JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on July 12, 2010, 12:43:21 PM
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http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3393025&adultCheck=1
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Arabs are the cruelest most miserable people on the face of the planet.
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I am not going to watch it but can you say what's going on in the video ?
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I am not going to watch it but can you say what's going on in the video ?
a cow is held down, gets its throat cut, and bleeds out.
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I'm not going to watch it either.
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Look, if they cut the heads off of people (i.e., Daniel Pearl), what's a cow to them?
These people are lower than vermin and lice.
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I am not going to watch it but can you say what's going on in the video ?
a cow is held down, gets its throat cut, and bleeds out.
And the Muzzie is yelling "Allahu Akbar" during the whole scene.
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I am not going to watch it but can you say what's going on in the video ?
a cow is held down, gets its throat cut, and bleeds out.
And the Muzzie is yelling "Allahu Akbar" during the whole scene.
About a dozen Muzzies are yelling "Allahu Akbar".
Kosher slaughter is pretty gross to watch too, but nothing as crude or weird as this.
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Disgusting. Sick how that cow survived for the whole four minutes while they cut him.
Where are those PETA a$$h01e$?
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I didn't watch the video, but from your description it seems that's shechita lol.
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I didn't watch the video, but from your description it seems that's shechita lol.
You compare Jewish humane slaughter to the barbaric sub-human Moslem slaughter?
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it was not even a proper halal by muslim standards. After not being able to slit it completely, the guy started to rip open the cows heart.
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Look, if they cut the heads off of people (i.e., Daniel Pearl), what's a cow to them?
These people are lower than vermin and lice.
This about says it all why labor the point... Its a cow they are going to kill it one way or another....It's sad to make the animal suffer needlessly but we don't need this to show that we are dealing with savages
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The saddest thing of all is that they do the same to ... human beings
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They enjoyed the whole thing, pinning the animal down, and saying their Allah Akbar chant ( the most depressing and devil like chant I've ever heard) while slitting it's throat, listening to the cow scream in pain, and playing in a river of blood of cow blood. The world would be a better place wihout ARabs!
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I didn't watch the video, but from your description it seems that's shechita lol.
You compare Jewish humane slaughter to the barbaric sub-human Moslem slaughter?
You said , "a cow is held down, gets its throat cut, and bleeds out." That sounds like slaughter. From that sentence, you can't see any details.
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I didn't watch the video, but from your description it seems that's shechita lol.
You compare Jewish humane slaughter to the barbaric sub-human Moslem slaughter?
ever seen a video of Kosher animal slaughter?
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Recently Yishai Fleischer of A7 interviewed someone about his experience witnessing the slaughter of sheep... I have not listened to it, but it didn't sound from the description that it was that bad...
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/2373
Shmuel from the Golan has an incredible experience the every Jew needs - saying goodbye to a sheep before a ritual slaughter in his front yard. Then, send yourself on some Real Life Israel experience and protest terrorist give-aways together with Jewish Activism.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HZnQmc3U9I&feature=related
Kosher slaughter plant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HciexO7h28A&feature=related
Kosher slaughter from 1930 [that is a sharp knife!].
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAtaLp137E
Halal slaughter plant. [cows start being shown @ 1:00]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ach2hmBT0jQ
Electric bolt stunning slaughter. [non religious]
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i guess the point is that its hard to make killing an animal look good
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i guess the point is that its hard to make killing an animal look good
Absolutely! I think after watching the videos I have recently seen [the ones I posted I only saw after the creation of this thread] I am going to give up eating beef. The cows look so distraught, clearly they would very much like do be doing other things than being slaughtered. If I was the very first man on Earth [like Adam perhaps] I do not think I would have put "2+2 together" with cows being food [they look like pets!]. I do love the taste of many beef things, especially burgers w/ tofutti soy fake cheese, but I don't think I could feel happy eating burgers any more. I already gave up eating goat because I played with a friendly goat during Purim a few years ago and decided one day I would like to have one as a pet. I think all Mammals are out of bounds for me, as a fellow Mammal I guess I see something that I am empathetic to. I feel kind of stupid for being influenced from watching PETA videos on Youtube and such in such a short period of time.
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Ari just make sure that if you do give up meat that you get enough iron, B12, and other important nutrients from alternative sources. There is a product for vegetarians called Red Star Nutritional Yeast that's supposed to be a vegetarian support formula.
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Ari just make sure that if you do give up meat that you get enough iron, B12, and other important nutrients from alternative sources. There is a product for vegetarians called Red Star Nutritional Yeast that's supposed to be a vegetarian support formula.
Thanks Rubystars, I will jot that down in my bookmarks. Would I need to take that if I eat fish almost every day?
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My friend did an apprenticeship and learned to slaughter (shecht) chickens. He apparently became very good at it.
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Ari just make sure that if you do give up meat that you get enough iron, B12, and other important nutrients from alternative sources. There is a product for vegetarians called Red Star Nutritional Yeast that's supposed to be a vegetarian support formula.
Thanks Rubystars, I will jot that down in my bookmarks. Would I need to take that if I eat fish almost every day?
I think eating fish helps but be careful about the mercury other possible contaminants that could build up in your system and cause health problems. Fish itself is healthy but because of pollution often the water the fish is in isn't, espcially predator fish that eat other creatures that accumulate mercury, etc.
Here's some info about the product, I think it replaces some of the nutrients that are usually in beef:
http://www.bulkfoods.com/yeast.htm
Don't look at the price on that page, it's talking about a huge bulk amount, but the info on the product is valid.
This site sells it:
http://store.veganessentials.com/red-star-nutritional-yeast-p734.aspx
Vitamin profile:
Thiamin - 640% RDA, Niacin – 280% RDA, Folic Acid – 60% RDA, Selenium – 32% RDA, Iron – 4% RDA, Riboflavin – 565% RDA, Vitamin B6 – 480% RDA, Vitamin B12 – 133% RDA, Zinc – 21% RDA
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Why doesn't everybody just all use the electric bolt slaughter instead?
That seems to be the most humane way to kill the cow.
Kosher and Halal slaughter is still violent and inhumane. It involves a live conscious cow being sliced and hung up-side-down by one leg until it slowly bleeds to death.
Why not move into the 21st century?
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Ari just make sure that if you do give up meat that you get enough iron, B12, and other important nutrients from alternative sources. There is a product for vegetarians called Red Star Nutritional Yeast that's supposed to be a vegetarian support formula.
Thanks Rubystars, I will jot that down in my bookmarks. Would I need to take that if I eat fish almost every day?
I think eating fish helps but be careful about the mercury other possible contaminants that could build up in your system and cause health problems. Fish itself is healthy but because of pollution often the water the fish is in isn't, espcially predator fish that eat other creatures that accumulate mercury, etc.
Here's some info about the product, I think it replaces some of the nutrients that are usually in beef:
http://www.bulkfoods.com/yeast.htm
Don't look at the price on that page, it's talking about a huge bulk amount, but the info on the product is valid.
This site sells it:
http://store.veganessentials.com/red-star-nutritional-yeast-p734.aspx
Vitamin profile:
Thiamin - 640% RDA, Niacin – 280% RDA, Folic Acid – 60% RDA, Selenium – 32% RDA, Iron – 4% RDA, Riboflavin – 565% RDA, Vitamin B6 – 480% RDA, Vitamin B12 – 133% RDA, Zinc – 21% RDA
Thanks Rubystars. :)
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You're welcome! I want people in JTF to be healthy!
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Why doesn't everybody just all use the electric bolt slaughter instead?
That seems to be the most humane way to kill the cow.
Kosher and Halal slaughter is still violent and inhumane. It involves a live conscious cow being sliced and hung up-side-down by one leg until it slowly bleeds to death.
Why not move into the 21st century?
Because G-d said so... Torah clearly says that Kosher slaughter should be done with a sharp knife to slit the throat...
The explanation as to why is very complex, having to do with the reason animals are allowed to be eaten by man...
Remember that we are supposed to be offering Korbanot at the altar and us devout Jews believe when Moshiach comes we will once again offer Korbanot at the Temple.
Also, according to Halacha the animal should feel no pain...
Here is Chabads discussion of the Shechita process:
Why Do Jews Practice Shechita?
Jewish law states that, if meat is to be eaten (Genesis IX: 3), Jews are required to dispatch an animal by shechita, a carefully prescribed humane method. It is the only method permitted by Jewish law and its practice causes no suffering to the animal.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/222241/jewish/Why-Do-Jews-Practice-Shechita.htm
Animal welfare in Jewish law
Jewish law requires that animals be treated with consideration, kindness and respect. The Bible (Torah) is the first systematic legislation prohibiting cruelty to animals and mandating their humane treatment. These laws are binding on Jews today.
For example:
• It is prohibited to cause pain to animals - Tza'ar Ba'alei Chayim - (Talmud B.M. 32a)
• A person is required to feed his animals before himself (Deuteronomy XI:15)
• Animals are to rest on the Sabbath since work is forbidden (Ex. XX:10 and Deut V:14)
• It is prohibited to sever a limb from a live animal and eat it (Genesis IX:4)
• One is obligated to relieve an animal’s suffering (Deuteronomy XXII:4)
• It is forbidden to kill a cow and her calf on the same day (Leviticus XXII:28)
• An animal threshing corn must not be muzzled (Deuteronomy XXV:4)
• An ox and donkey must not be harnessed together (Deuteronomy XXII:10)
From these biblical injunctions flow numerous laws for animal care and relief of animal suffering. Blood sports have always been forbidden to Jews.
Jewish teaching permits the taking of an animal’s life in order to fulfill the human need for food. The method is through shechita and a shochet is always aware that it is his responsibility to perform shechita only as prescribed by the Torah (Jewish law), which is a most humane method. Any modification renders the meat unconditionally forbidden to Jews as food.
Judaism recognizes the link between the treatment of animals and the treatment of human beings. A person who is cruel to animals is likely to be cruel to people. Animal welfare is an important part of Jewish law and tradition. The personal conduct of a Jew in his religious observance and moral integrity is a fundamental part of the assessment of his suitability to practise as a licensed shochet.
How Is Shechita Performed?
Shechita is performed with a surgically sharp instrument (a chalaf), which must be perfectly smooth without the minutest notch or irregularity. The shochet constantly examines the instrument to ensure this standard is maintained. The frontal structures at the neck including the trachea, oesophagus, the carotid arteries and jugular veins are severed in a rapid and uninterrupted action causing an instant drop in blood pressure in the brain. This results in the immediate and irreversible cessation of consciousness and sensibility to pain. Proponents of stunning seek to achieve the state of unconsciousness by additional intervention, but shechita humanely incorporates stunning as an integral part of the procedure, which renders the animal insensible to pain, dispatches and exsanguinates with a rapid action.
Exsanguination is the bleed-out of the carcass. This is especially important in Jewish law as Jews are forbidden to consume blood (Deuteronomy XII:23). Exsanguination is necessary in all methods of animal slaughter since blood deteriorates quickly and could putrefy the meat if it is retained in the animal. Shechita ensures maximum exsanguination.
There are five Halachic requirements that the shochet is obliged to ensure in the performance of shechita, (Shulchan Oruch, Yoreh De'ah: 23):
a) There should be no interruption of the incision (Shehiya);
b) There should be no pressing of the chalaf against the neck (Derasa), this would exclude use of a guillotine;
c) The chalaf should not be covered by the hide of cattle, wool of sheep or feathers of birds (Chalada), and therefore the chalaf has to be of adequate length;
d) The incision must be at the appropriate site to sever the major structures and vessels at the neck (Hagrama);
e) There must be no tearing of the vessels before or during the shechita process (Ikkur).
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Chaim has also said on past Ask JTF shows that electric shocks are *very* painful.
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Why doesn't everybody just all use the electric bolt slaughter instead?
That seems to be the most humane way to kill the cow.
Kosher and Halal slaughter is still violent and inhumane. It involves a live conscious cow being sliced and hung up-side-down by one leg until it slowly bleeds to death.
Why not move into the 21st century?
I don't believe it is true that kosher slaughter requires hanging the cow upside down.
And why is an electric bolt any better than slicing its neck?
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Why doesn't everybody just all use the electric bolt slaughter instead?
That seems to be the most humane way to kill the cow.
Kosher and Halal slaughter is still violent and inhumane. It involves a live conscious cow being sliced and hung up-side-down by one leg until it slowly bleeds to death.
Why not move into the 21st century?
I don't believe it is true that kosher slaughter requires hanging the cow upside down.
And why is an electric bolt any better than slicing its neck?
I believe that shortly after the slaughter the blood must be drained. I have not seen it nor do I know the specifics but that may be the reason...
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Why doesn't everybody just all use the electric bolt slaughter instead?
That seems to be the most humane way to kill the cow.
Kosher and Halal slaughter is still violent and inhumane. It involves a live conscious cow being sliced and hung up-side-down by one leg until it slowly bleeds to death.
Why not move into the 21st century?
I don't believe it is true that kosher slaughter requires hanging the cow upside down.
And why is an electric bolt any better than slicing its neck?
I believe that shortly after the slaughter the blood must be drained. I have not seen it nor do I know the specifics but that may be the reason...
Blood can be drained without hanging upside down. You really shouldn't speak unless you know.
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Why doesn't everybody just all use the electric bolt slaughter instead?
That seems to be the most humane way to kill the cow.
Kosher and Halal slaughter is still violent and inhumane. It involves a live conscious cow being sliced and hung up-side-down by one leg until it slowly bleeds to death.
Why not move into the 21st century?
I don't believe it is true that kosher slaughter requires hanging the cow upside down.
And why is an electric bolt any better than slicing its neck?
I believe that shortly after the slaughter the blood must be drained. I have not seen it nor do I know the specifics but that may be the reason...
Blood can be drained without hanging upside down. You really shouldn't speak unless you know.
Let me see what I can find via the Jewish search engine http://www.4torah.com
http://www.kosherquest.org/bookhtml/SHECHITA_THROUGH_BUTCHER.htm
IS IT KOSHER?
SHECHITA
One question often asked by people who are considering observing the laws of kashrus is, "Why does kosher meat have to cost so much?" We will attempt to answer this valid question by looking at the process of "shechita," Jewish ritual slaughter.
Ritual slaughter of animals differs in many ways from common techniques of slaughter. In ritual slaughter, we find caution and detail in every act. In this rabbinically supervised slaughter, the animal is killed with a knife. In this act we emphasize Jewish respect for the dignity of life. Great care is taken to use a knife that has been properly sharpened. The blade must be flawless, without a nick, and perfectly smooth, thus assuring that the kill will be quick, clean and painless to the animal.
This entire process begins with the shochet (ritual slaughterer) inspecting the knife for possible flaws and nicks. He does this by running the edge of his fingernail and finger up and down the blade. The slightest nick means that the knife must be resharpened. After this, he recites a short Bracha before beginning the actual Shechita.
This knife (chalaf) is usually about 6 inches long for chickens and 18 inches long for larger animals. The knife has no point at the end of it, and is of equal width from top to bottom. These precautions are necessary in order to guarantee that the neck of the animal will not be torn. The shochet must cut through the trachea and esophagus to the jugular vein very quickly and in a clean fashion. He must not kill the animal by stabbing it.
The animal’s neck is first washed thoroughly to remove any sand particles in the fur which could cause a nick in the knife during slaughter. The shochet’s hand must be very steady, and he must employ one continuous movement, carefully avoiding the spine. This cut only takes a few seconds and is a much more humane method of killing an animal than are such common practices as smashing the head, shooting the animal or scalding it while it is still alive.
Following the slaughter, the carcass is hung upside down so that the blood can drain properly. Then the shochet checks for adhesions on the lungs, which would indicate an abscess. If one is found, the animal is rejected as unkosher. Only about 30 percent of slaughtered animals can be used for kosher distribution.
At this point the traibering process is begun. The major blood vessels, nerves and forbidden fats will be removed.
The carcass is then divided into primal cuts. The next step is soaking the meat in water for 30 minutes. It is then salted for 1 hour, and then washed another 3 times.
A large slaughterhouse, when operating full time, may be able to slaughter 60 to 150 animals per hour. This process requires shochtim and rabbis on the premises for additional help in supervision. After the soaking and salting, a plumba (kosher seal) is either attached or stamped onto the meat or chicken.
Thus, the number of people needed to work in a kosher slaughtering and packing house is many times greater than in a non-kosher establishment and this considerably increases the price per pound of kosher meat. In addition, most butcher shops are relatively small businesses and must operate at a higher mark-up than do large chain supermarkets.
LAWS OF SHECHITA
There are 5 ways in which the slaughter becomes not kosher:
1) Shehiya. There must not be the least pause during the process of shechita.
2) Derassa. The process of slaughtering must be done by moving the knife back and forth — not through downward pressure. The knife, therefore, must be long enough to allow slaughtering without too much pressure. Moreover, the animal must be in such a position that undo pressure will not be placed on the knife.
3) Chalada. The shechita knife must be uncovered during the entire process of shechita. For this reason, the knife for shechita has a long and broad blade without a thin sharp end at the front or back.
4) Hagrama. The cut must be performed on the throat, between the level of the larynx and the lower part of the trachea and esophagus.
5) Ikkur. The trachea and esophagus must be cut through and not ripped out. The knife, therefore, must be very sharp and very smooth. The smallest nick in the blade will cause tearing. For this reason, the knife is checked for smoothness and sharpness before and after each shechita.
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http://rabbi.bendory.com/pix/shechita/
http://rabbi.bendory.com/pix/shechita/tn/imgp1508.jpg.php
Lifting the Carcass
The cow is lifted and the blood is rinsed away.
http://rabbi.bendory.com/pix/shechita/tn/imgp1509.jpg.php
The carcass is hung to drain the blood.
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...from the cow's mad screams, I'd say slicing his throat is painful.
A Jew invented the atom bomb almost a hundred years ago.
I'm sure in the 21st century another Jew can find a better way to kill a cow.
Another thing is from the videos, you really don't completely drain out all the cows blood.
Its still red, therefore there's still blood in there.
BTW this is not to fight against Jewish law, but a quest for knowledge.
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Muman: Oh I see. I was thinking of something else. There is something called "shackle and hoist" method which the Israeli rabbinate has decided is unethical and they are getting rid of this. It is being replaced with another method of hanging the cow upside down.
I did read that there is another alternative which requires shechting the cow while it stands there, without turning upside down, but there is some kind of chumrah which prevents the kashrut agencies from accepting this method because of some other factor. So it does seem that today the common practice is that hanging upside down gets the blood drained more quickly. That said, this appears to occur after the cow is already dead.
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...from the cow's mad screams, I'd say slicing his throat is painful.
Shocking the cow is also painful, and I'm sure he screams there too.
How does one exactly kill an animal without pain? Killing usually hurts. The point is to minimize pain and produce as little as possible. I can't see that you've offered any viable alternative. And I'm sure they been thinking about them.
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Jooish kosher slaughter is nothing better. It is just the same. I do not like this way of slaughtering. But that is how it is commanded, so we have to do it that way.