JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on June 20, 2010, 06:46:39 PM
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I find it so hard to believe that a state like Israel could really have a Supreme Court which is wicked, and is staffed by judges who are the most vile examples of human beings on the planet. The witch Dorito Benisch is a sickening specimen... She would have me locked up in prison for simply expressing my less than wonderful opinion of the current bench... I just learned last night that the Supreme Court is nothing like the court here in America... Our court is supposed to reflect the will of the populace while the Supreme Court in Israel is populated by a cabal of left-wing flunkies who appoint themselves to the bench. When will this wicked bunch of charlatans be removed from their positions of power? How do the people allow these witches to create sodomish laws?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138167
Supreme Court Critics Under Investigation
Tammuz 8, 5770, 20 June 10 09:43
by Maayana Miskin
(Israelnationalnews.com) Members of Knesset, rabbis and journalists who criticized the Supreme Court over the Emanuel affair will face investigation this week, and may even face criminal charges. Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein will look into concerns – voiced by Supreme Court President Dorit Beinisch – that critics may have been in violation of laws against expressing contempt of public servants.
Beinisch said criticism of the Supreme Court, and particularly Judge Edmond Levy, had reached the point of “grave statements that must be uprooted at the source.” Under Israeli law, it is illegal to denigrate a sitting judge or a court in a manner that could lead to disrespect of the legal system.
MKs Uri Maklev and Moshe Gafni of United Torah Judaism and David Azoulai of Shas have been mentioned as possible suspects in the investigation.
Maklev said Sunday that he is not concerned. “Police investigations and arrests do not worry us. We have never shared values with the court, and we are not afraid... There was no harm done to the judges' honor, rather, the judges dealt a blow to Judaism's honor,” he said.
Not only did he not express concern, but Maklev continued to criticize the court's behavior. “This is the first time since the communist regime in the Soviet Union that parents have been sent to prison over the Jewish education they wanted for their children,” he accused.
"If they want to put us on trial and arrest us, they should do it as quickly as possible, so that we will make it to jail in time to be in prison with the Emanuel detainees,” he added.
Dozens of fathers from the hareidi-religious city of Emanuel were sent to jail last week after refusing to send their daughters to a school where two religious tracks were recently integrated by court order. The parents, members of the Slonim hassidic sect, had created a separate track with more stringent religious standards for their children within an existing hareidi-religious school; judges ordered the girls to learn with children in the regular track.
The court accused the Slonim parents of racism against Sephardi Jews, a charge they denied. Some of the students in the Slonim track are Sephardi, they pointed out. As the parents were taken to jail last week, one father bore a sign saying, “I'm a Sephardi Jew being sent to jail because I wanted my daughter to learn in a hassidic school.”
The Israel Law Center filed a complaint over the arrests, saying the Supreme Court did not have the legal right to order the parents sent to jail. The appeal was rejected by the Supreme Court, which ruled that it was not its place to hear appeals against itself.
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So in Israel, if you call a judge an [censored] or a [censored] you can get thrown in jail. Amazing.
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Its like the one and only miztvah that seems to be recognized by the Israeli government.
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Not to curse a judge (Ex. 22:27)
It does not seem applicable if this one is not also upheld...
Not to appoint as a judge, a person who is not well versed in the laws of the Torah, even if he is expert in other branches of knowledge (Deut. 1:17)
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Its like the one and only miztvah that seems to be recognized by the Israeli government.
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Not to curse a judge (Ex. 22:27)
It does not seem applicable if this one is not also upheld...
Not to appoint as a judge, a person who is not well versed in the laws of the Torah, even if he is expert in other branches of knowledge (Deut. 1:17)
Yes, a member of Sanhedrin must not be cursed, nor a Beit Din... But a secular court imposing unholy laws on people... I don't think Torah protects them..
And on the issue at hand.... I support the Chassidim. I don't believe this school is racist. They simply want to be able to teach their children the Judaism of Chassidus, which by its very definition goes beyond the letter of the law. Why should these parents not be able to teach this form of Ashkenazi Judaism to their children? It sounded like this problem was only with one particular program within the school, not the entire school...
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I didn't know Dorito was an actual name, I just thought it was this:
(http://paschool.net/science_fair/ScienceFair0809/Grade8/Videos/Chip%20Grease%20-%20Kassie%20Coupal,%20Melissa%20Szarapka,%20Jenny%20Hong,%20Brooklyn%20Robb/Pictures/Doritos1.jpg)
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I didn't know Dorito was an actual name, I just thought it was this:
(http://paschool.net/science_fair/ScienceFair0809/Grade8/Videos/Chip%20Grease%20-%20Kassie%20Coupal,%20Melissa%20Szarapka,%20Jenny%20Hong,%20Brooklyn%20Robb/Pictures/Doritos1.jpg)
Actually her name is Dorit, but I added the O to make her into a nacho chip..
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Ok Muman ;D
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Our court is supposed to reflect the will of the populace
No, it is not. The USSC exists to interpret and apply the law and Constitution as originally intended.
Congress is there to reflect the will of the people, by enacting appropriate legislation.
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Our court is supposed to reflect the will of the populace
No, it is not. The USSC exists to interpret and apply the law and Constitution as originally intended.
Congress is there to reflect the will of the people, by enacting appropriate legislation.
Yes. LOL, the funniest thing is that Israel doesn't even have a constitution, so what exactly are these so-called judges doing there? These animals have one goal and one goal only, to impose their will on society. The Israeli supreme court is a tyrannical group of power-hungry Jew-hating antizionists whose one political goal is the "rule of law" ie "the rule of my own iron fist which I call the law because I am the law."
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From everything I am seeing, it is the leaders, politicians and enterpreters of law that are becoming corrupted. The people of nations are becoming informed and are seeking truth, freedom, and knowledge which I believe God is trying to convey to us.
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
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The Bagatz (The Israeli Supreme Court) is one of the fortresses of the self-imposed American colonialism in Israel.
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
ben
You seem to echo the leftist medias portrayal of this event. The truth of the matter is that this has very little to do with racism. It has to do with the freedom of religion, for a family to set a religious standard such as the Chassidim do. The state should allow for religious freedom and not impose a lesser standard, such as the one of the regular Beit Yaakov.
I am listening to a Rabbi explain how the Israeli Supreme court works....
I recommend anyone who is interested in this topic to listen to this:
http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=4&task=videodirectlink&id=5233 (http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=4&task=videodirectlink&id=5233)
Maybe we can discuss this honestly when we learn what the issue is instead of parroting the leftist line that this is a racial issue.
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
But you're confused.
The court is evil not because of the original ruling but because of what came afterwards and their idea of "enforcing" that ruling by sending the parents to jail because they decided to take their kids out of the school after the courts forced them to take the partitions down. I also agree that the court's decision to take down partitions was just and a way to rectify discrimination there. But there was NOT a 100,000 man march against that ruling. The march was against putting parents in jail. And that was evil and tyrannical. I don't agree very often with UTJ or haredi politicians. However their basic assertion that Torah comes above illegitimate secular law is a valid one and a true one, leaving aside all the sheker they add to that.
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The Bagatz (The Israeli Supreme Court) is one of the fortresses of the self-imposed American colonialism in Israel.
Aren't they of secularist German-Jewish origin and ideological descendents of the original anti-zionist group, Hashomer Hatzair? What does America have to do with it?
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The Bagatz (The Israeli Supreme Court) is one of the fortresses of the self-imposed American colonialism in Israel.
Aren't they of secularist German-Jewish origin and ideological descendents of the original anti-zionist group, Hashomer Hatzair? What does America have to do with it?
America decides for us what to do and what not to do, not because her "mightiness" but because the Lefties need a foreign power to rule over the Jews so they can impose their kikiness on the Jewish people, same as they did during the British Nazi occupation of Judah.
This is what I meant by "self-imposed".
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
ben
You seem to echo the leftist medias portrayal of this event. The truth of the matter is that this has very little to do with racism. It has to do with the freedom of religion, for a family to set a religious standard such as the Chassidim do. The state should allow for religious freedom and not impose a lesser standard, such as the one of the regular Beit Yaakov.
Muman, don't conflate the issues. The real problem is NOT with the ruling against the partitions in the school. How anyone can claim the partitions are not based on racism is beyond comprehension. They certainly were rooted in ethnic lines.
The school had a certain requirement and policy for admission as a self-identified "Machmir" version of Beis Yakov (which itself is already a haredi school system). The parents applied for acceptance of their kids. 30% of the school's admitted students were Sephardim, while 70% were Ashkenazi. They all faced the same scrutiny to get in. Classes began. Suddenly the ashkenazi parents/teachers decided they are going to put up separation barriers between Sephardic girls and Ashkenazi girls (with the exception of a handful of uncle tom so-called "Sephardim" who were willing to go along and apparently whose kids were allowed on the Ashkenazi side - probably they were only partially Sephardic, like a cousin or distant relative or great grandparent and that is why they were allowed). How can anyone justify something so evil? There was even a wall put up in the playground at recess! These little Sephardi girls were made to feel like subhuman untermenschen. Forget about how wrong and insane it is to impose this garbage, but think about the emotional damage you are causing young kids by enforcing something like this.
Muman, think of all the big-name Ashkenazi yeshivot - Mir, Hevron, etc etc. Realize that a percentage of the students there are actually Sephardi. And realize that not one school puts up barriers and separates the sephardim from the ashkenazim into separate classes or separate beit midrash or separate facilities, etc etc. And we are talking here not even about adult men but about little girls.
The issue at hand is the evil overextension of the court to throw parents in jail. They actually play into the hands of the perpetrators by gaining them sympathy from the public, including 100,000 haredim who were rallied and all their friends and relatives who now are in solidarity with those who discriminated against the sephardim.
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The Bagatz (The Israeli Supreme Court) is one of the fortresses of the self-imposed American colonialism in Israel.
Aren't they of secularist German-Jewish origin and ideological descendents of the original anti-zionist group, Hashomer Hatzair? What does America have to do with it?
America decides for us what to do and what not to do, not because her "mightiness" but because the Lefties need a foreign power to rule over the Jews so they can impose their kikiness on the Jewish people, same as they did during the British Nazi occupation of Judah.
This is what I meant by "self-imposed".
Oh , I see, I missed that word self-imposed, I agree.
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
But you're confused.
The court is evil not because of the original ruling but because of what came afterwards and their idea of "enforcing" that ruling by sending the parents to jail because they decided to take their kids out of the school after the courts forced them to take the partitions down. I also agree that the court's decision to take down partitions was just and a way to rectify discrimination there. But there was NOT a 100,000 man march against that ruling. The march was against putting parents in jail. And that was evil and tyrannical. I don't agree very often with UTJ or haredi politicians. However their basic assertion that Torah comes above illegitimate secular law is a valid one and a true one, leaving aside all the sheker they add to that.
kahane was right btw.i wish they would protest this evil act of bagatz.but the utj memebers themselves said that they protest the ruling of bagatz about the end of the discrimination in that school.they are hijacking a whole legitimate protest movement for their illegitimate ends.
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
ben
You seem to echo the leftist medias portrayal of this event. The truth of the matter is that this has very little to do with racism. It has to do with the freedom of religion, for a family to set a religious standard such as the Chassidim do. The state should allow for religious freedom and not impose a lesser standard, such as the one of the regular Beit Yaakov.
I am listening to a Rabbi explain how the Israeli Supreme court works....
I recommend anyone who is interested in this topic to listen to this:
http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=4&task=videodirectlink&id=5233 (http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=4&task=videodirectlink&id=5233)
Maybe we can discuss this honestly when we learn what the issue is instead of parroting the leftist line that this is a racial issue.
how you can accept this racism and accuse me for being racist is beyond my comprehension.this is the worst case of double standard.
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I am amazed at the disconnect... I have listened to Rabbis and IsraelNationalNews reporters who do not say what you are saying. Either I am listening to the wrong sources or you are mistaken. Why does A7 not say what you are saying? Do you think that the racism goes all the way to the staff of Arutz Sheva?
Please show me the evidence for what you are saying so I can consider it. To me the issue is that a parent has the right to send their kids to a school which meets their religious standards.
I also have not seen outright racism in this story. I don't know about this seperation wall. Maybe it is because of the religious standards? I heard this Rabbi explain the different levels of Tzniut that each of these classes of girls goes by.
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
But you're confused.
The court is evil not because of the original ruling but because of what came afterwards and their idea of "enforcing" that ruling by sending the parents to jail because they decided to take their kids out of the school after the courts forced them to take the partitions down. I also agree that the court's decision to take down partitions was just and a way to rectify discrimination there. But there was NOT a 100,000 man march against that ruling. The march was against putting parents in jail. And that was evil and tyrannical. I don't agree very often with UTJ or haredi politicians. However their basic assertion that Torah comes above illegitimate secular law is a valid one and a true one, leaving aside all the sheker they add to that.
kahane was right btw.i wish they would protest this evil act of bagatz.but the utj memebers themselves said that they protest the ruling of bagatz about the end of the discrimination in that school.they are hijacking a whole legitimate protest movement for their illegitimate ends.
Unfortunately there is a problem in haredi society, just like in secular Israeli society for the longest time there was racism against Mizrahim and Sephardim (and still is). Some sectors of haredi society have this problem more than others, and some have it less so. I've met many haredi ashkenazi people in Israel who wouldn't dare discriminate or say negative things about Sephardim, and can't fathom how people can do that. Surely the Torah ideal is that we cannot treat fellow Jews with anything less than respect and love - no matter what ethnicity, and that includes Ethiopian ben. That is the Torah ideal. Religious Jews don't always live up to the ideal fully, unfortunately.
The 100,000 people protesting were mostly good-intentioned Jews following the advice of their rabbis, without even knowing the facts or the truth behind the case. But ultimately what churned the engines and got that many people in the streets about it was the perceived injustice done to the parents who were being put in jail. People generally saw that as a crossing of the line and needed little encouragement from the rabbis to get excited about it.
When the initial ruling came down and the partitions were forced to be removed, there was no mass protest. This incident and protest happened many days later (many weeks from what I remember).
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while i don't support this act of dictatorship,i also don't support criticism that is not justifyed.as much as i hate the israeli supreme court i think that this criticism was done by wicked men.the isc just gave a ruling against the racism in the haredi education systems and all of a sudden all the haredi (by the way,the united torah judaism is a LEFTIST party.they supported the diengagement plan back in 2005) in the knesset just got up and started to yell.
But you're confused.
The court is evil not because of the original ruling but because of what came afterwards and their idea of "enforcing" that ruling by sending the parents to jail because they decided to take their kids out of the school after the courts forced them to take the partitions down. I also agree that the court's decision to take down partitions was just and a way to rectify discrimination there. But there was NOT a 100,000 man march against that ruling. The march was against putting parents in jail. And that was evil and tyrannical. I don't agree very often with UTJ or haredi politicians. However their basic assertion that Torah comes above illegitimate secular law is a valid one and a true one, leaving aside all the sheker they add to that.
kahane was right btw.i wish they would protest this evil act of bagatz.but the utj memebers themselves said that they protest the ruling of bagatz about the end of the discrimination in that school.they are hijacking a whole legitimate protest movement for their illegitimate ends.
Unfortunately there is a problem in haredi society, just like in secular Israeli society for the longest time there was racism against Mizrahim and Sephardim (and still is). Some sectors of haredi society have this problem more than others, and some have it less so. I've met many haredi ashkenazi people in Israel who wouldn't dare discriminate or say negative things about Sephardim, and can't fathom how people can do that. Surely the Torah ideal is that we cannot treat fellow Jews with anything less than respect and love - no matter what ethnicity, and that includes Ethiopian ben. That is the Torah ideal. Religious Jews don't always live up to the ideal fully, unfortunately.
The 100,000 people protesting were mostly good-intentioned Jews following the advice of their rabbis, without even knowing the facts or the truth behind the case. But ultimately what churned the engines and got that many people in the streets about it was the perceived injustice done to the parents who were being put in jail. People generally saw that as a crossing of the line and needed little encouragement from the rabbis to get excited about it.
When the initial ruling came down and the partitions were forced to be removed, there was no mass protest. This incident and protest happened many days later (many weeks from what I remember).
ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
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Here is one of the latest articles on A7 about this issue:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/9562
Emanuel: Not an Ethnic Schism
Tammuz 9, 5770, 21 June 10 02:40
by David Bedein
(Israelnationalnews.com) The conflict that now ensues in the city of Emanuel has little to do with ethnic tensions betwen Sephardic and Ashkenazic Jewish Israelis.
Speaking from experience as a social work community organizer who worked in the field in the 1970's and 1980's, short-sighted bureaucratic decisions that were made then are coming home to roost, a generation later.
The idea then was to lump all lower class people into new housing units and into new towns, with the hope that they would get along with one another.
The Israel Housing Ministry and what was then called the Israel Welfare Ministry mixed families with social problems with working families, and also mixed strictly observant Sephardic families with less strictly observant Sephardic families, with the hope that they would get along with one another.
As the more strictly observant Sephardic families began to choose more traditional schools for their children, they were not nterested in welcoming the less observant Sephardic families to attend their schools, which maintained more rigid standards in terms of dress code, television watching, etc.
There was a particular Sephardic woman in Emanuel whose daughter was rejected by the school in Emanuel because the standards of religious observance of her daughter and of her family did not meet the requirements of the school.
That Sephardic woman was media savvy.
She contacted the New Israel Fund, the Shas Party and just about every reporter whom she could get a hold of and claimed that she was being discriminated against because she was a Separdic Jew.
The NIF, Shas and the media had a field day, and condemned the school in Emanual for "racist and discriminatory behavior".
The NIF and Shas, strange bedfellows as they are, sued in the Israel High Court of Justice to demand that the Israel High Court of Justice order the school in Emanuel to admit the less observant Separdic girls into their school.
The NIF and Shas were successful in their suit, and the Israel High Court of Justice demanded that any parent who refused to send their children to school under such circumstances be jailed.
And, indeed, 61 sets of parents announced that they were ready to go to jail rather than admit the less observant Sephardic girls to the school.
27 of those sets of parents are themselves Sephardic Jews.
Does that fact affect the NIF and Shas?
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
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Here is one of the latest articles on A7 about this issue:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/9562
Emanuel: Not an Ethnic Schism
Tammuz 9, 5770, 21 June 10 02:40
by David Bedein
Who is David Bedein?
And is he really this stupid?
What he is saying has absolutely zero relation to what occurred in the case at hand, and I don't know if he is misrepresenting the current case because he is ignorant of the facts, or he is making an invalid comparison because he is deceptive or can't recognize a non-sequitor and can't separate irrelevant material from relevant material. Either way, this constitutes gross negligence that should not be tolerated by any professional news corporation.
There was a particular Sephardic woman in Emanuel whose daughter was rejected by the school in Emanuel because the standards of religious observance of her daughter and of her family did not meet the requirements of the school.
What woman? When? What year? Who? Which school? What requirements exactly? How did they not fit?
This is cheap journalistic trash.
That Sephardic woman was media savvy.
She contacted the New Israel Fund, the Shas Party and just about every reporter whom she could get a hold of and claimed that she was being discriminated against because she was a Separdic Jew.
Maybe she was. But what does this hypothetical woman have to do with the current situation? Zero, Nada, ZILCH. Whoever this mystery woman is, whatever she did (whenever she supposedly did it) tells us nothing about the current case under examination in the courts and discussed in the media.
The NIF, Shas and the media had a field day, and condemned the school in Emanual for "racist and discriminatory behavior".
Maybe there was racist behavior. Are Shas and NIF always wrong just because they are evil? Or maybe it was political opportunism and dishonest. Who cares? We have no idea what case he refers to or how it's relevant to our case.
The NIF and Shas, strange bedfellows as they are, sued in the Israel High Court of Justice to demand that the Israel High Court of Justice order the school in Emanuel to admit the less observant Separdic girls into their school.
When?
The NIF and Shas were successful in their suit, and the Israel High Court of Justice demanded that any parent who refused to send their children to school under such circumstances be jailed.
Huh? He has morphed his mystery-woman case into today's case.
And, indeed, 61 sets of parents announced that they were ready to go to jail rather than admit the less observant Sephardic girls to the school.
27 of those sets of parents are themselves Sephardic Jews.
Flat out lies.
Does that fact affect the NIF and Shas?
Why should it when NIF and SHas have nothing to do with the current supreme court case.
This guy Bedein should be FIRED. For news like what he presents here, one could just listen to local housewives gossip.
Now on to the facts.
SHAS has absolutely nothing to do with this. In fact, many Sephardim are angry with Shas for not condemning the racism in Emanuel. In fact, Shas party chairman Eli Yishai spun a statement of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef to imply that he condemned his own son to loss of Olam Haba (Is Yishai really that stupid that he expects us to believe what he attributes to Rabbi Ovadia? Simply more manipulation of gedolim) - Loss of Olam Haba for ADVISING Laloum to go to the secular courts.
Laloum by the way is the name of the MAN who raised this complaint in the courts. Mystery woman is unheard of. Laloum is the one with death threats on him by certain deviant thugs within the ashkenazi haredim, and Laloum is the one who heads an organization whose goal is to prevent and counteract cases of discrimination against Sephardim ACCORDING TO HALACHA. His halachic adviser, ie his Rav, is Rabbi Yakov Yosef Shlita - The son of Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef. The particular son btw who opposed his father for his father's support for Oslo Shoah, but let's not get off topic.
Rabbi Yakov Yosef has not only received death threats, he has been physically attacked by so-called chasidim, and his children and grandchildren have been threatened. What a disgusting display. A disgrace. A gargantuan chillul Hashem by these people who think they have the monopoly on the truth and on the Torah and think they can impose it on others by violence. Rabbi Yakov Yosef is not a reform rabbi. And there is no way in hell that his father condemns him to lose Olam Haba.
Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef's statement makes sense in only one situation. In a case where a person chose to forego a beit din and go straight to secular courts. But that is not what happened here. Thus, his statement as cited by the Shas gangsters is not relevant. The chassidim were summoned to a Din Torah and they refused to show up. In such a scenario, the halacha gives a person recourse to utilize the secular authorities. No loss of Olam Haba.
Thus Shas did not lead this case, it actually criticized the case for utilizing secular courts. But even shas admits there was discrimination, just that the secular courts are not the place to solve it. See Jpost article which I can cite for you if you like. Just another evil manipulation and betrayal and distortion of the truth by Shas party criminals.
Now some more facts. Laloum is haredi. The parents in question who approached his organization are haredi. The school is a MACHMIR Beis Yakov. You really think they would have admitted secular students? And they didn't. Because there are other schools in the town where secular students can go. The complaint was raised when AFTER all the admitted students began their school year, all of a sudden the school put up separations between two groups within the classes. They literally put up separation walls. In classrooms, in recess. And take a guess on what lines were defined the separation.
The NIF has nothing to do with this.
David Bedein should be fired. But how can you swallow his lies muman without any critical thinking? We have already discussed many relevant facts in this case that completely go against his science fiction tirade. Now I hope I never have to see Bedein's stupidity and two-bit journalism on this website again.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
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KWRBT,
Please provide some links to support your claims. I am just learning the facts and to me it still seems like the Sephardim are not discriminated against because they are Sephardim, simply because they do not meet the requirements of the Chassidic tract of the school...
Please provide some support for your argument.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
The final debate has begun.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
What gobbledy gook are you saying? Did they teach you this in Israeli gym class?
What you said has no relation to what I said.
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The slonim chasidim in Emanuel did actually discriminate against mizrachim. Some of them are definitely racists. They took over a charedi school which is fully funded by the state and abused their power. In short, they were on the wrong side. Now there is merit to the chasidim wishes to keep their own traditions like praying in the ashkenazi pronunciation etc. But they should have sent their daughters to a separate private school rather than take over that school.
The thing is, bagatz didn't just ended the discrimination in the school. It decided that the chasidim must send their daughters to the school and wouldn't allow them to switch schools until the end of the year. There is no law forniding pupils from switching schools midyear, but apparently bagatz can make its own rules as it sees fit. The defiance of the chasidim against this bagatz forcing them to send their children to a school they don't want is completely justifiable. Now to top on that, bagatz held the parents in contempt and decreed that they should all be sent to prison for 10 days I believe. Husbands wives and babies imprisoned and leaving behind large families with no parent. So the women didn't comply and for now they are still free and it seems bagatz would have to reassess its outrageous decree and let the women stay out of prison.
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The slonim chasidim in Emanuel did actually discriminate against mizrachim. Some of them are definitely racists. They took over a charedi school which is fully funded by the state and abused their power. In short, they were on the wrong side. Now there is merit to the chasidim wishes to keep their own traditions like praying in the ashkenazi pronunciation etc. But they should have sent their daughters to a separate private school rather than take over that school.
The thing is, bagatz didn't just ended the discrimination in the school. It decided that the chasidim must send their daughters to the school and wouldn't allow them to switch schools until the end of the year. There is no law forniding pupils from switching schools midyear, but apparently bagatz can make its own rules as it sees fit. The defiance of the chasidim against this bagatz forcing them to send their children to a school they don't want is completely justifiable. Now to top on that, bagatz held the parents in contempt and decreed that they should all be sent to prison for 10 days I believe. Husbands wives and babies imprisoned and leaving behind large families with no parent. So the women didn't comply and for now they are still free and it seems bagatz would have to reassess its outrageous decree and let the women stay out of prison.
Well said. I agree with you completely.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you god can't exist.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.
i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your god can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof fora god that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.
i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your G-d can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof fora G-d that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.
You demonstrate your lack of understanding in every posting. G-d cannot be proven by science because he created the natural laws, he is bigger than any infinity you can imagine, he is smaller than any particle you can think of. Asking for physical proof of G-d is a futile effort, one can only feel his presence in the world. You have cut yourself off from this.. That is your choosing... And science is not the problem ben, there are plenty of wonderful and productive scientists who believe in G-d.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.
i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your G-d can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof fora G-d that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.
Same stupid old "Can G-D create a rock that he cannot lift?" argument. First ignore the definition of G-D, then ignore reason.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
That would be like saying George Lucas can't exist because he is not governed by the laws of the Star Wars universe. G-d exists outside the physical universe that He created. He made the physical laws apply to the physical universe but not to Him.
so tell me.how he created the universe?
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
That would be like saying George Lucas can't exist because he is not governed by the laws of the Star Wars universe. G-d exists outside the physical universe that He created. He made the physical laws apply to the physical universe but not to Him.
so tell me.how he created the universe?
Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.
i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your G-d can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof fora G-d that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.
one can only feel his presence in the world. You have cut yourself off from this.. That is your choosing.
oh realy? one can feel god's presence? you know what.i don''t need to feel his presence.i just open the news and see the result of his presence.foolds,diseases,hunger,islam.this is you god? or this is satan? or maybe they are the same being and god ust pretend to be a mlevolent person.
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<snip>
oh realy? one can feel G-d's presence? you know what.i don''t need to feel his presence.i just open the news and see the result of his presence.foolds,diseases,hunger,islam.this is you G-d? or this is satan? or maybe they are the same being and G-d ust pretend to be a mlevolent person.
Yes G-d expresses himself in the day-to-day operation of the world. Hashem created 'Satan' in order to challenge us. I do not think that you are ready to understand the reason for good and evil in the world because you only believe in things that you can see... If you are interested there are good reasons for each of the things you mentioned..
You seem to believe in a dualist nature which is not Jewish at all... Hashem creates both Light and Dark, Good an Evil... Free will is what determines if we succeed or fail in our mission.
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ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.
That statement only makes sense in the context of physics. You can't extend that to life in general. ???
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems. But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem. So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem. But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.
But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations. Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for. It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success. But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.
physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.
Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.
everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.
That would be like saying George Lucas can't exist because he is not governed by the laws of the Star Wars universe. G-d exists outside the physical universe that He created. He made the physical laws apply to the physical universe but not to Him.
so tell me.how he created the universe?
Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html
we surely don't need god to explain the big bang.it could be aliens (i don't beleive that but it is still legit like your argument that god is responsible to the big bang is legit) or it could be just a freak random accident.
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One thing is certain in my mind ben... Your birth was the biggest accident ever...
Grow up my 'fiend'...
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<snip>
oh realy? one can feel G-d's presence? you know what.i don''t need to feel his presence.i just open the news and see the result of his presence.foolds,diseases,hunger,islam.this is you G-d? or this is satan? or maybe they are the same being and G-d ust pretend to be a mlevolent person.
Yes G-d expresses himself in the day-to-day operation of the world. Hashem created 'Satan' in order to challenge us. I do not think that you are ready to understand the reason for good and evil in the world because you only believe in things that you can see... If you are interested there are good reasons for each of the things you mentioned..
You seem to believe in a dualist nature which is not Jewish at all... Hashem creates both Light and Dark, Good an Evil... Free will is what determines if we succeed or fail in our mission.
no i am not a dualist. i am a pessimistic,i see everyday how the world is going to hell.and by your arguments it is your godwho is responsible.
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One thing is certain in my mind ben... Your birth was the biggest accident ever...
Grow up my 'fiend'...
my birth was the greatest gift your god could possibly was able to sent for man kind.
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Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html
we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.
Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed. In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite. He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world. So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world. And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy and misguided. So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.
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Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html
we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.
Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed. In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite. He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world. So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world. And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided. So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.
acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.
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Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html
we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.
Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed. In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite. He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world. So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world. And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided. So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.
acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.
What existed before the 'big bang'?
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Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html
we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.
Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed. In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite. He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world. So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world. And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided. So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.
acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.
Simply not true. That is not Steven Hawking.
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Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html
we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.
Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed. In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite. He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world. So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world. And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided. So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.
acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.
What existed before the 'big bang'?
Clearly time and space did, but since the big bang as postulated by scientists occurred by the laws of Einstein's equations, then apparently Einstein's equations existed too, and according to a very confused person who wants to conflate the big bang with G-d's act of creation of the world from nothing (which the "big bang" event most certainly is NOT), then Einstein's laws created the universe ;D
I say clearly time and space did because most physicists today believe in the multiverse theory.
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I think we have gone entirely off topic. I think we should discuss physics and Torah in the Torah section again...
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This should help discern the truth:
Laloum in his own words:
http://www.haaretz.com/magazine/week-s-end/a-man-where-there-are-no-men-1.296953
Rabbi Yakov Yosef exits struggle due to physical threats to his children and grandchildren (he himself was attacked physically twice at his yeshiva).
http://vidyid.com/rabbi-yaakov-yosef-quits-emmanuel-school-struggle-after-being-threatened.html
JPost took down their original article or else I would have cited that.
I can quote you the original text though, before jpost altered the article and removed reference to Rabbi Yosef.
It was here. http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=178909
Rabbi leaves activity against racism after receiving threats.
By JONAH MANDEL, ABE SELIG AND JPOST.COM STAFF
Rabbi Ya'acov Yoseph, the spiritual mentor of the group that filed the petition against the Emmanuel school, has decided to stop his activities against racial discrimination, after he and his family have been threatened. In addition, the High Court of Justice on Sunday will decide whether to enforce its order to imprison the mothers from Emmanuel, who did not show up on Thursday for the beginning of their two-week incarceration.
Rabbi Ya'acov Yoseph announced on Saturday night that he was ceasing his activities against racial discrimination in the Emmanuel Beit Ya'acov school, following a recent influx of threats on members of his family, including his children and grandchildren. “So long the threats were aimed at me, I continued my struggle. But now that my family members are being targeted, I'm quitting,” he was quoted by Kikar Hashabat as saying.
Yoseph is the spiritual mentor of Yoav Laloum, who along with his NGO Noar Kahalacha filed the original petition against the segregation at the Emmanuel school. He is also the son of Shas spiritual leader and senior Sepharadi adjudicator Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who repeatedly spoke out against turning to a secular court for arbitration, rather than to a rabbinical court. Haredi assailants had also affronted Ya'acov Yosef on more than one occasion on Thursday, but he was not harmed.
Israel Radio cited Ya'acov Yosef as saying that there remain 33 rabbis dedicated to fighting racial discrimination in the haredi world, but they will remain anonymous to ensure their safety and steadfastness in their struggle.
Twenty-two mothers and thirty-five fathers were supposed to begin two-week jail terms for holding the court in contempt, after they refused to return their daughters to the school, once the walls dividing between the “hassidic track” and the rest of the schools were removed at the court's order. Most of the fathers involved showed up at the police station on Thursday and began serving their time.
The court ruled that the segregation within the school was illegal as it was racially motivated, evident in the fact that it divided between Sephardi girls and the Ashkenazi ones from Slonim hassidut families. The Slonim parents insisted that the motivation behind the separation was religious stringency, and as proof cited the fact that a number of Sephardi girls were accepted to the hassidic track. Three Sephardi fathers were among those imprisoned on Thursday.
A few of the missing mothers are pregnant, some are breastfeeding, and most have many children. Devora Fuksman, one of them, gave birth to a girl on Thursday night. Her husband, Yehuda, stayed by his wife during the birth of his twelfth child, and reported to the Maasiyahu Prison on Friday morning. Two more fathers still have not reported to jail.
After the parents' lawyer requested that the mothers not be jailed, the Attorney-General met with representatives of the Ministry of Welfare and Social Services, who advised him to take the children's welfare into consideration. The ministry is prepared to take care of the 250 children whose parents were sentenced, and has appointed a social worker to each family.
Attorney-General Yehuda Weinstein has already recommended that the Court waive its order to incarcerate the mothers of Beit Ya'acov school pupils.
Late Thursday night, Weinstein held a meeting at the Justice Ministry, in which he praised the police on their non-violent behavior during the protests accompanying the jailing of the Emmanuel fathers.
On Friday, Yoav Laloum and the Noar Kahalacha NGO that originally petitioned the court against the racist division in the Beit Ya'acov school, requested of the High Court to free the fathers.
"Incarceration is not an effective way to enforce the High Court's decision in this matter," they wrote in their new petition. The court did not convene for a discussion on the matter on Friday, and said it would debate the issue on Sunday.
Later that Friday, the young boys whose fathers are imprisoned showed up at the gates of the Ma'asiyahu Prison in their Shabbat finest, to strengthen the spirit of their missing parents. The boys and adults who brought them there held signs wishing the fathers a “git Shabbos” and expressing their support. They also sang traditional Slonim Shabbat tunes and danced. Their request to enter the prison to meet the fathers was turned down by the Prisons Service.
MK Yohanan Plessner (Kadima) called on Saturday for the prime minister and the education minister to remove Deputy Education Minister Meir Porush (United Torah Judaism) from office, who on Tuesday had announced that he would move his offices to the gates of the jail where the fathers are being held. Plessner said that it was unacceptable that MK Porush would use his office and government resources to lead a protest against a ruling of the High Court.
In a similar reaction to Porush's expression of discontent from the court's ruling, MK Nitzan Horowitz issued a statement inviting “Porush and his friends, who hold the Zionist State and its rules in contempt, to leave the government and put an end to the suffering they undergo when accepting fundings and supports from the state they do not recognize.”
“Porush's stance does not represent the Ministry's,” Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar told Channel Two on Saturday, in response to his deputy minister's stance against the court's ruling and in support of the parents right to heed their rabbi. Sa'ar further noted “the quiet and non-violent demonstrations” on Thursday, which were “a manifestation of the legitimate right of protest.”
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When people are bullying and threatening and physically attacking, it is almost a guarantee that the truth is not on their side. The thuggary has become commonplace for the meaningless and destructive UTJ political "struggles."
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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3906845,00.html
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I dont have time now to look deeply into the issue. My initial response is that all the media which you cite are considered, at least by me, to be left wing publications {Ha'aretz, Ynet, and Jpost}...
But I will leave an open mind and look at what has been written. I am very unhappy that this schism has to occur when Israel really needs unity in the face of mounting world pressure.
Let me also add that any attack on a Rabbi like this is a serious issue. I hope that the Chassidic Rabbis condemn this activity. Nowhere does Torah {in my understanding} give the right to act in such a manner.
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I dont have time now to look deeply into the issue. My initial response is that all the media which you cite are considered, at least by me, to be left wing publications {Ha'aretz, Ynet, and Jpost}...
It doesn't make a difference. Read the actual articles. They interviewed the person who logged the complaint to the Supreme Court. He answers the questions in his own words. The notion of media bias is hardly a factor there. So do you think the person who made the original complaint would have some idea what the complaint was about? It doesn't matter if jpost, ynet, or an alien interviewed him. It's an interview.
And reporting on the attacks on Rabbi Yakov Yosef, or his own comments related to the issue, also have little to do with the media outlet's bias. Unless you can somehow show in what way that is relevant particularly here. I don't see it.
Let me also add that any attack on a Rabbi like this is a serious issue. I hope that the Chassidic Rabbis condemn this activity. Nowhere does Torah {in my understanding} give the right to act in such a manner.
I have not seen any condemnation whatsoever, from hasidic or any other rabbi. The Shastitute party was too busy condemning bringing the case to secular courts though.... Where can they find the time to defend human dignity?
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When people are bullying and threatening and physically attacking, it is almost a guarantee that the truth is not on their side. The thuggary has become commonplace for the meaningless and destructive UTJ political "struggles."
Just because people are emotional and threatening to be violent does not mean there is no truth in their arguments. After all, HaRav Kahane would always threaten to get violent with Nazis and refuse to debate them, so does that mean there was no truth in his arguments.
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I dont have time now to look deeply into the issue. My initial response is that all the media which you cite are considered, at least by me, to be left wing publications {Ha'aretz, Ynet, and Jpost}...
It doesn't make a difference. Read the actual articles. They interviewed the person who logged the complaint to the Supreme Court. He answers the questions in his own words. The notion of media bias is hardly a factor there. So do you think the person who made the original complaint would have some idea what the complaint was about? It doesn't matter if jpost, ynet, or an alien interviewed him. It's an interview.
And reporting on the attacks on Rabbi Yakov Yosef, or his own comments related to the issue, also have little to do with the media outlet's bias. Unless you can somehow show in what way that is relevant particularly here. I don't see it.
Let me also add that any attack on a Rabbi like this is a serious issue. I hope that the Chassidic Rabbis condemn this activity. Nowhere does Torah {in my understanding} give the right to act in such a manner.
I have not seen any condemnation whatsoever, from hasidic or any other rabbi. The Shastitute party was too busy condemning bringing the case to secular courts though.... Where can they find the time to defend human dignity?
Take a look at this article by Moshe Feiglin
http://jewishisrael.org/eng_contents/articles/article7044.html (http://jewishisrael.org/eng_contents/articles/article7044.html)
The demonization campaign against the Haredim is pre-meditated – no doubt about it. Suddenly, everyone is very concerned over what subjects the Haredim are teaching their students. Suddenly the leftist, secular, Ashkenazi elites wake up and bemoan the small numbers of Sephardic girls in the Chassidic schools.
It is not too difficult to figure out where the source of this ugly wave of anti-Semitism hides. Those people who have everything to gain from the "secular" name-brand are Tzippy Livni and media-personality and aspiring politician Yair Lapid. The politics of hate are very effective. Ehud Barak waged an anti-Haredi campaign and became prime minister. Tommy Lapid won an amazing election victory with anti-Semitic tactics, Tzippy Livni also won over incited voters in the last elections and Tommy's son, Yair wants a piece of the action, as well.
The promotional firms and their well-funded clients are cooking up a political big-bang for the Israeli public. Recent history has proven that when Israeli society moves Right, hatred for the settlers does not bring in the votes. So who will be the bad guy? Which witch will the raging mob learn to hate and hunt down? Who else but the Haredim?
The problem in Emanuel is not Ashkenazi discrimination against Sephardic Jews. 30% of the students in the school in question are Sephardic. The real question in this case is: Who determines what education our children will receive – the parents, who ostensibly have the right to educate their children according to their beliefs, or the State and its justice system?
Manhigut Yehudit has always been an egalitarian movement that does not differentiate between Ashkenazic or Sephardic, observant or non-observant Jews. But this open approach must be a product of free choice and not of coercion. We believe that schools should unconditionally accept all children who would like to learn. But we can certainly honor the desire of parents who, in this age of permissiveness and rebelliousness, choose to keep their children in a more closed learning environment.
In Israel today, the Education Minister is the supreme authority over our children's education and can expropriate the parents' rights to determine the type of education they want for their children. This abnormal reality creates distortions, such as the attempt to force parents to send their daughters to an educational track that does not meet their educational/spiritual standards under the threat of fines and imprisonment.
There are thousands of children who illegally do not attend school in Israel. Some of them even illegally work for their parents, or work with their active consent. But these children are mostly Bedouin or Arabs, so no public storm clouds will burst over the issue and the "rule of law" will not have its way. But when the parents in question are Haredi and are doing their utmost so that their daughters attend school, the court will not hesitate to show them who is the boss. The media will accuse the parents of racism, the war drums will beat and the public atmosphere will become hateful and closed-minded.
Essentially, we are all in the same boat. The Supreme Court, which has nowhere near 30% representation of Sephardic Jews on its lofty bench, should not be allowed to force its values on the parents of Emanuel. Manhigut Yehudit is not in favor of segregation, but we are totally opposed to coercion of values in any realm - and certainly in the all-important educational realm.
The educational "seminar in jail" that the Supreme Court has imposed upon the Emanuel parents for their refusal to send their daughters back to school is reminiscent of the "educational seminar" to which the Jews opposed to the Expulsion from Gush Katif were treated by the courts. Now, when the media is hunting down witches and the flames of hatred are being fanned high, we must stand united with the Haredi public. This struggle is the struggle of every Jew who cares about individual liberties and the Jewish nature of this country.