JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mizrahi 4 LIFE on June 26, 2011, 01:17:55 PM
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I'm not putting down this forum in anyway. I would just like to know what does JTF want to do?
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I'm not putting down this forum in anyway. I would just like to know what does JTF want to do?
What do you think it is?
1st Jewish Rule : Always answer a question with another question!
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What do you think it is?
1st Jewish Rule : Always answer a question with another question!
I'm not sure to be honest. it looks like a bunch of people posting various different news and articles from other sites. mostly the same type of information.
what i want this to be? in the days of JDL with Rabbi Kahane ZTL as its leader. posting information about Obama and Israel is not going to attract people. IMPACT is. I thought JTF was a new version of JDL but only now with better resources.
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I'm not sure to be honest. it looks like a bunch of people posting various different news and articles from other sites. mostly the same type of information.
what i want this to be? in the days of JDL with Rabbi Kahane ZTL as its leader. posting information about Obama and Israel is not going to attract people. IMPACT is. I thought JTF was a new version of JDL but only now with better resources.
Well I will not speak 'For JTF' but I will explain my opinion.
I believe that Chaim is leading a group which has the goal of affecting public opinion amongst Jews and Gentiles that the political system in Israel needs to change. I believe that there is this hope that soon Chaim may be able to run for office in Israel, of course after repealing those laws which have been passed which prohibit this at this time. The goal is to establish a Kahanist or Kach like party which will strongly defend Israel.
How this will be accomplished I don't know except for the hope that through altering public opinion, throuhh Youtube videos and through media coverage, that an evolution to right-wing Jewish thought in Israel will occur. It is also hoped that there will be a movement in the direction of religious zionism. We support the settlers in Judea and Samaria because that is a front in the battle which religious zionists are fighting. We believe the entire land is Jewish land and should not be sacrificed in the name of so-called peace.
JTFs mission, In my opinion, is to affect American politics in a way which would be advantageous to Israel. Which is one reason Chaim has said that Israel should not be reliant on support from America. This is one aspect of JTF policy which I agree to an extent, but I also believe that America should in its own best interest, be supportive of Israel.
But this is just the tip of my explanation of what I think JTF is.
I only have some suggestions which I will discuss with the appropriate parties concerning how we can accomplish some of these goals.
PS: I don't believe at this time JTF intends to be a replacement for the original JDL.
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Well I will not speak 'For JTF' but I will explain my opinion.
I believe that Chaim is leading a group which has the goal of affecting public opinion amongst Jews and Gentiles that the political system in Israel needs to change. I believe that there is this hope that soon Chaim may be able to run for office in Israel, of course after repealing those laws which have been passed which prohibit this at this time. The goal is to establish a Kahanist or Kach like party which will strongly defend Israel.
How this will be accomplished I don't know except for the hope that through altering public opinion, throuhh Youtube videos and through media coverage, that an evolution to right-wing Jewish thought in Israel will occur. It is also hoped that there will be a movement in the direction of religious zionism. We support the settlers in Judea and Samaria because that is a front in the battle which religious zionists are fighting. We believe the entire land is Jewish land and should not be sacrificed in the name of so-called peace.
JTFs mission, In my opinion, is to affect American politics in a way which would be advantageous to Israel. Which is one reason Chaim has said that Israel should not be reliant on support from America. This is one aspect of JTF policy which I agree to an extent, but I also believe that America should in its own best interest, be supportive of Israel.
But this is just the tip of my explanation of what I think JTF is.
I only have some suggestions which I will discuss with the appropriate parties concerning how we can accomplish some of these goals.
PS: I don't believe at this time JTF intends to be a replacement for the original JDL.
with all due respect i don't see in anyway JTF has done any of these things you mentioned. Nor do i believe will do. JTF MUST make some crucial changes and a BIG mark and an IMPACT. how many years has JTF been around? what has it done?
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with all due respect i don't see in anyway JTF has done any of these things you mentioned. Nor do i believe will do. JTF MUST make some crucial changes and a BIG mark and an IMPACT. how many years has JTF been around? what has it done?
I would wait for an 'official' response from Chaim. Do not take my words as anything other than my opinion.
If you have good suggestions I am sure someone will listen.
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I would wait for an 'official' response from Chaim. Do not take my words as anything other than my opinion.
If you have good suggestions I am sure someone will listen.
I do but i doubt JTF will listen most of these people think I'm sympathizing with Muslims or that i hate Ashkenazi Jews.
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I do but i doubt JTF will listen most of these people think I'm sympathizing with Muslims or that i hate Ashkenazi Jews.
Well sometimes it seems like you don't have the appropriate anger at them for what they have done and are doing to the Jewish people. I consider islam to be one of the greatest threats to humanity at this time, greater than asteroids and climate change combined.
Ever since the introduction of mohamuds cultlike religion the Jews have been persecuted. I think it is wonderful you have had good relations with them. I too know people from all around the world and most, even the muslim and arab ones are often basically 'good people'. But I don't discuss politics with them and I certainly don't socialize with them.
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Well sometimes it seems like you don't have the appropriate anger at them for what they have done and are doing to the Jewish people. I consider islam to be one of the greatest threats to humanity at this time, greater than asteroids and climate change combined.
Ever since the introduction of mohamuds cultlike religion the Jews have been persecuted. I think it is wonderful you have had good relations with them. I too know people from all around the world and most, even the muslim and arab ones are often basically 'good people'. But I don't discuss politics with them and I certainly don't socialize with them.
Islam 1500 years old that converted other nations by the sword.
Christianity 2000 years old that converted other nations by other means.
Islam has been a threat to the Jews
Christianity also has been a threat to the Jews.
fact is we (Jews) have gone though literal HELL from both groups especially by the Christians. like i said before not all Christians as well as Muslims don't hate the Jews.
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Islam 1500 years old that converted other nations by the sword.
Christianity 2000 years old that converted other nations by other means.
Islam has been a threat to the Jews
Christianity also has been a threat to the Jews.
fact is we (Jews) have gone though literal HELL from both groups especially by the Christians. like i said before not all Christians as well as Muslims don't hate the Jews.
What sort of mixed message is being sent here?
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What sort of mixed message is being sent here?
message is clear we (Jews) can't trust anyone but our own brothers & sisters & of course Hashem. other people Muslims, Christians, and other groups of people I don't see much help from them but like i have said not all of them are bad and amongst them are truly good people who support the Jews.
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message is clear we (Jews) can't trust anyone but our own brothers & sisters & of course Hashem. other people Muslims, Christians, and other groups of people I don't see much help from them but like i have said not all of them are bad and amongst them are truly good people who support the Jews.
There are great Christians on this forum, why chase them away? If you keep talking like this they will leave.
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message is clear we (Jews) can't trust anyone but our own brothers & sisters & of course Hashem. other people Muslims, Christians, and other groups of people I don't see much help from them but like i have said not all of them are bad and amongst them are truly good people who support the Jews.
Yes JTF clearly works with non-Jews and I support that. But it is not that we rely on them and not on Hashem. Hashem has sent many agents in this world to help us.
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message is clear we (Jews) can't trust anyone but our own brothers & sisters & of course Hashem. other people Muslims, Christians, and other groups of people I don't see much help from them but like i have said not all of them are bad and amongst them are truly good people who support the Jews.
Well your brothers and sisters should include the liberal Jews which you were so quick to toss under the bus... I have a problem when people compare muslims with other groups... When Christians start bombing Israel and strapping bombs on their backs in the land of Israel I may see things differently. I don't get a good feeling when I read back through your posts... It seems like you are looking for a flash point here on the forum.
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There are great Christians on this forum, why chase them away? If you keep talking like this they will leave.
I said among the gentiles there are good and decent people if they support Israel/Jews they are good.
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Well your brothers and sisters should include the liberal Jews which you were so quick to toss under the bus... I have a problem when people compare muslims with other groups... When Christians start bombing Israel and strapping bombs on their backs in the land of Israel I may see things differently. I don't get a good feeling when I read back through your posts... It seems like you are looking for a flash point here on the forum.
for me the Inquisition, Blood Libels, Pogroms, Holocaust is worse than the bombings.
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Well your brothers and sisters should include the liberal Jews which you were so quick to toss under the bus... I have a problem when people compare muslims with other groups... When Christians start bombing Israel and strapping bombs on their backs in the land of Israel I may see things differently. I don't get a good feeling when I read back through your posts... It seems like you are looking for a flash point here on the forum.
I hear your point actually BUT, it is worth noting that the PFLP was a Christian Arab terrorist group which murdered many Jews in Israel.
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Islam 1500 years old that converted other nations by the sword.
Christianity 2000 years old that converted other nations by other means.
Islam has been a threat to the Jews
Christianity also has been a threat to the Jews.
fact is we (Jews) have gone though literal HELL from both groups especially by the Christians. like i said before not all Christians as well as Muslims don't hate the Jews.
Can you say TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/TS3fflBSfGI/AAAAAAAASvw/DGYxNzhwMkM/s1600/troll.jpg)
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Listen, Mizrahi, if you want to criticize us in a constructive way, because you support our ideas and you want us to succeed, we are very happy to hear you. But where are your innovative ideas, your detailed suggestions of improvements ? I can't see them anywhere. On the other hand, if you're here to disparage us, to defend Muslims and to antagonize our great Christian members by saying they are no better than Muslims to help us, then you are not welcome, you act just like a troll. If you can't see the difference between the frantically antisemitic Muslim leaders and Christian leaders such as Michelle Bachmann or Mike Huckabee, then you're a complete moron and a danger to the Jewish people. We're not talking about the Crusades or the Inquisition, we are concerned about the survival of Israel and the Western world in the 21st century.
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[ :dance:quote author=Mizrahi 4 LIFE link=topic=56032.msg509450#msg509450 date=1309115818]
I'm not sure to be honest. it looks like a bunch of people posting various different news and articles from other sites. mostly the same type of information.
what i want this to be? in the days of JDL with Rabbi Kahane ZTL as its leader. posting information about Obama and Israel is not going to attract people. IMPACT is. I thought JTF was a new version of JDL but only now with better resources.
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I think you know the goal of jtf. To help the heroic Jewish settlers with humanitarian needs and to also become a mass movement. We are a law abiding organization. Doing things like the jdl used to do would be counter productive. If you are looking for action join the idf and fight the front lines and hunt down terrorists.
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message is clear we (Jews) can't trust anyone but our own brothers & sisters & of course Hashem. other people Muslims, Christians, and other groups of people I don't see much help from them but like i have said not all of them are bad and amongst them are truly good people who support the Jews.
It seems like your kind of thinking is isolating the Jewish people from the rest of the world, I think if and when the Jewish people start isolating themselves from the rest of the world they will be seen as weak and weakness is not what the true Jewish people are.
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message is clear we (Jews) can't trust anyone but our own brothers & sisters & of course Hashem. other people Muslims, Christians, and other groups of people I don't see much help from them but like i have said not all of them are bad and amongst them are truly good people who support the Jews.
So you think the Jewish people that support obama and the democrats that don't care if Israel survives are good?, Do you trust them?
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It seems like your kind of thinking is isolating the Jewish people from the rest of the world, I think if and when the Jewish people start isolating themselves from the rest of the world they will be seen as weak and weakness is not what the true Jewish people are.
I dont know what you mean by this post...
Jewish people 'start' isolating themselves? The Jewish people have ALWAYS been isolated and none of the nations has been a friend to the Jew or Israel. The closest thing to a friendly nation has been America, and even then the relationship has been a rocky one.
The Torah clearly tells the Jewish people to be a nation unto itself. We will not be reckoned amongst all the nations, we are a nation alone, and a holy people to G-d himself.
It is very dangerous to tell Jews that they need to rely on outside nations. The only thing the Jewish nation needs to rely on is Hashems promise...
http://www.torah.org/learning/kolhakollel/5764/balak.html
Ba'alam's first blessing declared, "Behold! It is a nation that will dwell in solitude and not be reckoned among the nations." (Bamidbar/Numbers 23:9) Is this, indeed, a blessing? Dwelling in solitude does not sound like a good plight. Further, if this is the reversal of the curse, then the curse would have been that we dwell with other peoples and be reckoned among other nations. This does not sound like a terrible curse.
Rabbi Michel Twerski (1) expounds that the Hebrew for "reckoned" - yis'chashav - can also be translated as "calculate". Thus, the verse is concluding that the Jewish Nation "will not calculate based on other nations." The Children of Israel were blessed that they will not determine their success with a relative standard comparing them to the contemporary ideals of other nations. Rather, their accomplishments will be held to an objective standard set for them by G-d as enumerated in the Torah. G-d created in man the ability to achieve immeasurable levels of spirituality. However, this can only be pursued if his goals are rooted in the Divine. If he allows himself comfort by merely surpassing the achievements of another human being, he squanders the potential greatness that would have taken him inestimably closer to G-d. This is the curse that Ba'alam attempted to send the Jewish people: relative greatness.
Thus, solitude is a blessing. Not unlike the athlete who trains in a secluded location that facilitates a focus on his preparation and growth, so, too, the nation that actively fosters and builds its G-d consciousness desires an environment that assists that development.
http://www.njop.org/html/Balak5770-2010.html
Even in his first prophecy, Bilaam acknowledges that he is powerless to curse Israel, declaring in Numbers 23:8: “Mah eh’kov, loh ka’boh Kayl; ooh’mah ehz’ohm, loh zah’ahm Hashem,” How can I curse, if G-d has not cursed? How can I be angry, if G-d is not angry? Bilaam then discloses that he is helpless against Israel. After all, from their very origins, due to their loyalty to their forebears, the people of Israel are as firmly established as the rocks and the hills. Bilaam then famously exclaims, Numbers 23:9: “Hen ahm l’vah’dahd yish’kohn, ooh’vah’goyim loh yit’chah’shav,” Behold, a nation that dwells alone, and is not reckoned among other nations.
There are those who interpret this verse to mean that the Jewish people are never counted among the traditional number of 70 nations. There are 70 nations and the nation of Israel. According to tradition, while each of the 70 nations has its own angelic guide, the Jewish people are under the exclusive dominion of G-d. Therefore, it is inconceivable that any curse can have impact upon them.
Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki, 1040-1105, foremost commentator on the Bible) maintains that the phrase, “Israel is not reckoned among the nations,” means that, in the final judgment, Israel will not be annihilated along with the other nations. The Netziv (R' Naftali Zvi Yehudah Berlin, author of Ha’amek Davar, 1817-1893) explains that when the Jewish people do not assimilate with the nations among whom they dwell, they will dwell in peace and with honor. However, if they do mix with the nations, they will lose all respect and dignity.
The prophecy of Bilaam declaring that the Jewish people are a breed apart, has proven to be a very accurate portrayal of the Jewish people throughout its history, for better or for worse. It is as if the world is divided in two factions: the Jewish people and the non-Jewish people. One, a tiny group--the other, the overwhelming numbers of humankind.
PS: That said, those nations that want to help the Jews are welcome to do so, and they are considered Righteous Gentiles and certainly they have a place in Olam Haba {The World to Come}...
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You guys, I see from his profile that M4L was banned.
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You guys, I see from his profile that M4L was banned.
Yes. Obviously a troll
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Yes. Obviously a troll
By the way, is it possible to set up the forum so that new members cant start TOO many new threads. This is typical trolling behavior, and I know other forums have a similar protection.
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You guys, I see from his profile that M4L was banned.
Hm. He seemed a little lost, but not a threat or disruptive. I guess the banning policy went back to the old way.
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Hm. He seemed a little lost, but not a threat or disruptive. I guess the banning policy went back to the old way.
Why don't more people help out in the 'Save Israel' thread where this thatguy11 is challenging the Jewish rights to the land... I think he has been much more troublesome than M4L but he only posts in that one forum...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11869
His first few posts include:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,48023.msg508949.html#msg508949
I'm starting to think you people are a bit crazy?
I just joined these forums today and I already have seen these:
1. threats to commit genocide
2. destruction and stealing of property
3. racism and hatred at its greatest
4. claims that G-d is an estate agent
Jerusalem is illegally occupied land weather you like it or not... The fact that Israel annexed East Jerusalem to itself, is illegal as well!
You people are acting as if G-d is an estate agent or something... Religion isn't great reasoning to who land belongs to... There are numerous claims for Palestine, especially because the Jews and Hebrews were NOT the first people of Palestine!
So, lets look into this one, if you really are going to take it seriously... Who were these promises made to exactly? The first promise of Palestine to the descendants of Abraham was the Shechem(Nablus) in Genesis xxi, 7: 'Unto thy seed will I give this land.' Ch. xiii, 15, when Abraham is standing on a hill near Bethel, his words are as follows: 'all the land which thou seest to thee will I give it and to thy seed for ever'. These promises are repeated to Isaac and to Jacob. Where these promises for the Jews alone? No, actually the Bible says 'to thy seed', this includes Christians and Muslims through the seed of Ishmael. The land of Canaan was promised as "an everlasting possession", it was Ishmael and Isaac had not been born yet. Also, the hospitality of Jethro and Midianite, who was Arab, and Moses' father in law...
Now comes to the idea, was this land irrevocable? The words "everlasing" is what is now used. Although, "everlasting" is indeed not the proper meaning of the Hebrew original. The word 'olam means "a long time". According to Moses in the 28th ch. of Deuteronomy... "it shall come to pass if thou wilt not herken unto the voice of the Lord thy G-d to observe to do all his commandments curses shall come upon thee and shall overtake thee... And the lord shall scatter you among the peoples, from the one end of the earth; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which though hast not known, thou nor thy fathers, even wood and stone. And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, and there shall be no rest for the sole of thy foot; but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart and failing of eyes, and pinning of soul; and thy life shall hang in doubt before thee..." Here its clear that the promises to the patriarchs have been overturned. When the Assyrian captivity removed the population of Samaria, and the Babylonian captivity of the people of Judah, the prophets saw the divine justice on disobedient people.
Although, think of me just coming up to your house and saying, "G-d gave me the land and my ancestors may have lived here 3000 years ago! MOVE OUT!" Think of how silly you will think I am! Infact, you would probably think I'm a lunatic!
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Hm. He seemed a little lost, but not a threat or disruptive. I guess the banning policy went back to the old way.
He was not who he seemed. If you read his posts, they were initially friendly and supportive, and then all of a sudden, every post became focused on creating rifts between JTF's alliances that we worked so hard trying to build. His intentions were 100% malicious.
If he was JUST a Muslim apologist, I would not have seen him as such a threat. But he was much worse, much more dangerous. He was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
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Why don't more people help out in the 'Save Israel' thread where this thatguy11 is challenging the Jewish rights to the land... I think he has been much more troublesome than M4L but he only posts in that one forum...
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11869
His first few posts include:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,48023.msg508949.html#msg508949
Wow, that is bad, and certainly deserving of banning. However, I will always put priority on trolls who are deceitful and try to craftily get our members against eachother in order to ultimately destroy our unity. They say things that will be very offensive to one group, but may appeal to another, and they NEVER stray away from this theme.
We had a member about a year ago who was the exact same as M4L. He was VERY friendly, but ALL of his posts were designed to shun our right-wing idology. He also tried to show that the conservative christians were all a bunch of closet nazis, and I wouldnt be surprised if he was from a ultra left wing Jewish group. The enemy within is the most dangerous.
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I dont know what you mean by this post...
Jewish people 'start' isolating themselves? The Jewish people have ALWAYS been isolated and none of the nations has been a friend to the Jew or Israel. The closest thing to a friendly nation has been America, and even then the relationship has been a rocky one.
The Torah clearly tells the Jewish people to be a nation unto itself. We will not be reckoned amongst all the nations, we are a nation alone, and a holy people to G-d himself.
It is very dangerous to tell Jews that they need to rely on outside nations. The only thing the Jewish nation needs to rely on is Hashems promise...
http://www.torah.org/learning/kolhakollel/5764/balak.html
http://www.njop.org/html/Balak5770-2010.html
PS: That said, those nations that want to help the Jews are welcome to do so, and they are considered Righteous Gentiles and certainly they have a place in Olam Haba {The World to Come}...
You are jewish, do you hide yourself away and "isolate" yourself in day to day life from other people that are not Jewish?
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You are jewish, do you hide yourself away and "isolate" yourself in day to day life from other people that are not Jewish?
I do not hide away from non-Jews but I do not expect them to be supportive concerning Jewish issues. I also try to avoid socializing with non-Jews because I am very concerned with assimilation and since I am a Baal Teshuva I also have to fight with myself concerning simple mitzvahs including meat/dairy and other issues of Kashrut.
I try my hardest to only associate with fellow religious Jews but where I live there is barely a community.
My point is that the Jewish people should not look to non-Jews to save them. History has shown that Jews are betrayed by non-Jews over and over again. One of the reasons for this, I believe, is that G-d himself is the master of the Jewish people and not the nations of the world. I work hard on keeping my level of faith and trust in Hashem.
This article contains this sentiment:
http://www.jewishpath.com/holidays/gematria/bread_and_water_of_sukkos.html
Chassidim, this is after the horrific battle known as Gog and Magog. So those of us who live in 5762 should not fool ourselves. We still have this battle that Hashem will wage against the nations of the world. WHY?
Again at Sukkos time we are reminded of this battle that MUST happen before all Jews are drawn from the four corners of the world and before our Bais HaMikdosh is built and before sacrifice and Temple worship returns. Dear ones, Sukkos time is a reminder to every Jew: PLACE YOUR TRUST IN HASHEM OUR DELIVERER!!
Until that time arrives we should especially focus on the seventh day of Sukkos, Hoshana Rabba, when we march around the beemah of the shul with our lulav and esrog seven times.
Remember our sukkah is a reminder. Our sukkah is not only a reminder of dwelling in humble, modest booths in the BaMidbar {the Wilderness} but of our deliverance from Mitzriam. Sukkos looks FORWARD to a similar but greater deliverance by our G-d and our KING, the deliverance from death by the nations of the world at Gog and Magog. We were weak and fearful then {in Mitzrim} BUT we trusted in our DELIVERER! Sukkos reminds us that we are weak and fearful now and MUST return to that trust of our forefathers in Mitzriam. Yisroel should NOT succumb to pressures of great nations or of all the nations of the world. We must REMEMBER this is only a time clock ticking towards our final deliverance from our enemies.
As the time clock ticks towards Gog and Magog, take comfort in the memory that the Creator of the universe did NOT CREATE OR ENDORSE dozens of religions. In fact one of the very important memories that we are to stir up is when Kal Yisroel was delivered from Mitzriam {Egypt} our Creator defeated every god of Mitzriam. That will happen again at Gog and Magog!! Not only will the nations of the world line up against Yisroel but many of the religions of the world also line up against us. Our Creator and our Deliverer will defeat the nations and annihilate the religions. Only two belief systems will exist after Gog and Magog, Judaism and Spirituality. These are the original and only belief systems sanctioned by Hashem from the beginning and from the Torah!!
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jbeige,
I don't think we have had many conversations but many people know that I work in the High-Tech sector in Silicon Valley. As such I am constantly inter-relating to non-Jews from all over this great Earth. I have no problem relating and working with these people but I do not 'socialize' with them...
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I do not hide away from non-Jews but I do not expect them to be supportive concerning Jewish issues. I also try to avoid socializing with non-Jews because I am very concerned with assimilation and since I am a Baal Teshuva I also have to fight with myself concerning simple mitzvahs including meat/dairy and other issues of Kashrut.
I try my hardest to only associate with fellow religious Jews but where I live there is barely a community.
My point is that the Jewish people should not look to non-Jews to save them. History has shown that Jews are betrayed by non-Jews over and over again. One of the reasons for this, I believe, is that G-d himself is the master of the Jewish people and not the nations of the world. I work hard on keeping my level of faith and trust in Hashem.
This article contains this sentiment:
I think it IS important NOT to have to rely on non-Jewish people, and I think the same is true for Israel as a whole. And I think that its important for religious Jews and religious Christians to go to appropriate religious schools that teach and tolerate their belief system when they are growing up..
HOWEVER, I don't agree that Jews should only associate with other Jews. Assuming other people are not Jew-haters or Muslims, I enjoy hanging out with all types of people; gentiles, hindus, you name it. Completely isolating ourselves is really not neccessary and it reminds me of how Muslims behave.
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I think it IS important NOT to have to rely on non-Jewish people, and I think the same is true for Israel as a whole. And I think that its important for religious Jews and religious Christians to go to appropriate religious schools that teach and tolerate their belief system when they are growing up..
HOWEVER, I don't agree that Jews should only associate with other Jews. Assuming other people are not Jew-haters or Muslims, I enjoy hanging out with all types of people; gentiles, hindus, you name it. Completely isolating ourselves is really not neccessary and it reminds me of how Muslims behave.
Well the sages of the Talmud have also told Jews that they should not associate with non-Jews for the reason of preventing intermarriage. This is the primary reason a Jew is not supposed to eat or drink with a non-Jew. Of course you are entitled to your opinion and you may do as you wish... But I have decided to keep to the stricter interpretation of these laws.
http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/leff/archives/ach_kdsh.htm
Other times, rabbinic rules work indirectly by instilling attitudes that reduce temptations to sin. The Rabbis, for instance, prohibited drinking wine touched by a non-Jew or eating food cooked by a non-Jew as a fence against intermarriage. On the surface, it seems ludicrous that drinking wine in the confines of one's home that has been touched by a non-Jew, or eating food cooked by a gentile and bought in a store could in any way make it more likely that one would marry a gentile.
That response, however, fails to comprehend the purpose of the rabbinic enactment, which is not designed to protect one against intermarriage with any particular non-Jew, but rather to create an all-pervasive attitude that is in itself a protective measure. The prohibition against eating food cooked by non-Jews and from drinking wine touched by non-Jews has effectively created an attitude of an absolute chasm between Jew and non-Jew. The mere knowledge that the food cooked by a non-Jew is forbidden engenders a feeling of separateness that makes the thought of intermarriage even more remote.
PS: I also don't think we should only 'relate' to fellow Jews. It is important for Jews to have contact with non-Jews but I think this interaction should be kept to a minimum for the reason the sages have outlined.
Also in my own personal situation since I strive to keep the mitzvot that when I am involved with non-Jews they invariably lead me to violate mitzvot...
PPS: I believe Rabbi Kahane addressed this issue in his writing "Why Be Jewish?"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw8rPega_6Y
http://rabbikahane.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/what-makes-bernie-run/
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I think we are now way off topic... Maybe we should discuss this topic "Whether Jews should remain separate" in the Torah section rather than in the General forum..
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He was not who he seemed. If you read his posts, they were initially friendly and supportive, and then all of a sudden, every post became focused on creating rifts between JTF's alliances that we worked so hard trying to build. His intentions were 100% malicious.
If he was JUST a Muslim apologist, I would not have seen him as such a threat. But he was much worse, much more dangerous. He was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
I don't see him convincing anyone with his arguments. At this point, anyone making conversation here is a good thing, I think the forum activity has been hit hard because of all the attacks on the site preventing people from accessing the forum and causing people to be less active. I certainly feel like I have been less active.
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I don't see him convincing anyone with his arguments. At this point, anyone making conversation here is a good thing, I think the forum activity has been hit hard because of all the attacks on the site preventing people from accessing the forum and causing people to be less active. I certainly feel like I have been less active.
I agree on people making conversation and again, I have no problem with anti-JTFers coming in here and arguing with us, since it allows us to retort them.
But there are RARE cases, only about 3 that I can remember, where the skilfull trolls were good enough at what they did to cause long-time members to feel unwelcome, especially if these trolls post far more than the any other members and are strategically able to get on other member's good sides. Chaim knows how dangerous this can be to the movement which is why he has done the right thing in each of these situations before it got out of hand.
But again, they are VERY rare, and for every one of these skillful wolf-in-sheep's clothing trolls, there are 10 of the run-of-the-mill trolls who are easy to spot, and are nothing more than a nuisance, and are sometimes entertaining.
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You know, we should just learn to ignore all posters who make provocative or difficult-to-believe posts, you know? ::)