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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on July 17, 2010, 08:21:10 PM

Title: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on July 17, 2010, 08:21:10 PM
I think Judah the Maccabee (along with his brothers Jonathan and Shimon), Bar Kochva, Joshua, Joab son of Zeruiah,  Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Julius Caeser, Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Douglas McArthur, Charles Lee, Georgy Zhukov, K.K Rokosovky, Helmut von Moltke the elder, Scipio Africanus, Erwin Rommel, Heinz Guderian, Erich von Manstein, John Pershing, Karl Donitz, Isoroku Yamamoto, Kublay Khan, Hulagu Khan, Tamerlane, Carl the Great, Fredreich Barbarossa, Alexander Nevsky and Cortes the Conquistador.

What do you think?  ;D
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on July 17, 2010, 08:32:58 PM
The Nazis were not great military leaders. They had a cakewalk in the early years of WWII because no other nation was fully prepared for mass murder like they were. They conquered a lot for the same reason that Hezbollah won in 2006, because their opponents did not eat, sleep, breathe, and train for genocide.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on July 17, 2010, 08:39:19 PM
The Nazis were not great military leaders. They had a cakewalk in the early years of WWII because no other nation was fully prepared for mass murder like they were. They conquered a lot for the same reason that Hezbollah won in 2006, because their opponents did not eat, sleep, breathe, and train for genocide.

I disagree. Technically, all of their major rivals (the Soviets, the French, the British and the Americans) were well-armed and well-trained (yes, the Soviets were).  The Soviets started fighting back already in 1942 when von Manstein was still in the scene and so was his counterpart Rommel who fought well in the North African front. Both fought very professionaly and had very impressing records before the rise of Nazi Germany.

Hezbollah, with all due respect, are professional fighters. Nazis, but well-trained and well-armed Nazis. Of course they can't stand a Judean army that wants to defeat them, but unlike Hamas, they know how to fight.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on July 17, 2010, 08:48:50 PM
I disagree. Technically, all of their major rivals (the Soviets, the French, the British and the Americans) were well-armed and well-trained (yes, the Soviets were).  The Soviets started fighting back already in 1942 when von Manstein was still in the scene and so was his counterpart Rommel who fought well in the North African front. Both fought very professionaly and had very impressing records before the rise of Nazi Germany.

Hezbollah, with all due respect, are professional fighters. Nazis, but well-trained and well-armed Nazis. Of course they can't stand a Judean army that wants to defeat them, but unlike Hamas, they know how to fight.
The British had a well-trained and professional army, but they were vastly outnumbered/equipped by the Germans. British culture just didn't breathe, dream, and crap mass murder like German (or Arab) Nazis did, so they did not devote 75% of their GDP to the military. The French had a larger standing army than the Germans, true, but they were pathetic, cowardly worms who did not have the stomach to resist after their experience in WWI. The Americans weren't even in the picture until late 1941 thanks to the America First (or as I call them, America Fister) Nazis. The Soviet Nazis were an utter mess because of their greater relative primitivity and, especially, Stalin's purges of the Soviet military. The early days of Barbarossa were a joke, and only the Russian winter saved them. If it were not for Lend-Lease and the Allied second fronts and air war, every last Russian Nazi would be the beotch of the German Nazis.

You are sadly correct about Hezbollah--Nazis or not, they learned to put the ridiculous "martyr for Allah" nonsense of Hamas/PLO behind and adopted modern infantry/artillery tactics. But they only got to be the force they are because (1) Israeli culture is not obsessed with death and killing and (2) because of Sharon and Olmert's ridiculous defense cuts and scalebacks in IDF training.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: mord on July 17, 2010, 08:53:13 PM
Look carefully at  Erich von Manstein's history   





http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0902663/bio









Date of Birth
24 November 1887, Berlin, Germany

Date of Death
10 June 1973, Irschenhausen, Bavaria, West Germany

Birth Name
Erich von Lewinsky

Height
5' 11¼" (1.81 m)

Mini Biography

Born Erich von Lewinski of Polish extraction, von Manstein was adopted by his mother's sister and her husband and took their family name. He passed out of the Cadet Corps in 1906 and saw some service in France on the Western front during World War I before going into the War Academy. From 1920 to 1937, von Manstein held various staff posts where he rose through the ranks of major, colonel and finally major-general. He first came into prominence in 1939 where he was promoted to general and commanded the 38th Infantry Corps where he masterminded the "Manstein Plan" for the invasion of France the next year. The German invasion of the USSR in 1941 gave von Manstein what he most craved: the command of the 56th Panzer Corps from June 22 to September 13 until he was given command of the 11th Army Corp for the long campaign in the Crimea. Von Manstein launched the siege and capture of Sevastopol (June 7-July 3, 1942) where he was promoted to field marshal. His first job as field marshal was the command of Army Group Don in a relief drive to Stalingrad in December 12-23, 1942 which failed. From February 20-March 18,1943, von Manstein's hour and the highlight of his military career had come when he skillfully launched a counter-attack against the Soviet armies in the Third Battle of Kharkov, recapturing the city, destroying three Soviet armies, and temporarily halting the Soviet advance. But at the Battle of Kursk in July 4-17, 1943, he was defeated by superior Soviet numbers and afterwards fought a series of well-executed withdrawals, always against Hitler's orders never to give up an inch of ground. In April 1944, Hitler, having apparently grown tired of this brilliant but troublesome field marshal, relieved von Manstein of his commands and forced him into retirement for the rest of the war. Von Manstein is remembered for being one of the very few German commanders who was prepared to confront Hitler. Unlike other German officers, he was one who put his views in perspective, spoke objectively, and refused to be browbeaten. On February 24, 1950, von Manstein was tried and sentenced to 18 years in prison on two charges of war crimes on the Eastern Front, which was later commuted to 12 years. But he was released on parole on May 6, 1953. In 1959, he published his memoirs, 'Lost Victories' detailing all about his military career. Erich von Manstein from then on lived in obscure retirement in West Germany until his death in 1973 at age 85.
IMDb Mini Biography By: Matthew Patay

Spouse
Jutta Sybille von Loesch    (1920 - ?) 3 children

Trivia

Field Marshal of Germany's Army Group Don on the Eastern Front in the Soviet Union from 1942 to 1944.

As a joke, Manstein's pet dachshund, named Knirps ("Midget"), was trained to raise his paw in salute on the command "Heil Hitler!".

To his most trusted colleagues, Manstein admitted to having had Jewish antecedents.


In 1942, Manstein had a luxurious headquarters train of wagons-lits -- a "drawing room on wheels" which had belonged to the Queen of Yugoslavia.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: eb22 on July 17, 2010, 09:31:10 PM
George Washington very likely belongs on a list of the greatest military leaders in history.    The 13 Colonies overcame long odds to win Independence from Great Britain,   arguably the # 1 Superpower in world in the 18th Century.   
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Ulli on July 17, 2010, 09:56:16 PM
Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: ItalianZionist on July 17, 2010, 10:09:56 PM
The British had the largest empire the world has ever known.
2nd...Ghengis  Khan  or his sons
3rd....maybe Alexander the great
4th.....The Romans


I guess this says something about their military leaders. But Alexander the great (even though gay) you must admit was incredible to conquer from Europe to India and Persia.

It's incredible how the Romans conquered everyone around them in their hey day. I wonder why everyone was weak compared to them, unfortunate that they were evil.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on July 17, 2010, 10:25:05 PM
Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.
Was he a Nazi?
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: syyuge on July 18, 2010, 02:33:10 AM
All empires at their greatest extent
British Empire - 33.7 million km2 (1922)[2]
Mongol Empire - 33.0 million km2 (1270 or 1309)[3][4]
Russian Empire - 23.7 million km2 (1866)[3][4]
Spanish Empire - 20.0 million km2 (ca. 1740-1790)[5]
Qing Empire, China - 14.7 million km2 (1790)[3][4]
Yuan Dynasty - 14.0 million km2 (1310)[4]
Umayyad Caliphate - 13.0 million km2 (720 or 750)[6]
Second French Colonial Empire - 12.3 million km2 (1938)[5]
Abbasid Caliphate - 11.1 million km2 (750)[4]
Portuguese Empire - 10.4 million km2 (1815)[5]
American Empire - 9.8 million km2 (1899)[4]
Rashidun Caliphate - 9.0 million km2 (654)[4][7]
Empire of Brazil - 8.5 million km2 (1880)[5]
Achaemenid Empire, Persia - 8.0 million km2 (480 BC)[8]
Japanese Empire - 7.4 million km2 (1942)[5]
Han Empire, China - 6.5 million km2 (100)[9]
Roman Empire - 6.5 million km2 (117)[10]
Ming Empire, China - 6.5 million km2 (1450)[3][4]
Göktürk Khaganate - 6.0 million km2 (557)[3][9]
Golden Horde Khanate - 6.0 million km2 (1310)[3][4]
Uyghur Khaganate - 5.5 million km2 (800)[3][4]
Tang Empire, China - 5.4 million km2 (715)[3][4]
Macedonian Empire - 5.2 million km2 (323 BC)[3][11]
Ottoman Empire - 5.2 million km2 (1683, 1829 or 1850)[3][4]
Fatimid Caliphate - 5.1 million km2 (969)[3][4]
Maurya Empire, India - 5.0 million km2 (250 BC)[3]
Northern Yuan Dynasty (Oirats), Mongolia - 5.0 million km2 (1550)[4]
Xin Dynasty, China - 4.7 million km2 (10)[9]
Tufan (Tibet) Empire - 4.6 million km2 (800)[3][4]
Pala Empire, India - 4.6 million km2 (850)
Timurid Empire - 4.6 million km2 (1405)[3][4]
Mughal Empire, India - 4.6 million km2 (1690)[3][4]
First Mexican Empire - 4.4 million km2 (1822)[citation needed]
Xiongnu Empire - 4.03 million km2 (176 BC)[12]
Hunnic Empire - 4.0 million km2 (441)[9]
Hepthalite Khanate (White Huns), India - 4.0 million km2 (490)[9]
Eastern Turks Khanate - 4.0 million km2 (624)[9]
Afsharid Dynasty, Persia - 4.0 million km2 (1747)[citation needed]
Western Turks Khanate- 4.0 million km2 (630)[9]
Rouran Khaganate (Juan-juan) - 4.0 million km2 (AD 405)[3][9]
Seleucid Empire - 3.9 million km2 (301 BC)[3][11]
Great Seljuq Empire - 3.9 million km2 (1080)[3][4]
Italian Empire - 3.8 million km2 (1940)[citation needed]
Kushan Empire, India- 3.8 million km2 (200)[9]
Ilkhanate - 3.75 million km2 (1310)[3][4]
Dutch Empire - 3.7 million km2(1940)[citation needed]
Chola Dynasty, India - 3.6 million km2 (1050)[citation needed]
Khwarazmian Empire - 3.6 million km2 (1218)[4]
Nazi Germany - 3.6 million km2 (1942)[citation needed]
Sassanid Empire, Persia - 3.5 million km2 (620)[3]
Gupta Empire, India - 3.5 million km2 (400)[3]
Chagatai Khanate - 3.5 million km2 (1310 or 1350)[3][4]
Safavid Dynasty, Persia - 3.5 million km2 (1512)[citation needed]
German Empire - 3.5 million km2 (1914)[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Ulli on July 18, 2010, 03:29:46 AM
Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.
Was he a Nazi?

 :::D No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Zelhar on July 18, 2010, 03:49:50 AM
I think Arthur Wellesley (The Duke of Wellington) must be in the short list. Napoleon was a gambler, and he also was completely negligent of the logistical aspects of war. Wellesley on the other hand was a master of logistics, and he preferred defensive battles, really the mirror image of Napoleon.

In ancient times, I think Alexander was the greatest. Then Hannibal, Caesar, and Scipio.

With all due respect to the David, Joshua, or the Maccabees, their accomplishment on the field of battle just don't match anything near the great conquerors of old. I would say that Bar Kochva was one of the greatest guerrilla leaders of the ancient times.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Ulli on July 18, 2010, 04:19:41 AM
The Nazis were not great military leaders. They had a cakewalk in the early years of WWII because no other nation was fully prepared for mass murder like they were. They conquered a lot for the same reason that Hezbollah won in 2006, because their opponents did not eat, sleep, breathe, and train for genocide.

I disagree. Technically, all of their major rivals (the Soviets, the French, the British and the Americans) were well-armed and well-trained (yes, the Soviets were).  The Soviets started fighting back already in 1942 when von Manstein was still in the scene and so was his counterpart Rommel who fought well in the North African front. Both fought very professionaly and had very impressing records before the rise of Nazi Germany.

Hezbollah, with all due respect, are professional fighters. Nazis, but well-trained and well-armed Nazis. Of course they can't stand a Judean army that wants to defeat them, but unlike Hamas, they know how to fight.
The Iranian Mullahs have trained their Hizbollah allies. I have heard, that the Libanese quranimals have even Iranian regular officers in their ranks.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: mord on July 18, 2010, 06:31:02 AM
Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.
Was he a Nazi?

 :::D No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia
I don't mean to laugh Dr.Brennan Fan but he was a Prussian .He lived before Germany was Germany
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: MassuhDGoodName on July 18, 2010, 06:53:03 AM
Re:  "I don't mean to laugh Dr.Brennan Fan but he was a Prussian .He lived before Germany was Germany "

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE WAS A RUSSIAN?    :o

ARE YOU PROMOTING COMMONISM HERE ON THE FORUM?    >:(
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: mord on July 18, 2010, 06:56:20 AM
Re:  "I don't mean to laugh Dr.Brennan Fan but he was a Prussian .He lived before Germany was Germany "

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE WAS A RUSSIAN?    :o

ARE YOU PROMOTING COMMONISM HERE ON THE FORUM?    >:(
:::D :::D :::D :::D
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on July 18, 2010, 09:42:27 AM
:::D No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia
I did not literally mean a member of the NSDAP between the 1920s and 40s lol--I meant was he an anti-Semite.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: mord on July 18, 2010, 09:48:52 AM
:::D No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia
I did not literally mean a member of the NSDAP between the 1920s and 40s lol--I meant was he an anti-Semite.
They were dhimmis under Fredrick II                 




http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/germany.html   




In essence, the Jews agreed to become the property of whichever ruler granted them a protective charter. This agreement occurred on the largest scale in 1236, when Emperor Frederick II issued the Servi Camerae Nostrae (“Servants of the Treasury”), which formally made the Jews the property of the empire. Implicit in the charter agreements was the fact that the charter could be rescinded whenever the ruler of the region wished – and the regional rulers frequently did so.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on July 18, 2010, 11:24:19 PM
OK, so he was a semi-Nazi.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Ulli on July 19, 2010, 12:38:51 AM
OK, so he was a semi-Nazi.

Mord confuses Frederick of Hohenstaufen with Frederick of Hohenzollern.

Hey all of you people here don't know the old Fritz?

(http://www.deutschlanddokumente.de/Bilder/hhzFriedrichDerGrosse.jpg)

Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Rubystars on July 19, 2010, 01:12:37 AM
For goodness sake folks let countries have their national heroes without always second-guessing everything.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Zelhar on July 19, 2010, 01:34:08 AM
OK, so he was a semi-Nazi.

Mord confuses Frederick of Hohenstaufen with Frederick of Hohenzollern.

Hey all of you people here don't know the old Fritz?

(http://www.deutschlanddokumente.de/Bilder/hhzFriedrichDerGrosse.jpg)


Indeed he was a brilliant tactician, but also lucky.

As for his dealing with the Jews, he was a tolerant ruler, for his times. This is what he had apparently wrote about Jews:
Quote
We have too many Jews in the towns. They are needed on the Polish border because in these areas Hebrews alone perform trade. As soon as you get away from the frontier, the Jews become a disadvantage, they form cliques, they deal in contraband and get up to all manner of rascally tricks which are detrimental to Christian burghers and merchants. I have never persecuted anyone from this or any other sect [sic]; I think, however, it would be prudent to pay attention, so that their numbers do not increase.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: The One and Only Mo on July 19, 2010, 01:52:46 AM
Gotta go with the ones with no values (Hezbollah) and the one who used elephants (Hannibal). ELEPHANTS!
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Ulli on July 19, 2010, 02:09:32 AM
Was there a special relation between Polish people and Jews? The Jews seem to have access to Polish economy, the other people seemed to have not.

All in all it seems too, that Frederick judges the people after the grade of usefullness for him.

This contrabande thing is the only one in the list of his accusations I would see as criminal. The other things in the list are imo things that all people do inclusive me. Ha ha ha
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on July 19, 2010, 02:47:19 AM
He was jealous and resentful of Jewish skill in business, like all other Europeans. He wasn't as bad as Martin Luther or Pat Buchanan, but he doesn't sound like a righteous Gentile by any stretch.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: mord on July 19, 2010, 05:19:53 AM
He was jealous and resentful of Jewish skill in business, like all other Europeans. He wasn't as bad as Martin Luther or Pat Buchanan, but he doesn't sound like a righteous Gentile by any stretch.
He seems very good for a man of his times.In those days Jews were getting killed in Ukraine ,Russia and Eastern Europe,so yes he was a good leader for his times
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: mord on July 19, 2010, 05:33:24 AM
Yes Jews lived much better in  Germany then in England look for Fredrick Barbarossa actually he was  very Just     








http://www.jewishhistory.org.il/history.php?startyear=1180&endyear=1189       












 1180 - 1240 ISAAC BEN MOSHE OF VIENNA (Italy)

A great halachist who linked the various schools of learning with his ritual-legal code called Or Zarua (Light is Sown). Living during the forced conversions and massacres in Germany (1230-50), he decided that baptism, even if forced, prohibited a woman from marrying a Jew.


1180 - 1223 REIGN OF PHILIP AUGUSTUS (France)

Nurtured on anti-Semitism and blood libels, he became the king at age 25. Encouraged by the Hermit of Vincennes, he decided to use the Jews for his own purposes. Badly in need of money both for his own use and to acquire new estates so he could gain greater control over his barons, he first impoverished the few wealthy Jews and then cancelled all Christian debts to Jews for a percentage. This way of generating quick revenue was known as "totbrief". It was widely used.


1180 MAIMONIDES

Completed his Mishna Torah.


1180 January 9, PHILIP AUGUSTUS (France)

(The new king of France) arrested large numbers of Jews while his father, Louis VII, who tried to protect the Jews (though not always successfully) was still alive. All the Jews found in synagogues on the Sabbath were arrested. Philip agreed to free them for 15,000 silver marks.


1181 ENGLAND

King Henry II enacted the "Assize of Arms", ordering that all weapons in possession of Jews be confiscated on the grounds that Jews, who were supposedly protected by the King, would not have any reason for owning arms. The weapons were turned over to the King's forces. A direct result of this was that there was little they could do to protect themselves when riots broke out less then ten years later.


1181 EXPULSION OF JEWS (France)

From "France", after which Philip confiscated their land and cancelled the debts owed them. Since Philip did not control the whole of France, many Jews moved to other areas. In 1192, after expanding his kingdom to areas which still had Jews, he decided to allow them to return to his whole kingdom - for a fee and under strict conditions.


1181 ABBEY OF ST. EDMUNDS (England)

A dispute broke out between William the Sacristan (Sexton) of the Abbey and his associate Samson. The Jews and the local townspeople sided with William. Unfortunately, it was Samson who came to power the next year as Abbot. In 1190, after the Coronation riots, Samson demanded that the Jews should be placed under his authority rather than the Kings. When they refused, they were expelled under guard.

[b]
1182 FREDERICK BARBAROSSA (Germany)

Reissued the privileges for the Jews of Ratushon. For the first time he stated his intention of providing for the "well being" of the Jews. In return for "Imperial protection," the Jews of Germany would make contributions to the court
.
[/b]

1182 June 24, PHILIP II (France)

The 17 year old King decreed the total expulsion of Jews from all royal possessions within two months. This was due in part to debts owed to Jewish moneylenders. The debtors were exempted from all payment to the Jews but had to pay a tax of 20% of their debt to the Treasury. This only served to force those Jews who were considered an asset into other French provinces not directly under the King's control. The Synagogue in Paris was converted into the Church of St. Madeleine, while the one in Orleans was changed into the Chapel of St. Sauveur. This expulsion - with the confiscation of land and property - was a strong factor in Jews leaving agriculture as a profession in favor of moveable property and trade.


1183 MAGDEBURG (Germany)

The guild of clothing merchants was granted the privilege of cutting and selling cloth. This was the start of the stranglehold the guilds held over most of the crafts. Jews were, of course, excluded from the guilds. The guilds were exclusive organizations which were created mostly to preserve the rights and privileges of their members.


1184 RUMERAU (France)

Elchanan, the son of the Ri and a noted (if young) Tosafist, was murdered for refusing to convert. The school in Rumerau had been the center of Tosafist learning since the days of Rabbenu Jacob Tam. Many scholars fled after Elchanan's death.


1185 RABBI ISAAC BEN SAMUEL (The Elder, aka the Ri) (France)

Dampierre, France. A nephew of both Rabbenu Tam and the Rashbam and a great-grandson of Rashi. He was appointed head of the school at Rumerau after the death of Rabbenu Tam, where 60 of the most renowned scholars studied. The Ri became one of the greatest Tosafists, renowned for his commentary on the Rif. He ruled that since the penalty for emigration was confiscation of property, no Jew had the right to buy confiscated goods. If such goods were purchased, they had to be returned to their owner.


1186 AARON OF LINCOLN (born c.1123) (England)

The richest man in England died. King Henry II immediately seized his estate when he died worth over 15,000 pounds. Aaron had such vast sums owed to him that the royal officials set up a special branch of the exchequer called the "exchequer of Aaron" (Scaccarium Aaronis) to deal with it. After 16 years they only succeeded in recovering about half of the debts owed him. Some of his debtors included the King of Scotland, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Count of Brittany and many other nobles. It was the forerunner of the system of debt registries for Jewish loans (the archae), in selected cities established by Richard's administration in 1194; these registries enabled the king's men to keep their finger on the pulse of Jewish lending (and allowed easier raising of money from the Jews).


1186 SALADIN TAX (England)

A tithe for the Third Crusade. Jews were taxed 10,000 marks or 25% of their income and personal property worth, while Christian (non-Crusaders) were taxed 10% of their property alone.


1187 July 3, GUY DE LUSIGNAN (King of Jerusalem) (Eretz Israel)

Against the advice of Raymond III of Tripoli and others, he force-marched his troops through the dry, hot Galilee. He was defeated by the Moslems near the Sea of Galilee (the Kinneret) at a site known as the Horns of Hittim.


1187 October 2, SALADIN (Eretz Israel)

Recaptured Jerusalem after 88 years and granted Jews permission to re-enter it.


1188 March 29, FREDERICK BARBAROSSA (Germany)

Was convinced diplomatically and financially by Moses bar Joseph Hakohen of Mayence, to issue a decree declaring "that anyone who wounds a Jew shall have his arm cut off, he who slays a Jew shall die." This decree succeeded in preventing most of the excesses of the previous crusades in the Third Crusade that was soon to follow.


1189 September 3, RICHARD THE LIONHEARTED (England)

Was crowned at Westminster. During Richard's coronation (from which Jews and women, seen as possible sorcerers, were banned), Baldwin, the archbishop of Canterbury, convinced Richard not to accept presents from Jewish dignitaries but to turn them out of the palace. The crowds took this to mean that the king favored persecution of the Jews; a pogrom against the Jews in London took place the same day and the following day. Richard was reluctant to begin his reign by overtly protecting the Jews and therefore did not punish the rioters too severely - which encouraged more riots. The rioting soon spread to such commercial centers as Norwich, (Kings) Lynn, Stamford, Lincoln, Bury St Edmunds, and York, as well as to smaller communities throughout the land. In London, 30 Jews were killed including Rabbi Jacob of Orleans, a pupil of Rabbenu Tam.


1189 September 3, THIRD CRUSADE (England)

Began in England under the patronage of King Richard. England, which had taken no real part in the first two Crusades, decided to sponsor a crusade that was joined by France and Germany. Its goal was to recapture Jerusalem (taken in 1187). However, Frederick Barbarossa was accidentally drowned, Philip II of France gave up, and Richard succeeded only in capturing Acre and Jaffa. The Jews of England were the Crusade's chief victims.     



Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: IsraeliGovtAreKapos on July 19, 2010, 05:37:46 AM
The British had a well-trained and professional army, but they were vastly outnumbered/equipped by the Germans. British culture just didn't breathe, dream, and crap mass murder like German (or Arab) Nazis did, so they did not devote 75% of their GDP to the military.

True, the British weren't ready for war, but so were us before the Yom Kippur War, the IDF was at the level if not stronger than he Egyptian army in its equippment (not in numbers though) and highly better in training (the surprise effect was the only thing that stopped us from firing back professionaly).

The British army, when it was ready in its motivations for war (not with the Jews), fought well, in some ocassions better than the Americans, but it was still lame compared to the Germans because the Germans, sadly, always knew how to fight well.

Quote
French had a larger standing army than the Germans, true, but they were pathetic, cowardly worms who did not have the stomach to resist after their experience in WWI.

But they did resist the Germans, at least in the start, and their results were still lame as hell.


Quote
The Americans weren't even in the picture until late 1941 thanks to the America First (or as I call them, America Fister) Nazis.

I'm talking about the whole war, they did fight the Germans in Northern Africa (where they won because of lack of resources for the Germans) and in Europe (where they needed the Soviets to destroy the Germans in the east so they could keep the invasion to Germany (for example, in he Battle of the Bulge).


Quote
The Soviet Nazis were an utter mess because of their greater relative primitivity and, especially, Stalin's purges of the Soviet military.

Actually that's a myth. The Soviets were ready for war in Europe as Hitler was already fighting the war, and were just waiting to eliminate the Ice Breaker in July 12th (that's why the Soviets had most of their air forces and infantry bases in the West) but Hitler caught Stalin "red-handed". The surprise attack eliminated the Soviets' power for a while.

Quote
The early days of Barbarossa were a joke, and only the Russian winter saved them. If it were not for Lend-Lease and the Allied second fronts and air war, every last Russian Nazi would be the beotch of the German Nazis.

That's true. But the only thing that caused that was the surprise attack and the fact that Stalin refused to admit that the Soviet Union is in war with what he previously called "a friend" (or in other words, admit he was wrong).

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You are sadly correct about Hezbollah--Nazis or not, they learned to put the ridiculous "martyr for Allah" nonsense of Hamas/PLO behind and adopted modern infantry/artillery tactics. But they only got to be the force they are because (1) Israeli culture is not obsessed with death and killing and (2) because of Sharon and Olmert's ridiculous defense cuts and scalebacks in IDF training.


It's because we do not fight how we are commanded to fight from the Torah, how our ancestors fought. But we're talking abilities right now.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: דוד בן זאב אריה on July 19, 2010, 06:50:36 AM
George Washington and Ulissis S Grant
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Thaar_Revenge on July 19, 2010, 07:20:36 AM
The Germans, do not remember their names. But they's beat the crap out of the Joos today. We would use them to kill you and then we would kill them, as they deserve it. Germans are so stuuuupid, you hate them and they lick your asses.  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: Ulli on July 19, 2010, 07:42:52 AM
The Germans, do not remember their names. But they's beat the crap out of the Joos today. We would use them to kill you and then we would kill them, as they deserve it. Germans are so stuuuupid, you hate them and they lick your donkeys.  :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D

??? English doesn't seem to be your first language.
Title: Re: Best military leaders in history?
Post by: mord on July 19, 2010, 08:01:17 AM
When they kick  you qurananimals out of Germany the qurananimals won't remember if their name is Mohammad or Aisha or Moe, Larry or curly