JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mord on July 28, 2010, 09:16:21 AM
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:::D :::D :::D :::D :::D another Black HeBro
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/07/28/2740247/hoops-star-stoudemire-israel-bound-to-explore-jewish-roots
Hoops star Stoudemire Israel-bound to explore Jewish roots
July 28, 2010
NEW YORK (JTA) -- Basketball all-star Amar'e Stoudemire reportedly was on his way to Israel after learning he had Jewish roots.
"On the flight to Israel. This is going to be a great trip," Stoudemire, who recently joined the NBA's New York Knicks as a free agent, wrote on Twitter, according to Haaretz.
Stoudemire, a power forward formerly of the Phoenix Suns, was heading to Israel for a voyage of discovery after finding out he has a Jewish mother, Haaretz reported.
According to an Army Radio report, Stoudemire plans to spend time in Israel learning Hebrew.
"The holy land. Learn about it," he wrote, adding "ze ha'halom sheli" -- Hebrew for "this is my dream.
Just take a look at him he has no Jewish mother he's as black as they come
take a look at his photo in this link :::D :::D
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/amare_stoudemire/
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Maybe his mom or her mom was a convert?
There's nothing here about black hebro stuff, so I wouldn't assume that.
It COULD be she had a "reform conversion" and in that case he's not actually Jewish. I think that's the most likely thing in this scenario.
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It is not completely beyond belief that his mother could be Jewish. But I agree with KWRBT that if his mother converted there may be some question as to the validity of her conversion. We should only recognize true Orthodox conversion according to Halacha.
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Black or white I have to hand it to him for at least feeling or wanting to be Jewish. Maybe he'll be a supporter of Israel if he doesn't fall into the wrong crowd
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Black or white I have to hand it to him for at least feeling or wanting to be Jewish. Maybe he'll be a supporter of Israel if he doesn't fall into the wrong crowd
I can only kind of chuckle because he has no idea what he's getting himself into if he's really going to 'enter the Jewish world' so to speak and familiarize with our ways and our discourse, and all of our internal issues and quarreling that comes with that. He may run and never come back lol... In seriousness though I do hope he will have a positive experience in Israel in whatever format because he has influence over many people. I also hope that if he is not really Jewish that he is let down easy about that but will get the truth about it.
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Maybe his mom or her mom was a convert?
There's nothing here about black hebro stuff, so I wouldn't assume that.
It COULD be she had a "reform conversion" and in that case he's not actually Jewish. I think that's the most likely thing in this scenario.
One would think, had his mother was a true convert, he would have found out about this a little bit sooner.
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His mother is very light skinned, so one of her parents was probably Jewish.
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In the article and in the article of Haaretz is nowhere mentioned a conversion, so perhaps his mother was Jewish by birth.
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In the article and in the article of Haaretz is nowhere mentioned a conversion, so perhaps his mother was Jewish by birth.
BUT HOW CAN HE BE SO BLACK LIKE HE COMES STRAIGHT FROM THE CONGO :o
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There is a famous former basket ball player in Israel called Wille Sims who looks 100% schwartze, yet he played in the International Maccabia games and later he played in the Israeli league including Maccabee Telaviv and he also became citizen. But he is not a real Jew, he grew up as a Hebro.
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maybe his mom was a falasha
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Even if one parent is white and the other black, you can look "as black" as Stoudemire. He's not even that dark relatively speaking, mord. There are plenty of blacks who are even darker.
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meh, I try to look past the color or the lack of it if possible...If a gentile is encouraged by "his Jewish roots" to go seek it out, I only hope they hang with the right crowd that represents Jews well.
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This thread is silly. His mother could be Jewish because she may have a continous matrilineal Jewish descent, even if she is mosltly Black Gentile. It is possibly for someone to have just one Jewish great-great gandmother (matrilineal) and the rest of his ancestors be Gentile. If that's the case he would be Jewish.
Now, there are millions of white Gentiles, so a white claiming to have a Jewish mother should also prove it. What's special the problem with this this case?
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Here is a photo of his mother:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2006-04-06/news/yo-mama/
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He just signed a Huge contract with the NY Knicks...
maybe he wants to butter up to the Jewish community and join the Park East Synagogue
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It seems that he only intends to make a trip to Israel, not to stay. So it'll be quite difficult to prove if his claims are right or not. Israelis would only require a proof if he wants to stay under the Law of Return.
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He just signed a Huge contract with the NY Knicks...
maybe he wants to butter up to the Jewish community and join the Park East Synagogue
hahah
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It seems that he only intends to make a trip to Israel, not to stay. So it'll be quite difficult to prove if his claims are right or not. Israelis would only require a proof if he wants to stay under the Law of Return.
But people are going to talk to him about it. When he's in Israel, he's not going to be in a cocoon. It's not about "proof" necessarily. The subject is bound to come up.
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This thread is silly. His mother could be Jewish because she may have a continous matrilineal Jewish descent, even if she is mosltly Black Gentile. It is possibly for someone to have just one Jewish great-great gandmother (matrilineal) and the rest of his ancestors be Gentile. If that's the case he would be Jewish.
Now, there are millions of white Gentiles, so a white claiming to have a Jewish mother should also prove it. What's special the problem with this this case?
Because he's a famous NBA basketball player?
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This thread is silly. His mother could be Jewish because she may have a continous matrilineal Jewish descent, even if she is mosltly Black Gentile. It is possibly for someone to have just one Jewish great-great gandmother (matrilineal) and the rest of his ancestors be Gentile. If that's the case he would be Jewish.
Now, there are millions of white Gentiles, so a white claiming to have a Jewish mother should also prove it. What's special the problem with this this case?
Because he's a famous NBA basketball player?
Perhaps... but I gueses the thread was started here just because he is Black.
And, no. If he goes to israel as a foreigner to learn Hebrew or to know the country, I doubt people there would ask him questions. And it's not clear whether he claims to be Jewish or just to have Jewish roots. On one sentence, he says that his mother is Jewish (if he knew about Judaism and his mother were in fact Jewish, he should have said that HE is Jewish). On the other sentence he claims to have Jewish roots, which could only imply that his mother has some Jewish ancestors not necessarily by matrilineal descent. In that case he is only a Gentile wishing to visit that land of some possible Jewish ancestors. Israelies don't ask Gentile tourists about their reasons to visit the country.
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Tangential but fascinating
http://www.jewishindependent.ca/archives/May09/archives09May29-09.html
Ashkenazi Jews of Uganda
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This thread is silly. His mother could be Jewish because she may have a continous matrilineal Jewish descent, even if she is mosltly Black Gentile. It is possibly for someone to have just one Jewish great-great gandmother (matrilineal) and the rest of his ancestors be Gentile. If that's the case he would be Jewish.
Now, there are millions of white Gentiles, so a white claiming to have a Jewish mother should also prove it. What's special the problem with this this case?
Because he's a famous NBA basketball player?
Perhaps... but I gueses the thread was started here just because he is Black.
And, no. If he goes to israel as a foreigner to learn Hebrew or to know the country, I doubt people there would ask him questions.
Dude, people are gonna talk to him about it. He's a famous millionaire basketball player. He's a celebrity. There's already been an article in haaretz written about him. He claims his mother is Jewish and therefore thinks he is. It's not very complicated. If his mother is not actually Jewish, he needs to find this out somehow and stop "frontin" and if she really is Jewish, well welcome aboard fellow hebrew.
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Even if Hallachically Jewish by birth, it means nothing for the Israeli Law of Return. In order to be accepted in Israel under the Law of Return, a person must be both Hallachically Jewish (birth or conversion) AND identify himself as a Jew without practising another religion, or be a child or grand-child of a Jew/Jewess by Hallacha even if he, himself, is Gentile and keeps another religion. Interestingly, under israeli Law, a Gentile of Jewish origin can be a citizen even if he practises another religion but, if he is Jewish himself, he is not accepted in case of having rejected Judaism.
It would be interesting to know what religion, if any, had this man up till now and if he gave it up when he supposedelly discovered that he is Jewish.
But if he goes with a tourist or student visa just to know and learn, no questions are asked. The media might harrass him with questions fro being famous, but he is a human being as any other and has every right to make his trip a private issue.
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Even if Hallachically Jewish by birth, it means nothing for the Israeli Law of Return. In order to be accepted in Israel under the Law of Return, a person must be both Hallachically Jewish (birth or conversion) AND identify himself as a Jew without practising another religion, or be a child or grand-child of a Jew/Jewess by Hallacha even if he, himself, is Gentile and keeps another religion. Interestingly, under israeli Law, a Gentile of Jewish origin can be a citizen even if he practises another religion but, if he is Jewish himself, he is not accepted in case of having rejected Judaism.
It would be interesting to know what religion, if any, had this man up till now and if he gave it up when he supposedelly discovered that he is Jewish.
But if he goes with a tourist or student visa just to know and learn, no questions are asked. The media might harrass him with questions fro being famous, but he is a human being as any other and has every right to make his trip a private issue.
He's not making aliyah, he just got a 100 million dollar contract to play basketball for the Knicks. It's only a temporary visit and he's trying to find out about Jewish culture. One of his twitter messages last week said time to find out "who we R"
But why do you think no one is going to talk to him during his trip? He's not exactly a recluse. He's a very social person. part of learning about a culture is talking with people and hanging out. He's going to do plenty. It wouldn't surprise me if he actually sat in on a talk or two by a rabbi throughout his trip also. How else to learn about Jewish culture? Somewhere someone is going to ask about his Jewish roots, Jews are very curious
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Why not many questions? Simply because secular Israelies don't care very much about Hallachic rules. And Observant Orthodox Jews don't care about a Jew ( if he is one) who just discovers his Jewishness but keeps on with his non-Jewish life style, like playing basquet in a Gentile team (most likely breaking shabbat). Unless he is really Jewish and starts to return to Torah, I guess he will be treated like any other tourist. But if he intends to speak with Ravs, yes, they will try to inquire about his Jewishness and, if it happens to be true, they will encourage him to return to his people.
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Even if Hallachically Jewish by birth, it means nothing for the Israeli Law of Return. In order to be accepted in Israel under the Law of Return, a person must be both Hallachically Jewish (birth or conversion) AND identify himself as a Jew without practising another religion, or be a child or grand-child of a Jew/Jewess by Hallacha even if he, himself, is Gentile and keeps another religion. Interestingly, under israeli Law, a Gentile of Jewish origin can be a citizen even if he practises another religion but, if he is Jewish himself, he is not accepted in case of having rejected Judaism.
It would be interesting to know what religion, if any, had this man up till now and if he gave it up when he supposedelly discovered that he is Jewish.
But if he goes with a tourist or student visa just to know and learn, no questions are asked. The media might harrass him with questions fro being famous, but he is a human being as any other and has every right to make his trip a private issue.
Gentiles with a Jewish grandfather and are not part of another faith are considered Jewish according to the Law of Return.
the Bolshevik Israeli government simply adopted the Neurenberg Laws of Nazi Germany that claimed that one who has "mixed blood" is who has at least one Jewish grandparent. The main argument those who expand the Right of Aliyah use is those who were considered Jewish according to the Nazis, or persecuted because he was considered Jewish, therefore he deserves a haven in the State of the Jews. This argument fits Herzelian Zionism which consideres the Land of Israel to be a safe haven for Jews from anti-Semitism, and not the Return of the Jewish people to their homeland as our Prophets have predicted like we believe.
Many Russian Gentiles, Thais, Missionaries from Europe and the Americas and many other Gentiles who have don't belong here use this anti-Semitic law in order to fulfill the dream of the Canaanite movement and their partners in the anti-Jewish Left to create an "Israeli people" that will substitute the Jewish people.
Rabbis who assist hundreds upon thousands of Gentiles to mark "V" under the Jewishness paragraph using "mass conversions" are worse than Hitler and Paraoh together.
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Gentiles with a Jewish grandfather and are not part of another faith are considered Jewish according to the Law of Return.
Wrong. Gentiles with an Hallachically Jewish granfather or grandmother are allowed to settle in Israel and get citizenship, even if they belong to another faith, due to kinship to a Jew. BUT THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED JEWISH; THEY ARE CONSIDERED ISRAELI GENTILES.
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Gentiles with a Jewish grandfather and are not part of another faith are considered Jewish according to the Law of Return.
Wrong. Gentiles with an Hallachically Jewish granfather or grandmother are allowed to settle in Israel and get citizenship, even if they belong to another faith, due to kinship to a Jew. BUT THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED JEWISH; THEY ARE CONSIDERED ISRAELI GENTILES.
You know, the Law was "fixed" in 1970 ::)
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How was the Law changed? I read that some Messianic Jews wanted to make alyiah recently. They were rejected at first because the rule of "anotrher faith" since Messianism is a form of Christianity. But they could prove that their mother was not hallachically Jewish and so they were Gentiles. Since the rule of not having another faith only applies to Jews, they were accepted as Christian Gentiles with Jewish grandfather.
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Ron I think Raul is correct about the law of return- according to which, a gentile with one Jewish grandfather, regardless of what faith he professes, is entitled to immigrate and enjoy all the benefits as any Jewish oleh. But if a Jew who converts to a different faith loses his right of return. I suppose it also means his descendants lose this right too unless they are Jews themselves who don't belong to a foreign religion.
In practice though many so called "messianic Jews" have been freely admitted into Israel because they can prove that they are Jews by birth and they don't declare their true faith and nobody checks it.
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Israel should not allow Messianic or J4J into Israel... They will be the downfall of the Jewish people. I can't believe the comments some of them leave on Rabbis who post their videos on YouTube... I just ripped one a new orifice earlier this evening... He was talking about 'the blood of the lamb' or some other such nonsense..
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How was the Law changed? I read that some Messianic Jews wanted to make alyiah recently. They were rejected at first because the rule of "anotrher faith" since Messianism is a form of Christianity. But they could prove that their mother was not hallachically Jewish and so they were Gentiles. Since the rule of not having another faith only applies to Jews, they were accepted as Christian Gentiles with Jewish grandfather.
Exactly the 1970 revision of the laws states that a Jew who leaves Judaism loses the right of return, but this revision is also the one that allows 2dn generation descendant to a Jew to immigrate. Originally the law of return (1950) states that any Jew, without specifying who is a Jew, has the right of return. Then in 1962 the court decided that a Jew turned Catholic missionary monk (Oswald Rufeisen) lost his right of return as he converted. The 1970 revision states that for the purpose of this law "a Jew is someone whose mother is a Jewess or that converted to Judaism, and who doesn't belong to another faith".
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Israel should not allow Messianic or J4J into Israel... They will be the downfall of the Jewish people. I can't believe the comments some of them leave on Rabbis who post their videos on YouTube... I just ripped one a new orifice earlier this evening... He was talking about 'the blood of the lamb' or some other such nonsense..
Curiously, here in Argentina, a judged had ruled that it is illegal to publicly practice "Messianic Judaism" (no matter if the person is Jewish or Gentile). Even if religious freedom is granted by the Constitution here, the argument was that Messianism affects the religious freedom of others beacuse it deceives Jews and non-Jews who want to convert by presenting them a non-Jewish religion disguised as Judaism. The rule forbade Messianics to use shofar, talit and anyother Jewish symbol or religious item in their Temples.
Messianics appealed that decision but I don't know the result.
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Israel should not allow Messianic or J4J into Israel... They will be the downfall of the Jewish people. I can't believe the comments some of them leave on Rabbis who post their videos on YouTube... I just ripped one a new orifice earlier this evening... He was talking about 'the blood of the lamb' or some other such nonsense..
Curiously, here in Argentina, a judged had ruled that it is illegal to publicly practice "Messianic Judaism" (no matter if the person is Jewish or Gentile). Even if religious freedom is granted by the Constitution here, the argument was that Messianism affects the religious freedom of others beacuse it deceives Jews and non-Jews who want to convert by presenting them a non-Jewish religion disguised as Judaism. The rule forbade Messianics to use shofar, talit and anyother Jewish symbol or religious item in their Temples.
Messianics appealed that decision but I don't know the result.
Excellent... Those who deceive Jews in this fashion are certainly placing stumbling blocks before the blind... I hope that the law was upheld.
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Here is a photo of his mother:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2006-04-06/news/yo-mama/
Convert my ass
LOL
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Update:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ai4I2h485s_83wbqwwgvAhK8vLYF?slug=ap-israel-stoudemire
"“She studied the scriptures and history and she believes she is a Hebrew,” he told The Associated Press on Friday in Jerusalem. “I grew up in a very spiritual home. It’s not about religion, it’s about spirituality for me.”"
Someone needs to let Amare know that "believing you're a Hebrew" does not make a person Jewish. Also inform the Israeli press, especially Haaretz newspaper.