo on November 10, 2009, 08:47:33 AM
I believe this country has alot more to worry about than the fight against marijuana! I support legalization of marijuana! I think they should take all the money they are using to fight pot and aim that into securing our borders and deporting illegal aliens!

And all the money they spend on other things should probably go to killing muslims :)
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Spiraling Leopard on November 10, 2009, 08:26:44 PM
I think regular cigarettes are worse than pot because people tend to smoke more cigarettes and get addicted to them.

I smoked weed between 13 and 14 and I quit in 1 time. Opposing hipness I stopped smoking and drinking at 15. Stopping to drink was easy, but stopping smoking was real hard. It took about 3/4 year to fully quit.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: The One and Only Mo on November 11, 2009, 08:54:50 AM
I think regular cigarettes are worse than pot because people tend to smoke more cigarettes and get addicted to them.

I smoked weed between 13 and 14 and I quit in 1 time. Opposing hipness I stopped smoking and drinking at 15. Stopping to drink was easy, but stopping smoking was real hard. It took about 3/4 year to fully quit.

I'm 6 days off cigs!!!!!
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Spiraling Leopard on November 11, 2009, 09:55:52 AM
I think regular cigarettes are worse than pot because people tend to smoke more cigarettes and get addicted to them.

I smoked weed between 13 and 14 and I quit in 1 time. Opposing hipness I stopped smoking and drinking at 15. Stopping to drink was easy, but stopping smoking was real hard. It took about 3/4 year to fully quit.

I'm 6 days off cigs!!!!!

Good. 6 more months and you can be sure you're off for good.
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Angry Panther on November 11, 2009, 10:20:13 AM
Marijuana today is very powerful because it is horticulture grown. It is very easy to become addicted to marijuana and their are a lot of people in drug rehab trying to kick their marijuana smoking habit. I find it disturbing that the legalization movement is using the guise of "medical marijuana" and using a lot of very sick and terminally ill people as a path to legalizing marijuana. For example in a documentary I saw, in Mendocino County, California where marijuana is legal for medicinal and recreational use, because of this everybody in this county grows marijuana, they interviewed one family that sold their home and were leaving this county because they were surrounded by people growing marijuana, explosions and fires broke out at their neighbors home because of the equipment they were using to grow marijuana. Children school bags smelled like marijuana and the crime rate increased throughout the county with many break-ins mostly criminals looking to steal marijuana. I include a link to the documentary.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28281668 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/28281668)

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on November 11, 2009, 10:21:58 AM
Marijuana is good medicine, it should be used as a good medicine, and it should be legally obtainable...

PS: I am shocked that this topic has 700+ reads so far while other, more important topics are being ignored... Apparently this is a hot-button topic!
Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Angry Panther on November 11, 2009, 10:25:26 AM
Here is one more link:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6l3tveUc0k4&refer=us (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6l3tveUc0k4&refer=us)

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: muman613 on November 11, 2009, 10:44:24 AM
Here is one more link:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6l3tveUc0k4&refer=us (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6l3tveUc0k4&refer=us)



You know the old saying...

You make Pot illegal and you make a lot more people criminals... These kinds of things would not happen if there was no illegal market for it. The logic which makes sense to me is... Decriminalize pot and then there is no illegal market for it.

Title: Re: Pot legalization gains momentum in California
Post by: Irish Zionist on November 11, 2009, 11:37:55 AM
Here is one more link:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6l3tveUc0k4&refer=us (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6l3tveUc0k4&refer=us)



You know the old saying...

You make Pot illegal and you make a lot more people criminals... These kinds of things would not happen if there was no illegal market for it. The logic which makes sense to me is... Decriminalize pot and then there is no illegal market for it.


Here we go again. As I have stated before in this thread, you make pot legal, then drug dealers have an easier time obtaining it to make it a more dangerous drug. And then you'll have more hippies on the scene saying "well if you made pot legal why not cocaine, heroin, meth etc". This seems to me the only people who want it legalized, is the idiots who use it.