JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jsullivan on May 02, 2007, 06:39:41 AM
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Imerica did write that she "respects" Farakhan and that she supports Obama. So she is part of the problem that we have with a black population that overwhelmingly will support evil black leaders who seek to destroy America and Israel.
Imerica is much more frightening than the housing project, Ebonics-ranting blacks. Because she is intelligent, educated, reasonable-sounding and even likable. And yet she "respects" the ultimate example of evil, Farakhan, who said that he likes being compared to Hitler and who has stated that all whites are devils who must be exterminated. Imerica proves JTF's point that even the nice, likable, smart blacks will side with the evil leaders in their community when the moment of truth comes. That is truly frightening and should be a wake-up call to all decent people.
The ugly language and attacks against Imerica on this site are inappropriate. We should debate her and even criticize her stands. But to bring her 2 year old child into this is uncalled for. Lisa and Allen-T are right. We can and should point out the incredible danger that this represents when a nice, likable and intelligent black woman such as Imerica is willing to support evil Nazi leaders. But the vicious attacks on her and her child make us look terrible and have to stop. That is not the way to confront this dangerous situation.
I actually think that Imerica might ultimately be persuaded to become a black conservative if she is respectfully shown the facts. Maybe, maybe not. But some of these posts on this site look horrendous, and will surely prevent us from ever becoming a mass movement if they continue.
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Imerica did write that she "respects" Farakhan and that she supports Obama. So she is part of the problem that we have with a black population that overwhelmingly will support evil black leaders who seek to destroy America and Israel.
Imerica is much more frightening than the housing project, Ebonics-ranting blacks. Because she is intelligent, educated, reasonable-sounding and even likable. And yet she "respects" the ultimate example of evil, Farakhan, who said that he likes being compared to Hitler and who has stated that all whites are devils who must be exterminated. Imerica proves JTF's point that even the nice, likable, smart blacks will side with the evil leaders in their community when the moment of truth comes. That is truly frightening and should be a wake-up call to all decent people.
The ugly language and attacks against Imerica on this site are inappropriate. We should debate her and even criticize her stands. But to bring her 2 year old child into this is uncalled for. Lisa and Allen-T are right. We can and should point out the incredible danger that this represents when a nice, likable and intelligent black woman such as Imerica is willing to support evil Nazi leaders. But the vicious attacks on her and her child make us look terrible and have to stop. That is not the way to confront this dangerous situation.
I actually think that Imerica might ultimately be persuaded to become a black conservative if she is respectfully shown the facts. Maybe, maybe not. But some of these posts on this site look horrendous, and will surely prevent us from ever becoming a mass movement if they continue.
Jsullivan,
Thank you for this thread. Everything in it. I'd rather be disagreed with than have my family or myself disrespected.
If you've read my responses to the letter about Farrakhan and Sharpton, I call them dispicable men when it comes to their so called civil rights activism. I did say that I respected the fact that Sharpton and Jackson helped blacks recieve jobs...that's on a professional level. On a personal level, I think that they could use some time in a Jewish community to see how Jewish people really are without making snap judgements about their culture. On that front, they are part of the problem. They make it possible for people like you to look at the rest of the black community who have nothing to do with them like we're infected with the plague. This is why I dont' pride myself on NEEDING to be led by anyone outside of my husband and myself. This isn't the first time I've said this and I see now that it most likely won't be the last time. But if either of the 'black leaders' were running for alderman of Cook County in Chicago, I wouldn't vote for them at all. I would vote for Obama though. From what I read in my research of his stances on policy, I like what I see. Until he, too makes me lose favor (like I did with Jesse Jackson and the others).
I want to tell you something Jsullivan, I am a former resident of the housing projects. I lived there from the ages of 4 - 15 and was always seen as somewhat an enigma because I didn't talk exactly like the people who lived in my community. My dad was even talked about because of HIS use of proper English. I was often called, "white girl in a black girl's body", just because I didn't speak ebonics (well). So I've been there and done that. And I learned valuable lessons also from my experience growing up in the projects. My mantra is "life is too short" and it applies to my past because there was a lot of negativity surrounding me. Although I didn't make the decision to move into the projects, I had to make my stay there the best it could be for me. I involved myself in school, I surrounded myself with adults who were educated enough to give good advice, and I surrounded myself with friends who wanted a better life, just like I did. Along with that, I learned not to take life for granted. I feel blessed to have had that experience because it taught me humility. It taught me that not everyone's perfect or makes good decisions. But on the flip side of that, my experience taught me that I'm in control of my future. I didn't follow my mom's footsteps..I didn't have a child at 17, ... she did the best she could as a single mom (after her and my dad's divorce). She clothed us, and fed us and it taught me how to take care of myself and my children. I graduated high school, attended college (even presently), I even married the one person in my life who hasn't once treated me with respect in the 16 years we've known each other and the 13 years we've been married. (Who also grew up in the projects.) Its not where you come from, its where you're going.
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I agree with J sullivan.. Leave the insane Arab Nazis uneducated lunatics call people names...hahah i just did waht i preached we shouldn't do...hehehe...but still...you can disagree with someone and debate them like Kahane would have...very low class what the other posters are doing to imerica.
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I whole-heartedly agree with JSullivan on this issue. Debate, but do not defame.
Imerica has done nothing wrong other than disagree with a number of people here. (And sometimes disagreement is not wrong...it can, at times, be healthy.)
Now, with that said:
Imerica, I have to say I think your support for Obama is misplaced. You sound like a decent person, and indeed in passing, Obama seems like a decent person and many of his stances on the issues seem not too bad as well. Even to me.
However, I know that coming from a Muslim background, as Obama does makes him dangerous to the United States and to Israel.
I know that Obama has supposedly converted to Christianity, BUT...how do you know...indeed how does anyone know...that this was not purely a political move on his part in order to gain Christian, black votes?
Many politicians are not above switching political parties, or even their religious affiliations if they believe doing so will get them elected.
A point here:
During the first Democratic Presidential Debates, Obama was asked about his thoughts on who our best allies are. Israel did not factor in once in his response.
All well and good.
However, when one thinks that Christians everywhere are taught (At least nowadays) the truth of what G-d says in the Bible, that He would "Bless those who bless Israel, and Curse those who curse Israel" you would think that Obama (As a now professing Christian) would consider Israel when thinking of who our allies are.
Instead, he went on a speech about how no one in the world has suffered as much as the Arabs in Gaza.
(Does Obama know that Israel supplies all the Arabs' water, electricity and most of their food? This, despite the fact that the Arabs have a declared intention of wiping out Israel?) If he does not know this, then at the very least it shows his lack of experience as a politician...and would you want someone that inexperienced running the country regardless of whether he was black, white or a woman?
And if he DOES know, and chooses not to think of Israel as a friend...what does that say about his Christianity?
These are things one should consider. I don't know if you are a Christian or not...but if so...the points I raised above are points that ought to give you pause.
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Those who cannot debate, defame.
RABBI MEIR KAHANE Zecher Tzadik Livracha
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Those who cannot debate, defame.
RABBI MEIR KAHANE Zecher Tzadik Livracha
Never a truer word spoken.
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Hello Jimmy and all,
I was going to lock the poll in the question last night, but figured it would be done by either you or Yacov. The tone on this board towards Imerica may be acceptable, but attacks on her children are not. Some posters here need to be reminded that you do not persuade or convince anyone of the merit of our arguments with these types of attacks.
Let's remember the Rabbi Kahane example, and remind ourselves that when Chaim Ben Pesach speaks on his shows, he's speaking with fiery rhetoric to rally his supporters. Ben Pesach would not use the same approach in a different setting. Please watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAotrPLSAxA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAotrPLSAxA) and comport yourselves accordingly. Allow the strength of your argument to persuade people, rather than invective.
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Well I don't agree but I certainly respect Jimmy Sullivan. My problem with being nice to her is that they view this as a sign of weakness. Us caving in is just what she wants. Lets not forget what the people she supports have done to us. "All hymie wants to talk about is Israel." Does that remind you of a nice shvartza young man? What about the black jury aquiting the murdererers of Yankel Rosenbaum and Rabbi meir Kahane. Lets remember we are not dealing with a civilized person and I disagree with Jimmy that she is smart and intelligent. Like Chaim said, anytime a black can read and write, they are immediately considered presidential material. She seems quite stupid to me to be frank with you and I never hear white and Jewish women speaking in such a slow, stupid way. Also don't feel sorry for the child as we didn't go knocking down the door to find it as shvartzas do to our loved ones when they feel the need to rape.
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I love and respect you Jimmy and I hope I have not offended you. I am making fun of the Jew hating shvartza not you.
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"... Those who cannot debate, defame."
*If it bothers anyone that I used that quote I'm sorry but I can't think of any other way to comment to DWI.*
If I were disrespectful to you DWI I would understand your anger toward me. But you're bashing me because I'm not speaking of hating someone? Because I'm not walking through life with the scowl you wake up with and go to sleep at night with every single day? Life is too short to be angry at people I don't know.
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My problem with being nice to her is that they view this as a sign of weakness.
We must not bother with being 'nice' or not 'nice'.
The truth will suffice.
Personal attacks on Imerica make US LOOK WEAK. Personal attacks are the way that CHILDREN 'DEBATE'.
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Well we have already layed out the facts numerous times and this person will not accept the truth. Or maybe she doesn't even speak enough english to understand. We should tell chaim to address her in ebonics and maybe we can settle this once in for all. There seems to be a language barrier.
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Re: "...Life is too short to be angry at people I don't know..."
If your reply is truly what you believe...
-then what could you possibly have against the KKK?...
-or why should anyone in the whole wide world be upset with genocide against blacks in Darfur by Muslim Arab terrorist gangs?
Anyone assuming the "world view" about which this thread takes issue, is someone who at the very least, is both incapable of building, as well as incapable of sustaining, a civilized society.
Those in the Jim Crow South, who opposed "equality" and "civil rights" for negroes, all warned that the negro was incapable of functioning in the modern, civilized world.
They warned that once the negro was turned loose in society, they would destroy each other as well as the United States.
So far, there are no indicators that would prove otherwise.
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Yacov and Jimmy, sorry about the poll. Since I'm the one responsible, would it be possible to post this up top? I hope we can still have free speech.
I apologize for escalating this into a divisive argument. I'm not fully sure who and for what to apologize to though since my actions were both good and bad. I'm not going to bow down like Imus, but out of my free will want to apologize for what I did wrong.
After Erica had posted ugly rants against JTF and an immoral and sexist statement that "all men like women's behinds", I responded to the video of her daughter. Since the video was a response related to the topic of abortion, I joked about how her daughter should have been aborted even though I am generally against abortion. This started the fire. I understand how she would rightfully be insulted by my comment, however, this was in response to all the insulting things that she said. She responded with an ebonics filled message full of obsenities and we exchanged insults. I then went onto the JTF website and saw her arguing with some of my fellow JTFers. I misread some of the posts and it appeared that she was supporting racists such as Sharpton, Jackson, Obama/Osama, and Farrakhan. I took my joke a step further by placing the poll.
A general rule is that you have to expect insults to come back at you when you make them. She started this, but I amplified it. I was wrong to bring her daughter into this so I apologize to her daughter(not her) but was right to fight back against her and I appreciate those who have supported me and left some very intelligent comments on this page. I would like to thank everyone for their insight. I don't mind having her post here, but would like to be able to return the insults. I hope that my actions do not impede future free speech on this forum.
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Well we have already layed out the facts numerous times and this person will not accept the truth. Or maybe she doesn't even speak enough english to understand. We should tell chaim to address her in ebonics and maybe we can settle this once in for all. There seems to be a language barrier.
Come on, dude...so she won't accept the truth...Debate her..don't call Imerica names...
Yes, a troll, a screamer, an activist against Jews and decent people..yes, those you can scream back at with names..Imerica, you just debate and disagree...and you can disagree and debate hard...no point in not trusting anyone who disagrees with your point of view...that's just dumb to me.
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Jimmy, it's supremely hypocritical for her to denounce silly internet attacks on her children when she proudly murdered her youngest and would do it again, and supports other people doing so.
Surely you can agree with that much.
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I apologize for escalating this into a divisive argument. I'm not fully sure who and for what to apologize to though since my actions were both good and bad. I'm not going to bow down like Imus, but out of my free will want to apologize for what I did wrong.
After Erica had posted ugly rants against JTF and an immoral and sexist statement that "all men like women's behinds", I responded to the video of her daughter. Since the video was a response related to the topic of abortion, I joked about how her daughter should have been aborted even though I am generally against abortion. This started the fire. I understand how she would rightfully be insulted by my comment, however, this was in response to all the insulting things that she said. She responded with an ebonics filled message full of obsenities and we exchanged insults. I then went onto the JTF website and saw her arguing with some of my fellow JTFers. I misread some of the posts and it appeared that she was supporting racists such as Sharpton, Jackson, Obama/Osama, and Farrakhan. I took my joke a step further by placing the poll.
A general rule is that you have to expect insults to come back at you when you make them. She started this, but I amplified it. I was wrong to bring her daughter into this so I apologize to her daughter(not her) but was right to fight back against her and I appreciate those who have supported me and left some very intelligent comments on this page. I would like to thank everyone for their insight. I don't mind having her post here, but would like to be able to return the insults. I hope that my actions do not impede future free speech on this forum.
TBOT, you do not need to justify yourself to ME at all. In the context of what was being said what you did was entirely appropriate. Erica is the baby killer, not you. She deserves everything she gets.
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JSullivan is 100% right. Imerica is an asset to this forum. She is very likable and it helpful to understand her point of view as, undoubtedly, it is shared by a significant percentage of black populace. It also helps Imerica to understand Jewish and White Gentiles perspective and our grievances with the majority of blacks.
BTW, Imerica, what Chaim says is not evil, nor it racist - it should be very helpful, for if you listen to him, it would help you elevate your brethren. Unfortunately, majority of blacks are listening to "liberal" racist – who bring blacks down by creating a victimhood complex.
All the best to you and, unfortunately, not so numerous friends that we have in the black community.
Manch
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Come on guys... get real. Chaim even said it on the Ask JTF forum show (almost at the end) exactly where he stands on the black issue. Go listen to it for yourself.
I absolutely detest how some of the posters have behaved. We aren't supposed to be hating people because they are black. SOME JEWS ARE BLACK. Hello?
We can hate the sickness that is popular black culture right now. It would be wrong not to. We can, obviously, hate the "beyond obscene" excrement they call hip-hop and rap. It's absolutely HORRIBLE and EVIL! SURE, there are blacks out there that are sicko lunatics that should be killed for the disgusting and evil things they've done... but why one EARTH does logic completely evade you when it comes to this girl's small child because she's black?? Is this the example you want to use to back up your position? Thank about what you are doing.
I really think that if 10 righteous people could have saved Sodom and Gomorrah, then if only a percent of blacks were righteous gentiles, wouldn't it matter? SKIN COLOR DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD OR EVIL... at JTF, it was never about skin color. It's about groups of people based on the decisions they make and what we can do to change it.
Is this going to help us save Israel or take back America? Let's think about the goal here.
I haven't looked, maybe it's already gone... but I'm seriously thinking about deleting that entire thread with her child on youtube.
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Once again I've got to weigh in and support both JSullivan and Jeffguy on this matter. There is no excuse for rude or nasty behavior on our part whatsoever.
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Look, this whole thing got me pretty heated. And I'm also really surprised at the bickering recently... I thought we were supposed to debate and not be so personal and get so angry. We have this goal we are on and sometimes it's easy to forget that when posting. Let's be more like the sage in here... trying to bring wisdom down in a way G-d would approve with his Torah. I think that says it all and that's what JTF is about.
takebackourtemple, I have loved your posts since you joined the JTF forum. I remember how we would debate people together and it was fun. Chaim loves you and always says this on the shows. I'm not trying to be a cruel to you. The only reason I'm even saying this is because it's you.
I know you got carried away and I felt like I needed to say something to convey my respect for you as an outstanding poster who I happen to disagree with on this topic. My post wasn't just directed to you... I think that's obvious, but I wanted to state it for the record.
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Jimmy, it's supremely hypocritical for her to denounce silly internet attacks on her children when she proudly murdered her youngest and would do it again, and supports other people doing so.
Surely you can agree with that much.
For the record, Chaimfan, I'd never have another abortion. Never. It hurt me too much and still, from time to time hurts me. I don't need you on this site or anywhere else calling me a murderer because I did something that was right for my health and for my older children. You assume a whole lot about me when you haven't even scratched the surface of what makes me, me. As for supporting other people having an abortion...I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. Making that decision though, is a personal one and I don't think I have the right to do what you're doing right now. I would ask a woman who's thinking about it ( if she asked me what I thought of it) to research it before she does it but I wouldn't go as far as you're going, throwing rocks in your own glass house (because you're just as imperfect as the rest of the humans in this world).
With that said, I bid peace to you.
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JSullivan is 100% right. Imerica is an asset to this forum. She is very likable and it helpful to understand her point of view as, undoubtedly, it is shared by a significant percentage of black populace. It also helps Imerica to understand Jewish and White Gentiles perspective and our grievances with the majority of blacks.
BTW, Imerica, what Chaim says is not evil, nor it racist - it should be very helpful, for if you listen to him, it would help you elevate your brethren. Unfortunately, majority of blacks are listening to "liberal" racist – who bring blacks down by creating a victimhood complex.
All the best to you and, unfortunately, not so numerous friends that we have in the black community.
Manch
My problem with Chaim's overall message is that it was almost all about the evil of blacks) and riddled with comments about monkeys swinging from trees, apes, and other things that upset me. He didn't go as far as some other people did here with the name-calling but it stings. His message about black people not needing a leader is agreeable, his bashing and generalizations about black women having 8 children by 8 men isn't. His message about his view of Farrakhan and Jesse and also Al are agreeable, his generalizations about how ALL blacks speak isn't. I guess I'll need super selective hearing in order to filter all of the mean 'stuff' he says out.
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For the record, Chaimfan, I'd never have another abortion. Never. It hurt me too much and still, from time to time hurts me. I don't need you on this site or anywhere else calling me a murderer because I did something that was right for my health and for my older children.
Hello, and good day to you.
Although I oppose the manner in which you've been attacked on this forum, I still believe you dish out more than you're willing to take, Imerica.
I've followed your comments on youtube, and I have observed your vicious attacks on Dr. Alan Keyes PhD, labeling him an "idiot", a "homophobe", "socially inept" etc.. for his defense of traditional marriage, and his pro-life stance. Perhaps you thought no one was looking, but I was, and I will tell you this straight from the heart: When you attack an individual like Alan Keyes -- a man of impeccable moral character, and astounding intellect --with that type of invective, you put yourself on thin ice in my book. And I warn you, if you step over the boundaries here with that type of unwarranted, gratuitous name calling, no one will come to your defense in the future.
Based on this latest revelation perhaps your attacks on Keyes had more to do with your own self-hatred, and guilt over your abortion, than anything that came out of Dr. Keyes mouth.
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For the record, Chaimfan, I'd never have another abortion. Never. It hurt me too much and still, from time to time hurts me. I don't need you on this site or anywhere else calling me a murderer because I did something that was right for my health and for my older children.
Hello, and good day to you.
Although I oppose the manner in which you've been attacked on this forum, I still believe you dish out more than you're willing to take, Imerica.
I've followed your comments on youtube, and I have observed your vicious attacks on Dr. Alan Keyes PhD, labeling him an "idiot", a "homophobe", "socially inept" etc.. for his defense of traditional marriage, and his pro-life stance. Perhaps you thought no one was looking, but I was, and I will tell you this straight from the heart: When you attack an individual like Alan Keyes -- a man of impeccable moral character, and astounding intellect --with that type of invective, you put yourself on thin ice in my book, and I warn you that if you step over the boundaries here with that type of unwarranted, gratuitous name calling, no one will come to your defense in the future.
Based on this latest revelation here perhaps your attacks on Keyes had more to do with your own self-hatred, and guilt over your abortion, then anything that came out of Dr. Keyes mouth.
First of all, I am not worried that you've seen my comments from Youtube. A lot of people have and they've cornered me on them also. But I assure you that I haven't called ANYONE out of their name on this site, besides DownwithIslam who I called "O' Negative One". I even came here and apologized for calling Chaim an idiot on his videos. It didn't make me feel, OR look good at all.
Alan Keyes though (he's not representative of this board) is, IMO a homophobe who kicked his own 19 year old daughter out of their house because she is a lesbian. He took her school funding away, he took away a place for her to lay her head and all because of the fact that he dosen't believe in the fact that homosexuals can have meaningful relationships just like heterosexual couples. He looks at homosexuality as an act that you do and that's what I think homophobes think. As for his defense of traditional marriage, in which he said that 'marriage is irrelevant where procreation is impossible'. Did that mean something different to you? Because to me, he was saying that even a marriage where hetero sexual couples can't concieve, their marriage is not important. He's not for stem cell research, which has the possibility to help change lives drastically. He's against invitro fertilization, as well as sperm donation.
I don't doubt that Alan Keyes is well-versed and extremely intelligence but his view, just like my own isn't popular with everyone. There will be people who disagree with him. And by the way, he's an excellent Roman Catholic man. He's just not a man I'd follow.
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Alan Keyes though (he's not representative of this board) is, IMO a homophobe who kicked his own 19 year old daughter out of their house because she is a lesbian. He took her school funding away, he took away a place for her to lay her head and all because of the fact that he dosen't believe in the fact that homosexuals can have meaningful relationships just like heterosexual couples. He looks at homosexuality as an act that you do and that's what I think homophobes think.
Imerica, I completely disagree with you about homosexuality. For those who believe and fear Gd, it is clearly written that homosexuality is an abomination...there is no exception.
Now, there are homosexuals who are "proud and open" and some who are secretive and modest about their sexuality. Quite frankly, sex and sex acts and all sorts of things like that whether it be a heterosexual or homosexual should be kept in the privacy of one's home. Nobody needs to know how a man likes to do it to a woman or how a man likes to take it up the butt!!!
There in lies the problem with our society: Gay Pride...It's evil...It's is completely inappropriate for any man, woman, or child to know if a man likes it up the butt or likes to give it up the butt...It is really really really disgusting! If a man or woman likes things a certain, the solution is to keep in the privacy of one's home!!! Show some modesty and respect for humanity...
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Alan Keyes though (he's not representative of this board) is, IMO a homophobe who kicked his own 19 year old daughter out of their house because she is a lesbian. He took her school funding away, he took away a place for her to lay her head and all because of the fact that he dosen't believe in the fact that homosexuals can have meaningful relationships just like heterosexual couples. He looks at homosexuality as an act that you do and that's what I think homophobes think.
Imerica, I completely disagree with you about homosexuality. For those who believe and fear Gd, it is clearly written that homosexuality is an abomination...there is no exception.
Now, there are homosexuals who are "proud and open" and some who are secretive and modest about their sexuality. Quite frankly, sex and sex acts and all sorts of things like that whether it be a heterosexual or homosexual should be kept in the privacy of one's home. Nobody needs to know how a man likes to do it to a woman or how a man likes to take it up the butt!!!
There in lies the problem with our society: Gay Pride...It's evil...It's is completely inappropriate for any man, woman, or child to know if a man likes it up the butt or likes to give it up the butt...It is really really really disgusting! If a man or woman likes things a certain, the solution is to keep in the privacy of one's home!!! Show some modesty and respect for humanity...
I actually agree with you, danny. I don't like hearing about other heterosexual people's views on their 'lovemaking', and I don't want to hear what homosexuals like either...thats their personal business. However I don't mind hearing that a homosexual couples or heterosexual couples are happy together. Keep the sex in the bedroom, you know? I mean, I don't even want to know if my grandmother did it (well of course she did because my mom is here. lol) But it makes me shudder just thinking about it.
MODS: I don't know if I'm crossing the line with what I just said, but if I did, I'm sorry.
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Actually Jeffguy, when I listen to Chaim, it seems that me and Chaimfan are the ones who are correct on this issue. We are not hating her cause she is black but because of her Nazism.
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Alan Keyes though (he's not representative of this board) is, IMO a homophobe who kicked his own 19 year old daughter out of their house because she is a lesbian. He took her school funding away, he took away a place for her to lay her head and all because of the fact that he dosen't believe in the fact that homosexuals can have meaningful relationships just like heterosexual couples. He looks at homosexuality as an act that you do and that's what I think homophobes think.
Imerica, I completely disagree with you about homosexuality. For those who believe and fear Gd, it is clearly written that homosexuality is an abomination...there is no exception.
Now, there are homosexuals who are "proud and open" and some who are secretive and modest about their sexuality. Quite frankly, sex and sex acts and all sorts of things like that whether it be a heterosexual or homosexual should be kept in the privacy of one's home. Nobody needs to know how a man likes to do it to a woman or how a man likes to take it up the butt!!!
There in lies the problem with our society: Gay Pride...It's evil...It's is completely inappropriate for any man, woman, or child to know if a man likes it up the butt or likes to give it up the butt...It is really really really disgusting! If a man or woman likes things a certain, the solution is to keep in the privacy of one's home!!! Show some modesty and respect for humanity...
I actually agree with you, danny. I don't like hearing about other heterosexual people's views on their 'lovemaking', and I don't want to hear what homosexuals like either...thats their personal business. However I don't mind hearing that a homosexual couples or heterosexual couples are happy together. Keep the sex in the bedroom, you know? I mean, I don't even want to know if my grandmother did it (well of course she did because my mom is here. lol) But it makes me shudder just thinking about it.
MODS: I don't know if I'm crossing the line with what I just said, but if I did, I'm sorry.
Disclaimer: my views of homosexuality does not go with the views of this forum..they are only my best devised opinion.
As far as couples being happy...they're happy. However, i'm specifically talking about G-d fearing people, if one had a personal private tendency of being a homosexual or being attracted to the same sex while unattracted to the opposite sex, he/she should seek real help and loved ones of that person who the homosexual confides in, are required to be compassionate and be there for that person seeking help.
Imerica, Gd gives us rules to follow day by day. A lot of these rules are in place to help control animal instincts in which humans have such as aggression, sexual, eating, cussing, etc etc etc. What sets apart humans from animals is our ability to follow these rules, even the most difficult, without defaulting or hardly ever defaulting or defaulting at the proper moment, and at the same time have enough rationality to understand why these Divine rules exist. Animals are incapable of this. Real homosexuals (not experimental ones) will have a handicap and a mental/behavioral irregularity and therefore, most likely will have a harder time controlling that desire. A homosexual should be ashamed of that desire and should seek real help no matter how high the mountain is to climb or no matter how hard the lifelong struggle will be. This type of person will win my heart of being righteous or close to it. I think this is the holiest way a homosexual should act.
When one says, "Oh just accept it, he/she is happier that way..blah blah blah"... It's such a sell out!!!! When someone you love does wrong, just like if it were your own child, out love, you are supposed rebuke wrong doing...not be afraid to offend...
This is why I love Chaim ben Pesach. While it may seem to a lay person that he is offending everyone, I know that he speaking a lot of truth..and he speaks truth because it is actually out of love. When Alan Keyes speaks truth, it is out of love, not intolerance. LIberals treat people with CONTEMPT. They do not practice what they preach. They speak of tolerance yet they separate different races with hate crime legislation and affirmative action for example.
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Jeffguy and Jimmy are correct...of course.
How many times do I have to say it, "those who cannot debate, defame."
Are we Kahanists or aren't we? If we are, we should model ourselves after him.
Rabbi Kahane NEVER would resort to personal attacks like this. He was far too INTELLIGENT and WISE to do so.
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Alan Keyes though (he's not representative of this board) is, IMO a homophobe who kicked his own 19 year old daughter out of their house because she is a lesbian. He took her school funding away, he took away a place for her to lay her head and all because of the fact that he dosen't believe in the fact that homosexuals can have meaningful relationships just like heterosexual couples. He looks at homosexuality as an act that you do and that's what I think homophobes think.
Imerica, I completely disagree with you about homosexuality. For those who believe and fear Gd, it is clearly written that homosexuality is an abomination...there is no exception.
Now, there are homosexuals who are "proud and open" and some who are secretive and modest about their sexuality. Quite frankly, sex and sex acts and all sorts of things like that whether it be a heterosexual or homosexual should be kept in the privacy of one's home. Nobody needs to know how a man likes to do it to a woman or how a man likes to take it up the butt!!!
There in lies the problem with our society: Gay Pride...It's evil...It's is completely inappropriate for any man, woman, or child to know if a man likes it up the butt or likes to give it up the butt...It is really really really disgusting! If a man or woman likes things a certain, the solution is to keep in the privacy of one's home!!! Show some modesty and respect for humanity...
I actually agree with you, danny. I don't like hearing about other heterosexual people's views on their 'lovemaking', and I don't want to hear what homosexuals like either...thats their personal business. However I don't mind hearing that a homosexual couples or heterosexual couples are happy together. Keep the sex in the bedroom, you know? I mean, I don't even want to know if my grandmother did it (well of course she did because my mom is here. lol) But it makes me shudder just thinking about it.
MODS: I don't know if I'm crossing the line with what I just said, but if I did, I'm sorry.
Disclaimer: my views of homosexuality does not go with the views of this forum..they are only my best devised opinion.
As far as couples being happy...they're happy. However, i'm specifically talking about G-d fearing people, if one had a personal private tendency of being a homosexual or being attracted to the same sex while unattracted to the opposite sex, he/she should seek real help and loved ones of that person who the homosexual confides in, are required to be compassionate and be there for that person seeking help.
Imerica, Gd gives us rules to follow day by day. A lot of these rules are in place to help control animal instincts in which humans have such as aggression, sexual, eating, cussing, etc etc etc. What sets apart humans from animals is our ability to follow these rules, even the most difficult, without defaulting or hardly ever defaulting or defaulting at the proper moment, and at the same time have enough rationality to understand why these Divine rules exist. Animals are incapable of this. Real homosexuals (not experimental ones) will have a handicap and a mental/behavioral irregularity and therefore, most likely will have a harder time controlling that desire. A homosexual should be ashamed of that desire and should seek real help no matter how high the mountain is to climb or no matter how hard the lifelong struggle will be. This type of person will win my heart of being righteous or close to it. I think this is the holiest way a homosexual should act.
When one says, "Oh just accept it, he/she is happier that way..blah blah blah"... It's such a sell out!!!! When someone you love does wrong, just like if it were your own child, out love, you are supposed rebuke wrong doing...not be afraid to offend...
This is why I love Chaim ben Pesach. While it may seem to a lay person that he is offending everyone, I know that he speaking a lot of truth..and he speaks truth because it is actually out of love. When Alan Keyes speaks truth, it is out of love, not intolerance. LIberals treat people with CONTEMPT. They do not practice what they preach. They speak of tolerance yet they separate different races with hate crime legislation and affirmative action for example.
Well, I can definately say that the last paragraph doesn't describe me at all. lol Affirmative action should be stricken from the books or revamped to say the least. Its way too one-sided now when it didn't initially start out that way.
Well, I can say that although I disagree with you on some points I respect your opinion. In fact I'll fight to the death for you to keep it. :)
On homosexuality, I have to say that although I dont' want to hear about anyone's sexual exploits (hetero or homosexual) I don't judge beyond that point. I think where Alan Keyes and I separate is where disowning your child becomes the first thing you think of when it comes to finding out they're gay. You yourself said that homosexuals are sick and need help, if that's your belief, how does kicking your child out qualify as 'helping' them when they have no money, no housing, no college experience (because Keyes took even the money that his daughter would have used for college).?
I don't want to get into specifics of the homosexual relationship because I don't want to break any descency barriers here..but saying that a homosexual should be ashamed of themselves and what they physically feel is presumptuous. I don't know how hard it would be for them to pretend not to have feelings for people of the same sex but I'm assuming that if they fake being straight, they'll hurt themselves and the one they're fooling.
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Well, I can say that although I disagree with you on some points I respect your opinion. In fact I'll fight to the death for you to keep it. :)
On homosexuality, I have to say that although I dont' want to hear about anyone's sexual exploits (hetero or homosexual) I don't judge beyond that point. I think where Alan Keyes and I separate is where disowning your child becomes the first thing you think of when it comes to finding out they're gay. You yourself said that homosexuals are sick and need help, if that's your belief, how does kicking your child out qualify as 'helping' them when they have no money, no housing, no college experience (because Keyes took even the money that his daughter would have used for college).?
I don't want to get into specifics of the homosexual relationship because I don't want to break any descency barriers here..but saying that a homosexual should be ashamed of themselves and what they physically feel is presumptuous. I don't know how hard it would be for them to pretend not to have feelings for people of the same sex but I'm assuming that if they fake being straight, they'll hurt themselves and the one they're fooling.
FIrst point about Alan Keyes and his daughter: I do not know the nature of their relationship or her openness of being gay. If my child were rebellious and disrespectful, you can sure say I would kick him/her out of the house. Otherwise, G-d fobid I would ever be in this situation, I would show compassion. LIke I said, I don't know the nature of Keyes's relatinoship with his daughter...perhaps she was one of those butch lesbians and outspoken like Rosie O'donnel et al.
Secondly, I never said that any homosexual shoudl lie to oneself about having feelings or urges of homosexuality. Someone who has tendencies like that has to admit to himself/herself first...realize that it is a problem and seek proper help. I'm not suggesting anyone live a lie..i'm suggesting they seek help after he/she realizes he/she has that problem...NOt walk around and prance and be like all proud etc..it's not somethign to be proud of...society should not be accepting homosexuality as normal or deviation from normal..it is ABNORMAL! plain and simple...
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Well, I can say that although I disagree with you on some points I respect your opinion. In fact I'll fight to the death for you to keep it. :)
On homosexuality, I have to say that although I dont' want to hear about anyone's sexual exploits (hetero or homosexual) I don't judge beyond that point. I think where Alan Keyes and I separate is where disowning your child becomes the first thing you think of when it comes to finding out they're gay. You yourself said that homosexuals are sick and need help, if that's your belief, how does kicking your child out qualify as 'helping' them when they have no money, no housing, no college experience (because Keyes took even the money that his daughter would have used for college).?
I don't want to get into specifics of the homosexual relationship because I don't want to break any descency barriers here..but saying that a homosexual should be ashamed of themselves and what they physically feel is presumptuous. I don't know how hard it would be for them to pretend not to have feelings for people of the same sex but I'm assuming that if they fake being straight, they'll hurt themselves and the one they're fooling.
FIrst point about Alan Keyes and his daughter: I do not know the nature of their relationship or her openness of being gay. If my child were rebellious and disrespectful, you can sure say I would kick him/her out of the house. Otherwise, G-d fobid I would ever be in this situation, I would show compassion. LIke I said, I don't know the nature of Keyes's relatinoship with his daughter...perhaps she was one of those butch lesbians and outspoken like Rosie O'donnel et al.
Secondly, I never said that any homosexual shoudl lie to oneself about having feelings or urges of homosexuality. Someone who has tendencies like that has to admit to himself/herself first...realize that it is a problem and seek proper help. I'm not suggesting anyone live a lie..i'm suggesting they seek help after he/she realizes he/she has that problem...NOt walk around and prance and be like all proud etc..it's not somethign to be proud of...society should not be accepting homosexuality as normal or deviation from normal..it is ABNORMAL! plain and simple...
Actually, Keyes' daughter wasn't a bad kid. She didn't "become" gay to upset her father. As a matter of fact she hid it from him for years before coming out to both Keyes and her mother. They decided that upon hearing the news that she should leave at 19 years old. Keyes let go of all financial support for her and just put her out into the world like a dog. I wouldn't have done that to my daughter. Thank G_D though that its a matter of opinion.
Why is it that some people looking from the outside-in only see homosexuality as a physical thing you DO instead of a state of being? There are people who are afraid to come out for fear of themselves being ostracized by the community, or they wind up committing suicide because of the community's rejection of them.
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Actually Jeffguy, when I listen to Chaim, it seems that me and Chaimfan are the ones who are correct on this issue. We are not hating her cause she is black but because of her Nazism.
I think Yakov said this somewhere and it really nails the issue on the head... Chaim can say what he says because he's a giant. He always backs up what he says with facts, statistics, and history. That's what makes him so amazing to listen to. That's the difference.
I certainly agree that any nazism is disgusting. You know where I stand. I, certainly, do not agree with her because she thinks that society deems what's right and wrong and is buying into that whole "they were born that way" ideology. Not everyone has the capacity to face the honest truth, but she's willing to stick around and argue without breaking the forum rules. Her posts give the people on this forum the chance to debate and sharpen up the arguments.
Maybe I should post about homosexual perverts again... shake things up a little.
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Actually, Keyes' daughter wasn't a bad kid. She didn't "become" gay to upset her father. As a matter of fact she hid it from him for years before coming out to both Keyes and her mother. They decided that upon hearing the news that she should leave at 19 years old. Keyes let go of all financial support for her and just put her out into the world like a dog. I wouldn't have done that to my daughter. Thank G_D though that its a matter of opinion.
Why is it that some people looking from the outside-in only see homosexuality as a physical thing you DO instead of a state of being? There are people who are afraid to come out for fear of themselves being ostracized by the community, or they wind up committing suicide because of the community's rejection of them.
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Honestly, I don't know anything about Keyes and his daughter or anythign about his daughter and what they talked about. G-d forbid I would ever be in that situation. If a son or daughter of mine came to me and confided in me about their sexuality, I personally would show compassion and see if I could find help.
I personally have known homosexuals. I can understand that for homosexual men that they find the masculine figure to be attractive as a heterosexual man would find a feminin figure to be attractive. It's actually quite strange because it almost seems that that homosexual man should have been a woman. With that being said, some people are homosexual because they were born that way..however...i think that a vast majority became that way due to nurture and not nature (such as sexual molestation at a young age). I mean if you ever watch dateline, it is unbelievable how many child sexual predators are out there! And normal lay people. It remains to be seen.
I agree with you that you can't just throw people away in the garbage...you need to be compassionate towards those who fear Gd but have tendencies which are against Gd..and help them and guide them etc. However, in our society, homosexuality is glorified...and that is very evil. that should be frowned upon and rebuked.
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And do you know what? There isn't a single psychiatrist in the whole of America or Europe who would 'help' someone overcome their homosexuality. On the contrary if you went to them for help they would break you down emotionally and encourage you to indulge your perversion. So the gentile has one option left - go to a church and get some freak shoving Jesus BS down your throat. I guess maybe this is one of the reasons why white gentiles out of desperation turn to Islam. No one else is offering real solutions or meaningful explanations to life any more. Homosexuality isn't just an abomination, it is hollow, destructive, horrific and empty compared to loving and holding a woman in your arms.
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How about the following situation:
Your son comes home and announces that he's having sex change surgery because he's always been a woman inside.
Then, he announces that he's doing so, because he's really a lesbian as well as a woman, and wants to have only lesbian sex.
Still think this mental state is "merely a state of being"?
Or...did you give birth to a defective mutant?
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Come on... homosexuality is a CHOICE. Let me say that again... it's a CHOICE.
CHOICE.
How do I know? Because it wouldn't even matter if a person was born gay - which they are not - because it's STILL a choice. People act like someone came up and put gay handcuffs on them and now they can't help themselves. They just have to do what they feel - and where does doing what you feel all the time get you?
So let me ask you... if you were "born" a pedophile... I mean... your DNA just was just attracted to young children, G-d forbid... does that give you ANY RIGHT AT ALL to act out on that? You don't think that some people were "born" sexually attracted to their brother, sister, mother, or father? So now it's right?? Does that mean you act out? Or does that mean that you control yourself? GIVE ME A BREAK. Seriously... how can anyone honestly say that they were just born liking that "sort of thing" that can't produce children and never has? It wrong from physics, biology, chemistry, evolution... what happened? So there weren't any gay ancestors, where are those gay genes coming from? I guess that one doesn't lend itself to "survival of the fittest".
Let me word this, again, in another way... so what's your take on bestiality? Hey... some people were just born perverted and like animals, right? So tell me, then... how come animals don't ever have anal relations? How come you never see a monkey or a chicken try doing that? Only humans do that... and what would be the difference? We have the ability to make choices and they don't. We can have a fetish that they aren't capable of possessing. It's not natural. How could it be?
An animal is just an animal. If it's hungry, it eats. If it's tired, it sleeps. They don't have the capacity that we have. So what... we just throw our hands in the air and say to ourselves "no... really... if a child doesn't have both the masculine and the feminine growing up, it's good for them. That whole thing about having a family and teaching them is just an optional thing and G-d was just playing when he said to be fruitful and multiply." G-d forbid! That's what these people think.
They don't care about what it says in the black and white. They don't care about G-d or the Bible. They don't care about logic or what's best for civilized society... the rules don't apply to them. They care only about themselves and what THEY want. Look. They were born that way. It's ridiculous and it's an EXCUSE!
Do you think these people feel good about themselves? Of course not. Now why is that? Maybe it's because the ONLY (and I mean ONLY) way to feel good about yourself is to do right, and have self control, and overcome your obstacles that Hashem, blessed is our Creator, gave to us in order to overcome. And WHY would G-d do this?
Simple.
Because our souls have a chance to know G-d even deeper... and that's because we have free will. Only G-d and humans have free will. The challenge of life is to be as close to the Creator as possible and it's the ONLY thing that REALLY feels good. The other perversions are just a lame excuse. The whole choice thing is an excuse... a LIE... a pile of excrement created by the left in order to condone perverted sickos. They're not proud (no matter what they say) to be gay or they wouldn't be so defensive. They aren't proud! You think they are proud? Why wouldn't they be proud? Because deep down they KNOW that it's WRONG and SICK.
When you do right, you don't care if people disagree with you... you KNOW you are doing right and you respect yourself. People at JTF know what that's like.
What if you were born liking murder? How about if you are born a sexual predator or a stalker? How about if someone is born an abuser? Or an alcoholic? Does that mean it's ok? Is that honest?
G-d was right and, in His infinite wisdom, gave us free will and some instructions to live by (that just happen to make perfect sense).
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Come on... homosexuality is a CHOICE. Let me say that again... it's a CHOICE.
CHOICE.
How do I know? Because it wouldn't even matter if a person was born gay - which they are not - because it's STILL a choice. People act like someone came up and put gay handcuffs on them and now they can't help themselves. They just have to do what they feel - and where does doing what you feel all the time get you?
So let me ask you... if you were "born" a pedophile... I mean... your DNA just was just attracted to young children, G-d forbid... does that give you ANY RIGHT AT ALL to act out on that? You don't think that some people were "born" sexually attracted to their brother, sister, mother, or father? So now it's right?? Does that mean you act out? Or does that mean that you control yourself? GIVE ME A BREAK. Seriously... how can anyone honestly say that they were just born liking that "sort of thing" that can't produce children and never has? It wrong from physics, biology, chemistry, evolution... what happened? So there weren't any gay ancestors, where are those gay genes coming from? I guess that one doesn't lend itself to "survival of the fittest".
Let me word this, again, in another way... so what's your take on bestiality? Hey... some people were just born perverted and like animals, right? So tell me, then... how come animals don't ever have anal relations? How come you never see a monkey or a chicken try doing that? Only humans do that... and what would be the difference? We have the ability to make choices and they don't. We can have a fetish that they aren't capable of possessing. It's not natural. How could it be?
An animal is just an animal. If it's hungry, it eats. If it's tired, it sleeps. They don't have the capacity that we have. So what... we just throw our hands in the air and say to ourselves "no... really... if a child doesn't have both the masculine and the feminine growing up, it's good for them. That whole thing about having a family and teaching them is just an optional thing and G-d was just playing when he said to be fruitful and multiply." G-d forbid! That's what these people think.
They don't care about what it says in the black and white. They don't care about G-d or the Bible. They don't care about logic or what's best for civilized society... the rules don't apply to them. They care only about themselves and what THEY want. Look. They were born that way. It's ridiculous and it's an EXCUSE!
Do you think these people feel good about themselves? Of course not. Now why is that? Maybe it's because the ONLY (and I mean ONLY) way to feel good about yourself is to do right, and have self control, and overcome your obstacles that Hashem, blessed is our Creator, gave to us in order to overcome. And WHY would G-d do this?
Simple.
Because our souls have a chance to know G-d even deeper... and that's because we have free will. Only G-d and humans have free will. The challenge of life is to be as close to the Creator as possible and it's the ONLY thing that REALLY feels good. The other perversions are just a lame excuse. The whole choice thing is an excuse... a LIE... a pile of excrement created by the left in order to condone perverted sickos. They're not proud (no matter what they say) to be gay or they wouldn't be so defensive. They aren't proud! You think they are proud? Why wouldn't they be proud? Because deep down they KNOW that it's WRONG and SICK.
When you do right, you don't care if people disagree with you... you KNOW you are doing right and you respect yourself. People at JTF know what that's like.
What if you were born liking murder? How about if you are born a sexual predator or a stalker? How about if someone is born an abuser? Or an alcoholic? Does that mean it's ok? Is that honest?
G-d was right and, in His infinite wisdom, gave us free will and some instructions to live by (that just happen to make perfect sense).
I believe homosexuality is an addiction no less than one to drugs, alcohol, food, and sex. You can never be 'cured' of such things, but through self-discipline and choice, you can choose to live a healthy life.
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IMERICA,
I agree with your observations and fair criticism of Chaim. I share your point of view. Chaim, himself admitted that most, or a large % of JTF supporters disagree with the manner with which he criticizes blacks.
Now, you can disagree with him - JTF is not a cult and still support his message which is to celebrate righteousness and hating evil in any person, regardless of the color of their skin. There is quite a bit of black Jews, as you know, and I am telling you, Chaim loves them as their own brothers and sisters.
I only wish he can stay away from disparagingly comparing EVIL blacks to monkeys, apes etc. To me it is abhorrent. But, he also does it to self-hating Jewish swine and I do not find this offensive, in fact I support it because I despise self-hating kikes much more than evil blacks.
But again, I agree with your comments - Chaim disparaging racial remarks, while directed to evil blacks, of which your community have a disproportinonate %, dilute and weaken JTF main message and are a major impediment to growth of this movement, IMO. I think that Chaim and others, should still criticize the evil, primitive black culture and evil black "leaders" without racial epithets.
All the best to you and your family!
JSullivan is 100% right. Imerica is an asset to this forum. She is very likable and it helpful to understand her point of view as, undoubtedly, it is shared by a significant percentage of black populace. It also helps Imerica to understand Jewish and White Gentiles perspective and our grievances with the majority of blacks.
BTW, Imerica, what Chaim says is not evil, nor it racist - it should be very helpful, for if you listen to him, it would help you elevate your brethren. Unfortunately, majority of blacks are listening to "liberal" racist – who bring blacks down by creating a victimhood complex.
All the best to you and, unfortunately, not so numerous friends that we have in the black community.
Manch
My problem with Chaim's overall message is that it was almost all about the evil of blacks) and riddled with comments about monkeys swinging from trees, apes, and other things that upset me. He didn't go as far as some other people did here with the name-calling but it stings. His message about black people not needing a leader is agreeable, his bashing and generalizations about black women having 8 children by 8 men isn't. His message about his view of Farrakhan and Jesse and also Al are agreeable, his generalizations about how ALL blacks speak isn't. I guess I'll need super selective hearing in order to filter all of the mean 'stuff' he says out.
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How about the following situation:
Your son comes home and announces that he's having sex change surgery because he's always been a woman inside.
Then, he announces that he's doing so, because he's really a lesbian as well as a woman, and wants to have only lesbian sex.
Still think this mental state is "merely a state of being"?
Or...did you give birth to a defective mutant?
Sounds like you are describing Mrs. Garrison on South Park..hahahaha
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Sounds like you are describing Mrs. Garrison on South Park..hahahaha
LOL!
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How about the following situation:
Your son comes home and announces that he's having sex change surgery because he's always been a woman inside.
Then, he announces that he's doing so, because he's really a lesbian as well as a woman, and wants to have only lesbian sex.
Still think this mental state is "merely a state of being"?
Or...did you give birth to a defective mutant?
That confuses me because that would mean that he would want to only be intimate with women AS a woman...but since he's male that would make him heteroexual. So yes, that's where my eyes would cross and I'd tell him, "Look, I know this great therapist...." If he persisted then I wouldn't stop him, however if he was a minor I'd let him know that he'd have to wait to get that sex change until after he's in college, and can work on his own to get the sex change. *I'd still be a little messed up, even if this happened with my own daughters*.
What a great, thought-provoking question.
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How about the following situation:
Your son comes home and announces that he's having sex change surgery because he's always been a woman inside.
Then, he announces that he's doing so, because he's really a lesbian as well as a woman, and wants to have only lesbian sex.
Still think this mental state is "merely a state of being"?
Or...did you give birth to a defective mutant?
IF this were to happen to me, the only thought that woudl cross my mind is that he's a skhizoidphrenic and needs a psychiatrist...I"m not a psychiatrist...so i would refer him to a doctor who knows one...and find the best one..
That confuses me because that would mean that he would want to only be intimate with women AS a woman...but since he's male that would make him heteroexual. So yes, that's where my eyes would cross and I'd tell him, "Look, I know this great therapist...." If he persisted then I wouldn't stop him, however if he was a minor I'd let him know that he'd have to wait to get that sex change until after he's in college, and can work on his own to get the sex change. *I'd still be a little messed up, even if this happened with my own daughters*.
What a great, thought-provoking question.
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Manch I disagree with you but in a respectful way. The fact is you cannot argue with anything Chaim says factually. What is wrong with him comparing them to apes. That seems to kind for me. You are right that not all blacks are like this but clearly the majority are murderous and evil and their 95% support of the two shvartza jerks supports this. I actually am upset that Chaim is toning down his critiszm of them and I believe it is unnecessary as the jew who will be turned away form us because of this is obviously concerned about shvartzas more than his own people. Again the fact that there are a few good ones in any group doesn't justify us showing any sympathy towards them. Most blacks are illegitimate garbage and I don't believe they justify the watering down of the JTF message.
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Manch I disagree with you but in a respectful way. The fact is you cannot argue with anything Chaim says factually. What is wrong with him comparing them to apes. That seems to kind for me. You are right that not all blacks are like this but clearly the majority are murderous and evil and their 95% support of the two shvartza jerks supports this. I actually am upset that Chaim is toning down his critiszm of them and I believe it is unnecessary as the jew who will be turned away form us because of this is obviously concerned about shvartzas more than his own people. Again the fact that there are a few good ones in any group doesn't justify us showing any sympathy towards them. Most blacks are illegitimate garbage and I don't believe they justify the watering down of the JTF message.
DownwithIslam, i disagree with you. I was one Jew who was turned off about 10 years ago when Chaim was up in arms against blacks. It was becaise I felt like I was adopting an extreme point of view without any validity... However, I'm back with jtf and I'm still here and one of the reasons is because Chaim clarified his stance and toned down to an acceptable level. And it's not because I care more about blacks than I do with fellow brethren Jews. It is because I cannot get my points across to normal lay people with radical and extreme arguements (nor can Chaim or jtf if it is going to turn into a mass movement in the memory of Rabbi Meir Kahane). Furthermore, I have no desire to judge someone by the color of their skin, and I fully understand that Chaim doesn't either. His stance can be justified and I have no intentions in changing his mind. He's gone through enough to be pissed off about them.
Maybe the difference between you and Chaim with me is that the both of you grew up in close proximity with the very excrement you guys complain about; I was lucky enough not to be exposed to any of them. Secondly after 9/11, i realized that so-called African Americans weren't the problem...it was Islam and anyone who was politically correct about Islam irregardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc. The enemy that shoudl be fought are those who act evil and harbor evil irregardless of race.
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Dannycookies, what city do you live in? Also I am not judging blacks by their skin color but rather by their actions. As I stated blacks all voted for jackson so that means I have the right to hate them all. Just because a teeny minority are good doesn't mean we should allow the crap to continue. Also it pains me that Chaim is toning down as I loved those classic shvartza stories. Most people that are kahanists are perfectly fine with the shvartza jokes.
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Dannycookies, what city do you live in? Also I am not judging blacks by their skin color but rather by their actions. As I stated blacks all voted for jackson so that means I have the right to hate them all. Just because a teeny minority are good doesn't mean we should allow the crap to continue. Also it pains me that Chaim is toning down as I loved those classic shvartza stories. Most people that are kahanists are perfectly fine with the shvartza jokes.
Actually I have lived in NYC for the last 3-4 years..but before in a suburb in NJ in which the school system i belonged to was waspy and maybe had one or two token black people.
Dont' get me wrong. I love shvartza jokes..I make them all the time! I hate the same filth everybody else hates, I hate affirmative action in giving random blacks better treatment, I dislike "hate crime" laws etc...I'm right there with you, buddy. It's all in the presentation which one makes. Going on a picket line yelling and screaming will not get through to an intellectual. Look at the power the PLO got by recruiting so-called moderates who were apparantly a little smarter than their previous leaders (but still not smarter than most of us!)
Now you choose to hate all shvartzas beause a sickingly majority of them voted for Jessie Hymietown Jackson in 1984. If you feel being extreme to all blacks you meet to be a way of legitimizing jtf, that's fine. For me, I prefer not to do it that way. The way you like to do it is the rough and tough way, which is not a bad thing sometimes. However, I prefer to do it like the way Rabbi Meir Kahane spoke to his enemies (although I'm lousy at doing it!). You know, like when people would jeer at him and he would make them feel stupid by saying something witty to shut them up.
Look at Alan Keyes also..Remember his shows on MSNBC? I love that guy! He's a smart wonderful human being and he captivates me whenever he talks. So did Meir Kahane. So does Chaim ben Pesach, but it used to be more with entertainment value than now..now it is a combination of education and entertainment. Anyway, that's my point of view.
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Dannycookies, what city do you live in? Also I am not judging blacks by their skin color but rather by their actions. As I stated blacks all voted for jackson so that means I have the right to hate them all. Just because a teeny minority are good doesn't mean we should allow the crap to continue. Also it pains me that Chaim is toning down as I loved those classic shvartza stories. Most people that are kahanists are perfectly fine with the shvartza jokes.
Actually I have lived in NYC for the last 3-4 years..but before in a suburb in NJ in which the school system i belonged to was waspy and maybe had one or two token black people.
Dont' get me wrong. I love shvartza jokes..I make them all the time! I hate the same filth everybody else hates, I hate affirmative action in giving random blacks better treatment, I dislike "hate crime" laws etc...I'm right there with you, buddy. It's all in the presentation which one makes. Going on a picket line yelling and screaming will not get through to an intellectual. Look at the power the PLO got by recruiting so-called moderates who were apparantly a little smarter than their previous leaders (but still not smarter than most of us!)
Now you choose to hate all shvartzas beause a sickingly majority of them voted for Jessie Hymietown Jackson in 1984. If you feel being extreme to all blacks you meet to be a way of legitimizing jtf, that's fine. For me, I prefer not to do it that way. The way you like to do it is the rough and tough way, which is not a bad thing sometimes. However, I prefer to do it like the way Rabbi Meir Kahane spoke to his enemies (although I'm lousy at doing it!). You know, like when people would jeer at him and he would make them feel stupid by saying something witty to shut them up.
Look at Alan Keyes also..Remember his shows on MSNBC? I love that guy! He's a smart wonderful human being and he captivates me whenever he talks. So did Meir Kahane. So does Chaim ben Pesach, but it used to be more with entertainment value than now..now it is a combination of education and entertainment. Anyway, that's my point of view.
Anyone that has not spent time around black folks really doesn't know what the pitfalls are when interacting with them. Chaim's approach on them is about the best I have ever heard. As Chaim says it not the black skin that makes Blacks bad its the behavior that most Blacks display. I have had a good amount of exposure to black folks over the years and I have found this is very true. I have meet quite a few nice Black folks however the vast majority of that race are evil and no amount of education and social grooming can ever change that. Good Blacks themselves are frightened to be around the more evil of their own kind.
Chaim shouldn't change a thing he should say just what he has always said because he tells it as it is. If what he says is not the case let the people offended by it prove him wrong. I for one being a long time listener of JTF think they would have a tough time based on the facts.
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Downwithislam,
I respectfully disagree. I think Chaim should still critisize all the things you mentioned as far as blacks but without the racial slur - this destracts and deligitimizes us. I, for one, encounter plently of good and pleasant black folks - I am in California. Not all blacks are enemies of Jews and a great number of them are very nice, simple people. I have met only three arabs, in my whole live, who were human-like. The rest of them were an utter arab garbage. Mind you, I am not arguing with your and Chaim's points that a majority of blacks are lazy imbeciles, my point is to stay away from the racial slur. I also do not equate balcks a& arabs, finding the latter much more evil.
I started listening to JTF in 2005, when the message was toned down. I am listening the atchives right now (2001) - most of the shows was dedicated to the "black problem" and there was no way I would have have kept listeninng then.
Manch I disagree with you but in a respectful way. The fact is you cannot argue with anything Chaim says factually. What is wrong with him comparing them to apes. That seems to kind for me. You are right that not all blacks are like this but clearly the majority are murderous and evil and their 95% support of the two shvartza jerks supports this. I actually am upset that Chaim is toning down his critiszm of them and I believe it is unnecessary as the jew who will be turned away form us because of this is obviously concerned about shvartzas more than his own people. Again the fact that there are a few good ones in any group doesn't justify us showing any sympathy towards them. Most blacks are illegitimate garbage and I don't believe they justify the watering down of the JTF message.
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Don't worry Manch. The [censored] don't need your lovely hand-wringing to console them. They've got your kids' jobs because of affirmative action and your choicest prettiest women are consoling their beloved baboons in the bedroom as we speak. The monkeys are laughing in your face Manch. Be a man and realize you are wrong.
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Dannycookies, what city do you live in? Also I am not judging blacks by their skin color but rather by their actions. As I stated blacks all voted for jackson so that means I have the right to hate them all. Just because a teeny minority are good doesn't mean we should allow the crap to continue. Also it pains me that Chaim is toning down as I loved those classic shvartza stories. Most people that are kahanists are perfectly fine with the shvartza jokes.
Actually I have lived in NYC for the last 3-4 years..but before in a suburb in NJ in which the school system i belonged to was waspy and maybe had one or two token black people.
Dont' get me wrong. I love shvartza jokes..I make them all the time! I hate the same filth everybody else hates, I hate affirmative action in giving random blacks better treatment, I dislike "hate crime" laws etc...I'm right there with you, buddy. It's all in the presentation which one makes. Going on a picket line yelling and screaming will not get through to an intellectual. Look at the power the PLO got by recruiting so-called moderates who were apparantly a little smarter than their previous leaders (but still not smarter than most of us!)
Now you choose to hate all shvartzas beause a sickingly majority of them voted for Jessie Hymietown Jackson in 1984. If you feel being extreme to all blacks you meet to be a way of legitimizing jtf, that's fine. For me, I prefer not to do it that way. The way you like to do it is the rough and tough way, which is not a bad thing sometimes. However, I prefer to do it like the way Rabbi Meir Kahane spoke to his enemies (although I'm lousy at doing it!). You know, like when people would jeer at him and he would make them feel stupid by saying something witty to shut them up.
Look at Alan Keyes also..Remember his shows on MSNBC? I love that guy! He's a smart wonderful human being and he captivates me whenever he talks. So did Meir Kahane. So does Chaim ben Pesach, but it used to be more with entertainment value than now..now it is a combination of education and entertainment. Anyway, that's my point of view.
Anyone that has not spent time around black folks really doesn't know what the pitfalls are when interacting with them. Chaim's approach on them is about the best I have ever heard. As Chaim says it not the black skin that makes Blacks bad its the behavior that most Blacks display. I have had a good amount of exposure to black folks over the years and I have found this is very true. I have meet quite a few nice Black folks however the vast majority of that race are evil and no amount of education and social grooming can ever change that. Good Blacks themselves are frightened to be around the more evil of their own kind.
Chaim shouldn't change a thing he should say just what he has always said because he tells it as it is. If what he says is not the case let the people offended by it prove him wrong. I for one being a long time listener of JTF think they would have a tough time based on the facts.
cjd, i just want you to know that I agree with you. The only thing I would suggest for Chaim to do every once in awhile (and he does do it) is to add a disclaimer that it is the evil culture which he hates and not the color of one's skin and to hate someone based solely on genetics is a grave sin!
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Cjd I agree with you. I don't think manch has spent enough time with these monkeys. I think the best shows were the ones in which Chaim attacked the shvartzas strongly. We need to get back to that.
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Cjd I agree with you. I don't think manch has spent enough time with these monkeys. I think the best shows were the ones in which Chaim attacked the shvartzas strongly. We need to get back to that.
Tell you what...Chaim can attack the shvartzas strongly as long as he slips in a disclaimer here or there that it is evil behavior and that it is a sin to hate solely because of genetics and race...and that jtf cherishes education and morality. :)
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I have been listening to Chaim for years now and to be honest I have always felt that whatever he said about Black folks was due to the fact of how they acted and not just because they were Black. It bothers me when people say that Chaim needs to tone it down Chaim should be Chaim he is doing nothing wrong and needs to tone nothing down. Its good however that from time to time he reminds people that its Blacks folks behavior that is the problem not the fact they are black. He has been doing this more often as of late because JTF's message is going more places now than ever before. I think he wants new listeners to understand why he says the things he does. I am glad that I am not the only one here on the forum that thinks Chaim should be himself. I find the people who are the most tolerant of evil Black folks are White people who have very limited contact with Blacks. They always cry about how racist other White folks are against Black society. I wish there was I way I could expose people like that to the evil Blacks that Chaim talks about they would change their tune once and for all.
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I also don't think it will helpful if Chaim tries to appeal to a broader audience. The people who will be loyal to this movement are never the ones who complain about shvartzas getting bad treatment. By toning it down we will turn way real kahanists and the people we attract won't be of the same high quality. I don't even know why there is such a strong taboo on this forum about using the word [censored]. There is nothing wrong with using a derogatory term against such a violent and destructive people like the schvartzas. I can much more easily accept a rule about not using derogatory terms against rabbis who we disagree with. Even though I disagree with that, I can understand the reasoning behind making such a rule. I especially enjoy when Chaim makes those monkey noises to imitate shvartzas.
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And I am happy that the colored "girl" has not been coming on here as much in an attempt to fool us.
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Dannycookies I agree with you there. I believe Chaim has always done that though.